Drug rant. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Bloodslick · 12-06-2003, 04:49 PM

It's a very short one, though.

I'm constantly astounded by the number of people asking on these boards how to rid themselves of the residues of illegal drugs before they take a drug test. These people are trying to get jobs where they will perform some function, and seeing as I need many functions and services performed on a daily basis, I'm beginning to realize that the odds are that the person helping me is on some sort of drug.

That's not exactly a reassuring thought to me. I have smoked marijuana recreationally, but I quit long ago and I know that when I did it, it was well after I was home from work and was generally when I had the next day to recover from my pursuits. With all of the people who are trying to flub their results, what guarantee do I have that the person helping me is as responsible as I tried to be?

Is ANYONE else worried or indignant about this?

(Oh, I'm 24, so when I say that I quit long ago, it's not like I'm 40 and experimented fifteen or twenty years ago. I grew up.)

ninety09 · 12-06-2003, 05:00 PM

I am also annoyed by this. I don't care if some people want to take drugs, but they should also face the consequences.

Litespeed · 12-06-2003, 05:42 PM

Not sure what I think about this one... if people are always working to fool the tests, it only means that the tests will get more difficult to fool. Just the natural cycle of things.

I have no employees. I have no drug history. Maybe I just don't understand.

What I do see with co-workers, though, is that no matter what their private life may be, if their efforts are genuine and their work quality, they will have the respect of their superiors. Thus building trust and ruling out the need for drug testing.

Drug testing is just a way for employers to weed out the junk.
So don't be junk. Whether you do drugs or not. Just be a good employee and that's all that matters.

Finchie · 12-06-2003, 07:45 PM

I don't do drugs, but I don't fully support drug tests for most jobs. There are some jobs, such as a surgeon, where being drug free is very important, because if you fuck up, someone dies. For these jobs, I wholeheartedly support drug testing. Other jobs, like your average retail job, isn't as important in the sense that it can horribly affect a human life. What does it matter if someone does "lighter" drugs such as marijuana on their own spare time? Say your cashier smokes up once a week after work. Is that going to hinder his job performance? Probably not. And if they let it, they deserve to get fired.

lordjeebus · 12-06-2003, 08:37 PM

There's a difference between using drugs and working under the influence of those drugs. The problem with drug testing is that it does not discriminate between the two.

I think that if there is no problem in a worker's quality of work, there's no need for an employer investigate and find a "problem."

Similarly, if there is a problem in the worker's quality of work, the employer need not be concerned with whether or not drugs are involved -- they should simply demand that they get themselves together or find another job. Is there a difference between one who is incompetent because of drug use and one who is incompetent because of laziness?

Also -- most companies allow their workers to drink outside of work. But they wouldn't want their workers working drunk. As long as a worker can do their work well, I think that companies would better spend their resources elsewhere.

Aside from that, I think that drug tests are an invasion of privacy, and while it may be legal for a company to demand them, I consider it unethical.

And finally, I find drug testing odd because it is usually not comprehensive and can provide incentive for someone to shift from marijuana (usually tested for) to something harder that's not tested for. Example: When I attended a private high school, the administration announced that it would begin random drug testing for marijuana, cocaine, heroin, PCP, and methamphetamine. The result was that the 1/3 of the class that smoked marijuana moved to shrooms, ecstacy, and LSD.

Sledge · 12-07-2003, 03:04 AM

I agree (as I'm finding to be the case often) with the lord here.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bloodslick
[B]That's not exactly a reassuring thought to me. I have smoked marijuana recreationally, but I quit long ago and I know that when I did it, it was well after I was home from work and was generally when I had the next day to recover from my pursuits.

As you note yourself, smoking pot does not translate to irresponsibility. Responsible smokers will only smoke up after hours, when there's time to and when there's time to recover. Drug tests don't measure that, and I see nothing wrong with people trying to get information about how to flub them.

Irresponsible smokers should be found and fired, obviously, but you do that by tracking an employee's contributions and efficiency.

jay-g · 12-07-2003, 05:39 PM

Whats your problem? Why are you justifying that it was ok when you smoked weed, just because you did it on your "offtime". Then you are complaining that people are trying to get around these tests because they smoke weed. Offtime, at work, its all the same. You still smoke.........

HarmlessRabbit · 12-08-2003, 12:34 AM

In my experience, alcohol and alcoholics are a far worse problem in most work environments than drugs. Pot, in my experience, doesn't give you nearly the hangover that alcohol does.

I'd be far more concerned about the airline pilot who got drunk out of his mind the night before than the guy who took a couple of bong hits.

But, I will agree with you on this point: someone who isn't willing to quit for a couple of weeks so that they can pass a pre-announced or pre-scheduled drug test probably has a drug problem. In that sense, a drug test is kind of an intelligence test.

Bloodslick · 12-08-2003, 11:22 AM

HOLY FUCK. I had a rather long reply posted here, but because of some strange way that vBulletin handles my cookies, it was eaten because I took so long to write it that I had to log back in.

