soma

So, this girl I've been dating for a while now is pregnant (go me!).

She wants to keep it, I feel totally fucked.

I don't know how to handle myself, I found out yesterday.
I've been acting supportive around her, but inside, I'm going insane.
She's outside of my race and my parents DO NOT approve (they are old school).
Her financial situation is fucked, so mine is going to be too.
I made some horrible choices.

So yeah...

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Having Girl Problems?

The_Jazz

Dude.

Chill....

You're not a bad guy. You might actually make a decent dad. It's in your wheelhouse.

This may be a game changer. Or not. Go to the doctor with her and be sure. See what she wants to do. Go from there.

We all still love you regardless.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

SecretMethod70

Sorry to hear man :/ All you can do is make the best of it. I assume she's dead set on keeping it and not persuadable?

I assume you were using some sort of birth control at least? Mistakes happen; don't blame yourself. You can't change the past, but you can choose how you move forward.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Xerxys

^^What do you mean, "sorry"?

Congrats DUDE!!! You'll be fine. Everyone freaks out at every change but you will come to accept it. Have fun and I hope it's a boy!

Plan9

I'll be the voice of reason for a moment:

Huh? Are we really celebrating the accidentally creation of a human life that'll most certainly put this dude in a financial hurtlocker until 2035?

Also: I'm not big on the "Awwh, sheeit... anybody can be a parent!" vibe emanating from the blue-tinted smiles in this thread.

...

And does this girl have a firm grasp of reality or is she just in it for the child support megabucks? The Surprise (TM) will pretty much ruin both of your chances for higher education and automobiles newer than 1997 for the next, oh, 25 years. I won't be the only one living on tuna and Cheerios.

Sure, the above statement requires some personal information, but I'm guessing you're not a college graduate banking $65k a year.

...

I'd urge her to "fire zee missiles" and abort this mutual headache. If she wants a baby, she can make another one with someone else. Later.

It sounds like neither of you need this. Especially now. What were you doing having sex? You should have stuck to UsTwo-themed flow charts.

/ typical Plan9 anti-baby banter

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

powerclown

I say give the kid a chance at life. You may have just spawned the cure for cancer, alcoholism or depression. He/she could go on to create a cheeseburger with zero calories, create an amazing new sport, or discover a new and unlimited source of energy that will end all war and save the human race. On the other hand, he/she may follow in the footsteps of such luminaries as Pol Pot, Hannibal, Genghis Khan, Hitler or J. Robert Oppenheimer. Best of luck.

SecretMethod70

I think Plan9 covered it. Also, I don't know if you noticed, but soma isn't exactly enthused about this development.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Plan9

Wow, that was a dick sandwich. And don't demonize Oppenheimer's Bhagavad Gita moment. He got stuck with a grand case of "us versus them."

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

powerclown

Now, now Mr. Abortion...why not step gently around back and chat with Sister Mary Adoption?

Plan9

I would but I'm stuck attending to Mother Earth... poor girl is still reeling from a case of overpopulationitis.

Who needs the cure for cancer? We've got idiots popping out five kids to replace your tumor-riddled relative.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Sue

Well this thread is just full of happy, ain't it? Adoption is another possibility.

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Teg yw edrych tuag adref.

Plan9

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Punk.of.Ages

Well, dude, based on your thread about her being distant and cheating on you and such, I can tell this is definitely not the right time to be making babies...

...but, you already did. You made the decision to risk it and, unfortunately, you don't have much say in the abortion decision.

Time to suck it up and deal with the consequences of your actions, champ.

Can't really say sorry as it's not like it was out of your control, and can't really say congratulations as it's not like you are exactly stoked about it, so I'll say good luck and don't beat yourself up too much if you make a bunch of mistakes. They're kind of inevitable...

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"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

dlish

i wont say sorry, nor will i congratulate you.

but what i will tell you is that many men become great dads after reeling with the news of a pregnancy. After denying reality, and pushing the thought that they created a human being (willingly or unwillingly) in the deepest darkest dungeons of their minds, many realise that they can either have an input into the life they created and make that being into something that society finds admirable, or they can continue to deny it and create an atmosphere of resentment that will create nightmare kids and will give Plan9 more ammunition till 2035.

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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Shauk

Given my track record with women and finding out that my woman friend has been seeing another guy recently, I say you better get that shit dna tested if you can't talk her out of it.

Women piss me off lately. PEOPLE piss me off lately.

oh well, this isn't about me, though I've always identified with your posts, this is a LIFETIME thing, being a parent doesn't end at them turning 18, don't kid yourself (no pun intended)

SecretMethod70

Both Shauk and dlish bring up good points.

If she ends up carrying the child to term and keeping it, you can either make the best of it or never come to terms with it. Over time, it's likely you'll learn to see the good in all this and do your best to be a good father.

