Stompy

I know a lot of people have jobs where they need tips and I REALLY don't wanna come off sounding like an asshole, but what's up with this?

I was talking with my girlfriend about this today and was telling her how the whole concept of tipping is just fucked up. I'm just wondering why the employer isn't paying the employee enough.

Waitresses are a good example. Why are they only making $2-3 an hour? Where does the employer get off thinking "we'll have the customer foot the other half of their paycheck"? It's also odd how a tip is *expected* from the customer. I sit down, the waitress takes our order, 15 minutes later the food arrives, it gets eaten, halfway through the meal she checks to see "how things are", and finally, she brings the bill. I don't mean to sound like a dick, but there really isn't anything special going on there. Why should I give a tip for that? Isn't that her job?

Other instances that make no sense: coffee shops and the tip jar and car Washes and the tip box. First off, this coffee I'm ordering is overpriced as it is at $3.75, and you expect me to pay you to fill a cup and put a few flavors in it? Likewise w/ the car wash... there's a big machine that automates it and all you do is soap up my car. Why should I give extra $$ for that? It just doesn't make any sense. Why should the customer pay people to do their job? Isn't that the employer's responsibility for running a business?

Another example ... today I was at the casino w/ my girlfriend. We ate some food and there was a person there cleaning off the tables. The person didn't take our order, didn't even talk to us ONCE... yet I noticed that people were giving tips for absolutely no reason.

It's not that I don't appreciate people doing these things, but c'mon.. it's their JOB.

That would be like getting your car repaired, paying $75 an hour for labor, then on top of that saying "Here's a lil something for yourself!" Or calling the police when you get into a car accident: "I'm glad you're doing your job. Here ya go.. it's a lil something extra for you." What about going grocery shopping and paying the cashier for scanning all your food? What about tipping the doctor because he gave you a checkup or prescribed you some medication to fix your sore throat? So on, so forth. If we tipped every person in our life that helped us, we'd be fucking broke.

Strangely enough, I do relate to Mr. Pink's situation and concepts in Reservoir Dogs. I'm not as much of an asshole about them as he is, but still, it's as if I'm the only one that thinks it's a very odd custom. Whenever I bring it up, people tend to react as if what I'm saying is really that out of place, but seriously, if you think about it, it's NOT.

Don't get me wrong, I never stiff people on tips, but I DO avoid those situations like the plague. Instead of sitting down to eat, I'll just call in the order and pick it up.. or instead of getting a pizza delivered, I'll pick it up. Seriously, I go out of my way to avoid it. If co-workers of mine suggest a restuarant to eat at for lunch, I'll suggest an alternative just to avoid having to pay a tip simply because I don't agree with it.

It's not that I'm a cheap asshole, it's just that I don't understand why people are expected to pay others a little extra for simply doing their job. If they went out of their way to make my experience a happy one to the point where I'd comment to those around me, "Damn... this person is fucking AWESOME. I really wish more employees would be like this person," then I could see where tip would be due, but other than that... what's the big deal?

Anyone else think this way... or am I just the only one?

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irseg

The only thing tipping has going for it is it makes the waiter or whoever more accountable. They are encouraged to do a good job in order to get their money. Eliminate tipping and give them a higher wage and you'll still pay the tip (in the form of higher prices to cover the extra cost), but you don't have recourse against someone who gives you bad service.

Also, I've known people who have worked as waitresses, and in many restaurants they are required to divide their tips evenly, give some of their tips to other staff members, etc. That's just stupid. If a waitress does an exceptional job and gets great tips accordingly, she shouldn't have to let other people leech off her good work.

maleficent

Tipping in restaurants, I'm so used to by now, it doesn't bother me anymore, where it's starting to really annoy the stuffing out of me is in Starbucks and other coffee shops. I'm just going to rant against Starbucks....

They are known to give their employees excellent benefits, hell, some even have stock options. I am pretty certain that they make at least minimum wage or more. The 50 cents change from my triple espresso doesn't affect me much, but it burns me that the tip jar is sitting there, and it's pretty much commonplace that I am expected to dump my change into it. Yes I get excellent service, they know what I order when I walk in the door and have it ready for me, but isn't that doing their job?

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filtherton

If you think baristas are surly now, just wait and see how they would be if tips were eliminated. From what i see here it seems like many of you probably haven't worked as a food service wage slave. Maybe you have, i dunno.