Never fucking mind.

The_wall · 12-08-2003, 01:28 PM

lol its sort of funny reading this thread, considering I get stoned at work all the time. ( Don't worry I'm just a dishwasher)

Bloodslick · 12-10-2003, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_wall
lol its sort of funny reading this thread, considering I get stoned at work all the time. ( Don't worry I'm just a dishwasher)

Your habit of being stoned at work could very likely cause a lack of attention to detail. This could have several outcomes, the least of them being people who are disgusted by an unwashed glass or plate. The largest of them being food poisoning, salmonella, or e. coli.

I know that it's hard to think when you're stoned, but at least give it a try.

The_wall · 12-10-2003, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Your habit of being stoned at work could very likely cause a lack of attention to detail. This could have several outcomes, the least of them being people who are disgusted by an unwashed glass or plate. The largest of them being food poisoning, salmonella, or e. coli.

Well I don't really give a fuck about customers, and if I get fired from my job its really no big deal to me. That being said, I miss little spots on dishes when I'm not stoned, so I'm bound to miss a few. The cooks and the wait staff check the plates/cups before they are put to use. Dishwashing isn't exactly rocket science either, its not hard to get them perfectlyl clean. And one last note, the majority of the cooks there also smoke pot while at work with me lol.

Bloodslick · 12-10-2003, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_wall
And one last note, the majority of the cooks there also smoke pot while at work with me lol.

That's reassuring. I just don't think I'm going to respond to your posts anymore.

The_wall · 12-10-2003, 10:45 AM

I think you need to lighten up, pot really doesn't impair judgement as much as something like alcahol does. Its not like we're smoking a 3 gram blunt. We usually smoke something like a pinner (which is a really small joint if you didn't know) and get a nice little high.

The chefs are still more then capable of cooking and keeping up with the orders when they get a little high. And if the resturaunt is really busy they are responsible enough to know they can't waste time to smoke.

Sho Nuff · 12-10-2003, 11:35 AM

When I was trading equities I always took a few bong hits before work on options expiration days. It calms the nerves and enhances discipline when you have picked your exit point but the stock is volitile and youre panicing because you dont want to miss your window and lose your ass. People would constantly praise me for being cool under pressure. Little did they know...

World's King · 12-10-2003, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_wall
I think you need to lighten up, pot really doesn't impair judgement as much as something like alcahol does. Its not like we're smoking a 3 gram blunt. We usually smoke something like a pinner (which is a really small joint if you didn't know) and get a nice little high.

The chefs are still more then capable of cooking and keeping up with the orders when they get a little high. And if the resturaunt is really busy they are responsible enough to know they can't waste time to smoke.

Pot doesn't impare judgement? The fact that you smoke it at work proves that it impares judgement.

The_wall · 12-10-2003, 08:58 PM

I said it doesn't impair it as much as alcahol. Plus we don't smoke ourselves silly.

isis · 12-10-2003, 09:17 PM

Of course pot impares your judgement. Thats why it is classified as a "mind altering substance".

I've been guilty of smoking every once in awhile, but NEVER while doing something that requires judgement such as working, driving, etc.

You don't think it impares you as much as alcohol because it seems easier to function with, but that is just one of the problems with pot. I don't think people can fathom what they are really doing sometimes if they are under the influence.

Until you see yourself from the outside, you can't truely see the effects. I've never once come across a stoned person who I didn't know was stoned. This tells you something.

Bloodslick · 12-11-2003, 06:37 AM

Thank you, The Original King and isis, for backin' me up here.

The rest of you all know that a cook who's stoned on the job would think it would be funny as hell to put extra toppings on a burger that was supposed to come up plain, and that they'd probably do it once they thought about it. How is this not having your judgment impaired? As The Original King said, how is smoking pot at your workplace, where you could legally be fired for it, not having your judgment impaired?

I really don't care if you do these things on your own time, but the point of this thread is that without drug testing the lot of you drug users can't be weeded out of the regular working population. I don't want my burger to come back with extra toppings; I don't want my glass to come back with e. coli lovingly left around the rim; I don't want my UPS package routed two states away because the idiot sorting the packages as they come off the truck is stoned; I don't want to have to explain myself three times, slowly, before my request to be put through to the electronics department is understood; I don't want some higher-up to stop producing the style of lamp that I like because it doesn't look like it would make a good bong. Do you understand?

The_wall · 12-11-2003, 09:52 AM

Quote:

The rest of you all know that a cook who's stoned on the job would think it would be funny as hell to put extra toppings on a burger that was supposed to come up plain, and that they'd probably do it once they thought about it.

Way to make assumptions. I'm not working at a burger king here, I work at a somewhat classy resturaunt thats has a view right next to the beach. They would be fired if they did stuff like that.

Sledge · 12-11-2003, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bloodslick
I really don't care if you do these things on your own time.

Me neither, Bloodslick. Me neither. Which is why I have a problem with drug tests that are retroactive by an entire month. Why should what a person does on her own time impact whether or not she can have a job?

