Drug rant.
 

It's a very short one, though.

I'm constantly astounded by the number of people asking on these boards how to rid themselves of the residues of illegal drugs before they take a drug test. These people are trying to get jobs where they will perform some function, and seeing as I need many functions and services performed on a daily basis, I'm beginning to realize that the odds are that the person helping me is on some sort of drug.

That's not exactly a reassuring thought to me. I have smoked marijuana recreationally, but I quit long ago and I know that when I did it, it was well after I was home from work and was generally when I had the next day to recover from my pursuits. With all of the people who are trying to flub their results, what guarantee do I have that the person helping me is as responsible as I tried to be?

Is ANYONE else worried or indignant about this?

(Oh, I'm 24, so when I say that I quit long ago, it's not like I'm 40 and experimented fifteen or twenty years ago. I grew up.)

I am also annoyed by this. I don't care if some people want to take drugs, but they should also face the consequences.

Not sure what I think about this one... if people are always working to fool the tests, it only means that the tests will get more difficult to fool. Just the natural cycle of things.

I have no employees. I have no drug history. Maybe I just don't understand.

What I do see with co-workers, though, is that no matter what their private life may be, if their efforts are genuine and their work quality, they will have the respect of their superiors. Thus building trust and ruling out the need for drug testing.

Drug testing is just a way for employers to weed out the junk.
So don't be junk. Whether you do drugs or not. Just be a good employee and that's all that matters.

I don't do drugs, but I don't fully support drug tests for most jobs. There are some jobs, such as a surgeon, where being drug free is very important, because if you fuck up, someone dies. For these jobs, I wholeheartedly support drug testing. Other jobs, like your average retail job, isn't as important in the sense that it can horribly affect a human life. What does it matter if someone does "lighter" drugs such as marijuana on their own spare time? Say your cashier smokes up once a week after work. Is that going to hinder his job performance? Probably not. And if they let it, they deserve to get fired.

There's a difference between using drugs and working under the influence of those drugs. The problem with drug testing is that it does not discriminate between the two.

I think that if there is no problem in a worker's quality of work, there's no need for an employer investigate and find a "problem."

Similarly, if there is a problem in the worker's quality of work, the employer need not be concerned with whether or not drugs are involved -- they should simply demand that they get themselves together or find another job. Is there a difference between one who is incompetent because of drug use and one who is incompetent because of laziness?

Also -- most companies allow their workers to drink outside of work. But they wouldn't want their workers working drunk. As long as a worker can do their work well, I think that companies would better spend their resources elsewhere.

Aside from that, I think that drug tests are an invasion of privacy, and while it may be legal for a company to demand them, I consider it unethical.

And finally, I find drug testing odd because it is usually not comprehensive and can provide incentive for someone to shift from marijuana (usually tested for) to something harder that's not tested for. Example: When I attended a private high school, the administration announced that it would begin random drug testing for marijuana, cocaine, heroin, PCP, and methamphetamine. The result was that the 1/3 of the class that smoked marijuana moved to shrooms, ecstacy, and LSD.

I agree (as I'm finding to be the case often) with the lord here.

As you note yourself, smoking pot does not translate to irresponsibility. Responsible smokers will only smoke up after hours, when there's time to and when there's time to recover. Drug tests don't measure that, and I see nothing wrong with people trying to get information about how to flub them.

Irresponsible smokers should be found and fired, obviously, but you do that by tracking an employee's contributions and efficiency.

Whats your problem? Why are you justifying that it was ok when you smoked weed, just because you did it on your "offtime". Then you are complaining that people are trying to get around these tests because they smoke weed. Offtime, at work, its all the same. You still smoke.........

In my experience, alcohol and alcoholics are a far worse problem in most work environments than drugs. Pot, in my experience, doesn't give you nearly the hangover that alcohol does.

I'd be far more concerned about the airline pilot who got drunk out of his mind the night before than the guy who took a couple of bong hits.

But, I will agree with you on this point: someone who isn't willing to quit for a couple of weeks so that they can pass a pre-announced or pre-scheduled drug test probably has a drug problem. In that sense, a drug test is kind of an intelligence test. :)

HOLY FUCK. I had a rather long reply posted here, but because of some strange way that vBulletin handles my cookies, it was eaten because I took so long to write it that I had to log back in.

Never fucking mind.

lol its sort of funny reading this thread, considering I get stoned at work all the time. ( Don't worry I'm just a dishwasher)

Your habit of being stoned at work could very likely cause a lack of attention to detail. This could have several outcomes, the least of them being people who are disgusted by an unwashed glass or plate. The largest of them being food poisoning, salmonella, or e. coli.

I know that it's hard to think when you're stoned, but at least give it a try.

Well I don't really give a fuck about customers, and if I get fired from my job its really no big deal to me. That being said, I miss little spots on dishes when I'm not stoned, so I'm bound to miss a few. The cooks and the wait staff check the plates/cups before they are put to use. Dishwashing isn't exactly rocket science either, its not hard to get them perfectlyl clean. And one last note, the majority of the cooks there also smoke pot while at work with me lol.

That's reassuring. I just don't think I'm going to respond to your posts anymore.

I think you need to lighten up, pot really doesn't impair judgement as much as something like alcahol does. Its not like we're smoking a 3 gram blunt. We usually smoke something like a pinner (which is a really small joint if you didn't know) and get a nice little high.