The important thing to note is that minimum wage is $5.15 an hour, hardly a liveable wage. Also, many restaurants can claim exemption from this minimum wage if they can prove that their servers make up the difference in tips. If the servers don't make up the difference, the resataurant has to. In light of this, not only do tips serve to provide a little more incentive for a waitron/barista to serve you adequately, but they also serve to allows the waitron or barista to earn a livable wage. These businesses are simply passing the buck to the customers because it allows them to pay their employees shit. Unfortunately, restaurants and coffeeshops aren't very profitable(with the exception of huge chains), so it would seem that this is the way it must be.

Also, don't complain about overpriced coffee unless you are willing to go without it. Complaining about the price of a nonessential item that you could easily make at home yourself with a little initiative is foolhardy.

CinnamonGirl

I worked as a waitress, and honestly...there's nothing worse than working your ASS off for a group of people, and having them leave you a dollar tip. I'm all about restaurants paying at least minimum wage and elimintating tips...

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Stompy

Trust me, I know I can make the same things at home with little effort, but that's exactly my point. Their job is to take the orders and to make the drinks. Why am I expected to pay them to make the drink I order? Considering the price I pay vs. what it actually costs them, I'm already doing that! Same with restaurants. I order a meal and it costs me $8, well, it costs the restaurant just a fraction of that. Why isn't a part of the price of the meal going to the waitresses? I agree, it's really crappy for a restuarant to utilize tips as a way to shaft their employees, but why don't more people recognize that?

I've been out to eat a few times in the past month (courtesy of others), and I actually pay attention to what the waitress does and to whether or not her actions are tip-worthy. Now, as mentioned above, tips are there to encourage the person to do a good job. None of the waiters/waitresses did a BAD job, but it's not like they did anything out of the ordinary. They took the orders, brought the food, then brought the check. Why does that sequence of events deserve a tip?

If a waitress is busting ass for a party of people, then yes, a tip is well deserved... but not for a simple dinner or lunch where not much else is involved aside from taking the order and bringing the food.

Seriously, there's no work in that. If it was set up so that the customers had to place the orders themselves and when the food was ready, bring it to the tables, then I'd be all for it. Again, not trying to be a dick, but it just doesn't make sense to tip for something that's supposed to be done that way to begin with.

So far the only reason appears to be because it allows the employer to pay their employees jack shit, and that DOES suck.. but why should the customer cover those costs?

Don't get me wrong, I don't sit here and complain about this day in and day out, but it's just one of those little things in life that annoy the crap out of me and that I can't seem to make sense out of.

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filtherton

I guess the simple answer is that most people generally want to get as much money as possible for the least amount of effort. Restaurants and their employees are no exceptions. I agree that we, as the average customer, shouldn't be expected to make up for the poor economic prospects of the average food establishment.

I look at tips as an "I know your job probably sucks and that it is highly likely that you're being compensated incredibly poorly for the amount of bullshit that you have to put up with" tax.

hilbert25

Tipping is for service. Thus service jobs like waiting, massagine, and haircutting all deserve tips. Why? Because what they do is a personal and subjective thing, and the reciever deserves to pay based on their own criteria. That way you guarantee a good job. Tipping cashiers, on the other hand is idiotic. There is nothing personal about taking your money and getting you a cup of coffee, it would be like tipping somebody at mcdonalds for getting you some fries. The only thing I put in those tip jars is pennies because I don't ever carry those.

WarWagon

I worked washing and detailing cars for about a year. My customers not only put money in the tip jar, but many personally tipped me, and requested by name that I be the one to do their cars. Why? Because I busted my ASS to make sure the $120k Porsche was spotless and keep them coming back. I'd do the same for a $5k beater if the owners would do the same. It didn't matter if this was in the middle of a snowstorm in the winter, or 110 degrees in the summer. I sure as hell didn't have to do what I did, but I did it anyways knowing that I'd make a $5 tip for 5 minutes work, and that they'd bring their friends back with them for the same.

Now, I worked my BALLS off for that $7 an hour plus tip, but I also did some very physically intensive labor, and would often send the lazy SOB casuals home. Why? Because they get their hands on my money, AND they make me look bad at the same time. Basically, I think that there are some jobs out there that do deserve a tip, IF the employees go out of their way to satisfy the customer. But if some fuck things I'm gonna leave them a tip for literally standing behind the counter, filling a paper cup, and doing NOTHING other than what they're getting paid to do, they are SORELY mistaken.

sadistikdreams

To Insure Promptness

It's really more like slipping the host(ess) at a resturant a 20 for being seated more promptly.