If you can't tell whether or not somebody's stoned on the job, fine - design a test to help you. But I see no use for a test that will tell you whether or not someone smoked up in the past month.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bloodslick
Do you understand?

Yes. Do you?

HarmlessRabbit · 12-11-2003, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bloodslick
Do you understand?

All the things you list can, and do happen without the help of drugs. So get off your high horse. You've done drugs in the past, do you think current mandatory sentencing laws, which could have put you away for five to ten years in prison, would have made you a better person?

As I said before, alcohol is a far larger problem in the workplace than marijuana.

31Friction · 12-12-2003, 12:22 AM

there is alot I could say on this but I'm afraid I would come off alot harsher than I wanted to. So rather than go on a rant about how un-fair and basically stupid drug testing in general is... (the fact someone who blows coke can get it out in 2 days whereas a person who smokes a joint has to wait 30...) along with the fact MOST recreational drug users use them as RECREATION just like so many people like to have a drink after work, others prefer a bowl of nugs.

In NO WAY do I condone being under the influence of drugs while on the job but really if drugs are in a workplace it isnt too hard to find them, work on those people and dont worry about what's in everyones piss...

I have to give props to litespeed for this:
"What I do see with co-workers, though, is that no matter what their private life may be, if their efforts are genuine and their work quality, they will have the respect of their superiors. Thus building trust and ruling out the need for drug testing.

Drug testing is just a way for employers to weed out the junk.
So don't be junk. Whether you do drugs or not. Just be a good employee and that's all that matters."

that was a very good way to put it. I've smoked since I was 13, not *regularly* but often enough. I've also been in management positions and under security clearance jobs since I was 16. I dont mix drugs and work so why should I lose my job as if I did? I work hard at work, and when I relax I dont always choose to just have a drink.... anyway, I'm going to break it there before I go off onto a full page rant....

*edit*
btw, I grew up on piss tests (nothing drug related, it was just required) and have yet to EVER fail one, so if anyone has any questions I'm more than happy to share the method... Orange juice, water, and a multi-vitamin

if your into reading check out a book called "Urine Trouble"

bermuDa · 12-12-2003, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bloodslick
The rest of you all know that a cook who's stoned on the job would think it would be funny as hell to put extra toppings on a burger that was supposed to come up plain, and that they'd probably do it once they thought about it. How is this not having your judgment impaired?

I worked with stoner chefs before, and they never tried to piss off or play pranks on the customers. They did their jobs and occasionally poked fun at each other... and what kind of sense of humor is that? "oh he asked for plain so i'm gonna give him toppings" fuckin HI-LARIOUS

Quote:

I don't want my burger to come back with extra toppings; I don't want my glass to come back with e. coli lovingly left around the rim; I don't want my UPS package routed two states away because the idiot sorting the packages as they come off the truck is stoned; I don't want to have to explain myself three times, slowly, before my request to be put through to the electronics department is understood; I don't want some higher-up to stop producing the style of lamp that I like because it doesn't look like it would make a good bong. Do you understand?

Your original rant was about people who circumvent drug tests, but now you're complaining about people who take drugs at work and fuck up their jobs or your orders. What kind of executive would discontinue a lamp because it wouldn't make a good bong? what's the correlation? Fuck-ups happen with or without drugs, but you make it seem like smokers do it on purpose to fuck with you. and the e. coli on your glass? c'mon.

I'm not defending people who smoke at work, and I have not and would not mix the two (in fact i don't even smoke anymore); but in my experience, my coworkers who smoked ON THE JOB did their jobs just fine, and they would burn a whole blunt on their break. They also never did anything as remotely heinous as your exxagerated examples.

asudevil83 · 12-12-2003, 11:11 PM

i personally dont thing that marijuana is all that bad. people treat it as though its something terrible. its absolutely no worse that alcohol, except that alcohol is legal and marijuana isnt. people think its bad because other people say it is.

but i do see your point to some extent. employers are looking to hire people that do not do drugs. for whatever reason, they just dont feel comfortable with a stoner working for them. it may be just because its illegal, or they feel that people underperform with it in their system. whatever.

but this business of not being able to stop smoking just for a couple weeks is just pathetic. if you KNOW you have to take a test, then dont smoke

12-12-2003, 11:29 PM

I can understand the complaints- but it won't get you anywhere.

Be who you are. That's what matters.

bermuDa · 12-12-2003, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by asudevil83
but i do see your point to some extent. employers are looking to hire people that do not do drugs. for whatever reason, they just dont feel comfortable with a stoner working for them. it may be just because its illegal, or they feel that people underperform with it in their system. whatever.

I'd feel more comfortable with a stoner working for me than an alcoholic; I'd certainly rather have someone under the influence of marijuana at work than someone who is drunk. Not all companies are like this, but I think the larger corporations see employees who use illegal drugs as a liability.

