majik_6

Here's the deal:

I'm currently considering going one of two avenues with my post-collegiate life: Opening an upscale cigar and liquor store, or opening a custom/showcar paint and bodyshop. I can get kinda restless, so I'm sure I'll try both before it's my time to check out, but I'm interested in hearing opinions from those involved with either type of business: salary, hours, general things to consider, etc.

Here's the details:

If I open the cigar and liquor store, I want to keep it upscale (think Padrons, not Phillies...single malt, not Schlitz).

The cigar store would either incorporate, or be adjacent to a type of "gentleman's retreat"...basically a masculine spa: Get a haircut, shave, shoe shine or even a massage and manicure all while sipping a first-growth Bordeaux or puffing away at a Diamond Crown. Basically, make the place a comfortable location for relaxing with your purchases, and maybe even get a few treatments, with an emphasis on service, and bending over backwards to cater to the customers.

In addition to the retail of vices, I have an incredible interest in the culinary/service fields and would like to incorporate a bar/private lounge/small restaurant into the same complex, probably with the same "brand name" to be visited in hours at which the shop is not open.

I would like to be in the Columbus area.


If going the cars route:

Located in Columbus area, or a larger area of West Virginia (Charleston, Parkersburg--hey, it's got a pretty good car scene)

I would like to mostly do custom paintwork (I'm getting my bachelors of fine arts right now, just to have an extra edge should I take this route), high-end custom stereo installations, and other jobs (upholstery, custom rims, etc.) as opposed to oil changes and alignments (although those are important parts of the automotive industry).

Offer full design services (as far as the cars are related) to make sure the customer is getting exactly the look they desire.

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So, with the long-winded part done, what do you guys think would be most successful, and do you think that the businesses given could thrive in the selected locations?

Thanks in advance.

Cynthetiq

go to the local chamger of commerce.... talk to them about it and see if they can see your vision and can see how it will better the local economy not to mention the needs of the locals.

as a man... i'm not inclinded to do any of the spa type things... even though I like to be pampered... i don't like to be pampered that way... and if I am.. then well, I expect it to be more like an upscale gentleman's club....

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majik_6

Cynthetiq: Our local chamber of commerce is a joke. My dad's been president a few times, and it's mostly just his golf/business buddies, so I consulted him on this matter (he's a CPA and specializes in helping people open/operate businesses).

I know for a fact that it would NEVER work in my area, since you don't even need a good suit, no matter how formal the work.

I should probably go to the Columbus Chamber, but I'm not from that area, and it's kind of intimidating. But, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.

Perhaps I should clarify, it'd be MUCH unlike a spa, and MUCH more like an upscale gentleman's club: Leather chairs, woodpanelling, cigars, and cognac. A very old-world club feel.

Also, the services wouldn't be mudbath, floral oil kinda stuff. More like: hot-lather shave, old-school shoe shine, maybe a sports massage, for the more metrosexually inclined: a manicure, with clear or no polish or an exfoliating facial (the kind that's designed to scrub away dirt, not the flowery, cucumber on the eyes type). There would be a definite focus on sensitivity towards mosts men's (myself included) discomfort with walking around in a white bathrobe, and hanging out in a steamroom naked around others. The kind of things that would help a business man to relax afterwork and project an air of success.

Thanks for the feedback. Anyone else care to chime in?

Here's a club in NYC that's very similar to what I would like to do: http://www.johnallans.com
Although the clubs feature spa/salon features, they are discrete, and are well marketed towards men: cigars, a bar, billiards, never calling it a salon or spa, but rather a CLUB.

I'd like to do something like that, but with a larger emphasis on the cigars and booze, since those are my biggest interests in that field.

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Cynthetiq

Sorry. I thought that your location was local to you. But yes, the CC local to the area you are looking for.

The CC should be able to provide you some demographics of the area because you want to make sure that your clientele would be able to pay for the services you want to be rendering.

I live in NYC so I'll have to check this place out....There are lots of clubs in NYC from cultural to hobby... maybe you can even test the waters but doing a benefit with the VFW or Knights of Columbus in that area so that you can do a test run. Rent out a hall, advertise it as a donation type thing and see if it appeals.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

majik_6

Hmm, the donation thing sounds like a good idea. How would you recommend doing it?

Sorry, I'm just having a hard time trying to figure out exactly what I'd be offering at the benefit.

Also, I do know that there's probably enought business for the cigar/wine side, since there are quite a few of those type of retail locations in the Columbus area catering to the high-end consumer, and they appear to be doing well, although none of them are exactly what I'm searching for.

My girlfriend is an accounting major, and has apprenticed at a bakery for over a year, so we're discussing possibly working together to form a small "market" type of thing: Her bakery/patisserie in the same building as the (working title) Mahogany Club Gentleman's retreat, and Rossi's spirits and smokes boutique. All separate entities, but working together: the club buys booze and tobacco from the boutique, the bakery provides items for both, and all three work together on promoting it as a high end destination, with the possibility of renting space in the future to other compatible high-end businesses.

