Can someone love you again? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

LAW2 · 07-13-2009, 07:33 AM

My wife and I are having problems. We have been married for 9 years and have been together for 16. This year has been bad with increased debt, less pay, the stress of two children, her going back to work, etc. I ignored her feelings and needs and buried myself in my work. She warned me that I was losing her, but I was too stupid to actually hear what she was saying to me. Now I know.

I have done a total 180 and have pulled myself back into the family and bettered myself. She says I now do everything she wanted me to do back then, but her feelings for me have changed. She loves me but is not in love with me anymore. We have been to counseling a few times and she still has some resentment towards me. She prefers not to think about it and survive day by day, but I’m afraid we won’t get any better. We have long talks and cry a lot when we do so there are still feelings there. Neither one of us has ever cheated on the other.

I know marriages ebb and flow, but I don’t think most get to this point. If I didn’t tell you these things you would never know this about us. We still kiss (peck on the lips), say I love you, sleep in the same bed, do things for each other, encourage one another, and do stuff with the kids together.

I love my wife, I really do. I love my kids. I want her to be in love with me again and I want to live the rest of my life with her.

My question is in your experience do you think that’s possible?

Plan9 · 07-13-2009, 07:34 AM

I was married for about 15 minutes once, but I have friends that have been married for a zillion years so I'll channel their groovy vibes.

This "love but not in love" bullshit is total shrink psychobabble. She is what she does, and if she's with you but doesn't feel something... she's still with you. Sure, it's hard to leave people, but the divorce rate shows that its far from rare. I figure she's still with you because she wants it to work out.

I don't like relationship ultimatums anymore. I don't recommend them at all. My experience with them has been total poopoo. Her dropping the "you're losing me" line just rubs me all the wrong ways. Was it a cry for help, a warning, a statement from a concerned lover? It sounds like you were being a responsible husband/father by taking care of the bottom chunk of Maslow's Hierarchy, the chunk that isn't appreciated until it's deficient. It's like, "Sorry, Daddy has to work for a living or we can love each other in a cardboard box. How ya like dem applies?" The important thing is that you realized that the balance of work/family was off and shifted back. She obviously feels hurt by the period of you-weren't-there and I believe you need to focus on that by showing her how much better things are now. You didn't promise her a rose garden, as they say, but you realized how gone you were and made changes because you care.

You're obviously both very committed. You've gotta lotta time together, bro. I think recovery is possible until one person breaks outta the commitment. You banging the secretary or her drinking a bottle of Wild Turkey for dinner during the month of August are probably dealbreakers. As long as the hard exterior crust of trust is there, you can rebuild the emotional soup that is the lovey-dovey stuff. I'd recommend getting her flowers and taking her out someplace nice and saying your bit about commitment and durability.

I think couples get this kinda threadbare because lovey-dovey is hard to come by in These Economic Times (TM) when everybody is treading water in the Practical World (TM). I remember being a callus dick to a partner because I was slamming college plus-plus-plus and really worried about survival numbers (money) and my all-consuming grades. It isn't an excuse, but it's close. And sometimes people just need to "man the fuck up." This "you and me forever" shit is hard. Really hard. It isn't about the good times, it's all about the bad times and sticking to the promise you made a squillion years ago when you got married.

Also: Hope isn't a policy, so make sure you ante up the communication with your wife. As the illustrious Ratbastid often says, "Have you told her what you've told us?"

DaniGirl · 07-13-2009, 07:46 AM

Of course it is possible, you both are still there and trying. It sounds like you are on the right track and just need to keep working. You should keep showing her that you have always loved her. She felt let down, and let me tell you women may forgive but we never forget. The hurt is still there and she will need to work threw it.

I think you should try to get away from the kids and the house at least one day a week. Sometimes staying in the house just reminds you of the past, bills that need to be paid etc. It doesn't need to be expensive, just a walk in the park so you can talk.

Now I know that I have only been married for 5 years, but I do know what you are going threw, me and my husband have been threw problems. Mainly money. Money always stresses out marriages. Me and my husband got married really young and now have three little girls. We work so hard to keep from fighting about money or any other issue. But it is hard.

I really hope the best for you!!!

Anonymous Member · 07-13-2009, 09:53 AM

I went though this same thing. Married 8 years, 1 child. We had plenty of money, that was never a stress.

He ignored my feelings and needs and buried himself in his work and the computer. I warned him that he was losing me, but he never really listened.

He eventually started trying, but only after it was too late. My feelings had changed. I love him, but I'm not in love with him anymore. No matter how hard I have tried, I have not been able to feel love for him like I once had. I can't see myself with him ever again. That was over 3 years ago.