Glory's Sun · 12-14-2003, 10:41 PM

there's nothing wrong with getting fucked up as long as you are responsible.... *GASP* you can be responsible getting fucked up?? YES! if you let it take over your job and your life then that's not responsible..but if I get fucked up on a weekend..and it isn't hurting anything then big deal

31Friction · 12-15-2003, 03:47 PM

just as a suggestion, anyone who still thinks weed is THE DEVIL or anything of the like... watch "Reefer Madness" as a precurser to watching the movie "Grass". Grass is narrated by Woody Harrelson and should alleviate any of your thoughts of marijuana being such an evil evil drug. And no, none of it is made up. It's a documentary on the History of Marijuana and it's laws...

Lasereth · 12-15-2003, 06:28 PM

I hate drug threads. That's why I usually stay clear of them. I also try to stay clear of alcohol threads because they infuriate me just as much.

This thread caught my attention, however. It's not the topic that got me interested, it's the replies from some members at TFP. Someone mentioned that it was alright to get high at work. At a restaurant...preventing people from getting LIFE threatening food poison-related illnesses. This is simply not smart. I'd take legal action against the worker if I found out that my dish wasn't clean because he was high. It's not alright to get high at work no matter where you're employed. Well, except maybe at illegal-drug testing facilities. Ha ha.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sledge
Why should what a person does on her own time impact whether or not she can have a job?

Yeah, it does impact it when they're doing something illegal in their free time. Do you want someone that commits illegal activities in their free time to work for you? No. What does that tell them about business ethics?

People have mentioned that chefs would never do anything stupid while being stoned on the job. Give me a break. Being stoned makes you a fucking idiot. If I'm ever an employer and find out that one of my employees is high or drunk on the job, their ass is gone, and possibly in legal trouble.

In conclusion, I'd also like to express my concern about a lot of people on TFP saying it's perfectly fine to get high and get drunk. No, it's not. Doing drugs is bad for you. Doing them at work is even worse. Drinking isn't against the law, but it doesn't change the fact that it makes people as stupid as drugs do. It's not "perfectly ok" to get high, and it's not perfectly fine to get drunk. It creates problems and leads to nothing good except for a momentary enjoyment. I don't care if people want to do drugs and drink, but don't act like it has all positive effects and that it's alright to do it at the job.

-Lasereth

sprocket · 12-15-2003, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lasereth

In conclusion, I'd also like to express my concern about a lot of people on TFP saying it's perfectly fine to get high and get drunk. No, it's not. Doing drugs is bad for you. Doing them at work is even worse. Drinking isn't against the law, but it doesn't change the fact that it makes people as stupid as drugs do. It's not "perfectly ok" to get high, and it's not perfectly fine to get drunk. It creates problems and leads to nothing good except for a momentary enjoyment. I don't care if people want to do drugs and drink, but don't act like it has all positive effects and that it's alright to do it at the job.

-Lasereth

First Im gonna say that when i mention drugs in my post I refer to alcohol as well. For some reason people seem to think of it as something seperate from all the other supposedly EVIL drugs (like coke or X) out there.

Now really, it all depends on moderation. People who over do it will cause themselves problems. If you are able to keep drug use in check and are able to function in society while being a happy person, then do the damn thing. If you cant do your job, wether its because you're drooling on yourself in front of customers in a drug induced stupor or because you're just plain incompentent you should be fired. Firing an otherwise good employee for failing a drug test is firing them based on the assumption that they are gonna do something stupid or dishonest that they havnt done yet. It takes job performance completely out of the picture, wich really doesnt make sense.

I actually used to work for a software company where drug tests had been considered. The idea was shot down. One of the biggest reasons was that they KNEW they would lose quite a great deal of key employees had they done so. Employees who did quality work and were some of the most brilliant people I've ever met. *And this a pretty reputable company but Im not going to mention the name*

So next time you get a burger with extra pickles when you asked for none, or your favorite software crashes at a critical moment dont be quick to blame the problem on drugs (and think that drug testing will solve the problem), just blame it on stupidity.

bermuDa · 12-15-2003, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lasereth
People have mentioned that chefs would never do anything stupid while being stoned on the job. Give me a break. Being stoned makes you a fucking idiot. If I'm ever an employer and find out that one of my employees is high or drunk on the job, their ass is gone, and possibly in legal trouble.

I didnt' say that chefs would never do anything stupid while being stoned, I just said the ones I've worked with never DID. I haven't condoned anything:

Quote:

I'm not defending people who smoke at work, and I have not and would not mix the two

Astrocloud · 12-15-2003, 11:50 PM

For some reason I am reminded of my college roommate Kevin who was not only getting his master's degree in Statistics but he was doing it with a bong in one hand.... Literally.

I was shocked and appalled (superflously speaking) because at the time my recreational drug use was isolated to Fridays and Saturdays. He would not only complete all of his homework with a bong on the table but he would also carry on long theoretical discussions with his professors.

Yes, he was an A student.

I guess my point is that marijuana doesn't affect people as harshly as some anti-drug propaganda would have us believe. If you are shocked by other people's willingness to fool a drug test then perhaps you are just easily shocked.