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Mehoni

I'm glad we don't do tipping in my country.

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WarWagon

A 20 for being seated promptly?! The only time a girl gets tipped a 20 is when a lap dance ensues.

Rodney

I tip, but I think that the system is bad; basically, employers have ducked out of their responsibility to pay a living wage. At least in my state, waiters always must be paid minimum wage regardless of their tips.

One of the ways that management abuses the tip system, at least in dinner houses, is by overstaffing. Since management doesn't pay much for the employees (customers do), they'll often overstaff on waiters on slow nights, just on the chance that there'll be a rush. So a lot of waiters stand around with little to do and making little money. Or they're given things to do, but not anything that generates tips.

I live in an area where no-one can survive on the minimum wage, so I do tip. But I also do not patronize restaurants that give poor service. I like my order taken promptly, I like a waiter who's happy to speak the kitchen about a special order, who anticipates many of my needs (refills on water, bread, condiments and so on) before they become an issue, and seems happy to be there while projecting a minimum of attitude. Do you know how hard that is to find?

canuckguy

i don't mind tipping, but i only tip for good service as well, still odd that we tip restaurant staff but not people like mcdonalds and tim hortons..etc. I do tip people at tim hortons whatever change i get from my coffee as they deserve it if there nice..etc. I use to tip even before with bad service, but one time at a very nice place here in my town, I got terribly bad service. place was dead slow, over staffed so no excuses that way, wait staff never refilled drinks..never offered, never asked us if we wanted water, brought our appetizer AFTER we were done our meal. i freaked out, went to the manager bitched and bitched them out. and i am the type of person who will not complain. not even if the wrong order comes to my table, i'll usually just eat it. but not now, never i always say/do something about bad service.

Charlatan

I find Americans are tipping crazy... I'm OK with tipping a waitress but really... tipping a barrista is ridiculous. I was in a donut shop the other day and they have tip jar. Screw that.

When I'm in Vegas or LA or NYC I see people peeling off dollar bills like crazy... handing them out to people just doing their jobs.

I tip if the service is good, my bags are really heavy and the bell hop has to really haul ass or the taxi driver is super fast and really quiet.

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Yakk

If the restaurant paid a higher wage to the servers, the price of the higher wage would be absorbed into the cost of the food. So, saying that (tip expectation+lower wage) vs (no tip expectation+higher wage) somehow screws the consumer is simply ridiculous. Would you prefer to have higher restaurant meal prices, or would you prefer to have an expectation of tipping?

Second, I personally tip because I would hate to do their job. And it is socially acceptable for me to help them out with money.

Third, money coming from tips is more performace based than money coming off a salary, so it should (in general) encourage better service.

Lastly, tipping is a cultural phenomina. Knowing that you are supposed to tip, tipping the right amount, doing the tip ritual correctly, are all signs that you are a fine, upstanding member of the culture in question. Objecting to tipping as more than an intellectual exercise generates the sign that you aren't a well-adjusted member of the culture, and hence you get negative emotional responses from people.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

maleficent

Tipping and begging are different things. The tip jars in Starbucks and places such as that aren't tips for performance, it's begging. Hey you have 40 cents in change, throw it in. Starbucks employees are not minimum wage employees, from all I have read they get decent benefits, begging for tips is inappropriate.

I have no problem tipping the cab driver extra when we're stuck in traffic, I have no problem tipping the waitress for serving my meal, if I were ever to go to a McDonalds, no way would I tip the counter person, the local deli that makes my sandwich the way I like it, doesn't get tips, why should Starbucks?

I bartended my way thru college, and made damn good money at it, I also worked my butt off. My salary paid me to lug a keg of beer up a rickety staircase, my salary paid me to get the customer their first drink. I remembered the people who tipped, and they maybe got a little more in their glass, they got a little more attention, they maybe even got free drinks. Tips were for service. Not for doing my job.

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rockzilla

Like others, I'll never tip a barista, unless for some reason I've ordered some ridiculous concoction that takes longer to say than it does to drink. But since I only drink coffee, that's not really an issue.
At restaurants, the tip is based on the usual criteria : Friendliness, promptness, getting my order right, checking in on me during the meal, and so on. If I have anything less than a great experience, not only will I not tip, I won't come back and will let everyone I know about it.
I have a different tipping strategy for bars though. On my first round, I'll leave the bartender a very generous tip (more than the cost of the drink). This usually ensures that he/she'll make it a priority to serve me quickly subsequent times. I'll tip normally on every drink thereafter. Although if I have to wait like a chump the next time I'm up, I'll stop tipping. What was the point of me bribing you for quick service if you're gonna ignore me?

happyraul

I'll address tipping with restaurant severs. When you go out to eat the servers are there to serve you. You pay for your food, and you are expected to pay for your service. As has already been mentioned, if you cannot expect the restaurant to pay for the service to you, you must pay for it, either by tipping, or with increased costs if they must pay their workers more. It's like if you have a maid or a butler, you pay for them to serve you, do you not?