It's funny cause, if I went back to him I would live very well, as I said we never had to worry about money, and he makes even more now. He still has hope and wants me back, but I'm just not in love with him and can't find a way to feel that way for him again, and money can't by love or happiness.

I hope this doesn't discourage you, because everyone is different, and she still could find her way back.

This is more of a warning to others to listen when someone tells you something is wrong. Don't wait till it is too late, don't wait at all, or you can loose it all.

jewels · 07-13-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous Member

He eventually started trying, but only after it was too late. My feelings had changed. I love him, but I'm not in love with him anymore. No matter how hard I have tried, I have not been able to feel love for him like I once had.

Ditto my last marriage of nearly 14 years.

If she's willing to stay to try to see if you can rekindle the feelings together, go for it with all the gusto you've got. Keep going to counseling and see if the two of you can find happiness again.

But if either of you become miserable trying to please one another or make it happen when it is too late, end it sooner, rather than later. In my case, I waited way too long. You both deserve happiness and your kids will see through any facade the two of you show. Working together to improve things -- that's a great thing for the kids to witness. But living in misery is not something you want to condone for your children.

LAW2 · 07-13-2009, 03:07 PM

I really appreciate everyone’s comments.

I was hoping there would be some words of encouragement and some positive experiences. They give me hope. I realize things might not work out the way I want but she deserves all my efforts.

I thought that we were bullet proof and an example for others to look to, but I took her for granted and lost focus of what was important. I have learned that no marriage is perfect and problem free but I’m willing to do what it takes because she is that special to me.

Hopefully more will respond and this thread will help others too.

Plan9 · 07-13-2009, 03:31 PM

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Shell · 07-13-2009, 04:28 PM

Law, it took your marriage a long time to get as low as it is...so it will take some time to come back up....but it can happen with patience. Continue along the path you have now chosen...it's good and she will see that you are sincere over time...it will just take time for her to believe.

...be consistent with the "new you", stay confident and relax in the knowledge that she will someday realize that you are the man she originally fell in love with. By relaxing, you will not appear pushy...you will appear natural and sincere and true to yourself and to her.

She's a lucky woman to have a man like you that loves her so completely...it may take awhile but she'll realize that.

LAW2 · 07-15-2009, 06:14 AM

Threads fall away quickly and I could use some more feedback. I know sometimes threads get read and if somone says what you would say you choose not to comment, but in this case I ask that you reconsider.

I have shared this thread with my wife and she was quite surprised with the responses, specially since women had commented.

PonyPotato · 07-15-2009, 06:29 AM

In my (limited) experience, it seems as though if one person is hurting a lot, and for enough time, it will take magic to get back to where you were. And a lot of it.

I've been on both sides of this. Having my feelings continuously stomped on and needs/wants not met by a partner who essentially told me to fuck off constantly. Stayed with him longer than I should have, because I was used to it, but was always unhappy. In a "try again" scenario, I broke a partner's heart a couple years ago, and trying again, he could never fully open back up to me. It just didn't work, though we both wanted it to and tried, he just couldn't find a place where those feelings would return.

Good luck, but I'm not one to be optimistic with these scenarios.

Iliftrocks · 07-16-2009, 10:05 AM

Give it your best, and she might come back around. It's worth it to work as hard as you can, because believe me, you'll feel like a failure if it ends, more so if you didn't try very hard. Good luck

LAW2 · 08-05-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous Member

I went though this same thing. Married 8 years, 1 child. We had plenty of money, that was never a stress.

He ignored my feelings and needs and buried himself in his work and the computer. I warned him that he was losing me, but he never really listened.

He eventually started trying, but only after it was too late. My feelings had changed. I love him, but I'm not in love with him anymore. No matter how hard I have tried, I have not been able to feel love for him like I once had. I can't see myself with him ever again.

This is more of a warning to others to listen when someone tells you something is wrong. Don't wait till it is too late, don't wait at all, or you can loose it all.

It looks like Anon Member was right. We are going to try a two month seperation, but I feel as if its just another step out the door.

Please don't ever take someone else's love for granted and assume that its just a bump in the road. I thought being married was forever and never considered she didn't.

Plan9 · 08-05-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAW2

I thought being married was forever and never considered she didn't.

Ugh, that really hurts. Best of luck.

genuinegirly · 08-05-2009, 12:40 PM

This is a brutal slap across the head - good luck with the separation. I hope that you're able to regain her heart.

noodle · 08-05-2009, 01:53 PM

Yes, they can.
But it takes effort. You have to be willing to make it and so does she.
You need to miss your partner every once in awhile sometimes, to be reminded how much they matter. Whether for a few hours, or a few days. And if you don't, then there's an isssue.
It can happen.

