I need a new perspective on what constitutes abuse?
 

Ok, don't want to get into too much detail here in case she ever finds it and thinks I was airing out her dirty laundry.

So she has this long term boyfriend, lets call him skittles (fuck you skittles). They date for a bit over a year. They break up "nicely and mutually." They seem like such good friends (btw to straight people of opposite sex can never really be friends) that they rent a house together. So all is well and good for about 6 months.

Then he professes his undying love for my sister and wants to start popping out babies. My sister is like, I'm still in college no way, I'm over you.

Then he throws a major fit. Tosses her stuff, and starts pushing her. WTF? And then it happens again when she comes back for her stuff.

I mean, am I like the only one who thinks her big brother and a baseball bat should visit him in the wee hours of the morning?

So far (I can't believe it) everyone has said for me to ignore the situation (she is moving out next week after all). But she never reported him to the cops or anything.

What happened to protective older brothers? Has this nation been that pussified? I'd die to protect a sister I despise.

Feel free to go beat the tar out of him, if you think that the best way to serve your sister is by going to jail. I doubt that it is.

Sounds to me like the guy is a bully and that being the case, your presence alone would be sufficient to settle his temper. If it were my little sister I'd call her up, offer her any help she needs(particularly going over to help her move her stuff out) and leave it at that.

Go with her to help her move out or whatever it takes to have her move away from an unhealthy situation. Make sure *YOU* don't do anything stupid either. I can't help but think how many criminal law cases I've read that begin in a similar manner.

Ok, fine. I get the idea. I shouldn't just go after him. I guess I'm a traditionalist.

But do you think it'd be considered abuse?

Sad but true - often assholes who do that kind of shit have some kind of radar or some such thing. They know who to get rough with, and when to be physical - and it seems they also know what to say when the authorities step in. You might think he would be getting a lesson if you took him outside and gave his face a serious case of road rash, but odds are you would end up with a record and probation. And your sister might rather you just let this period of her life fade away into the shadows.

That said, if you have the time you ought to be there, and you ought to let him know there are boundaries, and you ought to get your camera phone out and pretend it's to document the move or whatever, but it is really to let the fellow know that he is on notice.

Abuse is a matter of definition. One person's abuse is another persons reasonable behaviour. Don't bet the farm that you would be justified in the eyes of the law if you smacked the guy down. ON the other hand, if there are witnesses or bruises then you could argue that the guy needs to get a lesson in legal system entanglement.

In the legal sense, probably not, but maybe. Bottom line is, unless she has bruises, it's all hearsay at this point.

"Traditionalist" by what sense? Vigilante justice has never been a good idea, and almost always ends the person up in jail.

I guess it depends on the "pushing". Was it to move her out of the way to avoid further confrontation? Was it to back her against the wall to intimidate her? Was it a violent shove flinging her across the room? There is a big difference between each case. My guess is that if the sort of other behavior you describe was going on, there is probably more mental and verbal abuse occurring, which can be just as bad/worse.

As others have said, going over there and putting a knot on his head will probably just get you in trouble while teaching him very little. But in your shoes I would almost insist that my sister go to collect her things at a time that I could accompany her. Guys who bully women are often much more reluctant to do so in front of someone who can physically reciprocate.

It was a violent push from rage. He was literally screaming at her at the time.

Besides its not vigilantism if I'm protecting my sister. That's self defense by proxy.

We wouldn't be having this conversation if I knew where he was. He'd have at least a broken leg and one broken arm depending on how generous I was feeling.

You're all assuming I'd get caught. I can cripple someone in under 10 seconds. I can strike from 20 feet away before someone has time to draw their gun (I've timed it with my friends who are gun nuts like me).

Unfortunately, you would get caught. Crippling him or striking him without being seen won't protect you much. Plus, there's a nasty little thread here that would weigh heavily against you if the prosecution ever got their hands on it. You probably shouldn't be asking our advice/discussing this with us and then suggestion you might be doing something illegal... things like this have a way of turning up when you don't want them to.

That aside, do I understand your position? 100%. Absolutely. What would I do? Not something I'd discuss here. Did he assault her? Yes, and she should have reported it to the police. It's a somewhat sad state of affairs, but a realistic one, that the police will believe her more than him in that situation. Even if they do nothing, he's put on notice that if anything happens to her after that, HE is the prime suspect. Sometimes, even with assholes like him, that works.

Meh, I can't go through with it anyways because I don't know where he is and I dislike violence. But I'll let you in on a secret. My uncle was a police officer for 25 years. Its not at all like CSI, they don't do internet research or DNA or finger print analysis just because some guy got beat up. I wouldn't let him recognize me so there'd be nothing to go on.

Even if they found this post its circumstantial as someone else might be talking about it too. Its not like I'd yell and scream at him in a public place. I'd take him alone before he knew what hit him and be gone.

Either that or I'd inject him with something nasty as I "accidently" brushed against him.

Mine as well make a point with this post. People way way over estimate cops, in many ways.

edit: I doubt they'd even know about a poison dart frog's poison. They're too used to dealing with absurdly stupid criminals.

i have no idea on the seriousness of your ideas zeraph.

sounds like old school cold war russian assassination techniques to me...or you can file a restraining order and get your sister the hell away from her. it's really that easy.

ohh..and revenge is best served cold.

id also add that if the police got a sniff that you were in on it, they could whisk you and your computer away and find your public post here. smart thinking 99.

Agree with Hektore, violence wont quill the problem it best just to be present and "help" her move her things out.

I've said too much comrade! hehe

They need a warrant to take my computer. By the time they could get one (if they even could) I could easily destroy the hard drive.

edit: and don't worry, I'm not going to do anything. I've been working on being a nicer citizen.