The chefs are still more then capable of cooking and keeping up with the orders when they get a little high. And if the resturaunt is really busy they are responsible enough to know they can't waste time to smoke.

When I was trading equities I always took a few bong hits before work on options expiration days. It calms the nerves and enhances discipline when you have picked your exit point but the stock is volitile and youre panicing because you dont want to miss your window and lose your ass. People would constantly praise me for being cool under pressure. Little did they know...

Pot doesn't impare judgement? The fact that you smoke it at work proves that it impares judgement.

I said it doesn't impair it as much as alcahol. Plus we don't smoke ourselves silly.

Of course pot impares your judgement. Thats why it is classified as a "mind altering substance".

I've been guilty of smoking every once in awhile, but NEVER while doing something that requires judgement such as working, driving, etc.

You don't think it impares you as much as alcohol because it seems easier to function with, but that is just one of the problems with pot. I don't think people can fathom what they are really doing sometimes if they are under the influence.

Until you see yourself from the outside, you can't truely see the effects. I've never once come across a stoned person who I didn't know was stoned. This tells you something.

Thank you, The Original King and isis, for backin' me up here.

The rest of you all know that a cook who's stoned on the job would think it would be funny as hell to put extra toppings on a burger that was supposed to come up plain, and that they'd probably do it once they thought about it. How is this not having your judgment impaired? As The Original King said, how is smoking pot at your workplace, where you could legally be fired for it, not having your judgment impaired?

I really don't care if you do these things on your own time, but the point of this thread is that without drug testing the lot of you drug users can't be weeded out of the regular working population. I don't want my burger to come back with extra toppings; I don't want my glass to come back with e. coli lovingly left around the rim; I don't want my UPS package routed two states away because the idiot sorting the packages as they come off the truck is stoned; I don't want to have to explain myself three times, slowly, before my request to be put through to the electronics department is understood; I don't want some higher-up to stop producing the style of lamp that I like because it doesn't look like it would make a good bong. Do you understand?

Way to make assumptions. I'm not working at a burger king here, I work at a somewhat classy resturaunt thats has a view right next to the beach. They would be fired if they did stuff like that.

Me neither, Bloodslick. Me neither. Which is why I have a problem with drug tests that are retroactive by an entire month. Why should what a person does on her own time impact whether or not she can have a job?

If you can't tell whether or not somebody's stoned on the job, fine - design a test to help you. But I see no use for a test that will tell you whether or not someone smoked up in the past month.

Yes. Do you?

All the things you list can, and do happen without the help of drugs. So get off your high horse. You've done drugs in the past, do you think current mandatory sentencing laws, which could have put you away for five to ten years in prison, would have made you a better person?

As I said before, alcohol is a far larger problem in the workplace than marijuana.

there is alot I could say on this but I'm afraid I would come off alot harsher than I wanted to. So rather than go on a rant about how un-fair and basically stupid drug testing in general is... (the fact someone who blows coke can get it out in 2 days whereas a person who smokes a joint has to wait 30...) along with the fact MOST recreational drug users use them as RECREATION just like so many people like to have a drink after work, others prefer a bowl of nugs.

In NO WAY do I condone being under the influence of drugs while on the job but really if drugs are in a workplace it isnt too hard to find them, work on those people and dont worry about what's in everyones piss...

I have to give props to litespeed for this:
"What I do see with co-workers, though, is that no matter what their private life may be, if their efforts are genuine and their work quality, they will have the respect of their superiors. Thus building trust and ruling out the need for drug testing.

Drug testing is just a way for employers to weed out the junk.
So don't be junk. Whether you do drugs or not. Just be a good employee and that's all that matters."

that was a very good way to put it. I've smoked since I was 13, not *regularly* but often enough. I've also been in management positions and under security clearance jobs since I was 16. I dont mix drugs and work so why should I lose my job as if I did? I work hard at work, and when I relax I dont always choose to just have a drink.... anyway, I'm going to break it there before I go off onto a full page rant....

*edit*
btw, I grew up on piss tests (nothing drug related, it was just required) and have yet to EVER fail one, so if anyone has any questions I'm more than happy to share the method... Orange juice, water, and a multi-vitamin ;) if your into reading check out a book called "Urine Trouble"

I worked with stoner chefs before, and they never tried to piss off or play pranks on the customers. They did their jobs and occasionally poked fun at each other... and what kind of sense of humor is that? "oh he asked for plain so i'm gonna give him toppings" fuckin HI-LARIOUS :rolleyes:

Quote:

I don't want my burger to come back with extra toppings; I don't want my glass to come back with e. coli lovingly left around the rim; I don't want my UPS package routed two states away because the idiot sorting the packages as they come off the truck is stoned; I don't want to have to explain myself three times, slowly, before my request to be put through to the electronics department is understood; I don't want some higher-up to stop producing the style of lamp that I like because it doesn't look like it would make a good bong. Do you understand?

Your original rant was about people who circumvent drug tests, but now you're complaining about people who take drugs at work and fuck up their jobs or your orders. What kind of executive would discontinue a lamp because it wouldn't make a good bong? what's the correlation? Fuck-ups happen with or without drugs, but you make it seem like smokers do it on purpose to fuck with you. and the e. coli on your glass? c'mon.