That said, if she has cheated on you in the past, I'd definitely get a DNA test done.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

lostgirl

13 years ago I got pregnant, and my boyfriend and I were not ready for a child. He insisted I get an abortion, I could not. I am not against abortions, but I knew it would haunt me forever if I did, so I gave my beautiful baby boy up for adoption. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do. I am crying right now.

I know I gave him a better life. I hand picked his parents, before he was born, out of hundreds of files, and met 6 different couples, who were unable to have children of their own. I met the perfect couple, and know in my heart he was meant to be with them, though it was a very hard thing to do.

I get pictures every once in awhile, and I see what a wonderful life he has. It also helps that I was also adopted to wonderful parents. They loved my sisters, brother, and I as if we were their own, even better than some of my friends parents. I was very loved, and so is my son.

I hope that helps.

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We're about to go through the crucible, but we'll come out the other side.
We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its changed form. - Children of Dune

LordEden

Personally, I agree with Plan, but we all know that.

The vote for adoption? That's hard, harder on her than you think. Soma (with his not caring as much for the child) really won't care in a few years, but she will. I am an adopted kid and my parents got me in a situation like Lostgirl (except I think mine was different as I believe I was a milkman baby). There are a lot of parents that could give emotional, financial, and physical support for a little baby that can't have a baby of their own. They would love a little puke factory in their life.

It's fucked up, people who don't want/can't afford kids are popping those little flesh bags out everyday and people who really want them (and are financially stable enough to really take care of one) can't have them. Oh well, shit happens.

Do what you need to do, but know this. This is for the rest of your life, so suck it up and support her in any way possible. You dropped the nut, now deal with the consequences.

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Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

soma

I'm in grad school and am on the verge of making more than that, but she's a film studies major (not even done with it yet...) so any salary I make will be cut in half. She also has piles of loans that I don't want to even think about. I hate to be so shallow and only think about money, but it's really important to me because I could get fucked out of a lot of it (although I do understand this is a result of my own actions, so really, I'm just fucking myself). Her living situation with her parents is really unstable, and I'm getting super paranoid about her trying to get pregnant so she can leech off of me. When she told me the other day, I looked deeply into her eyes, and I didn't see fear or regret, it seemed like she was satisfied with what was happening. I haven't expressed any of these suspicions to her.

Can someone explain the financial implications of this baby, and potentially child support if we do get separated?

Also, if this baby is not mine (very very unlikely) and I sign the birth certificate, does that mean I'm legally bound to the child even if it isn't mine? I was talking to some friends last night and someone mentioned something like that...

Edit: Adoptions is not something she is interested in either. She wants to have the baby and raise it too.

Edit2: Thanks for the comments. And there is still a part of me that wants to do the right thing and see this through...

Edit3: One of the worst parts about this is how my parents are very against this. It's really going to wreck our relationship.

__________________
Having Girl Problems?

Xazy

You took the fun without understanding the risk, I am sorry but you have become a creator, there is a life there now. You are responsible and you as a person should have to live up to that responsibility.

My daughter is my world until she was born I never could understand the love between a parent and a child, it is something special unique, and I hope you will see that after the child comes in to this world.

You have the right to bring up adoption, and blood test if you really feel that way, just realize the health of your child and the mother during pregnancy and stress is important for her to avoid. Also this child is yours it is your son or daughter (dare i scare you even possibly multiples). As far as salaries and income and all that wow, that is all things thought of before you decide to unzip. Right now seriously she is on such a high level she is a creator she is creating life, that is part yours, this is an incredible joyous thing.

As far as your parents you may be surprised old school or not they will be grandparents. And that fact is not going to change, they will either come to terms and enjoy their grandchild or not, that is their perogative, but I am betting on them loving their grandchild. But your parents opinion now is to late really to be a factor you made your choice by dating her, and now you must live with your actions.

In life there is consequences for what your actions, this is one big lesson, but you can either think of it as a horrible thing, or work in the next few months to accepting and desiring and loving your child, don't punish the innocent child over your concerns.

As far as the birth certificate quesion, you can get your name removed via court if you can prove you are not actually the father (but you most likely will need a lawyer though I know in some courts the county clerk can help you do it by yourself).

Mazel tov

noodle

Soma, you need to check the laws of the state in which she is going to have the baby.
For example, in Florida, women are now required to provide the name of the child's father on the birth certificate if she chooses to try to seek state financial assistance. The woman MUST pursue child support and prove that she's actively seeking it, through the courts or privately, to receive any kind of help... in theory, cause it doesn't always work. But there are a lot of things in the Florida laws that many women are not happy with, but have to do in order to get help. Good luck, man.

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Craven Morehead

Regardless of the laws, if you are the father the only right thing to do is to support your child.