Drug tests exist to enforce the status quo. I truly doubt their effectiveness in combating human error because human error exists whether or not people are on drugs. In other words; people tend to blame their mistakes on something like the pot they smoked -rather than just admitting that they are stupid and would've made the mistakes anyway.

raeanna74 · 12-16-2003, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_wall
I think you need to lighten up, pot really doesn't impair judgement as much as something like alcahol does. Its not like we're smoking a 3 gram blunt. We usually smoke something like a pinner (which is a really small joint if you didn't know) and get a nice little high.

The chefs are still more then capable of cooking and keeping up with the orders when they get a little high. And if the resturaunt is really busy they are responsible enough to know they can't waste time to smoke.

Your attitude stinks. If you can't wait until you get home to have a smoke of ANYTHING tobacco or pot and you have to do it WHILE working you have a PROBLEM. Remind me not to go to your restaurant.

I have a friend who is a CEO of a corporation. Obviously he will remain unnamed here. I know he has had a little marajuana now and then despite the laws. Once night he had 2 puffs. THAT'S all. Next morning he's got a friend of his asking him what he was doing the night before. He had called a friend of his who was a guy and who he wasn't amorously interested in to profess his undying love for the guy. AND he didn't even remember making the call. He hasn't had a puff since. He figures if he does things that he doesn't always remember when he's high on the stuff then he could really srew things up. He agrees that it's not as rough on a person as alcohol is but it alters your conciousness enough that he doesn't feel safe doing it anymore.

BTW I've worked dishpit for a decent restaurant. If you want to do your job right you need to be awake - not HIGH. I tried doing it while taking Codine that my Dr had prescribed. My boss sent my home. Do your job and face reality once in a while. You might actually find out your missing something.

raeanna74 · 12-16-2003, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_wall
I think you need to lighten up, pot really doesn't impair judgement as much as something like alcahol does. Its not like we're smoking a 3 gram blunt. We usually smoke something like a pinner (which is a really small joint if you didn't know) and get a nice little high.

The chefs are still more then capable of cooking and keeping up with the orders when they get a little high. And if the resturaunt is really busy they are responsible enough to know they can't waste time to smoke.

Your attitude stinks. If you can't wait until you get home to have a smoke of ANYTHING tobacco or pot and you have to do it WHILE working you have a PROBLEM. Remind me not to go to your restaurant.

I have a friend who is a CEO of a corporation. Obviously he will remain unnamed here. I know he has had a little marajuana now and then despite the laws. Once night he had 2 puffs. THAT'S all. Next morning he's got a friend of his asking him what he was doing the night before. He had called a friend of his who was a guy and who he wasn't amorously interested in to profess his undying love for the guy. AND he didn't even remember making the call. He hasn't had a puff since. He figures if he does things that he doesn't always remember when he's high on the stuff then he

dog1 · 12-19-2003, 03:53 PM

Smoking a little pot ain't no big deal. All you judgemental nazis lighten up (and light up, you need it)

sherpahigh · 12-19-2003, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lasereth

Quote:

Originally posted by Sledge
Why should what a person does on her own time impact whether or not she can have a job?

Yeah, it does impact it when they're doing something illegal in their free time. Do you want someone that commits illegal activities in their free time to work for you? No. What does that tell them about business ethics?

So do you believe that a person having a drink on their own time impacts whether or not they can have a job? Maybe a second look at how silly the laws regarding marijuana is in order. Knowing someone "commits illegal activities" by smoking pot on their own time tells me absolutely nothing about their business ethics. Maybe knowing that they do so at work tells me something about their business ethics but not when it's on their own time.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lasereth

In conclusion, I'd also like to express my concern about a lot of people on TFP saying it's perfectly fine to get high and get drunk. No, it's not. Doing drugs is bad for you. Doing them at work is even worse. Drinking isn't against the law, but it doesn't change the fact that it makes people as stupid as drugs do. It's not "perfectly ok" to get high, and it's not perfectly fine to get drunk. It creates problems and leads to nothing good except for a momentary enjoyment. I don't care if people want to do drugs and drink, but don't act like it has all positive effects and that it's alright to do it at the job.

Thanks for your concern. Duely noted. Eating hambugers and fries for lunch is bad for you. Should we make that illegal too? Of course alcohol and drugs CAN be bad for you and create problems. It turns out though that a lot of the people out there that CHOOSE to use them responsibly are able to clearly think for themselves and make the decision to do so. I agree with you that doing drugs at work is not right. I could, however, make an argument against your statement that drugs lead to nothing good except for a momentary enjoyment.

This is all a little off topic I guess since the thread started as a drug testing rant. That's already been replied to well enough. lordjeebus said it best:

Quote:

Originally posted by lordjeebus

There's a difference between using drugs and working under the influence of those drugs. The problem with drug testing is that it does not discriminate between the two.

I think that if there is no problem in a worker's quality of work, there's no need for an employer investigate and find a "problem."