I'm not defending people who smoke at work, and I have not and would not mix the two (in fact i don't even smoke anymore); but in my experience, my coworkers who smoked ON THE JOB did their jobs just fine, and they would burn a whole blunt on their break. They also never did anything as remotely heinous as your exxagerated examples.

i personally dont thing that marijuana is all that bad. people treat it as though its something terrible. its absolutely no worse that alcohol, except that alcohol is legal and marijuana isnt. people think its bad because other people say it is.

but i do see your point to some extent. employers are looking to hire people that do not do drugs. for whatever reason, they just dont feel comfortable with a stoner working for them. it may be just because its illegal, or they feel that people underperform with it in their system. whatever.

but this business of not being able to stop smoking just for a couple weeks is just pathetic. if you KNOW you have to take a test, then dont smoke

I can understand the complaints- but it won't get you anywhere.

Be who you are. That's what matters.

I'd feel more comfortable with a stoner working for me than an alcoholic; I'd certainly rather have someone under the influence of marijuana at work than someone who is drunk. Not all companies are like this, but I think the larger corporations see employees who use illegal drugs as a liability.

there's nothing wrong with getting fucked up as long as you are responsible.... *GASP* you can be responsible getting fucked up?? YES! if you let it take over your job and your life then that's not responsible..but if I get fucked up on a weekend..and it isn't hurting anything then big deal

just as a suggestion, anyone who still thinks weed is THE DEVIL or anything of the like... watch "Reefer Madness" as a precurser to watching the movie "Grass". Grass is narrated by Woody Harrelson and should alleviate any of your thoughts of marijuana being such an evil evil drug. And no, none of it is made up. It's a documentary on the History of Marijuana and it's laws...

I hate drug threads. That's why I usually stay clear of them. I also try to stay clear of alcohol threads because they infuriate me just as much.

This thread caught my attention, however. It's not the topic that got me interested, it's the replies from some members at TFP. Someone mentioned that it was alright to get high at work. At a restaurant...preventing people from getting LIFE threatening food poison-related illnesses. This is simply not smart. I'd take legal action against the worker if I found out that my dish wasn't clean because he was high. It's not alright to get high at work no matter where you're employed. Well, except maybe at illegal-drug testing facilities. Ha ha.

Yeah, it does impact it when they're doing something illegal in their free time. Do you want someone that commits illegal activities in their free time to work for you? No. What does that tell them about business ethics?

People have mentioned that chefs would never do anything stupid while being stoned on the job. Give me a break. Being stoned makes you a fucking idiot. If I'm ever an employer and find out that one of my employees is high or drunk on the job, their ass is gone, and possibly in legal trouble.

In conclusion, I'd also like to express my concern about a lot of people on TFP saying it's perfectly fine to get high and get drunk. No, it's not. Doing drugs is bad for you. Doing them at work is even worse. Drinking isn't against the law, but it doesn't change the fact that it makes people as stupid as drugs do. It's not "perfectly ok" to get high, and it's not perfectly fine to get drunk. It creates problems and leads to nothing good except for a momentary enjoyment. I don't care if people want to do drugs and drink, but don't act like it has all positive effects and that it's alright to do it at the job.

-Lasereth

First Im gonna say that when i mention drugs in my post I refer to alcohol as well. For some reason people seem to think of it as something seperate from all the other supposedly EVIL drugs (like coke or X) out there.

Now really, it all depends on moderation. People who over do it will cause themselves problems. If you are able to keep drug use in check and are able to function in society while being a happy person, then do the damn thing. If you cant do your job, wether its because you're drooling on yourself in front of customers in a drug induced stupor or because you're just plain incompentent you should be fired. Firing an otherwise good employee for failing a drug test is firing them based on the assumption that they are gonna do something stupid or dishonest that they havnt done yet. It takes job performance completely out of the picture, wich really doesnt make sense.

I actually used to work for a software company where drug tests had been considered. The idea was shot down. One of the biggest reasons was that they KNEW they would lose quite a great deal of key employees had they done so. Employees who did quality work and were some of the most brilliant people I've ever met. *And this a pretty reputable company but Im not going to mention the name*

So next time you get a burger with extra pickles when you asked for none, or your favorite software crashes at a critical moment dont be quick to blame the problem on drugs (and think that drug testing will solve the problem), just blame it on stupidity.

I didnt' say that chefs would never do anything stupid while being stoned, I just said the ones I've worked with never DID. I haven't condoned anything:

For some reason I am reminded of my college roommate Kevin who was not only getting his master's degree in Statistics but he was doing it with a bong in one hand.... Literally.

I was shocked and appalled (superflously speaking) because at the time my recreational drug use was isolated to Fridays and Saturdays. He would not only complete all of his homework with a bong on the table but he would also carry on long theoretical discussions with his professors.

Yes, he was an A student.

I guess my point is that marijuana doesn't affect people as harshly as some anti-drug propaganda would have us believe. If you are shocked by other people's willingness to fool a drug test then perhaps you are just easily shocked.

Drug tests exist to enforce the status quo. I truly doubt their effectiveness in combating human error because human error exists whether or not people are on drugs. In other words; people tend to blame their mistakes on something like the pot they smoked -rather than just admitting that they are stupid and would've made the mistakes anyway.

