Zeraph

For instance, I have a full-blooded Cherokee ancestor 9 generations back. Personally I'd say that's too far to consider myself Cherokee. But that got me thinking. How far back "counts"? Is it totally up to the person? Should some white guy claim he's part of the Cherokee Nation just cause he has an ancestor?

Baraka_Guru

Don't ask me this question. This is where I hit a bit of an identity crisis.

I'm a Canadian. But I'm a Caucasian with mixed British and some French ancestry, yet it goes back far enough and with some murky circumstances that my family doesn't really have any connections to the "homeland."

So I'm Canadian, and not much else. The problem with that is that I'm not First Nations or anything, so I'm more or less a Canadian of the pioneering/settling/colonizing stock.

Yeah. I'm just a Canadian. In the post–17th century kind of way.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

telekinetic

Cherokee nation is one of the tribes which allows any direct descendants to register as members, as long as there is an unbroken chain of registered members. If you're just finding out about it, you probably don't have that, but if your great great great (etc) had registered, and registered his son, who registered his daughter, etc etc etc down to you, you could be Cherokee. You wouldn't be able to get a Certificate of Degree if Indian Blood, though...or maybe you would, but it would say 1/512.

Navajo nation requires 1/4. My wife is 1/4 Navajo and 1/4 Apache (both on her mom's side), so has a Navajo CDIB and census number (better benefits than Apache). Our daughters are 1/8th Navajo and 1/8th Apache, so rather than register as a specific tribe, they will get CDIBs with no tribal affiliation but that show 1/4 Native American, which is enough to be eligible for generic Native American scholarships and benefits from the Bureau of Indian Affairs

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twisted no more

Zeraph

eh what do you mean by an unbroken chain of registries?

telekinetic

You could register as Cherokee if one of your parents was, regardless of dilution. So if you are the kid of a registered Cherokee's kid who also registered (repeat 9 times) you could be Cherokee.

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twisted no more

ZombieSquirrel

I have Cherokee Ancestors on both sides. I believe 3 generations back on my father's side and 4 on my mother's. My nose comes from my father's side and it definitely can be traced back to the paternal Native American ancestors. Looking at old family photos on my mother's side the shape of my face comes from my maternal Native American ancestors. My great great err great? grandmother's native american name meant tall trees. There are many short women on my mother's side except for me, my mother and a cousin. My aunts are convinced that's where my height comes from. The women on my father's side are tall though. So whatever.

I may have certain physical traits that my family has inherited from our Native American ancestors, but we've never been a part of the culture. I am a "briar-hopper" as my mother/grandmother would say. I am probably one step above a redneck and I'm cool with that. I wouldn't consider myself Cherokee.

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Attack ZombieSquirrels

Strange Famous

Ive only been able to find back 7 generations of my family, but they are all English or Scottish (or all the ones Ive found)

I personally like to think of myself as a direct descendant of The Conqueror... with someone who lived 1000 years ago and is the same race as you, its more likely than you'd think...

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

kramus

The ex's aunts and uncles on her father's side found they could register as Metis because of their Voyageur/Indian blood (French-Canadian is their first language,and they are a very dark haired, deeply tanned group of aunts and uncles). So the ex's sister and one brother registered because the Metis allow that. The ex chose not to because we'd never had any cultural connection with the Metis and felt it would be purely a money grab to go for it. Not sure if the ex has changed her mind since the divorce to bring the kids into the Native American fold.

I think of myself as a Canadian with pioneer stock on both sides. There is a smattering of Western European countries for family origin - mostly British Isles but also Austrian and Pennsylvania Dutch. There is a tenuous possibility that I have some Native American of some sort from my dad's side, but it is only a possibility. Apparently there is a family legend about an ancestor who had Native Amnerican concubines - my dear old dad was struck by how large and dark his aunts and uncles were considering they were of English, German and Irish heritage. That and his nose really looks Native American.

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And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ...
I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca

Fotzlid

I am a mutt with at least 5 different nationalities, that I know of, from both sides. All can be traced back no more than 4 generations to "full blooded" origins.
I don't consider myself % anything. I'm just an American.

Willravel

I'm primarily German, followed by Irish, by way of Oklahoma and Indiana, respectively. If I found out that one ancestor, 9 generations previous, was of a Native American nation, I don't think I'd stop considering myself to be Caucasian... not that being Caucasian defines me in even the slightest way. It's like having detached earlobes, as far as I'm concerned.

StanT

50/50 German/Polish. Other than food preferences, I can't say that I identify with either. I don't think anything a few generations back would change that.

GreyWolf

As I've told my kids, they are 1/4 Scottish (last name), 1/4 French (their mother tongue), 1/2 Irish (both grandmothers), and 100% Canadian. The Irish heritage goes back quickly to Ireland (2 and 4 generations). The Scottish is less pure, but largely Scottish/English since my first Canadian ancestors arrived in North America in 1814. The French goes back absolutely purely French to 1614, when my wife's ancestors first arrived in Acadia (I'm the second non-French and first non-Catholic to pollute her line). My father-in-law searched desperately to find some Amerindian blood in his family tree, but never could. So we are basically your run-of-the-mill European colonists, and definitely NOT of Cherokee or any other First Nation descent.