Similarly, if there is a problem in the worker's quality of work, the employer need not be concerned with whether or not drugs are involved -- they should simply demand that they get themselves together or find another job. Is there a difference between one who is incompetent because of drug use and one who is incompetent because of laziness?

Also -- most companies allow their workers to drink outside of work. But they wouldn't want their workers working drunk. As long as a worker can do their work well, I think that companies would better spend their resources elsewhere.

Aside from that, I think that drug tests are an invasion of privacy, and while it may be legal for a company to demand them, I consider it unethical.

And finally, I find drug testing odd because it is usually not comprehensive and can provide incentive for someone to shift from marijuana (usually tested for) to something harder that's not tested for. Example: When I attended a private high school, the administration announced that it would begin random drug testing for marijuana, cocaine, heroin, PCP, and methamphetamine. The result was that the 1/3 of the class that smoked marijuana moved to shrooms, ecstacy, and LSD.

bartgroks · 12-19-2003, 10:35 PM

Well if you smoke pot every day It is going to be pretty hard to get high enought to forget to wash your hands. Hell for what a resteraunt pays I might come to work high myself.

Its funny that the thread has become about people getting high at work. Drug testing does not test for impaired work.
It does not differentiate between the guy who shared a joint last weekend and the guy who will steal customer info to feed a coke habit. Its actually geared more towards catching the former guy.

st33lr4t · 12-21-2003, 08:54 AM

if you are able to peform your job and meet the standards of the job then i dont see it as a problem. i dont think people that do drugs are different they people that have a scatter brain and forget to do certain aspects of their jobs...or people that just dont care.

what about people the lie on their resume to get jobs?

who cares if its getting done right.

macro · 12-22-2003, 05:55 AM

In some companies I've worked for, drug consumption was up around 85% of the company. Currently, I'd give it around about 20%. These companies have been leaders in their fields. What does that say?

12-06-2003, 04:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
Bloodslick Loser Location: a darkened back alley	Drug rant. It's a very short one, though. I'm constantly astounded by the number of people asking on these boards how to rid themselves of the residues of illegal drugs before they take a drug test. These people are trying to get jobs where they will perform some function, and seeing as I need many functions and services performed on a daily basis, I'm beginning to realize that the odds are that the person helping me is on some sort of drug. That's not exactly a reassuring thought to me. I have smoked marijuana recreationally, but I quit long ago and I know that when I did it, it was well after I was home from work and was generally when I had the next day to recover from my pursuits. With all of the people who are trying to flub their results, what guarantee do I have that the person helping me is as responsible as I tried to be? Is ANYONE else worried or indignant about this? (Oh, I'm 24, so when I say that I quit long ago, it's not like I'm 40 and experimented fifteen or twenty years ago. I grew up.)

12-07-2003, 05:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
jay-g Addict	Whats your problem? Why are you justifying that it was ok when you smoked weed, just because you did it on your "offtime". Then you are complaining that people are trying to get around these tests because they smoke weed. Offtime, at work, its all the same. You still smoke......... Last edited by jay-g; 12-07-2003 at 05:44 PM..

12-10-2003, 11:35 AM	#15 (permalink)
Sho Nuff Addict Location: Harlem	When I was trading equities I always took a few bong hits before work on options expiration days. It calms the nerves and enhances discipline when you have picked your exit point but the stock is volitile and youre panicing because you dont want to miss your window and lose your ass. People would constantly praise me for being cool under pressure. Little did they know... __________________ I know Nietzsche doesnt rhyme with peachy, but you sound like a pretentious prick when you correct me.

12-12-2003, 12:22 AM	#23 (permalink)
31Friction Addict Location: STL, MO	there is alot I could say on this but I'm afraid I would come off alot harsher than I wanted to. So rather than go on a rant about how un-fair and basically stupid drug testing in general is... (the fact someone who blows coke can get it out in 2 days whereas a person who smokes a joint has to wait 30...) along with the fact MOST recreational drug users use them as RECREATION just like so many people like to have a drink after work, others prefer a bowl of nugs. In NO WAY do I condone being under the influence of drugs while on the job but really if drugs are in a workplace it isnt too hard to find them, work on those people and dont worry about what's in everyones piss... I have to give props to litespeed for this: "What I do see with co-workers, though, is that no matter what their private life may be, if their efforts are genuine and their work quality, they will have the respect of their superiors. Thus building trust and ruling out the need for drug testing. Drug testing is just a way for employers to weed out the junk. So don't be junk. Whether you do drugs or not. Just be a good employee and that's all that matters." that was a very good way to put it. I've smoked since I was 13, not regularly but often enough. I've also been in management positions and under security clearance jobs since I was 16. I dont mix drugs and work so why should I lose my job as if I did? I work hard at work, and when I relax I dont always choose to just have a drink.... anyway, I'm going to break it there before I go off onto a full page rant.... edit btw, I grew up on piss tests (nothing drug related, it was just required) and have yet to EVER fail one, so if anyone has any questions I'm more than happy to share the method... Orange juice, water, and a multi-vitamin if your into reading check out a book called "Urine Trouble" __________________ "Saints need sinners." Alan Watts Last edited by 31Friction; 12-12-2003 at 12:27 AM..

12-15-2003, 03:47 PM	#29 (permalink)
31Friction Addict Location: STL, MO	just as a suggestion, anyone who still thinks weed is THE DEVIL or anything of the like... watch "Reefer Madness" as a precurser to watching the movie "Grass". Grass is narrated by Woody Harrelson and should alleviate any of your thoughts of marijuana being such an evil evil drug. And no, none of it is made up. It's a documentary on the History of Marijuana and it's laws... __________________ "Saints need sinners." Alan Watts

12-06-2003, 05:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
ninety09 Flavour of the Weak Location: Canada	I am also annoyed by this. I don't care if some people want to take drugs, but they should also face the consequences.

12-06-2003, 05:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
Litespeed Loser Location: Thousand Oaks, CA	Not sure what I think about this one... if people are always working to fool the tests, it only means that the tests will get more difficult to fool. Just the natural cycle of things. I have no employees. I have no drug history. Maybe I just don't understand. What I do see with co-workers, though, is that no matter what their private life may be, if their efforts are genuine and their work quality, they will have the respect of their superiors. Thus building trust and ruling out the need for drug testing. Drug testing is just a way for employers to weed out the junk. So don't be junk. Whether you do drugs or not. Just be a good employee and that's all that matters.

12-06-2003, 07:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
Finchie Tilted	I don't do drugs, but I don't fully support drug tests for most jobs. There are some jobs, such as a surgeon, where being drug free is very important, because if you fuck up, someone dies. For these jobs, I wholeheartedly support drug testing. Other jobs, like your average retail job, isn't as important in the sense that it can horribly affect a human life. What does it matter if someone does "lighter" drugs such as marijuana on their own spare time? Say your cashier smokes up once a week after work. Is that going to hinder his job performance? Probably not. And if they let it, they deserve to get fired.

12-06-2003, 08:37 PM	#5 (permalink)
lordjeebus ‚±‚Ìˆó˜U‚ª–Ú‚É“ü‚ç‚Ê‚© Location: College	There's a difference between using drugs and working under the influence of those drugs. The problem with drug testing is that it does not discriminate between the two. I think that if there is no problem in a worker's quality of work, there's no need for an employer investigate and find a "problem." Similarly, if there is a problem in the worker's quality of work, the employer need not be concerned with whether or not drugs are involved -- they should simply demand that they get themselves together or find another job. Is there a difference between one who is incompetent because of drug use and one who is incompetent because of laziness? Also -- most companies allow their workers to drink outside of work. But they wouldn't want their workers working drunk. As long as a worker can do their work well, I think that companies would better spend their resources elsewhere. Aside from that, I think that drug tests are an invasion of privacy, and while it may be legal for a company to demand them, I consider it unethical. And finally, I find drug testing odd because it is usually not comprehensive and can provide incentive for someone to shift from marijuana (usually tested for) to something harder that's not tested for. Example: When I attended a private high school, the administration announced that it would begin random drug testing for marijuana, cocaine, heroin, PCP, and methamphetamine. The result was that the 1/3 of the class that smoked marijuana moved to shrooms, ecstacy, and LSD.

12-08-2003, 12:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
HarmlessRabbit Junkie Location: San Jose, CA	In my experience, alcohol and alcoholics are a far worse problem in most work environments than drugs. Pot, in my experience, doesn't give you nearly the hangover that alcohol does. I'd be far more concerned about the airline pilot who got drunk out of his mind the night before than the guy who took a couple of bong hits. But, I will agree with you on this point: someone who isn't willing to quit for a couple of weeks so that they can pass a pre-announced or pre-scheduled drug test probably has a drug problem. In that sense, a drug test is kind of an intelligence test.

12-08-2003, 11:22 AM	#9 (permalink)
Bloodslick Loser Location: a darkened back alley	HOLY FUCK. I had a rather long reply posted here, but because of some strange way that vBulletin handles my cookies, it was eaten because I took so long to write it that I had to log back in. Never fucking mind.

12-08-2003, 01:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
The_wall Psycho Location: Rhode Island biatches!	lol its sort of funny reading this thread, considering I get stoned at work all the time. ( Don't worry I'm just a dishwasher)

12-10-2003, 10:45 AM	#14 (permalink)
The_wall Psycho Location: Rhode Island biatches!	I think you need to lighten up, pot really doesn't impair judgement as much as something like alcahol does. Its not like we're smoking a 3 gram blunt. We usually smoke something like a pinner (which is a really small joint if you didn't know) and get a nice little high. The chefs are still more then capable of cooking and keeping up with the orders when they get a little high. And if the resturaunt is really busy they are responsible enough to know they can't waste time to smoke.

12-10-2003, 08:58 PM	#17 (permalink)
The_wall Psycho Location: Rhode Island biatches!	I said it doesn't impair it as much as alcahol. Plus we don't smoke ourselves silly.