Your attitude stinks. If you can't wait until you get home to have a smoke of ANYTHING tobacco or pot and you have to do it WHILE working you have a PROBLEM. Remind me not to go to your restaurant.

I have a friend who is a CEO of a corporation. Obviously he will remain unnamed here. I know he has had a little marajuana now and then despite the laws. Once night he had 2 puffs. THAT'S all. Next morning he's got a friend of his asking him what he was doing the night before. He had called a friend of his who was a guy and who he wasn't amorously interested in to profess his undying love for the guy. AND he didn't even remember making the call. He hasn't had a puff since. He figures if he does things that he doesn't always remember when he's high on the stuff then he could really srew things up. He agrees that it's not as rough on a person as alcohol is but it alters your conciousness enough that he doesn't feel safe doing it anymore.

BTW I've worked dishpit for a decent restaurant. If you want to do your job right you need to be awake - not HIGH. I tried doing it while taking Codine that my Dr had prescribed. My boss sent my home. Do your job and face reality once in a while. You might actually find out your missing something.

Your attitude stinks. If you can't wait until you get home to have a smoke of ANYTHING tobacco or pot and you have to do it WHILE working you have a PROBLEM. Remind me not to go to your restaurant.

I have a friend who is a CEO of a corporation. Obviously he will remain unnamed here. I know he has had a little marajuana now and then despite the laws. Once night he had 2 puffs. THAT'S all. Next morning he's got a friend of his asking him what he was doing the night before. He had called a friend of his who was a guy and who he wasn't amorously interested in to profess his undying love for the guy. AND he didn't even remember making the call. He hasn't had a puff since. He figures if he does things that he doesn't always remember when he's high on the stuff then he

Smoking a little pot ain't no big deal. All you judgemental nazis lighten up (and light up, you need it)

So do you believe that a person having a drink on their own time impacts whether or not they can have a job? Maybe a second look at how silly the laws regarding marijuana is in order. Knowing someone "commits illegal activities" by smoking pot on their own time tells me absolutely nothing about their business ethics. Maybe knowing that they do so at work tells me something about their business ethics but not when it's on their own time.

Thanks for your concern. Duely noted. Eating hambugers and fries for lunch is bad for you. Should we make that illegal too? Of course alcohol and drugs CAN be bad for you and create problems. It turns out though that a lot of the people out there that CHOOSE to use them responsibly are able to clearly think for themselves and make the decision to do so. I agree with you that doing drugs at work is not right. I could, however, make an argument against your statement that drugs lead to nothing good except for a momentary enjoyment.

This is all a little off topic I guess since the thread started as a drug testing rant. That's already been replied to well enough. lordjeebus said it best:

Well if you smoke pot every day It is going to be pretty hard to get high enought to forget to wash your hands. Hell for what a resteraunt pays I might come to work high myself.

Its funny that the thread has become about people getting high at work. Drug testing does not test for impaired work.
It does not differentiate between the guy who shared a joint last weekend and the guy who will steal customer info to feed a coke habit. Its actually geared more towards catching the former guy.

if you are able to peform your job and meet the standards of the job then i dont see it as a problem. i dont think people that do drugs are different they people that have a scatter brain and forget to do certain aspects of their jobs...or people that just dont care.

what about people the lie on their resume to get jobs?

who cares if its getting done right.

In some companies I've worked for, drug consumption was up around 85% of the company. Currently, I'd give it around about 20%. These companies have been leaders in their fields. What does that say?

*leaves thread w/ mouth closed*


good luck in the argument folks

I think what an employee does on their own personal time is their own business. If I wanna light up after work or on the weekend, who is to tell me no? It doesn't hinder my job performance.

Now if I came into work all tweaked out or something then it becomes the employers business and problem.

what the hell? all of my friends cannot deny that i cook the best shit when i'm uber stoned. its a combination of understanding things in my stoned perspective of things. my greatest ideas come from me when i'm stoned. weed is brain juice, it causes more synapses to occur= more brain power (for me at least) math homework is a breeze when I'm z0n3d out of my mind, I don't know what you people are talking about being stoned and stupid, maybe it is just a stupid person toking up to begin with.

Folks, you are all missing the point. Corporate drug tests are not primarily tests for whether you have done drugs or not. They are tests to see that, if you do drugs, you have the self disipline not to do them when you have a good reason not to and if you have the intelligence to figure out a way to insure that you will be clean. Why else would they give you notice, as most places do?

It's not a drug test, it's an IQ test.

That said, I don't think it's anyone's business what I do with my time as long as it doesn't affect my work, or injure anyone or harm anyone's property.

As for washing dishes, how many of you waxing wroth over The_wall's expose of professional kitchen antics have ever washed dishes in a restaurant? Good lord, you have to be stoned. It's practically a job requirement. It's a filthy, soaking, incredibly hot, smelly, boring job that never ends until the restaurant closes. At the end of the day you feel like you've been beaten with sticks, and you get to take home minimum wage or less. This is not rocket science. This is (in this day and age) spray the dishes off, load them into a machine that's equal parts sauna and autoclave, pull the lever and load another rack. The parts you are worrying about are all taken care of by a machine.

How many of you have worked in a restaurant? Literally everyone I know who has worked in a restaurant did drugs of one sort or another during the time they were employed (not necessarily while working. Usually not, in fact). Almost all of them smoked cannabis, but quite a few of them also did amazing amounts of cocaine, and there were some who would drop acid every so often too.