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irseg

Your post just inspired me to go pick up some good rum and cigars.

I like the gentlemen's club idea. You might want to talk to some golf courses in the area about revamping their lounge, that way you'd already have the building and a perfect location for that kind of thing.

majik_6

The idea with a golf course is not a bad one...I'll have to do a search to see if there are any golf courses in the Columbus area (I'm sure there are). If nothing else, they'd be good for a promotional tie-in.

I'm thinking I need at least a minor in business.

I just got back from dinner with an area doctor. Had some great food, nice wine, and after dinner cigars, and it just reaffirmed my belief that this COULD work. I was talking to him about the idea, and he thought it seemed fascinating.

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Cynthetiq

you don't need a minor in business but it will help. theory of how to run a business is totally different than the practical day to day operations.

i have plenty of friends who became entrepenuers and have no business sense or schooling.

as far as the benefit... well first find out if you can get someone to donate something.. that's the first step, then find out if someone is willing to give you space and will help spread the word etc. you need to figure out the donate figures. maybe you'll pay the donor 50% value so that they aren't donating the thing 100% but they will not get paid until the donations are collected.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

majik_6

And I would be giving away spa services, or cigars/wine?

I guess that's where I got lost.

The other thing is, I'm in no way trained in the spa/salon area. I understand the theories, and what the treatments do, but can't administer them. So those will all have to be hired out.

I do, however, have a pretty good knowledge of cigars, and a decent knowledge of wine which I hope to augment by getting my sommelier's certification after college.

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it's all about self-indulgence

Rodney

Speaking strictly as a big advocate of the worst-case scenario, I vote for the custom paint/bodyshop route. It'll make sense in good times and bad. In good times, somebody'll buy a new car and ask you to jazz it up. In bad times, somebody who can't afford a new car will bring around his _old_ car and ask you to jazz it up.

The brandy, cigar, and shoeshine idea is really a neat concept, but it basically kinda sounds like a barbershop with legal drugs. Not necessarily a combination that resonates in the public consciousness. Besides, in bad times they can shine their own shoes, buy their own booze by the bottle, and so on. But they can't decorate their own cars -- at least, not as well as you can.

Cynthetiq

right on rodney.. that's why i mentioned the demographics, you need to get an idea as to just how much disposable income there is...and disposable income varies from year to year. while the car care service has some disposable income aspects to it... it's like rodney said... shine their own shoes, etc. because the service they pay extra for... well they can scrimp and save by not using your service. except for skilled services like cars

discount cigars, maybe hire a cigar roller for the night and have him roll cigars for the "charity" same thing with the spa massage. while you cannot do them yourself, you should be resourceful enough to find people who can and are willing do to it as a donation. What would you do if someone said, "here's the keys open on monday" you'd basically shit your pants...because you don't have any of the services or goods even close to ready to put ot market. booze takes time.. you will need a liquor license, which takes some good $$$ to secure.

look at some of the target businesses and ask youself what certificates, registrations, permits, skills, will i need to open that business tomorrow.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

majik_6

Yeah, I definitely don't have anything ready to open for quite a while. Right now, I'm just trying to figure out what I'm going to be doing so that I can kind of focus my college years a little better.

Right now, it's looking like I'll need in excess of a million dollars minimum for the men's club (assuming I find a decent, but cheap building and just renovate it a little), along with a very large facility, a staff of probably 5-8 for retail, a dozen for the spa part, and probably 10-12 for the club/restaurant. Not to mention the bakery. That, however, would be none of my concern.

So, at least 27 people, $1,000,000 in taxes, licensing, remodelling, and partial stocking, probably another $100,000 in merchandise, $10,000 in marketing and public relations, $100,000 in kitchen equipment, plus the money needed to pay these 27 people's salaries, and keep the business running until it turns a profit. All in all, probably around 1.3-1.5 million dollars.

Looking at that now, it looks high, but I'm fully aware that in any business project, whatever looks high to start with ends up barely getting you by (if at all).


Perhaps, I'll do the car thing during/immediately after college and hopefully by the time I'm 28-30 I'll have this thing at least started. That would allow me to build some capital, and find either backers or loans to set everything up.

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Cynthetiq

so in that time... maybe the market will have completely swayed and changed.

it's good to dream... just don't stay asleep.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

majik_6

I definitely need to keep an eye on the economy, and try to work towards a definite plan. After class today, I'm going to try to get demographic features for the Columbus area, preferably showing several years back, so that I can kind of get a feel for the average financial situation in that city.

Hopefully I can sit down with my dad tonight, and we can kinda work out what I need to be doing to make a business plan, and how to better figure what kind of money will be required, since he's been in several types of businesses over the years.

Rodney: I think you've got some very good points. Perhaps the bodyshop route would be good to do while I'm trying to finalize a business plan, and also to keep me supplied with a little extra income, since the retail idea would probably not turn a significant profit for some time.