Zeraph-

Dude, you are not thinking rationally.

First off, you have absolutely no right to attack him. None. The alter-ego statute of self-defense only applies if the person (your sister) has a right to self defense. She left the situation days ago. She is not in imminent danger of physical injury (right now) so you are SOL. If you were helping her move and he attacked her, you could defend her. That's it.

This is a matter for the police. She needs to file a report.

If you attack him in his home, and are a relative of a person evacuating his home, you will be charged with criminal domestic violence. This will mean they will take your guns and you will never be allowed to own one again.

Get your head on straight, man. This little fantasy you are playing out in this thread will ruin your life.

Cimarron29414- dude, I calmed down days ago. My second post said I'm not going after him. The rest was just fun theory. Next time read at least the first 3 replies before replying to a thread.

I knew I saw you in Taken.

crap there goes me secret identity!

Zeraph on a good day:

Zeraph,

I read the entire thread prior to posting. There was absolutely nothing in your words which implied you were kidding.

I agreed I wouldn't go after him and then changed the subject on whether its considered abuse.

How much clearer can I be?

---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

PS I wouldn't call what I was saying a joke per se. I just like theorycrafting, but I was doing it in an obviously non serious way. I've done it with my cousin since we were kids. Only back then it was mechwarriors versus wizards and such heh.

Hi Zeraph

In England, I believe it WOULD be considered assault. Definitely abuse.



Now ... MY feelings would include 'kill the &*%$£ bastard'

If I had friends around me, I'd definitely do what I call a 'Hold Me Back' thread, if it were online, or if face to face, I'd surround myself with people with whom I can express my ... my anger and agony etc, along with knowledge that i DO have to do SOMETHING ... it is not a matter for simply suffering and hoping. I would be in a very energetic mix of grim-mirthful exaggeration, genuine thirst for blood, need to get confirmation that I can feel all this but that I am still a 'safe' person, confirmation that I am not wimping by wanting to support the peaceful solutions.


"How much clearer can I be"
Well, Cimarron29414 will answer for h/erself.


I will however say the following: IF I were in your situation, and feeling the way your words indicate, then I'd KNOW that at some point in the, hopefully near future, i will be going to where she's at to help her move her stuff out.
I will be going there KNOWING that I am going to do the right thing, the safe thing, the cautious thing. I will calm and control my urge for blood.

As You Are Doing Here, Zeraph .... and all respect to you for this.

As, to help her remove her stuff, I stand in her apartment, I cannot predict the atmosphere.
'HE' might not even be there. Phew.
He Might be there. Cool. PERHAPS.
And perhaps not.

You cannot be clearer than you are.
I consider you are perfectly clear, and do you know who I would want to have By My Side when I went to help her move out?
Cimarron. That's who.

And if s/he could not be with me, I'd want h/er WORDS to be a blazing and protective ring of fire between ME with my good intentions, and HIM, who is not under oath to support your peaceful resolve.

In HIS presence, it is the messages of someone like Cimarron which need to stand guard when today's fantasies and theorycrafting, will be in your mind on some tomorrow when you have to make REAL split-second decisions.

What I'd do would be to go with two friends ... one of either sex, perhaps. That would give a message of 'non threatening,' provide witness, and diffuse the effects of or on any one of the main personalities involved.


I'll close by reiterating my 'strictly on topic' response to your thread: YES .. it's abuse, and I'd feel like killing and maiming the bastard ... not necessarily in that order. In my heart of hearts, I would not feel that my wish to punish and wreak payback was wrong. I WOULD GRASP the politically and personal-freedomly unsafe consequences of doing so. At a DEEPER LEVEL, something inside, some DEEPER MIX of prudence, intellect, emotion and spirituality NOW would be going [[[[[ ohshitohshitohshit]]]] and know it's right to accept the very serious support of very serious friends.

That's the gist of my own theorycrafting.

Take care.

Your thread title got my attention.

In my view, kindness cures many ills. Self abuse happens when we let ourself become angry over another person's unbalanced behavior. Compassion for all involved would solve some of these frustrations.

Best Wishes!!
John

As someone who is also English, I can say without 100% certainly that if all that happened was genuinely "pushing" there is zero percent chance of the police charging him, zero chance of a prosecution going forwards, or a caution.

For common assult someone has to have minor injuries (ie a eye, a broken nose, a bust lip)

It is true to say that legally any form or threat of physical force that causes harm can be called an assault, but you also have to take into account the law in the way it is actually practised and enforced.

_

In terms of whether the behaviour is abusive, I dont think it can be judged from the information available. It is possible that it could be, but a lot depends on the intention of the man and the interpretation of the actions by the woman. Also on degree. "pushing someone" could be a slight and petulant gesture, it could be forcefully shoving someone into a wall, hurting them, while shouting threats. The latter would be seen by anyone as abusive. A petulant shove that causes no pain and carries no threat really cannot be.

Well he pushed her against the wall hard enough that she felt she needed to flee, got out ASAP, and stayed with a friend. She's tough, and yet she still told us about it. I think she is misguidedly protecting him. Otherwise she could at least give me a number, so I can cuss him out.

Any progress on this rotten situation, Zeraph?

He isn't worth going to jail for, and who protects your sister if your locked up?

Have the police come as civil observers while she gets her stuff. He won't act up, and if he does they'll arrest his ass.

She had the landowner kick him out for the afternoon, she moved her stuff and hasn't seen him since.

If I knew of anybody getting abused like that I'd find a way for the guy to regret his position.

Then again I live in Mississippi. My state is so assbackwards who knows what would happen.

I can handle and be tolerant of anything but abuse. Abuse = time to injure a motherfucker.