These were not greasy spoons, either. We're talking 3 stars here.

And as for "well you shouldn't be trusted if you break the law," tell me about it next time you're speeding down the highway late for whatever. Everyone breaks the law (everyone interesting anyway). There are too many of them not to.

Nuff said.

I've done it. At a truck stop restaurant. I know what kind of job it is. I did it totally sober, and totally drug free. Are you trying to say you have to be high to be able to tolerate poor working conditions? Where are your guts? If you can't handle life with out drugs then get help or get out. Don't do my dishes or ANYTHING else while high.

It is a fact that drugs damage the ganglions in your brain. You will loose the ability to think as well if you do it too much.
What are some consequences of marijuana use?

"May cause frequent respiratory infections, impaired memory and learning, increased heart rate, anxiety, panic attacks, tolerance, and physical dependence.2
Use of marijuana during the first month of breast-feeding can impair infant motor development.3
Chronic smokers may have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers including daily cough and phlegm, chronic bronchitis symptoms, frequent chest colds; chronic abuse can also lead to abnormal functioning of lung tissues.4
A study of college students has shown that skills related to attention, memory, and learning are impaired among people who use marijuana heavily, even after discontinuing its use for at least 24 hours.5" http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/mar...factsheet.html

Also if you are working at a minimun wage job - if you have any kind of family to care for then you should not be wasting your money on drugs or liquor, or tobacco either - instead of buying food and taking care of your family. Talk about irresponsible.

What the heck does guts have to do with this? I'm sorry if it offends you, but that Puritan work ethic schpiel is a load of dung. If you're doing a shit job, which, in my considered opionion and experience washing dishes most certainly is, and you don't do something to keep yourself amused, your brain gets soft and you start believing you have no right to be happy. Well no less a man than Thomas Jefferson said I certainly had a right to try to be happy, and if washing dishes is a fact of life, and getting stoned does the trick, that's my decision.

Proving one's manly by suffering for pennies? That's insane. Totally mental. If that's what sobriety does to you, I want no part of it.

(Man, we have got to figure out a way to tax self righteousness. Then we could afford its effects.)

Your brain is already soft (if you have one at least) if you can't amuse yourself while doing a menial job without getting high. It isn't puritanial work ethic it's mind over matter. Everyone has something they have to do but don't like doing. They just do it because it needs to be done and if you need a crutch to get it done then you need help. Smoke on your own time and don't bring your pot addled brain to work for me and dont' leave me your penniless, parentless kids to care for.

AHEM.

Anyway,

In highschool, our class valedictorian did his graduation speech stoned.

Fitting, as that was how he went through school.

He went to MIT. Don't know what happened to him after that.

But I've also seen workers in dangerous jobs who drink and/or smoked before, during and after the day.

To me, the problem isn't weed or booze per se, it's stupid people with additions and/or a poor work ethic.

Re: Drug rant.
 

So if a frequent weed smoker has "residue" in his/her system for two weeks (accurate) after they stop smoking, you think they are actually high for those two weeks? I think you need to look into drug testing a little further, and maybe www.dea.gov isn't the best place to do your homework.

These people are also applying for government financial aid, and can't goto school because even the smallest drug conviction means no money. However, you will be relieved to know that rapests and murderers are still good to go.

Think you "realized" all that? It was spood fed to you. Read some more on
it, from all sides.

I hope you don't ski/snowboard, cause you won't anymore if you found out what most of the lifties "do" all day...

I mean jesus man, that's your life!

Of course it effects your judgement, but it doesn't always impair it. When I drive high (!) I'm much more concentrated on the driving and the drivers around me. I pay little attention to anything that does not have to do with driving the car. It's enjoyable, and it's safe (research it). I drive slower, obey more traffic laws (99.9% of them I'd say) and I've avoided some situations where the slightest distraction could have changed the outcome very much.

I'm not saying I get completely blazed and go driving, I know my limits. Do you know yours, or does somebody else know them for you?

The funny thing is, the cutoff levels for tweak is much higher, 100 times as much than weed in some cases...

God will tax pride, don't you worry...

Oh wait, god is fake. Nevermind.

PS: Sorry for n00b spamming.

Rather than start a new thread, I'll just resurrect this one. Hubby and I were discussing drug testing in the workplace the other day, as both of our jobs do random tests and require tests before employment.

I don't do drugs. I have never done an illegal drug in my life, but I don't like the company I work for dictating what I can and can't do in my free time. I read the post about a company not wanting to employ someone who participates in illegal activities; what about the people who speed on their way to work? Lied on their applications? Lie on their taxes? Drink underage? Here in Utah...what about people who have any type of sex that isn't within marriage and isn't in missionary position? They participate in illegal activities...but they aren't going to get fired for them. Should anyone who does something illegal be fired?

The only real reason I can see for this is insurance or image reasons. If you are injured on the job, you may have to take a drug test...and I would imagine that the company's insurance might not pay for the care if someone was a drug user, and the company would have to pay out of pocket for the injury.

I'm not bringing this up to discuss doing drugs ON the job, just outside the job in free time. For certain jobs (such as a doctor/policeman, etc) I can see the reasoning. At my job (retail), I just don't see it except for the reasons I stated.
Any other thoughts on this?