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it's all about self-indulgence

BonesCPA

Keep in mind, most businesses don't turn profits for some time. Generally the only exception are service businesses, not product based ones. In either case, you need upfront money to purchase equipment, supplies etc. Unless you have someone willing to back you, don't expect significant borrowing capabilities upon graduation.

What you may need to do is go with the body shop work, but be an employee initially - you won't have the profits when things are good, but you also won't have the debt load when it is bad.

Assuming Cynthetiq is saying, heterosexual man, that might mean a club focusing on gentlemen of other tastes could be the right choice. Now I am not suggesting a flaming pink neon sign out front (sorry for the stereotype), but the correct marketing can do wonders towards bringing in the clientele.

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Back into hibernation.

majik_6

BonesCPA:
Well, if I go the custom paint route, I won't be jumping in headfirst. I've actually got plans to start doing some work for friends and people around town this winter to make a little cash and gain valuable experience. Hopefully that will allow me to be producing some good supplementary income by the time I graduate college.

I actually have a bunch of bodyworking equipment sitting around, and my best friend and I are going to buy all the other necessary stuff this winter, just so we can save money painting our own cars, while allowing us to be pickier about how the cars are painted. We just figured that if we've got the equipment, we might as well pick up some work on the side. He's already got a full-time job, so it wouldn't be something that we'd both be trying to jump into fulltime without a fallback (normal) job. As far as supplies, it'll be enough to lay good, full-custom paint jobs, but we're just doing this part-time, so the supply list isn't extravagent (no hydraulic lifts in the floor, no frame rack, just paint/body supplies totalling up to about 3,000...I can come up with my half a whole lot quicker than I can come up with 1.5 million! The fact that we're not acquiring a new building helps as well.

As far as the borrowing for the retail location: I definitely don't expect to be getting any loans straight out of school. When I talked with my dad, he recommended getting a good job, and making some money, as well as getting some experience in the wine/cigar retail field for at least 3-5 years before presenting a business plan to anyone.

Your comments on marketing to an alternative clientele are very interesting. That may in fact be an interesting thing to research.

Just to clarify: the cigar/wine retail isn't a business I plan on opening anytime within the next few years, I'm just trying to find out how various people feel about the idea, and my family/friends aren't much help, since they're not exactly the ideal clients for such a business. Everyone's been a ton of help!

Hmm, does anyone have figures on what the percentage of success is (rough average) for a specialty retail shop (since I would probably have to open the shop solely retail before going into the spa thing--an idea my father had, said it'd probably help to build a client base, as well as establish the "manly" image before trying to convince guys to try the spa thing) and what kind of salary can be expected from a small-medium specialty retail store (as far as the owner is concerned)? Obviously, there are no magical formulas for this, since it's such a varying market, but I was just curious as to what kind of estimates you guys had (my usual go-to site, www.bls.gov, is no help, since it doesn't account for the self-employed). Thanks again.

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BonesCPA

Just keep in mind some things with the paint operation - when you are small and just doing a job here and there, you can slip under the radar on certain things, specifically township, county, state, etc. regulations on safety issues. If you are doing word of mouth business, then you might not be noticed, but if you start large scale, there are certain things that may be required, such as a properly vented paint booth (costs upwards of $30k). Zoning can be a pain too. Just things to keep in mind for future expansion.

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Back into hibernation.

alkaloid

It is nice to see that entrepreneurial spirit is alive and well, majik_6. I wish you lots of success in your venture. This is pretty awesome.

majik_6

BonesCPA: You are very correct. As of this point, I'm going to try to hone my skills just as an "under the radar" word of mouth situation. It's not uncommon in my town for businesses (especially automotive ones) to operate that way for several years to start, or sometimes, to continue like that indefinitely.

If in fact it does become a profession, I will look into getting a more permanent location. The fact that it is one-off custom jobs will help, in the sense that I won't need some of the larger "production" style equipment. Moving to a larger space, would however be tens of thousands of dollars, as you have mentioned.

alkaloid: Thanks for the kind words! Support from this forum is helping me to rough out the ideas I need.

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G_Whiz

Lots of interesting discussion, but there is a research source that might be worth following up on. Is there an Economic Development Board in the area you're considering for business? They typically will have a lot information about the business climate for related business in those industries. They can give you some idea about potential competitors, prevailing wages, labor market, etc. While you can get similar information from a CofC, usually they are more focused on marketing the community and existing businesses.

I am currently involved in a project locally to build the workforce for the hospitality industry here. We are working closely with the EDB to survey the industry to get a picture of what is needed. It's amazing to see the gaps in the info that is available.

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majik_6

G_Whiz: That's a very good idea. I doubt that there's anything like that in the area that I'll be starting the automotive business in (I'm starting it in my hometown until I graduate college), but I'm sure Columbus has something like that. I'll do a web search, and see if there's anything like that for the area.

I know I'm getting an excessive headstart on this business (at least 5-8 years), but hey, being prepared never hurt anyone!

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majik_6

Bingo! The Almighty Google has lead me to the Economic/Lifestyle/Business site for the Greater Columbus Area.

Seems like a GREAT resource.

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