Cynthetiq · 08-05-2009, 02:01 PM

I was just thinking about that as I was reading this NYTimes article. I believe it's not even that they stopped loving you...

Quote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fa...02love.html?em

August 2, 2009
Modern Love
Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear
By LAURA A. MUNSON

LET’S say you have what you believe to be a healthy marriage. You’re still friends and lovers after spending more than half of your lives together. The dreams you set out to achieve in your 20s — gazing into each other’s eyes in candlelit city bistros when you were single and skinny — have for the most part come true.

Two decades later you have the 20 acres of land, the farmhouse, the children, the dogs and horses. You’re the parents you said you would be, full of love and guidance. You’ve done it all: Disneyland, camping, Hawaii, Mexico, city living, stargazing.

Sure, you have your marital issues, but on the whole you feel so self-satisfied about how things have worked out that you would never, in your wildest nightmares, think you would hear these words from your husband one fine summer day: “I don’t love you anymore. I’m not sure I ever did. I’m moving out. The kids will understand. They’ll want me to be happy.”

But wait. This isn’t the divorce story you think it is. Neither is it a begging-him-to-stay story. It’s a story about hearing your husband say “I don’t love you anymore” and deciding not to believe him. And what can happen as a result.

Here’s a visual: Child throws a temper tantrum. Tries to hit his mother. But the mother doesn’t hit back, lecture or punish. Instead, she ducks. Then she tries to go about her business as if the tantrum isn’t happening. She doesn’t “reward” the tantrum. She simply doesn’t take the tantrum personally because, after all, it’s not about her.

Let me be clear: I’m not saying my husband was throwing a child’s tantrum. No. He was in the grip of something else — a profound and far more troubling meltdown that comes not in childhood but in midlife, when we perceive that our personal trajectory is no longer arcing reliably upward as it once did. But I decided to respond the same way I’d responded to my children’s tantrums. And I kept responding to it that way. For four months.

“I don’t love you anymore. I’m not sure I ever did.”

His words came at me like a speeding fist, like a sucker punch, yet somehow in that moment I was able to duck. And once I recovered and composed myself, I managed to say, “I don’t buy it.” Because I didn’t.

He drew back in surprise. Apparently he’d expected me to burst into tears, to rage at him, to threaten him with a custody battle. Or beg him to change his mind.

So he turned mean. “I don’t like what you’ve become.”

Gut-wrenching pause. How could he say such a thing? That’s when I really wanted to fight. To rage. To cry. But I didn’t.

Instead, a shroud of calm enveloped me, and I repeated those words: “I don’t buy it.”

You see, I’d recently committed to a non-negotiable understanding with myself. I’d committed to “The End of Suffering.” I’d finally managed to exile the voices in my head that told me my personal happiness was only as good as my outward success, rooted in things that were often outside my control. I’d seen the insanity of that equation and decided to take responsibility for my own happiness. And I mean all of it.

My husband hadn’t yet come to this understanding with himself. He had enjoyed many years of hard work, and its rewards had supported our family of four all along. But his new endeavor hadn’t been going so well, and his ability to be the breadwinner was in rapid decline. He’d been miserable about this, felt useless, was losing himself emotionally and letting himself go physically. And now he wanted out of our marriage; to be done with our family.

But I wasn’t buying it.

I said: “It’s not age-appropriate to expect children to be concerned with their parents’ happiness. Not unless you want to create co-dependents who’ll spend their lives in bad relationships and therapy. There are times in every relationship when the parties involved need a break. What can we do to give you the distance you need, without hurting the family?”

“Huh?” he said.

“Go trekking in Nepal. Build a yurt in the back meadow. Turn the garage studio into a man-cave. Get that drum set you’ve always wanted. Anything but hurting the children and me with a reckless move like the one you’re talking about.”

Then I repeated my line, “What can we do to give you the distance you need, without hurting the family?”

“Huh?”

“How can we have a responsible distance?”

“I don’t want distance,” he said. “I want to move out.”

My mind raced. Was it another woman? Drugs? Unconscionable secrets? But I stopped myself. I would not suffer.

Instead, I went to my desk, Googled “responsible separation” and came up with a list. It included things like: Who’s allowed to use what credit cards? Who are the children allowed to see you with in town? Who’s allowed keys to what?

I looked through the list and passed it on to him.

His response: “Keys? We don’t even have keys to our house.”

I remained stoic. I could see pain in his eyes. Pain I recognized.

“Oh, I see what you’re doing,” he said. “You’re going to make me go into therapy. You’re not going to let me move out. You’re going to use the kids against me.”

“I never said that. I just asked: What can we do to give you the distance you need ... ”

“Stop saying that!”

Well, he didn’t move out.