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The secret to great marksmanship is deciding what the target was AFTER you've shot.

dlish

full blooded lebanese here ( whatever that means), with an aussie accent.

with the conquest of the Levatine over the years, i could really be anything. But with the lebanese being the fairest of the arabs in terms of skin colour ( and probably beauty), i dare say we have european influence, most likely from Turkey, but also from Spain and Malta because of the Phoenician civilisation that existed there B.C.

Im Australian with lebanese heritage.. or a Lebanese Australian. works both ways. I pick and choose what i am when it suits me.

There have been many times when i tell people im lebanese without disclosing that im Australian, and vice versa.

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

kaerlyon

Of course, I have'nt native blood but in France, we have many differents nations (european, asian, african...). My mother made my tree when I was young. She went until XVIIe (for she and my father) and we have only french blood: 1/4 from Bretagne, 1/4 from Charente and 1/2 from Limousin. It's strange to imagine my family never leave this country.

__________________
"And this weak and idle theme, No more yielding but a dream, Gentles, do not reprehend. If you pardon, we will mend. And, as I am an honest Puck, If we have unearned luck Now to scape the serpent's tongue, We will make amends ere long; Else the Puck a liar call". A Midsummer Night's dream

Plan9

I can't wait until we're all some shade of brown and can put this race/ethnicity thing in the trash can once and for all.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Strange Famous

When people say Indian, you do mean from India, right?

Or does it still mean "Native American"/"First Nation" etc in the US?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Jinn

Indian means Native American when self-identified, e.g. many Indians prefer to call themselves, and name their organizations with that label.

It is generally passe to identify another Native American an Indian, though, because of the historical connotations. And even in the case of an unspecific "they", Indian is ambigous; I think most would assume Native American rather than of Indian descent, because "Middle Eastern" is more likely applied in the unspecific case.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Daniel_

I'm English.

Both my parents were, and 3 of my grandparents. My fourth grandparent is an unknown quantity - but could be anything from the allied nations as one parent was conceived in London in the year preceding D-day, and my grandmother was not good at collecting names...

Through my father's maternal family, I am descended from John of Gaunt. He was son of Edward III, who was himself descended from Henry II, whos mother was Empress Matilda, daughter of Henry I, son of William I (the Conqueror).

My wife on the other hand cannot claim descent from William, but can tie herself back to a noble Saxon who went north for the battle of Stamford Bridge, and was injured so didn't come south for the battle of Hastings.

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╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

bagatelle

Why not some shade of yellow? 1 out of 7 people in the world is Chinese already.

I find it real cool, that we have different races and groups of people, who have maintained their unique external features.

I can't easily tell much further than 5 generations back, some branches maybe 11 generations back, but it all stays inside Finnish borders.


At the end of the day, what's so noble about the noble? The fact they were able to keep tally on ancestors of a blood line that was likely more degenerated than "common" people?

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Plan9

Aside from wars, slavery and discrimination for thousands of years... what else have these unique external features brought us?

Not a goddamn thing. Having a different skin color used to be a leading cause of death for many ages. It's still going strong in many countries.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

bagatelle

I think I know what you mean. It holds the thought that unless we all look alike, we can't stand other differences.

You probably don't see it as much as an English speaker as I as a representative of a small culture, how easily we might lose cultural differences as well, language and habits. These are in many cases tied to appearance.

What to do about it?

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Plan9

I'm doing my part by not having white children. The sooner we get rid of white people, the better.

I get your side. I do. Culture is important, traditions down the generations, etc.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

bagatelle

I'm more worried about the effects of languages than appearances. For me it's lovely to see adopted kids from whatever part of the world with chinese, columbian, any african features and hear them speak perfect Finnish. I'm sure they know the culture then too, not only the language.

There's a threat that universal English will run down cultures.

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Leto

I don't buy it. If it wasn't colour, we would find another reason to fight. Like, for example, religion. Or cultural differences.

For the time being I relish in the diversity that we get the variety presented to us. That isn't to say that I'm not doing my part to homogenize the human stock, as my kids are a blend of Caucasian and Oriental themselves.

I'm with BG - Canadian stock of European origins - my father being German, but with roots in both Poland and Arras, but basically considering himself to be Hessian. My mother is Scottish but with Viking & English admixture. With a generation removed from from the paternal side and 2 from the maternal, I consider myself to be Canadian of the non-pioneering stock.

my wife's heritage can be traced back to a village near Canton (Guangzhou) for many generations (as far back as the family book is writ) and can say that she is pureblood Han. So our kids are now on the road to the dreamed of homogenized state. Proud as they are of their Chinese background, they are so culturally Canadian that there is little thought of their roots except during festive occasions.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

Plan9

Religion and culture are not genetic and don't manifest themselves in the form of your physical features.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Leto

Precisely my point. Thanks. Even without the colour differences, people will find a way to war.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

Plan9

Apples and oranges, bro.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

KirStang

I'm probably something like 1/4096th's Dutch. Back when Taiwan was still colonized by the Dutch, someone on my Grandma's side got it on. Sometimes you can see a bit of red reflected in my hair.