I don't have a problem with drug tests being given as a condition of employment for certain positions, I've taken enough of them over the years... Generally because I needed to be bonded as part of my employment.

However, when someone who is already employed by a company, and has not given the employer reason to suspect anything (meaning they come to work on time, do their job efficiently, and in a retail environment have not had till shortages), then a drug test is the same thing as an illegal search. It's not the employer's business.

My work has a post-accident drug testing policy. It seems to cover everyone's ass. The employees who break the law don't have to fear anything unless there is a problem at work, while the company can point to a failed drug test after an accident and prove that it is all the employee's fault it happened, letting them off the hook.

Alright, I read through all the responses and I'm surprised nobody commented on this. I've used marijuana for less than a year, but I've had periods where I used it heavily, and periods where I didn't use it at all. But I can tell you, no matter what you're puffing, if it's weed, it won't do this to you (Unless you take a few dozen puffs, then maybe.) I think drugs might be the scapegoat in this situation, because that's a ridiculous claim. I forgot small things, like what I need to buy at the grocery store, but I don't "high dial" people and profess my love. That's more of a very drunk thing to do. The only time I've ever not remembered doing something was when I got pretty drunk, smoked a few bowls, and then drank some more. What I remember was a lot of fun, I was with a lot of people and I was safe, and I'd do it again.

I've gone to work high, and I do more/better work than people there that are sober. The thing that matters in these cases is your work ethic, not if you're high or not. I work at McDonalds, just for some spare spending money in college this semester, and it's not the most demanding job mentally. If I know it's going to be a busy night and we're going to get some busses, then I won't smoke. But if I know it'll be a slow night, why not? Just being there is mind-numbing, so I lighten it up a bit. Like I said, I get my work done, and I pick up the slack for the lazy sober people there.

Last summer I worked for an engineering/contracting firm in my hometown. I had to be there at 7am every morning, and I smoked pretty much every night. The smoking never impaired my work, and I never smoked so late that I'd have a residual high when I woke up. The company used me, and I did more for them than I should've, but that's over and done with.

Personally, I'm not very good at doing homework and schoolwork when I'm high, but I know some people that are. That's just a personal thing.

On the original topic, drug testing in the workplace: I think anything other than a post-injury or serious complaint drug test is an invasion of privacy.

A lot of people are just generally dishonest. This is just another aspect of it. Some will try and justify it one way or the other ("what I do I on my own time is my business, dude"), but at the end of the day the people who want to "fool" tests are dishonest - and certainly the last people I'd ever want working for me, because they are likely dishonest in other aspects of their lives.

How does that make sense? What if an employer had a no-alcohol or no-tobacco policy, or just to create a point, no-dairy or no-sugar policy, and tested prior to employment for that? (hypothetically) All this is is the employer dictating what you can and cannot do when you are off the clock, completely on your own time. That seems as if the grasp is being extended a bit. Maybe in a case where housing and everything is provided, and you live on the employers campus or something, but other than that I don't think it's at all fair. Tobacco creates much more of an insurance risk, and alcohol is a much larger problem in the workplace and at home, so why is marijuana the bad guy?

I'm not saying it's ok to come to work high or drunk, because that would affect performance, but if you want to spark a joint at night and relax, why should that be looked at in such a different light as cracking open a cold beer?

The original point was to people trying to "fool" drug tests. People generally know, if they are going to be a cop, pilot, doctor, investment banker, or whatever, that their employer will be screening you for drugs - sometimes this is for statutory reasons and sometimes it is simply company policy.

The point is you know this when you begin working for them, and if you choose to accept the position knowing you will be drug tested and you plan to continue using drugs, then you are being dishonest. There's no nice way to say it, but there it is. If you don't want to be drug tested, work somewhere else, don't lie about it.

The only time I might have a bit of sympathy is when a person has been working for years at a place and then the firm starts drug testing out of nowhere for no real reason.

There is a difference between using drugs to unwind, drugs addiction, and using drugs at work. Drugs in work time are a definate no-no, i couldn't give a crap where you work.

Things like cannabis really i don't see issue with for people using out of work, as residual effects are smaller, but harder drugs, ecstacy, cocaine e.t.c, those will mess with your head for several days afterwards. I'd fire anyone on the spot i saw with those in their system after a drugs test.

Whatever way you look at it, drugs are against the law, take something legal if you want to get around a drugs test.

Total invasion of privacy. Random drug testing by the government would be illegal under the 4th and 5th amendments, and while unfortunately private corporations are not bound by the same standard, it would be nice if they would actually try to respect people's rights on occasion. No, that would probably be some sign of the apocalypse. If using drugs really affects your work performance, you should be fired for poor performance, not for failing a test.

I would pose a different question, that is, what is it that makes people have such a pretentious and condescending attitude toward, and want to interfere with the personal lives of, a group (responsible drug users) bringing no harm to others?

And you must know this from experience, right? :rolleyes:

The problem i have with random drug testing is the invasion of privacy. As long as i'm sober at work, on their time, it shouldn't matter if I go home and relax by rolling a joint, any more than if i went home and cracked open a beer.

Alcoholism is a far more dangerous addiction, and (in many cases) results in violence towards others. The use (especially recreational) of marijuana does not have nearly the same psychological effects towards violent tendencies, but is still demonized nonetheless.