Instead, he spent the summer being unreliable. He stopped coming home at his usual six o’clock. He would stay out late and not call. He blew off our entire Fourth of July — the parade, the barbecue, the fireworks — to go to someone else’s party. When he was at home, he was distant. He wouldn’t look me in the eye. He didn’t even wish me “Happy Birthday.”

But I didn’t play into it. I walked my line. I told the kids: “Daddy’s having a hard time as adults often do. But we’re a family, no matter what.” I was not going to suffer. And neither were they.

MY trusted friends were irate on my behalf. “How can you just stand by and accept this behavior? Kick him out! Get a lawyer!”

I walked my line with them, too. This man was hurting, yet his problem wasn’t mine to solve. In fact, I needed to get out of his way so he could solve it.

I know what you’re thinking: I’m a pushover. I’m weak and scared and would put up with anything to keep the family together. I’m probably one of those women who would endure physical abuse. But I can assure you, I’m not. I load 1,500-pound horses into trailers and gallop through the high country of Montana all summer. I went through Pitocin-induced natural childbirth. And a Caesarean section without follow-up drugs. I am handy with a chain saw.

I simply had come to understand that I was not at the root of my husband’s problem. He was. If he could turn his problem into a marital fight, he could make it about us. I needed to get out of the way so that wouldn’t happen.

Privately, I decided to give him time. Six months.

I had good days, and I had bad days. On the good days, I took the high road. I ignored his lashing out, his merciless jabs. On bad days, I would fester in the August sun while the kids ran through sprinklers, raging at him in my mind. But I never wavered. Although it may sound ridiculous to say “Don’t take it personally” when your husband tells you he no longer loves you, sometimes that’s exactly what you have to do.

Instead of issuing ultimatums, yelling, crying or begging, I presented him with options. I created a summer of fun for our family and welcomed him to share in it, or not — it was up to him. If he chose not to come along, we would miss him, but we would be just fine, thank you very much. And we were.

And, yeah, you can bet I wanted to sit him down and persuade him to stay. To love me. To fight for what we’ve created. You can bet I wanted to.

But I didn’t.

I barbecued. Made lemonade. Set the table for four. Loved him from afar.

And one day, there he was, home from work early, mowing the lawn. A man doesn’t mow his lawn if he’s going to leave it. Not this man. Then he fixed a door that had been broken for eight years. He made a comment about our front porch needing paint. Our front porch. He mentioned needing wood for next winter. The future. Little by little, he started talking about the future.

It was Thanksgiving dinner that sealed it. My husband bowed his head humbly and said, “I’m thankful for my family.”

He was back.

And I saw what had been missing: pride. He’d lost pride in himself. Maybe that’s what happens when our egos take a hit in midlife and we realize we’re not as young and golden anymore.

When life’s knocked us around. And our childhood myths reveal themselves to be just that. The truth feels like the biggest sucker-punch of them all: it’s not a spouse or land or a job or money that brings us happiness. Those achievements, those relationships, can enhance our happiness, yes, but happiness has to start from within. Relying on any other equation can be lethal.

My husband had become lost in the myth. But he found his way out. We’ve since had the hard conversations. In fact, he encouraged me to write about our ordeal. To help other couples who arrive at this juncture in life. People who feel scared and stuck. Who believe their temporary feelings are permanent. Who see an easy out, and think they can escape.

My husband tried to strike a deal. Blame me for his pain. Unload his feelings of personal disgrace onto me.

But I ducked. And I waited. And it worked.

lostgirl · 08-05-2009, 03:54 PM

Great post Cynthetiq. It is inspiring.

I'm sorry things are not going so well LAW2. Reading Cyns post will give you some insight I hope and maybe help you though this.

The only advice I can give is to show her your there and don't become angry and cold.

I wish you the best.

LAW2 · 08-07-2009, 12:47 PM

There must have been some truth to Cynthetiq's article because after reading it I told my wife that we were moving too fast and that I thought her moving out was not a good idea. She agreed and didn't even argue. Thank you all.

Cynthetiq · 08-07-2009, 12:51 PM

That's great!

I was actually talking to someone about this article today. It's important to remember this is all about communication and patience. I don't think many people put too much stock in those things today. They want instant answer and instant gratification. Relationships don't work that way...

genuinegirly · 08-07-2009, 01:21 PM

What delightful news!

noodle · 08-07-2009, 01:48 PM

i put it on my facebook. I have a lot of friends that need to read this.
Thanks, Cyn.

And positive karma, Law2

Plan9 · 08-07-2009, 02:16 PM

Yeah, the article Cynth posted really beat me down good. Makes me believe that couples can work if they both embrace the suck.

LAW2 · 09-06-2009, 07:36 PM

Lots of details that I won’t go into, I’m too tired to type it all out. I have maintained hope through all of this. Hope that we would both work on it and rebuild our marriage. I still love her.