Really it's that simple, and I'd be willing to bet that you would agree with me if you spend a year or two working someplace like Red Lobster, Stompy.

Asuka{eve}

I always give 15% of bill as tip.

Stompy

The food is most often priced a LOT higher than what it costs the restaurant. I know damn well a steak that's $15 only costs the restaurant not even a tenth of that. What it boils down to is greed by the employer... it's just that everyone's gotten so wrapped up in "tipping" that no one thinks to question it. Instead of paying the waiters/waitresses reasonable wages, the owners pocket the additional cash. Either way, the customer gets shafted. If the waiters were paid higher wages, then the employers would feel justified in raising prices on stuff that already makes them a killing when really it shouldn't have been that way to begin with.

You're telling me they can't make it up by paying their waiters/waitresses $2 more an hour?

My friends and I always go to a certain restaurant for our lunch. We usually order the same thing and already know what we want as soon as we sit down. The bill usually comes back like $25-30 and the waiter/waitress was never at the table for more than a total of 30 seconds. You expect me to pay the waiter/waitress $3.75 - $4.50 just for taking my order and brining my food? Hell, I'll do that myself. Just show me where to place the order! Giving a tip for simply participating in my experience is a bit odd, IMO.

Like I said above, if someone gives an honest to go ass-busting performance to make my experience that much better, then I could see where a tip comes into play... but honestly, it's RARE you get a server like that.

And actually, I HAVE worked in a position that got tips back when I was 14/15. I questioned it then, too. Just because I've been in that position doesn't mean I have to completely relate to those who work in jobs that get tips. Waiters and waitresses should question this as well.

[edit]
Like someone said above, they will not tip those who work at McDonald's. Why is that? They're doing the EXACT same thing a waiter/waitress does. They take your order, ring it up, and when your food is ready, they bring it and place it on your tray. The only difference is you take the tray to the table yourself and no one comes back halfway through the meal asking "can I get you anything else?". That's it.

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rockzilla

I think you're overestimating the profit margins of most restaurants.
A restaurant is doing extremely well if it can manage to take $3 of profit off of a $15 steak after buying the food, paying the staff, and covering the day to day expenses, having money for equipment/building repairs and so on.
Most restaurants fail miserably in less than a year of being open for business because it's so hard to turn a profit.
Not disagreeing with you on tipping, just making sure that you know that owning a restaurant isn't a licence to print money.

hilbert25

Putting out those tip jars has ruined the meaning of tips. Coming from New York, where it was customary to tip everybody from cabbies to doormen to waiters to altar servers at your funeral. You tipped everybody that provided a personal service, but you did not tip automata. Since moving to California, people don't tip nearly as much, but far more cashiers put out tip jars.

The difference between McDonald's and a real restaurant is that at McDonald's they are not serving you, they are following a procedure. It does not matter how much of a tip you give them, they cannot make your experience any better.

A waiter or waitress, on the other hand is serving you. Yeah, you personally. Think about the aforementioned Bartenders. They follow a procedure, much like the McDonalds workers. But they can also very much affect your experience. For one thing, unlike McDonald's wage slaves, they don't have to serve you, and if they do, it doesn't need to be prompt. Also, even at the most busy times, the best bartenders I've seen aren't simply mindlessly taking orders and giving drinks. They provide personality that that you wouldn't get if you stole your dad's vodka and sat at home drinking with your high school friends.

Waiters and Waitresses are the same way. The best ones that I've ever had have made the experience eating in a restaurant 10 times better. That alone would be a good reason to leave a tip.

thebiz

*flashback to Resivoir Dogs*

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BooRadley

But what if they make your experience miserable? Can you take money from the bill? Hell no, you have to tip them even if they are shit.

I once gave a $.05 tip to a waitress at hooters, because she ignored our table completely, and never gave us any refills on our $2 cokes. Nevermind the fact that our party spent over $65 in food... and she could have recieved a good tip ...