Considering this sort of "gap" in memory is very common in the use of alcohol, I have to say that this one isolated incident doesn't mean anything. At all. Everyone in the world reacts to every chemical differently. Many reactions are similar to most people, but sometimes shit happens and your body reacts badly.

I have an adverse reaction to over-the-counter Ibuprofen. If i take more than one pill, it alters my mood and sends me into crazy mood swings, including irrational anger, sadness, and a few others. Ibuprofen. Many people hallucinate on common prescription pain killers, such as codeine or morphine- and some have much more severe reactions. I had one patient at the pharmacy where I work took one prescription percocet and woke up on the other side of town, having wandered in a daze for 6 straight hours while the drug messed with him. He was confronted by a police officer who thought he was high, and the guy couldn't remember his name, where he lived, how he'd gotten where he was- anything. Also, I had a coworker/friend from a previous job that had memory gaps every time she drank. If she got even a little drunk, she'd have no memory of maybe a 30 minute period somewhere in the previous evening, sometimes a little more. Every time. You can hardly take her example and say alcohol is the devil because of one person's reaction to it. Hell, some people are allergic to alcohol and go into anaphylactic shock from as little as a sip or two of beer, wine- anything with alcohol in it.

I know it's easy to demonize something you know little to nothing about, but some people in this world (not referring to anyone in specific here) need to get a clue.

So taking that one night and using it to gauge the drug as a whole is completely ridiculous. Also, it may not have been the marijuana, he might have also been having a drink to go with it. Drugs (meaning all drugs, legal or otherwise) interact with each other in different ways... often times predictably, sometimes not.

Dismissing marijuana, writing it off as a dangerous plant, is foolish. Educate yourselves- and for the love of everything decent in this world, don't insult us by posting bullshit numbers/rhetoric from a biased source like the DRUG ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. While you're at it, why don't you go consult Fox News on how President Bush is doing, or go to a pro-life web site to learn about abortions. You have to consider your source, and gather information from multiple places- places not biased by their motives.

(for the record, I don't currently smoke pot and haven't in some time.)

Yes. :|


......

Suppose you were an employer of 10 people. Monday morning you do a
drug test on all your employees and, to your complete and utter surprise, your 5 best employees all have trace amounts of cocaine in their system. You don't know this but they all took it together on Friday after work.


Would you really fire them all, on the spot?

What makes drug users so callous and non-chalant about the effects that drug trafficking (which their habit is part of) have on millions of people around the world?

If it has negative effects as you seem to imply, it's only because prohibition has forced trade into a black market.

When I first saw this I thought "holy shit, another drug testing thread". but then I saw that it was quite old.

Where I work, one particular employee was fired from a manufacturing position where he had to work with hydraulic presses. He reached into the platen area, lost a finger, got a piss test while they were trying to put his finger back on and tested dirty. He was terminated and later rehired after a rehab program. Later he failed a random and was terminated again.

Another failed a random one month. Was able to argue that he was using an over the counter flu medicine and was reinstated. The next round of randoms he won the lottery again, tested dirty and was gone.

Many an employee passed pre-employment screenings and then failed randoms. I doubt they started using after they got the job.

And lastly, every employee under the random policy was subject to testing. New hires, probationary, 20 year people, leads, supervisors, managers. One day a supervisor refused a random (voluntary resignation under the policy) and was back in the same job position a week later. Since that episode, we no longer have a random policy.

No random policy and the pre-employment screen is a joke. BTW, every employee that has lost a piece of finger, hand, foot etc. has failed the post accident test.

I used to think drug screenings worked, but now I'm doubtful. In the end there is no substitute for good pre-employemnt interviewing and on the job supervision.

Well, since you gave me a pretty crappy scenario, yes i would. I have almost as little tolerance for cocaine as i do for crack and heroin.

Edit: let me clear up my position on drugs with this little analagy.

Say someone has smoked cigarettes for X amount of years, then caught lung cancer because of it. They immediatly gave up smoking and eventually beat the cancer, but suffered lots of associated problems due to the beating their immune system took fighting the cancer.
Now, would that person be preaching the wonders of smoking, even if they did know the pleasure that it once instilled in them, or would verminantly against it?

So, therefore, heroin wouldn't have negative effects around the place if it was a state run monopoly? :hmm:

Imply? I'm pretty sure there are hundreds of thousands of people held hostage on land that would be put to better use as farmland, forced to grow coca and poppies, and made into slaves just so someone in the US, Canada or the Netherlands can get a cheap high. Nothing implied about it.

It's funny. The same people who wouldn't buy a shirt that says "made in Burma" on it for fear it was made in a sweatshop are happy to drop hundreds on coke, heroin or other drugs grown by people who live in worse conditions than many sweatshops, because they feel entitled to use drugs.

I don't blame some dumbass kid who doesn't know any better, some guy on the Rez or Hood whose life is so limited and screwed up that he would neither know nor care about such moral questions. I do think that educated people - effectively, the majority of people posting on boards like this - would know and care a bit, rather than relying on "but dude, if it was legal it'd all be cool" instead of thinking about the vast criminal activity and cycles of poverty this sustains.

First, there are ways to acquire quality cannabis that have zero impact on organized drug trade.

Two, pharmaceuticals. Prescribed Vallium, percocet, lithium, etc. I'll take being around a person under the influence of marajuana anyday to someone who is the "worst case scenario" of the professionally medicated community.