I was snooping through her emails in early August and found reservations for her and another person to go out of town to see a show and stay several nights in a swanky loft with just one bed in late October.

I hoped that maybe she was thinking that we would be better by then and it would be some kind of get away. Well I kept the secret for a little while and then asked her if she would be comfortable going away with me. She said no. So, that means her trip is not for us. Who could it be? Maybe one of her girl friends, and she still has time to cancel the trip, right?

Well Sunday 8/30 I find a birthday card that she had written to her “best friend”. This friend happens to be a guy and someone I no longer trusted and told her that she was having an emotional affair with. She never could bring herself to break off the relationship and in the card she says how much she loves him and can’t wait to go to the show with him. Well that seals it. The trip isn’t for me but for her and some other guy. I confront her with everything I know and she confesses that she started having feelings for him back in April. So all through our counseling she was holding back and basically leading me on. For months I tried my best to make amends and show her how much she meant to me.

Now she’s moving out, which she was going to do anyways, and I was for it thinking that I would give her some space and she’ll come back to me. In reality though he is going to live there with her. How shitty is that?

Basically every paranoid thing that I accused her of was true. The sad part is I thought I could still forgive her and love her for the rest of my life. That was until tonight. She went into the office to work after hours and do some paper work. I went up there to see if she was alone and seeing no other car I began to leave. On a whim I peered into the windows and saw him and her in there together. They were working innocently at first, but then he begins to give her a back rub. When she gets up to fetch some papers off the printer she rubs his shoulders and leans over and gives him a kiss. A kiss that as her husband I could see there were feelings there.
I later follow them to were his car is parked and see them embrace and kiss some more. Then she comes home and pretends like work was so hard with no mention of her company.

It hurts so badly. I love her and hate her all at the same time. Now I have to be uber cool about it because we have kids together (3&5) and we’ll see each other almost every day.

If it wasn't for the lunesta I took I would drive the 2-hours to my parents house to sleep.

Signed betrayed, mad, sad, hopless and unloved.

Anormalguy · 09-06-2009, 08:06 PM

LAW2, that sucks. I don't know you and your wife, but it sounds as though reconcilliation would be very difficult, at least at this time.

You did your best to right a wrong. She made her decision, and that's something that you're both of you are going to have to deal with. However it turns out, I wish the best for you and the children.

genuinegirly · 09-06-2009, 08:12 PM

She is terrible for leading you on. This is an incredibly disturbing chain of events. I'm sorry that you have to deal with this pain.

redsneaker · 09-06-2009, 08:51 PM

Wow, I am so sorry to hear about this turn of events. I was really hoping your situation would turn out better, from the updates you had given us.

I know that you're feeling sad and mad and angry and unloved - know that's normal. While it sucks to be led on by your spouse, you will get through this. As the days go by it will get easier. You probably won't ever forget, but that's ok. Try to surround yourself with people who love and care about you - they will help you walk through this fire.

Keep us updated if you wish. I will try to keep checkin' in to see how you're doing.

Hope you can get some sleep tonight.

Poppinjay · 09-07-2009, 05:18 AM

So, in other words when she said she loved you but was no longer "in love" with you, it meant that she's dedicated to the shiny new excitement, but not the day to day work of a marriage.

I'll echo Crompsin, the line about love but not in love, is a bullshit line. It either means she loves you but doesn't mind cheating and hurting you horribly - in other words does NOT love you, or is mainly attracted to the earliness of a new relationship where most things go right and she knock's off a day of work to have a fun date, and the realness hasn't set in.

I hope the kids are okay.

amonkie · 09-07-2009, 06:13 AM

While this sucks, she is not entirely at fault - What kind of sign is it that you went snooping? I've heard the line don't snoop if you can't handle what you find.

That aside... Hopefully this will be the best outcome for everyone's mental sanity.

LAW2 · 09-07-2009, 06:16 AM

This board and the people, while strangers, have been so helpful and comforting. I have never had to go through the swings of emotions like this. One minute, sad and full of self pity and times, like now, I'm all cried out and quite strong. Right now I'm confident that I will find happiness, that I will be the best dad that I can be and that there will be a woman one day that is a better mate for me than the first.

Theres no point in being mad. What's done is done. We will still have to see each other almost every day and we will always be parents. However difficult, Ill words can never be spoken of each other to the kids.

The kids are 3&5 so they don't understand what's happening. We've told them that some nights they'll sleep at mommy's and some nights daddy's and also grand ma's. I don't know for sure but we plan on doing stuff (soccer, dance, etc) as a family.