12-10-2003, 09:17 PM	#18 (permalink)
isis Insane Location: In the Woods.	Of course pot impares your judgement. Thats why it is classified as a "mind altering substance". I've been guilty of smoking every once in awhile, but NEVER while doing something that requires judgement such as working, driving, etc. You don't think it impares you as much as alcohol because it seems easier to function with, but that is just one of the problems with pot. I don't think people can fathom what they are really doing sometimes if they are under the influence. Until you see yourself from the outside, you can't truely see the effects. I've never once come across a stoned person who I didn't know was stoned. This tells you something.

12-11-2003, 06:37 AM	#19 (permalink)
Bloodslick Loser Location: a darkened back alley	Thank you, The Original King and isis, for backin' me up here. The rest of you all know that a cook who's stoned on the job would think it would be funny as hell to put extra toppings on a burger that was supposed to come up plain, and that they'd probably do it once they thought about it. How is this not having your judgment impaired? As The Original King said, how is smoking pot at your workplace, where you could legally be fired for it, not having your judgment impaired? I really don't care if you do these things on your own time, but the point of this thread is that without drug testing the lot of you drug users can't be weeded out of the regular working population. I don't want my burger to come back with extra toppings; I don't want my glass to come back with e. coli lovingly left around the rim; I don't want my UPS package routed two states away because the idiot sorting the packages as they come off the truck is stoned; I don't want to have to explain myself three times, slowly, before my request to be put through to the electronics department is understood; I don't want some higher-up to stop producing the style of lamp that I like because it doesn't look like it would make a good bong. Do you understand?

12-12-2003, 11:11 PM	#25 (permalink)
asudevil83 Psycho Location: Scottsdale, AZ	i personally dont thing that marijuana is all that bad. people treat it as though its something terrible. its absolutely no worse that alcohol, except that alcohol is legal and marijuana isnt. people think its bad because other people say it is. but i do see your point to some extent. employers are looking to hire people that do not do drugs. for whatever reason, they just dont feel comfortable with a stoner working for them. it may be just because its illegal, or they feel that people underperform with it in their system. whatever. but this business of not being able to stop smoking just for a couple weeks is just pathetic. if you KNOW you have to take a test, then dont smoke

12-12-2003, 11:29 PM	#26 (permalink)
:::OshnSoul::: Guest	I can understand the complaints- but it won't get you anywhere. Be who you are. That's what matters.

12-14-2003, 10:41 PM	#28 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	there's nothing wrong with getting fucked up as long as you are responsible.... GASP you can be responsible getting fucked up?? YES! if you let it take over your job and your life then that's not responsible..but if I get fucked up on a weekend..and it isn't hurting anything then big deal

12-15-2003, 11:50 PM	#33 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	For some reason I am reminded of my college roommate Kevin who was not only getting his master's degree in Statistics but he was doing it with a bong in one hand.... Literally. I was shocked and appalled (superflously speaking) because at the time my recreational drug use was isolated to Fridays and Saturdays. He would not only complete all of his homework with a bong on the table but he would also carry on long theoretical discussions with his professors. Yes, he was an A student. I guess my point is that marijuana doesn't affect people as harshly as some anti-drug propaganda would have us believe. If you are shocked by other people's willingness to fool a drug test then perhaps you are just easily shocked. Drug tests exist to enforce the status quo. I truly doubt their effectiveness in combating human error because human error exists whether or not people are on drugs. In other words; people tend to blame their mistakes on something like the pot they smoked -rather than just admitting that they are stupid and would've made the mistakes anyway.

12-19-2003, 03:53 PM	#36 (permalink)
dog1 Upright	Smoking a little pot ain't no big deal. All you judgemental nazis lighten up (and light up, you need it)

12-19-2003, 10:35 PM	#38 (permalink)
bartgroks Crazy Location: Dallas, Tx.	Well if you smoke pot every day It is going to be pretty hard to get high enought to forget to wash your hands. Hell for what a resteraunt pays I might come to work high myself. Its funny that the thread has become about people getting high at work. Drug testing does not test for impaired work. It does not differentiate between the guy who shared a joint last weekend and the guy who will steal customer info to feed a coke habit. Its actually geared more towards catching the former guy. __________________ I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by Google Last edited by bartgroks; 12-19-2003 at 10:46 PM..

12-21-2003, 08:54 AM	#39 (permalink)
st33lr4t Psycho Location: Dallas, Tx	if you are able to peform your job and meet the standards of the job then i dont see it as a problem. i dont think people that do drugs are different they people that have a scatter brain and forget to do certain aspects of their jobs...or people that just dont care. what about people the lie on their resume to get jobs? who cares if its getting done right.

12-22-2003, 05:55 AM	#40 (permalink)
macro Crazy Location: where you live	In some companies I've worked for, drug consumption was up around 85% of the company. Currently, I'd give it around about 20%. These companies have been leaders in their fields. What does that say?