Three, I hope that employers, whose companies recieve money from the federal government via tax writeoffs or subsidies, can vouch that all those tax dollars were contributed by people who weren't under the influence of any drugs. Alcohol (bars, liquor sales, people who go to bars, drink wine, take communion, etc) or other substances. Otherwise, it would almost seem as though they were standing on the shoulders of working men and women, many of whom have consumed some manner of chemical innebriant or mood altering substance. That would seem, to me, just plain crazy go nuts hypocritical.

Interesting that this thread popped up from the dead. Our "high quality" local alternative weekly newspaper (the New Haven Advocate) just had a cover article "Drug Testing 101: How to Beat your Boss' Test", along with the sidebar "Best bong shops in Connecticut". There's the news you need to know, thanks. :rolleyes:

Mmmm, a little historical perspective.

Back in the '70s, there was no drug testing of any kind in general industry; I can't speak for jobs involving security clearances. Employers approached it as a competency issue: if you did the job competently, you were fine. If you did the job incompetently, for any reason, you were out. And that was it.

If you were failing on the job and it was known you had a drug or alcohol problem, a good employer (big corporations, anyway) would call you in, bring up the problem, and ask you to address it. If you refused, you continued to work until your job performance became unacceptable. If you agreed to address the problem, a program of treatment was suggested; usually HR would hook you up with something. I worked for an insurance company that would actually pay for 30 days of drying out and counseling, no questions asked. And usually, the problem was alcohol, or mainly alcohol.

When the "war on drugs" ramped up in the late '70s and early '80s, more and more companies started requiring drug testing -- for no good reason. It was just the fashion, spurred on by politics and propaganda. Drugs were bad. We didn't want to employ people who used them, even off the job. There was no sudden explosion of drug-related issues on the job. Then as now, most of the corporate drones I know with "drug problems" are boozers. On the other hand, I know a guy who every night sits down to television with a nice joint and has worked in IT for a huge national bank for 20 years, completely competently.

I just got a job at a university, and nobody required a blood test. But if I wanted to work as a sales clerk at the Salvation Army store, I would have to have a blood test. What is the difference here -- except some employer's idea that he or she has the freedom to evaluate an employee's _entire_ life and lifestyle, not just the part from 8 to 5. That is unacceptable.

No one owes you a job, and the drugs are illegal.

If you want to do illegal drugs, good for you, enjoy it, the world needs ditch diggers too, but that doesn't mean anyone has to hire you.

Start your own company, be '420' friendly, and see how that goes for ya if you like.

Private industry is a piss-poor law enforcer, and shouldn't try to be one beyond obeying the laws that cover their own fields of business -- not that corporations don't break plenty of laws themselves, _all the time._ And some of the top bananas use the same illegal substances as the guys in the stockroom. Believe me, been there. Seen EVPs snorting the white stuff, and more. ON the job.

Whether drugs are illegal or not is not the issue. Whether corporate testing is _appropriate_ or not in a civil society is something else. I find it all laughable. Hell, I remember when it was fairly common to have to get a physical when joining a company. I haven't had a company physical in 25 years, and nobody's asking me to submit to a TB test or a hep test to avoid endangering my fellow employees.

The law is the law until it is ridiculous and flouted. When too many people flout the law, it's time to change the law, not the people. Or risk that all laws lose potency in the eyes of the people.

Depends on the law. I'd rather change the law enforcers in most cases.

Thats why I grow my own.

You merely implied it in your post. Had you posted this in the first place, it wouldn't have been an implication. Sorry, but I just don't buy the vicarious responsibility for crime argument. If I buy a car from a guy who takes some of the money to buy a gun to kill his wife, am I responsible for that then? There's no way to say what the money will be used for, and likewise there's no way to say what money someone uses to buy drugs will be used for, and you can hardly say in every case or even most cases that it will be used for immoral purposes.

Furthermore there are e.g. plenty of "poor farmers", if not the vast majority of those in the trade, who benefit more from growing coca or opium than from growing whatever other legal crop; why is it that opium production has skyrocketed in Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban? Well, I'll guarantee you it's not because Afghan farmers as a whole are being held hostage by anyone; if anything it was with the Taliban that they were held hostage. It's not like if all drug growing stopped today that suddenly there would be no more starving people in the world and everything would be peachy. Drug production is simply the market winning, and no market so large can be sustained only by coersion of the people involved.

I don't have a problem with pre-employment drug tests, but only if, to be fair, they also test for the following drugs:

acetominophen
asprin
anti-depressants
anti-anxiety medication
caffiene
ibuprophen
nicotine
prescribed painkillers such as vicodin, percoset, ultram, etc
pseudoephedrine
wellbutrin
I'm certain there's quite a few more I've missed.

Fact is that all of these substances are potentially mind and performance altering substances. Perhaps a better way to do it is to test if someone gives you a reason to,for instance if they're acting funny or something. And if you find that it's because they've drank 5 cups of coffee and their nerves are shot... discipline them, perhaps not as severely as you would if it was because they had done a half gram of coke that morning, but still... a drug is a drug regardless of weither or not it's condoned by society.

Lets see an illegal mind altering drug vrs asprin........... yea you got apples in the oranges.

Our pre-employment screening checks for several of those. If you have a prescription, there's no problem.