If the tables were turned she has said that she would not be handeling it at well as I am. I feel that it is my burden to bear to be the better person and not allow this to get ugly. There are the lives and happiness of my childrens and my own to consider.

She may find happiness and what she's looking for and she may not and I have to remember that its not of my concern. I can't make her happy and its not my job to do so.

Even at my age I have a lot of growing up and learning to do.

Again just another word of thanks for all those that have paused and offered your thoughts and advice.

warrrreagl · 09-07-2009, 07:24 AM

I'm sorry I got to this thread late. First of all, I've been married twice. The first marriage doesn't count, because it never should have happened, and I was standing at the church on my wedding day trying to think of ways to get out of it. It lasted a year. I haven't heard a word from her in almost 30 years, so that one is done.

On the day I married Grancey, my father finally gave me real "married guy" advice. He said, "Marriage is a lot of hard work. It ain't easy." Still being young, dumb, and stupid, I thought he was nuts. Instead, it's been the most cogent thing anyone has ever said to me about marriage. And it took me far too long to understand it. Thank God Grancey is who she is, or my ass would have been tossed a long time ago.

Every. Single. Marriage. Is. Different.

You can NEVER look at someone else's marriage and say, "Hey, they look happy. We're not happy. Let's do what they do and then we'll be happy. And if we were truly happy, we'd be doing exactly what they're doing." That will fail absolutely 100% of the time. Also, you can't ever look at Section D, Paragraph 19 of the Successful Marriage Manual to figure out anything. You can't go to marriage.com and check out the FAX on fixing a broken marriage. You can't drive your marriage over to the mechanic and have him hook it up to the computer diagnostics. There is no therapist, no book, no seminar, no priest, no fortune teller, and no best friend who will EVER be able to truly help you with your own marriage. It has to come from the two of you. And my father was right - it's hard work, and it ain't easy. Nothing worthwhile ever is.

Keeping Grancey from kicking me to the curb has been the most successful thing I've ever done.

LAW2 · 09-07-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amonkie

While this sucks, she is not entirely at fault - What kind of sign is it that you went snooping? I've heard the line don't snoop if you can't handle what you find.

That aside... Hopefully this will be the best outcome for everyone's mental sanity.

I totally agree. I felt terrible snooping and when I confronted her with it I told her to change her passwords and everything. As a married couple we had and kept no secrets. Email, bank accounts, cell phone; everything was shared and open. I never ever did not trust her until this year.

You see snooping caused me a lot of pain because I had to deal with what I knew without telling her. However, had I not snooped I would have remained clueless as to her true intentions and would have continued trying and hoping to save our marriage.

In the end it was the right thing for me to do. She admitted that while she felt slightly violated she would have done the same thing but far worse.

While painful I have not lost faith in marriage. I loved being being married. I just took it for granted. My next wife will never be put in the same position or have any doubts.

Plan9 · 09-07-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amonkie

While this sucks, she is not entirely at fault - What kind of sign is it that you went snooping? I've heard the line don't snoop if you can't handle what you find.

Uh... uhm, wow, your logic totally escapes me here. How is anybody supposed to "win," again? He can't "handle" the cheating?

What? The cheating now or the cheating later? It's cheating, right? He expressed his concern before snooping. Do the ends justify the means or not?

Meh, here's the scenarios as I see them:

Scenario A: Partner cheating, don't snoop because you're a Good Human (TM), you get totally blindsided, go on Bourbon diet for the next month.

Scenario B: Partner cheating, you snoop / get tipped off by the odd cock taste in your mouth after you kiss them at night, prepare yourself / confront them about it, threaten to sue their ass because they know nothing of the law and they're going to try to ditch the kids and keep the cat.

Scenario C: Partner cheating, you go all ignorance'd, relationship with cheater continues for X time. Herpes could make a guest appearance if you're lucky.

...

I've said before that I'm all "arms wide open" / Strike Face - I'm A Softy in relationships but I'm still way confused here. Not a genius, but let's say for sake of emo example that I've had a few partners cheat on me before and that I was totally blindsided by both separate revelations even though all the "Heh, I'm totally fucking around on you" signs were there in my face like bling in a rap video. How did I miss this? Was it because I trusted my partner implicitly?

Am I dumb? Was I wrong? Which is the lesser evil here? Ignorance or snooping? Are we foolish to plead ignorance until our wittle hearts essplode again?

Hell, I'm just trying to figure out some kinda Lessons Learned bit from this thread. Is there anything to take away from something like this? I had so much hope that the OP would resolve his communication issues... maybe through a cool down period... only to watch him get nuked. Downright painful.
...

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAW2

However, had I not snooped I would have remained clueless as to her true intentions and would have continued trying and hoping to save our marriage.