I'm totally a white person. /joke

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kaerlyon

Whaouuu, nobody choose his skin. But many people are afraid because they aren't know another race. And it's real for all colors !

__________________
"And this weak and idle theme, No more yielding but a dream, Gentles, do not reprehend. If you pardon, we will mend. And, as I am an honest Puck, If we have unearned luck Now to scape the serpent's tongue, We will make amends ere long; Else the Puck a liar call". A Midsummer Night's dream

Baraka_Guru

Self-loathing whitey. Being white isn't the problem; it's regarding whiteness as the racial register by which we gauge all races.

"White" isn't really a race; it's an entity that informs us what one isn't more so than what one is. After all, it isn't cool to be proud of being white.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Stop trying to put smart in my statements. And fuck white people.

...

Regarding the OP:

I don't have a family history. Nobody kept track of it. My last name is generic white mutt. My grandparents are dead. My genealogical tree is a stump. I have no ethnic pride. And I'm glad. And, yes, "Well, actually..."-slinging Dr. Sciences of TFP... I realize that "white" isn't a race. That's my super deep philosophical debate tool here: You point out that "white" isn't a race and yet I'm quite sure some of you lump all black guys into the same category even though a black dude from Detroit and a black dude from Entebbe would look at each other like each was a different species. So, yeah, awesome.

And you're absolutely right, Baraka. Being white isn't cool anymore (if it ever was). It's downright shameful. You're not allowed to have "white pride" (whatever the hell that is) because it's incredible loaded. And I'm glad for that, too. Racial pride (somebody explain how that is ever positive) is totally asinine but especially such for white people. White people have been a leading cause of murder, war and slavery throughout human history.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

I have no history, no culture. I'm even an anti-nationalist.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ZombieSquirrel

Based on the type of seman carriers to which I am attracted, I'd say that I'm doing the same thing.

I also refer to the notches on my bed as "The Passport." I have an Australian stamp, but not a Lebanese stamp. I don't know how that would work though.

I just giggled at "works both ways."

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Attack ZombieSquirrels

Zeraph

White-Black-Mocha-ish POWA! RESPECT my authorti!

dlish

im so going to Portland..if only to help ZS with her lebanese notch.

9er - if the world does indeed go down the road that you're hoping for, people like me will stop travelling.

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

bagatelle

I can't get along with one woman in another forum, mainly because of her connections with some people, I wasn't getting along at the time she joined, plus due to her own character, but she tried to prove, I don't like her, because she's black. I'm not and it's not my fault.

I don't see color, when I post. I see opinions.

Is this post straying too far from the original topic?

__________________

Baraka_Guru

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

WhoaitsZ

not to mention you're Pierce fucking Brosnan!

i wish I could afford to research my genealogy. I know I have German and French blood. Also American Indian but I am not sure which. Sad, I know.

---------- Post added at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 PM ----------

---

White Pride people are fucking hilarious. We are allllllllll mixed and matched in one way or the other. I can almost understand culture pride and have no problems with people keeping their culture alive. But skin color? That''s insanely dumb to me.

All people ultimately destroy everything we touch.. Pride in human beings...... not so much

Charlatan

I am mix of Scottish, English, Welsh and Canadian. My mother and father were both born and raised in Canada but only my Mom's father was born Canadian. Through him, I go back as far as the first foreign settlers of Scarborough, Ontario -- David and Mary Thompson. My last name is the most common surname in Ireland, so I suspect that if you follow my Welsh roots it will take you to Ireland.

My wife's family goes even further back in Canada by way of her Mother's mother. The Foy family is one of the big families in the Ottawa Valley. There is a mix of French Canadian, Native Canadian and English Canadian...

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

kaerlyon

I don't understand the tread. Where is the problem ? I'm not pride because I'm white. I'm not sad too. I'm born with this this skin and I can't change. And you ? you can ? But my mind isn't white, black, yellow, red or all another color ! If a man is ok, I don't see the color skin.
Sorry but my skin is very very white (the winter and very red the summer ) and when I was young , I suffered because I lived in the south of France with many Italian with a beautiful brown skin from sun. I had many mockery so I don't think it's a pride the white skin or an advantage but I can't change that ! And if you judge people by his skin you risk to pass through knowledge about another culture.
I work with an african woman and I love when she speaks to me about his country
Sorry if I speak about to me but it's more easy for explain

__________________
"And this weak and idle theme, No more yielding but a dream, Gentles, do not reprehend. If you pardon, we will mend. And, as I am an honest Puck, If we have unearned luck Now to scape the serpent's tongue, We will make amends ere long; Else the Puck a liar call". A Midsummer Night's dream