Plan9

Well, I was off. My assumptions were incorrect (as per usual) but unless your bach 'n mast degrees were paid for by someone other than student loans, you're in the same boat as someone with no college degree other than better job prospects. Even if your baby-grower has a good job, if you're both digging out of debt, the time and money costs of having a kid is only going to m... well, yeah. Dead horse.

You need to rethink this statement. You're not being shallow. Money is the only issue here unless you don't want this kid for other reasons like the ability to sleep 8 hours at a stretch. Money is what takes care of you (it is why most people have a job) and money is definitely what will take care of this kid. If you're the only one bringing in the oolahs, it's a real problem. You know what's shallow? Keeping an unwanted child because of emotional weakness/family fantasy/religion/whatever. You can make another one. It's really easy. The guests of Maury and Jerry Springer prove it every week.

This is bad. She's laying eggs without a frickin' nest, bro. Her student loans? Whatever. Her living arrangements? Whatever. Job? Whatever.

She's satisfied with having a baby when neither of you are emotionally or financially ready for it? Don't confuse confidence/comfort with idiocy.

A donkey isn't zen, it's just dumb.

My parents had a hard stance against some of my choices. And after the dust settled, I always found I'd have been better off listening.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

1. It takes two to make a baby.
2. She wants to keep it.

You have two choices:

1. Stay with her and help her raise the child despite your racist parents.
2. Leave her and support her and the child financially (assuming it's yours).

The rest is just values.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

This is the philosophy that loads the trailer park. If he is the father and it's unwanted, he shouldn't have to ruin his life over one blown load.

This isn't 1710. It's 2010.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

powerclown

I hear you. I'm reminded of it everyday on my 30 minute, 5 mile drive to work everyday.

Call me socially phobic but anyplace with a population in the billions scares me a little. I don't think even the largest ant colonies in the world run into the BILLIONS.

Baraka_Guru

In 1710, child labour was legal. Our modern laws aim to prevent the suffering of children. This includes laws regarding paternal abandonment.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

dlish

yeah, well the stalks going to be delivering in 8 or so months, so there's no use telling him how he should have listened to his parents.

besides the fact that the horse has already bolted, he's an adult and needs to accept the fact that he'll be a father soon. No amount of badgering about what he should have done is going to better his situation.

It is, what it is...right?

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Baraka_Guru

The world isn't overpopulated; it simply has too many North Americans and Europeans.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

I was referring to medical technology / abortion, but sure... I'll buy that. Paternal abandonment is fun. What about maternal idiocy? Going for male-female relations / law? We live in an age where everybody is supposedly equal... except not men in this situation. Sure, it's his fault, but it still sucks.

...

You mean whitey. And I think we could knock off a few million Chinese / Indians as well. Somebody push the red button. Africa will take care of itself.

...

Oh, yessir. Girl is pregnant. -> Big problem. -> Do what it takes not to ruin your life.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Cimarron29414

Dude, doing what it takes not to ruin your life is NOT fucking a girl that you wouldn't want to be the mother of your child. That was the only stop gap measure built into our society and he dismissed it.

P.S. Triple negative sentences ROCK!

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Xerxys

I bookmarked this thread a while ago ...

hunnychile

At my job in HR a year or so ago, I was shocked how many single young guys were earning $450. a week and only taking home between $200-325 a week because they were being hit up by the State for child support payments. The State takes it directly from the employer, you know. Some of these guys were getting hit up for more than one kid with two different women.

One guy had to pay for 8 kids and it was going to 5 different women!! (No shit). He once joked to me and the director of accounting --- that he felt like a slave laborer.

Wisely, I just smiled and kept on walking....

__________________
"I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

genuinegirly

I have a difficult time understanding the mentality that goes into being immediately at peace with any unplanned pregnancy. I wonder if in fact it was not entirely unplanned on her part.

Her Parents:
You've mentioned that they're unstable. Are you anticipating little to no help and support in this matter?

Your Parents:
Is the main thing holding you back from loving this woman your parents' disapproval? The prospect of a grandchild in their near future might provide them with enough of a catalyst to result in a critical change of heart. Maybe not, but it's possible that your parents only need to see a working, loving interracial relationship.

Finances:
Presumably when she accepted the student loans she had every intention of paying them off. For some, they take this on knowingly as a lifetime burden so they can study and practice their area of passion. Hopefully she has every intention of working her bum off when she is finished with school so she can eventually pay off those debts. If her debt is entirely in student loans, you have much less to worry about than you may think. It's usually a good way to build credit, and generally involve low or no interest rates. If you dive into her finances you may find that you're much better off than you anticipate. On the other hand, if she chose to pay for school with credit card debt (no joke, I've met someone who did this) then you might just be up a creek.

During the pregnancy, many women are unable to think clearly. You may want to use this as an opportunity to ask her permission to take over paying her bills, and in the process glance at her finances and to see if they're salvagable.