She was sitting at a table chatting with her friends the whole time, and came to our table 3 times. To get the order, deliver our food, and drop off the bill.

I think she ended up leaving with $3-4 dollars. Didn't hurt her any, as hooters waitresses get shitloads of cash.

hilbert25

No you don't. That's the point of a tip. You don't have to tip unless they deserve it. Now restaurants that charge an "automatic" gratuity are the exception, but they aren't worth going to.

Sure it might be a drop in a pond, but by not giving her any money, that's $10 you've just taken from her. She's probably getting the minimum pay from the restaurant per hour ($2 is it?) so if she was as bad as you say and nobody got served, then nobody should have tipped her. She gets a whole $2 for her efforts. Enough nights of pulling in $2 or $3 an hour and she'll either learn to be a good waitress or find a new profession.

This is a profession where how you work directly and immediately affects your pay, barring the occasional jackass that never tips, no matter the service. Tips are earned, and are not compulsory.

Nafter

No real tipping in my country, it can be quite daunting to know who to tip and how much when you go to a place with a lot of tipping. I feel tipping is a bad thing (i may be a bit biased heh) and the wage should be raised. I do tip occasionally, but only people who go above and beyond so to speak.

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CinnamonGirl

Actually, she just LOST money by not getting a tip, once you factor in tip shares for the bussers, hosts, and bartenders.



Without a doubt. Most restaurants have a huge turnover rate, because people seem to think they can do the bare minimum for customers and still get awesome tips. Bleah @ those people!

I always leave 15% minimum...unless the server COMPLETELY sucks, but even then I still leave something, if only a dollar.

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dirtyrascal7

i'd just like to quote this in hopes that more people read it. it's all very true.

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filtherton

The flipside of the barista generalization: I don't know if any of you actually have ever been a barista, but it isn't all standing around filling cups with drip coffee. To make good lattes, takes a certain amount of skill and also puts one at the mercy of any number of repetitive motion injuries. It also requires the barista to actually care about the quality of the beverages they make. It can be frustrating, sweaty work. Couple this with the fact that the average american replaces his/her knowledge of coffee with an over aggressive sense of self importance and you have a moderately to incredibly shitty job. You don't know bad coffee until you go to a coffeeshop employing baristas who don't care about the customers. Starbucks employees do get paid better, but far from a livable wage. On a tangent, why do people tip bartenders yet question the tipping of baristas? Don't bartenders essentially just stand there and put liquid into a cup?

macmanmike6100

Let me just say that I completely agree. Tipping should NEVER be mandatory. It should be enough that you are polite and say thank you, and that employers pay a fair amount. Tipping should be entirely optional and should indicate that you are exceptionally touched by their service. You're not an asshole by my standards, so be cool.

Prince

Weird. All this time I've been doing a good job in order to keep my job. It never even occured to me that I could charge for not just the work I do, but for feeling like doing it, as well.

I don't tip. I pay what it says on the menu, and am on my way. I generally avoid tip-crazy places. I prefer take-out. But at a place like Sonic, why should I tip? So you brought the food over to me on a pair of rollerskates? Split the atom or flash me some pussy - then we'll talk.

Otherwise, get another job.

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maleficent

You've been a barista how long?

Bartenders vs baristas.
Speaking in geralizations, at Starbucks, I'm not going to belly up to the bar and camp there for a few hours, I am going to take my coffee and go, at a bar, I'm going to be there for a little while, a tip ensures that I'll get served promptly and I won't be ignored.

Going into Starbucks, yes, they generally know my drink order by now, and that's efficient, but doesn't mean I can jump the line I still have to wait. Triple espressos aren't that difficult. If I could pack my espresso maker in my suitcase i would. I tip the bartender well enough, he/she's anticipating what I want.

I'm also a cheapskate at times, when I bartended, I was allowed to give away stuff to regulars, I gave away free drinks to the big tippers. In bars I go to I get free drinks occassionally, and the bartender gets rewarded accordingly. I do tip at Starbucks, I have never gotten anything free from the baristas, not even an extra shot.

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Stompy

I'll admit, I don't know exact what restaurants pay vs what they charge, but I'm guessing bigger chains like Outback, who charge out the ass, have hookups so they don't pay as much for a steak as you think they do. The smaller local places probably pay more, but big chains.. I highly doubt it.

