Tech

sorry if this is not the best forum but i couldn't really find one to fit it into...

i'm narrowed down to 2 home theater systems, one is $400 and the other is $500... the $500 is a little better (i think) but i want to know if it's $100 better (25% price increase)

Kenwood HTB-505

another look, bestbuy.com

$400
600 watts
5 speakers + sub
-2 front speakers - 100w each
---2 x 4" mid range and 1 x 1" tweeters
-1 center channel - 100w
---2 x 4" mid range and 1 x 1" tweeter
-2 surrounds - 100w each
---1 x 4" mid range and 1 x 1" tweeters
-1 8" sub - 100w

Onkyo HTS 650

another look, circuitcity.com

$500
650 watts
5 speakers + sub
-2 front speakers - 100w each
---2 x 5 1/4" mid range and 1 x 1" tweeters
-1 center channel - 100w
---2 x 4" mid range and 1 x 1" tweeter
-2 surrounds - 100w each
---1 x 4" mid range and 1 x 1" tweeters
-1 8" sub - 150w

the Onkyo has slightly larger front speakers and more power to the bass, and i bet it's a little better quality in build, sound, ect all around...

so which would you guys buy?

__________________
-Tim-

~I swear sometimes i feel like i'm married to a child.
~You better watch who you're calling a child, Lois, cause if i'm a child than you know what that makes you? a pedophile. and i'll be damned if i'm going to stand here and be lectured by a pervert.

Crooky

I asked my audiophile buddy and he directed me to a site that had this to say about the topic:

How Do I Recognize Quality In A Receiver?

One simple way is to lift it. If its heavy, chances are the unit has a well made transformer, your power source. The weight means the transformer is built of good quality materials and in order to have good, clean sound, you'll need a good transformer.

Examine the outer dials and switching devices. Are the dials smooth and effortless in their operation or do they feel "grindy" and "plasticy"? Do the buttons have a clean "click" to them or do they require alot of effort to push and feel loose. A poor connection to any switching device will prevent the unit from delivering the performance you want.

Signal to Noise Ratio (S/N) is the ratio of true sound to background noise. Once you have the Receiver hooked up to the Speakers of your choice (or any matching Speakers, for this example), turn up the volume with nothing playing on the system. You shouldn't really hear anything. If you hear any background "hiss", you're not getting true sound. The sound is being lost due to the poor construction of the unit. This rating is measured in decibles (db). The higher the rating, the more true sound and less background noise you'll get from the unit.

Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) is how badly the sound distorts at higher volume levels. When you crank up the volume, the sound should still be clear, not turn into a big mess of noise. This rating will be given in a percentage. The lower the percentage, the better.

The Efficiency rating explains why you do NOT buy an Amp or Receiver based on big watts of power.
Efficiency is the ability of the unit to transform power into clean sound. If you get a 200 watts per channel Amp with an efficiency rating of 50%, you're really getting a unit that produces 100 watts per channel, background hiss and a lot of heat. Manufacturers will sometimes boost the watts but forget the efficiency knowing full well the average consumer goes for the unit with the most power. This rating is given in a percentage. The higher this percentage, the better.


Look at the RMS rating. I won't bore you with what this stands for or the formula as to why. The point is: The rating of100 watts per channel isn't worth squat unless the Amplifier can do it over a significant amount of time. If the watts per channel is given in RMS, its telling you that, yes, the Amplifier can give you this level of performance constantly without any trouble. The watts per channel output should always be measured in RMS.


Dynamic Headroom is the ability of the Amplifier to handle sudden increases in sound levels. This is most important in a Home Theatre application as movie sound tracks are always bouncing from quiet to loud at any given time. This rating is given in decibles.


Get a Reciever without a lot of lights, bells and whistles. Keep the functions (outside of volume, treble, bass, audio / video switches) as minimal as possible. That really neat light show doesn't make your system sound any better it just makes it look pretty. And, as stated above, the added circuitry may only hamper the sound quality.


Besides, the light show will be something that will eventually break down or burn out. Now your pretty Receiver not only sounds cheap, it looks cheap. The various types of surround styles are really unecessary as well (hall, jazz, concert, and the like). Believe me, you'll use them maybe 5 times to show your friends and that's about it. If it's possible, get a Receiver without it.


Stay away from demo deals. A demo is a unit that has been on display for who knows how long. Everyone and their friend has fiddled with the unit's dials and buttons, turning it up and down and who knows what else. Even if the dealer offers a full warranty, don't get it. When something goes wrong with it (and it will) you'll have the inconvenience of bringing it in for service and being without it until it's repaired. New in the box is the best way to go. See the BE PREPARED section for more on that.


What does THX mean for quality? You've seen it at the beginning of many a movie (the ominous THX opening logo) and the little emblem on a "select few" Amps or Receivers. This is not a sound format, but a standard developed to measure sound equipment that was established by George Lucas (yes, the Star Wars guy).


Now, we all have our own standards, that is, what each of us thinks is great. When it comes to sound quality, THX is George's standard. So, really, just because the THX label is on the outside of an Amp or Reciever this does not necessarily mean it is of exceptional quality. It just means that George's team of THX folks went, "Yup, we agree that this unit sounds real good."


It should also be noted that the manufacturers have to pay royalties to THX in order to get that little logo of approval put on to their respective unit. An opinion on this: When money changes hands to get a "seal of approval" it makes me skeptical. It opens an opportunity to bypass the approval process all together. They pay their money, they get the approval sticker.


The sound quality that THX rates sounds more, well, "movie-like". Some units have their own built in process for this, not just a label. For example, Onkyo Receivers have "Cinema Re-EQ" but, unlike THX, this is an actual re-equalization device which you can activate or deactivate at the touch of a button.

__________________
"Doors aren't like assholes! They don't shut themselves!"

Crooky

Ps. Check out Crutchfield for the most detailed specs on the Kenwood. They really know their stuff there:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3guOezM...sp?i=113HTB505

__________________
"Doors aren't like assholes! They don't shut themselves!"

Lord Humungus

In short, do the Onkyo.

Onkyo, Harmon Kardens and Yahama's are the ones to pick from. They all use discrete circuitry opposed to integrated circuitry.

I just got an Onkyo and it kicks ass. Not as high a model as the ony you're looking at but its fresh. The harmon kardens are pretty dope too but you wont get as many features in the same price bracket.

Enjoy!

ps. Receivers will last you forever. Its worth it to spend a little more to get the better product.

__________________
I am still searching for the movie this quote was in...
"Make you strong, like bull", said in a russian accent
Post here if you know anything...PLEASE!

oane

This is good advice, but atleast once I opened up a system from a well known manufacturer to find a lot of dead weight. Go figure.

__________________
Make me Mad.
Make me Sad.
Make me feel Alright.

i8one2

I have a Kenwood 500watt 6speaker model number vr615 receiver. Bundle pack. I paid $299 on sale. It doesn't have some of the more advanced features, which are not messed in the least bit, has killer sound, hooks up to everything and blow away the Sony crap I had before.. It took me three tries, and returns before KENWOOD came through!

I bought it at best buys.

__________________
LEATHER, LATEX and LACE "SSC"
"Nothing That Gives Pleasure is Bad"

Quality is for those who know
what they want and are at peace with what they have.

"S/M is about emotion; the erotic tension between my impulse toward something and my resistance against it."-- Virginia Barker

silenced

I have that onkyo system, i looked up the kenwood and I saw many people had problems with the submode 3( thats when you watch a movie with 5.1 sound, the .1 = sub, and the complaint was that there was no bass at all, the submode 3 takes all the bass from the speakers and puts it to the sub) Hopefully you understood that, I had the very same choice and I went for onkyo because people have said its a better system. It also has a B channel so you can wire another room, but like that it will only do stereo. I love it to be honest, but this is my first one.

__________________
I am jack's broken heart

syquestrd270

Try checking out the Athena speakers at Best Buy. I picked up a pair of the AS-B1 bookshelf speakers after comparing them to the Yamaha, Sony and Bose sets. I'm really happy with them. Very clean sound and good bass. Athena makes an awesome powered sub too.

warrrreagl

OK, related question. If you were building a house and could have a home theatre and audio system installed, what would it be? Money IS an object, so please don't suggest the $30,000 Flibdy Boofty X-P-98-J2 (with flaps). Something within reason, but mega-cool and ass-kicking.

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

mtsgsd

Ok, to $30,000 is too high. What is an acceptable price? Research son, always research. Cambridge Audio at www.hifi.com has some very highly regarded speakers. Would you believe that Bose isn't actually considered to be all that great by the hifi enthusiasts? And it costs more than others. Add to that the fact that about $200 of the retail price is actually a sales bonus for the store or salesman.

One thing to keep in mind, is that it all boils down to what sounds good to you. It's a very subjective experience. I used to really be into the hi-fi equipment before I finally realized that I can't really tell the difference in sound between a $300 receiver and a $1000 receiver. Add to that the fact that if you don't have a room devoted to and built for the purpose, you'll have lots of sound issues (to a purist's view) that could spoil the andvantage of a top-shelf system.

warrrreagl

But this IS research. I ask a question, and mtsgsd supplies the answers!

But seriously, folks...

I've wanted a Bose direct-reflective system installed in my house ever since 1981 when I saw one on "This Old House" for the first time. However, I'm anxious to hear about these other systems that could be better. As you know, mtsgsd, I have been known to change my mind.

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

boatguy234

00

DEI37

Get Carver amps and Infinity or Polk speakers and you're in good shape. Personally, I like Infinity. I have JBL's, and they are nice. My source kind of sucks...Sony DD 100x5 receiver. It works well, and sounds good, but there is MUCH more potential to be realized with a H/K or Carver setup. Too bad my wallet won't let that happen.

__________________
Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

macmanmike6100

I have to put in my two cents here, because I love audio systems and while I'm not an audio aficionado, I know what I like and I can rate speaker quality better than my friends...

First of all, for that kind of money I highly suggest going with something from Harman International. They sell under names such as JBL, Harman-Kardon, Infinity, and a bunch more. They probably made the speakers in your car, with $1 billion in OEM automobile speaker systems last year.

In any case, try this out for size: <a href="http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.asp?ProdId=SCS135SI&SerId=SCS&sCatId=HCS">http://www.jbl.com/home/products/pro...SCS&sCatId=HCS</a>

The SCS series is affordable but delivers some kick-ass sound. It definitely beat my cousin's Bose system (my rich Cali friend had an older SCS, so the new ones must be even better). For $450, I really think that you'll do better than an Onyko.

Anyway, no, I do not work for Harman at all. I'm an engineer at USC and have been introduced to Harman by many faculty - you can even say that I'm an ex-Bose-patriot!

Hope that this helps...be sure to let us know!

macmanmike6100

in response to mtsgsd...

You're right, the "perfect" room is hard to find and you'll have to build it to actually get it. To erase a good deal of "room noise," you can put four subwoofers (tied to the same bass channel) in each of the four corners of the room (assuming you have a square/rectangular-ish room). This way, the effects of the room are essentially canceled out.

shadrock

Of the two you listed, the Onkyo is the way to go. You don't see onkyo advertised everywhere because they don't have to. They are just better. You pay for what you get. You'll be a lot happier with the onkyo and it will last longer as an investment. Get the Kenwood and you'll get the upgrade itch a lot sooner.

platypus

I went with Onkyo for my surround sound system and have been very happy with it. No problems, sounds great, and goes to 11.

__________________
Out the 10Base-T, through the router, down the T1, over the leased line, off the bridge, past the firewall...nothing but Net.