Since you are personally in school and presumably living off a stipend-income at best, you won't be able to support her the way she apparently dreams you can. Provide her with emotional support, and make sure that your child is in a healthy environment, but make it clear that everything is for your child. You may want to look into the support programs that are available in your area to young single moms. Check non-profits and local churches, too. Assure her comfort from outside sources as much as possible, this will relieve your stress as well as your financial burden.

She may attempt to pursuade you to marry her before the child is born. You don't seem ready for that kind of a commitment. Rather than promise her a lifetime that you're not sure you want to give, encourage her to be a single mother for at least a year. If an undying love and partnership develops from the birth of this child, then you can plan that wedding, knowing that you're confident with your decision.

Her Mental Health
On a similar note, she may not be able to keep up in school. She may not feel motivated to go back to school after the child is born. Do not take this as a shift in ethics or some sort of religious preference, but please see it as it truly is - a plea for help and a sign of post-partum depression. Please do her and yourself a favor by encouraging her to resume some semblance of a motivated happy life after the baby is born. Do not let that child suck away her life and consume all of her thoughts. I've seen far too many young women fall into this trap and wind up hopelessly lost, with regrets about not finishing their education, with their only achievement being their healthy children. Having a baby is not her free pass to your lifelong assistance - especially since she took out those student loans - she needs to finish her degree and find a healthy line of work, which will be mentally stimulating as well as financially rewarding.


----
Any way you look at it, you're in for a hell of a ride, Soma. Good luck to you.

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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Pearl Trade

Abort the mission, bro.

I'm gonna go with Plan9 on this one. Do what you can, when you can, to get off the hook. I'm not telling you to sneak her some pennyroyal tea, I'm saying that you should let her know of all her options, and try to convince her to side with you.

Whatever choice is made, prepare for lots of crying and emotional pain. Stress at it's finest is the situation you're in.

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

Wes Mantooth

Sorry to hear it, I've never been there but I've seen a few friends go through this and its never easy. I will say (based on what I've seen from those I know) that if you're a level headed intelligent person you'll find a way to navigate the waters and come out okay on the other side. It sucks and it wont be easy but but where there's a will (even if its forced on you) there's a way. Best of luck.

Okay the following has nothing to do with Soma or his GF I don't know them or what kind of parents they will make but MY GOD do I hate hearing things like this. You have a mother who has basically decided the fathers financial lot in life for the 20 years for a simple mistake while bringing a child into the world that neither one is sure they either want or can take care of. The child, unplanned for gets the short end of the stick because the parents have no intention of trying to build a family, don't have the financial ability to provide or worse resent the he/she fucked up their own lives and feels the brunt of all this through out childhood. Before long Dad gets sick of the responsibility and splits, mom can't afford to pay and suddenly junior becomes everyone else's responsibility/problem. Now I know all of that is a generalization and an unplanned for child can have a great life with great parents. But it does happen (a lot from what I've seen in my own life) and I wish more people would think about it before going through with an unplanned pregnancy, its not fair to anybody involved if neither of you are ready.

Back on topic Soma I'd do what I can to try and avoid going through with all of this if you or your GF don't feel ready, at the very least have a very, VERY long talk about your options. If you can't avoid it then you'll have to take it on the chin for the sake of the little one (who has no say in this) and do the best job you can to provide for and raise him/her.

Again best of luck and the above rant wasn't directed personally at you.

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Cimarron29414

girly -

Great post. Very positive. I confess I'm having a difficult time mustering anything happy to say about this. I'm feeling like a grandfather looking at those damn kids and their rock music.

What exactly does a "film studies major" do for a living as a graduate - Blockbuster cashier?

What the fuck? Student loans to get a film studies degree?!?!? Clearly someone whose parents pushed them into college as "the next step in life", as opposed to someone with true ambition and wanted to pursue a career.

Sorry, this is all fairly harsh. I'm sure that degree will have a huge ROI in the real world - even with the 4.5% interest on the 20 year student loan.

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Plan9

Not to get too into the "college is a piece of paper" realm, but it has been my experience that it is.

I didn't matter that I had a degree in the specific field I was going into... only that I had a degree.

The company gladly accepts people with any type of degree. Baraka is just as good as Plan9.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Cimarron29414

We all know that's not true.


In summary:



Your life - "if you like it, then shouldn't stick your dick in there. If you like it, then you shouldn't stick your dick in there. Oh, oh, OOOhhhhh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh...."

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Baraka_Guru

*Ahem* I have a degree and a diploma—just not the income to reflect that.

Compensation all comes down to the reward for the value you provide. A film studies graduate can work in the culture industry—not necessarily the film industry. Many, many people don't end up doing things directly related to their diplomas/degrees. She might even get into PR. PR pays well. It's about going after the money and getting paid for providing a service of value.

Do as I say not as I do.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot