genes/upbringing vs. society - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

isandro · 07-11-2003, 03:57 AM

A couple of years ago I did exactly one year of a social-educational study, and the teacher asked us this question:
how much of your personality [you think] comes directly from your parents, and how much of it came from society and self-development? In other words, how much of your character was more or less defined even before you were born?
So we all filled in the percentages and came out between 10/90 parents/society and 40/60. We were all about 18-21 years old, and the teacher explained to us that he did the same thing with an adult class (35-60 y/o) and the results there were exactly opposite. It's always kinda stuck in the back of my head and I got curious what you people think of this.

TaiModan · 07-11-2003, 04:15 AM

most of my faults are hereditary, but more of my morality is from watching and seeing the actions/reactions of those around me.

lurkette · 07-11-2003, 06:20 AM

I think it's a little deterministic to look at it this way. Genetics determines very few things about a person's personality. It can set the boundaries - give you a predisposition to certain things like anxiety or empathy - but almost all of personality development happens in the interaction between your biology/genetics and your environment, or more properly, your response to your environment, which is to some extent guided by your genetics but also has huge cognitive and emotional components that are unique to the situation and to the individual's perspective. Look at identical twins - exact same genes, exact same environment, yet most develop very distinct personalities. It's not an either/or proposition - it's a both/and one.

isandro · 07-11-2003, 06:35 AM

uhm, that's why the percentages, right? I agree it's a combo of both factors, but what are the proportions? If you take the twins, how different could they become? What happens if you put one in a high-class intellectual home and the other with uneducated slackers?
What sticks- stubborness, intellect, empathy- would these traits show up no matter what, or could someone who is not empathic by nature easily become empathic because the parents promote it?
Actually, my main question, I guess, was: how much do you look like your parents?
Maybe I should rephrase...

lurkette · 07-11-2003, 09:22 AM

I'm just saying that I don't think you can split it out like that - it's 100% genes AND 100% environment because they work inseparably.

The_Dude · 07-11-2003, 09:43 AM

i get a lot more from society than my parents. we're way different

isandro · 07-11-2003, 11:10 AM

well, for instance, my dad has this weakness, he can't say no.
I have this tendency aswell, but when I saw that it leads to in my parent's lives I decided to try my damndest to change that. I can't change my dad because he just smiles and shrugs and says 'yeah, i know, i know...'
Anyway, I think that I myself have learned to deal with this inherited aspect of my personality, wich would imply that I'm one part less my parents, one part more myself.
Or am I oversimplifying?

BBtB · 07-11-2003, 11:37 AM

I voted parents have 80%. Now one thing you need to remember though is as you get older your parents DO start having less influence and society more. Just because (atleast most) people are more independent at 35 then at 18. You also have to remember that society effects our parents. So sometimes society effects us THROUGH our parents. In the end though everyone is differn't. It all depends on how effected by society our parents are and such. Like for example if I wanted to I could go get marred, take my wife and go have children in the mountains. That is within my ablity. If I did that I would be most of the society that my kids see. On the other extreme I could also do jack. Just let my kids roam free. Send them to school and tell their teachers to raise them. When they get back stick them in front of the tv. While neither extreme is good sadly most parents are closer to the later then the former. Which I personally think is sad.

lurkette · 07-11-2003, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by isandro

Anyway, I think that I myself have learned to deal with this inherited aspect of my personality,

This is exactly the issue when we talk about this: is "inheritance" due to genetics or learned environmental factors? Are you like your dad because you share his genes, or because you learned by watching him? Is someone depressed because they inherited a genetic tendency toward it from their parents or because they grew up around depressed people? A lot of it can, eventually, be answered empirically to some extent as we identify the genes involved in various social-emotional aspects of personality, but even then you have to break down "personality" into its components (temperament, mental health, internalizing/externalizing personality, etc.), and each component will have different levels of genetic variance as its cause. Maybe you could aggregate those components and come up with a genes vs. environment ratio, but I doubt it will ever be that simple.

isandro · 07-11-2003, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Maybe you could aggregate those components and come up with a genes vs. environment ratio, but I doubt it will ever be that simple

Agreed. Damnit, where were you when I was formulating this thing

Anyway, I guess what i was looking for is a more subjective, empirical notion of it.
I remember when I just moved out I was convinced I had nothing in common with my parents. Eight years later I'm starting to see more and more similarities. Even with my brother, who I've always considered to be my complete opposite, I seem to have alot in common.

How do you experience this?

lurkette · 07-11-2003, 12:55 PM

I have a lot in common with my siblings - we all have/had asthma, allergies, high IQs (all largely genetic) so we tended to be nerdy outcasts at school (environmental). My entire immediate family and all my mom's family have anxiety disorders (way genetic) but how we deal with it is different (environmental): my sister eats a lot, I clean my house, my mother cries. I have the same thick thighs as my mother (genetic) but I weigh a lot less because I exercise a lot (environmental).

You're dealt a particular hand in terms of your genetic tendencies and limitations (I'll never be 5'9" or have slender hips, I tend to overreact physiologically to anxiety-provoking situations) and how you deal with it is entirely environmental and personal.

Cynthetiq · 07-12-2003, 07:03 AM

hI am my father's son, and grew up in a poor part of Los Angeles. But that does not mean that I am going to not better myself than from where I came.

IMO it's not just parents or society there's also so individual desire that is part of the mix.

Quote:

Personal Pledge 32
by Larry Elder

There is no excuse for lack of effort.

Although I may be unhappy with my circumstances, and although racism and sexism and other "isms" exist, I know that things are better now than ever, and the future is even brighter.

While I may be unhappy with my circumstances, I have the power to change and improve my life. I refuse to be a victim.

Others may have been blessed with more money, better connections, a better home environment, and even better looks, but I can succeed through hard work, perseverance, and education.

I may be a product of a single- or no-parent household, but I will not hold anyone responsible for my present, or allow anyone to interfere with my future. Others succeed under conditions far worse than mine.

Some schools and teachers are better than others, but my level of effort, dedication, curiosity, and willingness to grow determine what I learn.

Ambition is the key to growth.

I will set apart some time each day to think about where I want to go, and how I intend to get there. A goal without a plan is just a wish.

"Luck" is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

If suitable role models are not nearby, I will seek them out.

A role model is someone who, through hard work and a positive outlook, has achieved.

A role model may be a parent, relative, friend, church member, judge, doctor, attorney, businessperson, or someone I’ve read about in the newspaper or seen on the local news.

I will contact role models and seek their advice, guidance, and counsel. People remember when they were my age and are eager to help.

I will seek out recommended magazines, articles, books, biographies, videos, and motivational and how-to books, and use them for education and motivation.

The light is always green. You cannot go full speed with one foot on the brake.

I am always "in school," and I will not waste my summer by failing to read about and speak to people who can inspire me.

I will avoid friendship with people who do not share my goals and commitments. Nonsupportive relationships waste time and energy.

I will not seek immediate results, as I understand life is a journey and not a destination.

I will read a newspaper each day.

I will entertain myself in ways that challenge and expand my mind. As someone said, a mind once expanded never returns to its original size.

I will pay attention to my diet and overall fitness, as they are the keys to a healthy and productive body and an enthusiastic mind.

Drugs are stupid. People who believe in drugs don’t believe in themselves.

I understand that jobs of the future require more preparation and training than ever, and I am determined to obtain the necessary background.

A well-rounded, competent student studies math and science.

People are not born "deficient in mathematical ability." Through hard work and dedication, the subject can be mastered.

It is essential that I learn to speak and write standard English. This is not "acting white," but acting smart.

A strong vocabulary is the key to communication, and I will read books on vocabulary enrichment.

I expect sometimes to be teased, even ridiculed. This will not stop me; it will only make me stronger and more determined.

I control my body and will not create a child until I am spiritually, psychologically, educationally, and financially capable of assuming this awesome responsibility.

Life is difficult. I expect setbacks and will learn from them. Struggle creates strength.

Every day is precious, and one without growth is squandered.

There is only one me, and I’m it!

Laurence A. Elder December, 1994

isandro · 07-13-2003, 05:43 AM

Thanks for your post Cynthetiq.
Personal desire certainly is a part of the mix! I was aiming to find out how predestined people would consider their lives to be. Personal desire is also something that can change direction due to experiences in life, AND change the direction of this same life.

I'm starting to see more clearly how complex the subject is- one may inherit perseverence and insight for instance, two factors that wil have much impact on individual development, while experiences in life might influence the direction this would take. Just too many factors influencing each other to just separate them.

Quote:

Drugs are stupid. People who believe in drugs don’t believe in themselves.

Hrrmmmmm...Bit short-sighted, IMO

Quote:

A well-rounded, competent student studies math and science.

People are not born "deficient in mathematical ability." Through hard work and dedication, the subject can be mastered.

I agree that a studie in science might help one's ability to think systematically, but why math?
And as far as abilities go, I think each person has an inclination towards scientific or more abstract fields of expertise. Many friends of mine (and myself too) are artists / designers, and most of us have in common that we lack business and mathematical skills.

View Poll Results: how much of your personality comes directly from your parents, how much from society?
90% parents, 10% society	0	0%
80% parents, 20% society	5	31.25%
60% parents, 40% society	5	31.25%
50% parents, 50% society	3	18.75%
40% parents, 60% society	0	0%
20% parents, 80% society	2	12.50%
10% parents, 90% society	1	6.25%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

07-11-2003, 03:57 AM	#1 (permalink)
isandro Crazy Location: Groningen, Netherlands	genes/upbringing vs. society A couple of years ago I did exactly one year of a social-educational study, and the teacher asked us this question: how much of your personality [you think] comes directly from your parents, and how much of it came from society and self-development? In other words, how much of your character was more or less defined even before you were born? So we all filled in the percentages and came out between 10/90 parents/society and 40/60. We were all about 18-21 years old, and the teacher explained to us that he did the same thing with an adult class (35-60 y/o) and the results there were exactly opposite. It's always kinda stuck in the back of my head and I got curious what you people think of this. __________________ -Life, liberty and the pursuit of hamburgers. Last edited by isandro; 07-11-2003 at 04:03 AM..

07-11-2003, 06:20 AM	#3 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	I think it's a little deterministic to look at it this way. Genetics determines very few things about a person's personality. It can set the boundaries - give you a predisposition to certain things like anxiety or empathy - but almost all of personality development happens in the interaction between your biology/genetics and your environment, or more properly, your response to your environment, which is to some extent guided by your genetics but also has huge cognitive and emotional components that are unique to the situation and to the individual's perspective. Look at identical twins - exact same genes, exact same environment, yet most develop very distinct personalities. It's not an either/or proposition - it's a both/and one. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

07-11-2003, 06:35 AM	#4 (permalink)
isandro Crazy Location: Groningen, Netherlands	uhm, that's why the percentages, right? I agree it's a combo of both factors, but what are the proportions? If you take the twins, how different could they become? What happens if you put one in a high-class intellectual home and the other with uneducated slackers? What sticks- stubborness, intellect, empathy- would these traits show up no matter what, or could someone who is not empathic by nature easily become empathic because the parents promote it? Actually, my main question, I guess, was: how much do you look like your parents? Maybe I should rephrase... __________________ -Life, liberty and the pursuit of hamburgers.

07-11-2003, 09:22 AM	#5 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	I'm just saying that I don't think you can split it out like that - it's 100% genes AND 100% environment because they work inseparably. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

07-11-2003, 04:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
TaiModan Banned Location: Nanaimo BC Canada	most of my faults are hereditary, but more of my morality is from watching and seeing the actions/reactions of those around me.

07-11-2003, 09:43 AM	#6 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i get a lot more from society than my parents. we're way different __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

07-11-2003, 11:10 AM	#7 (permalink)
isandro Crazy Location: Groningen, Netherlands	well, for instance, my dad has this weakness, he can't say no. I have this tendency aswell, but when I saw that it leads to in my parent's lives I decided to try my damndest to change that. I can't change my dad because he just smiles and shrugs and says 'yeah, i know, i know...' Anyway, I think that I myself have learned to deal with this inherited aspect of my personality, wich would imply that I'm one part less my parents, one part more myself. Or am I oversimplifying? __________________ -Life, liberty and the pursuit of hamburgers.

07-11-2003, 11:37 AM	#8 (permalink)
BBtB ClerkMan! Location: Tulsa, Ok.	I voted parents have 80%. Now one thing you need to remember though is as you get older your parents DO start having less influence and society more. Just because (atleast most) people are more independent at 35 then at 18. You also have to remember that society effects our parents. So sometimes society effects us THROUGH our parents. In the end though everyone is differn't. It all depends on how effected by society our parents are and such. Like for example if I wanted to I could go get marred, take my wife and go have children in the mountains. That is within my ablity. If I did that I would be most of the society that my kids see. On the other extreme I could also do jack. Just let my kids roam free. Send them to school and tell their teachers to raise them. When they get back stick them in front of the tv. While neither extreme is good sadly most parents are closer to the later then the former. Which I personally think is sad. __________________ Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ... "I would like about three fiddy"

07-11-2003, 12:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	I have a lot in common with my siblings - we all have/had asthma, allergies, high IQs (all largely genetic) so we tended to be nerdy outcasts at school (environmental). My entire immediate family and all my mom's family have anxiety disorders (way genetic) but how we deal with it is different (environmental): my sister eats a lot, I clean my house, my mother cries. I have the same thick thighs as my mother (genetic) but I weigh a lot less because I exercise a lot (environmental). You're dealt a particular hand in terms of your genetic tendencies and limitations (I'll never be 5'9" or have slender hips, I tend to overreact physiologically to anxiety-provoking situations) and how you deal with it is entirely environmental and personal. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France