Instead, I'll use the bartender as an example. A 1L bottle of$16-20 booze has about 34 1 oz shots available. At $1 or $2 a shot, the bar is making nearly double their money. Even more if you concoct a smaller drink.. say a screwdriver. $3 for a shot of vodka and some OJ? Hah! If a bartender is serving out $200+ worth of drinks an hour, then there's no reason why he shouldn't be making less than $10 an hour!

Someone asked about why should we tip a bartender but not a barista... well, that's why I don't go to bars. I don't see the point in tipping a bartender for doing his job. If he's sittin there chatting with me on a personal level and giving me some good entertainment, then yes... but if I go to a bar with a friend, order a few drinks and do nothing but talk w/ my friend.. why tip him? It takes 10 seconds to fill that glass of beer or 20 seconds to use the liquor gun to put together a drink. By all means, let me use the gun. I'll mix it myself!

Again, not being cheap... but that's kinda his JOB. He applied for that position knowing exactly what it would involve.

Of course, if I went to a bar, which I wouldn't.. I always turn down invitations to bars for that reason, I'd tip just because people would get all bent out of shape about it if I didn't. Doesn't mean I have to agree w/ it

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yankeefatboy

Excuse my ignorance, but what country doesn't have tipping as a practice. In Europe, and in Canada the tip is automatically included which, by the way, is why you may not get a tip from visitors from those parts of the world.

As for the other complaints re tipping, President Reagan made sure of the continued practice by requiring restaurants to declare 8% of sales to be taxed, hense all tipped employees must declare their tips as income or get allocated a certain amount by their employers.

Hey since there is an airport named after him (consult an air traffic controller on this bit of sarcasm) why not name a restaurant after Ronnie.

rockzilla

A big chain like Outback probably buys pre-cut, individually-packaged frozen steaks which costs a fair bit more than buying a big hunk of cow and having a trained cook cut it into 10 oz. steaks, which is what all the smaller restaurants I've worked in have done. Big chains also rely a lot more on heat-and-serve products that take a minimal amount of preparation. This is because most large chains try to insure a consistent product between locations, and they generally aren't willing to pay an extra couple of bucks an hour to attract skilled workers who could make the same things from scratch for a fraction of the price (this is why most chain restaurants suck). It's silly if you ask me, but they've got their business model, and it seems to work.
I'd rather go to a Mom & Pop kinda place where I'm treated as more than another notch in the 'Sales' column.

Cynthetiq

can I quote you on that?

tipping to me has gotten excessive.

I'll tip if I feel like it, and that's usually inclined from ordering food and asking for service. If I'm getting little to no service, I'll not tip.

What constitutes service? Asking for something extra and getting it.

edit: forgot to add that having the IRS force people to pay for tips that do not exist is unfair. I also think that the only fair way to resolve that is to make sure that tips are included in the bill and if you need to, then that person's tip should be reduced solely. Computers can track all of this easily.

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soccerchamp76

Tipping insures that your waiter/waitress will give you decent service, maybe even exemplary service.
Let's just say, hypothetically, that you go to a restaurant that accepts no tips and the servers make an even $8.00/hour. What would be the motivation for them to be great servers and go out of their way to suit you? There isn't one. Now factor in tips. Tips insure that the waiter will do anything for their table and if they do not, you do not tip them, or leave a penny or nickle tip as a message.

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Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

maleficent

A few years back, I had gone to a restaurant in the UK with some colleagues. This was a non-tipping establishment. There was an episode with me and a glass of water that to this day, they still find funny as hell. But it's an example of tipping gives me better service, as opposed to a flat rate for the employee.

I had asked for a glass of ice water, in addition to the 4 bottles of wine we had already ordered, so we weren't being cheap.

I got a glass of water that was lukewarm.
I asked for ice in it.
He takes the glass back to the kitchen and it comes back with ONE small ice cube in it.
(I'm still being polite at this point because it's amusing the hell out of me)
I asked for a bowl of ice, because I said that I wanted the water very chilled.
He takes my glass back to the kitchen again, now I'm pretty sure he's spitting in the water, and returns it to me with a handful of ice in it.
I declined to drink it...

If this was at a restaurant in the states, I could show my displeasure in the tip, I really had no other recourse except complaining to the manager, who franky didn't care cause we were Americans and probably didn't expect to see us again (we were in the UK for 8 more weeks, ate out every night, just not at his restaurant)

Tipping for service I have no objection to...

However if I were to go into a clothing store, also staffed by minimum wage employees, who do work pretty hard, and this person has assisted me, it wouldn't cross anyone's mind that this person should be tipped, so why is it just food service workers that tipping is expected?

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