Amen. It is not the thing that hurts, it is the hope of the thing. What do you feel like you have learned from any of this? I really would like to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAW2

In the end it was the right thing for me to do. She admitted that while she felt slightly violated she would have done the same thing but far worse.

She felt violated, huh? Ouch.

...

Note to self: Reading and participating in this thread totally doesn't aid any potential recovery process. It seems to reinforce established notions.

LAW2 · 09-08-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Amen. It is not the thing that hurts, it is the hope of the thing. What do you feel like you have learned from any of this? I really would like to know.

Crompsin I hope that this thread does not discourage you. While I am/was/will be in pain I can see some light. Warrrreagl said it “Every. Single. Marriage. Is. Different.” What I learned may not apply to you or anyone else.
Some of the things I learned relate only to me and how to be true to myself, to be a better person and areas I need to grow in.

What I have learned that anyone can use is as follows.

Life is hard.
Relationships require work from both people.
Communication is key.
Never take your relationship for granted.
Never think you know what the other person is thinking or feeling. Communication again.
Always continue to grow as a person and an individual.
Loving someone and being loved in return is the best thing in the world. It is worth all the risks and pain that you may experience.
Don’t live your life in denial. I ignored the early signs and didn’t address them until after she found someone.
People make mistakes. It’s whether you can learn from them or not that is important.
Breakups and divorce are not failures and are not the end.
Forgiveness goes a long way in healing the heart. I could be mad and hurt by all this but what does that do for me? I have to move on.
You make your own happiness.
If you are happy you are more attractive.
Nobody deserves anything. You have to earn it, work for it or make it on your own.
Friends and strangers (like the people on this board) can be quite comforting and helpful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

She felt violated, huh? Ouch.

I understand her feelings. I was going through her stuff, purse, email, etc. But prior to this we were totally trusting of one another and had open access to everything. The feeling that she got was because she now had something to hide and she got caught.
...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Note to self: Reading and participating in this thread totally doesn't aid any potential recovery process. It seems to reinforce established notions.

Recovery of the marriage...No. Personal recovery and the pursuit happiness...Yes.

warrrreagl · 09-08-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAW2

Recovery of the marriage...No. Personal recovery and the pursuit happiness...Yes.

Bingo! Although you may not be responsible for everything that happens to you, you are definitely responsible for how you handle it. Learning from all of this is the biggest step you can take in preparing for your next relationship.

Nothing else matters in life except relationships. That's really all there is. The rest is fluff and distraction.

Toaster126 · 09-08-2009, 12:53 PM

I'm proud of you Law2, for whatever that means. Good luck.

LAW2 · 02-26-2010, 07:52 PM

It's been a long time since I've been on here even longer since I last posted. Not really much to say except that I'm still alive.
My wife and I should be divorced on 3/24 if all goes well. The divorce is uncontested and we have been very friendly to each other. No lawyers, did the paper work together, 50/50 split. We still see each other often do to kid drop off and such.

It's very painful to be cheated on. You have these thoughts of inadequacies but really it's not my concern. She is living with the other guy and even though she says she never did anything with him until she moved out I don't believe it. My mom pointed out that you don't share your bed with someone unless they've been there before. I have yet to see his face since all this came out. I'm not mad at him but I certainly have no respect for him.

There is a silver lining though. I met her when I was just 18 and while I have always been very mature and responsible I missed a lot of growing up. I have a hard time defining myself, what I like, what do I believe in, what's worth fighting for, etc. Now I feel as if I am learning who I really am and becoming a better person. I am in the best shape of my life and have learned the biggest obstacle to success is your own self doubt. Lifting weights as primal as it is can also be very philosophical. I am fully involved as a father and have my son 6 days and 4 nights, my daughter is w/me 5 days but only 2 nights. The kids are more attached to me right now than their mother and while that’s sad I’m thankful that they feel safe and secure with me.

Even her family supports me more than her because she went about things the wrong way. I forgive her. We all make mistakes and I only know of one person that was perfect. In the end I will be better for it. The thing that worries me is when the kids are older they'll figure out that their mom cheated on their dad. I hope they don't lose respect for her.

I have gone out on two eHarmony dates. First one she was into me but I wasn't into her. The second was the opposite situation. It was the first time I ever asked a woman for her phone number. Weird I know. I'm 35 w/two kids and it's like I'm a virgin in high school again. Can't say I enjoyed the dates or the whole eharmony thing. I don't think I'm ready but I am trying to push myself out there so I don't become a hermit and live only for his kids. I know that's not healthy for me or them.

That’s all for now. Maybe I’ll post pictures from the divorce party my friends have promised to through me. I hope they are kidding actually.

Plan9 · 02-26-2010, 09:43 PM

Eh... I'd avoid eHarmony. It's a crazy Christian mental eugenics experiment. Or something.

It's good that you're working on you. Fortifying yourself is the best way to find someone new.

...

Ugh, this thread is depressing.

...

Wait... divorce party? I didn't get any divorce party. That's lame.

KirStang · 02-27-2010, 12:42 AM

She cheated on you. This is what makes me want to be a divorce lawyer. It strikes close to home and pisses the snot out of me.

That being said, ignore what I just said. You're handling this very maturely and will be a better person for it. Best of luck with everything!

Wes Mantooth · 02-27-2010, 01:13 AM

It sounds like you're handling it pretty well, I've known people who have gone out and done some pretty stupid things in the face of being cheated on and getting a divorce and it never ends pretty.

Really keep you chin up and take it day by day your attitude towards the whole mess will help you get back on your feet much quicker on the other side.

Best of luck, honestly after reading this thread I hope something REALLY wonderful comes you way soon.

Poppinjay · 02-27-2010, 06:06 AM

I've never used a web dating site but no on the eHarmony thing. What plan9 said.

Congrats on growing out of this situation. All will be well. It's an oddity of life that as we move into the youth of middle age, men have an easier time finding mates (unless they're hooked up on that shiny red twenty something ideal) and the harder it becomes for women.

07-13-2009, 07:33 AM	#1 (permalink)
LAW2 Upright Location: Florida	Can someone love you again? My wife and I are having problems. We have been married for 9 years and have been together for 16. This year has been bad with increased debt, less pay, the stress of two children, her going back to work, etc. I ignored her feelings and needs and buried myself in my work. She warned me that I was losing her, but I was too stupid to actually hear what she was saying to me. Now I know. I have done a total 180 and have pulled myself back into the family and bettered myself. She says I now do everything she wanted me to do back then, but her feelings for me have changed. She loves me but is not in love with me anymore. We have been to counseling a few times and she still has some resentment towards me. She prefers not to think about it and survive day by day, but I’m afraid we won’t get any better. We have long talks and cry a lot when we do so there are still feelings there. Neither one of us has ever cheated on the other. I know marriages ebb and flow, but I don’t think most get to this point. If I didn’t tell you these things you would never know this about us. We still kiss (peck on the lips), say I love you, sleep in the same bed, do things for each other, encourage one another, and do stuff with the kids together. I love my wife, I really do. I love my kids. I want her to be in love with me again and I want to live the rest of my life with her. My question is in your experience do you think that’s possible?

07-13-2009, 07:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	I was married for about 15 minutes once, but I have friends that have been married for a zillion years so I'll channel their groovy vibes. This "love but not in love" bullshit is total shrink psychobabble. She is what she does, and if she's with you but doesn't feel something... she's still with you. Sure, it's hard to leave people, but the divorce rate shows that its far from rare. I figure she's still with you because she wants it to work out. I don't like relationship ultimatums anymore. I don't recommend them at all. My experience with them has been total poopoo. Her dropping the "you're losing me" line just rubs me all the wrong ways. Was it a cry for help, a warning, a statement from a concerned lover? It sounds like you were being a responsible husband/father by taking care of the bottom chunk of Maslow's Hierarchy, the chunk that isn't appreciated until it's deficient. It's like, "Sorry, Daddy has to work for a living or we can love each other in a cardboard box. How ya like dem applies?" The important thing is that you realized that the balance of work/family was off and shifted back. She obviously feels hurt by the period of you-weren't-there and I believe you need to focus on that by showing her how much better things are now. You didn't promise her a rose garden, as they say, but you realized how gone you were and made changes because you care. You're obviously both very committed. You've gotta lotta time together, bro. I think recovery is possible until one person breaks outta the commitment. You banging the secretary or her drinking a bottle of Wild Turkey for dinner during the month of August are probably dealbreakers. As long as the hard exterior crust of trust is there, you can rebuild the emotional soup that is the lovey-dovey stuff. I'd recommend getting her flowers and taking her out someplace nice and saying your bit about commitment and durability. I think couples get this kinda threadbare because lovey-dovey is hard to come by in These Economic Times (TM) when everybody is treading water in the Practical World (TM). I remember being a callus dick to a partner because I was slamming college plus-plus-plus and really worried about survival numbers (money) and my all-consuming grades. It isn't an excuse, but it's close. And sometimes people just need to "man the fuck up." This "you and me forever" shit is hard. Really hard. It isn't about the good times, it's all about the bad times and sticking to the promise you made a squillion years ago when you got married. Also: Hope isn't a policy, so make sure you ante up the communication with your wife. As the illustrious Ratbastid often says, "Have you told her what you've told us?" __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 07-13-2009 at 08:35 AM..

07-13-2009, 03:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
LAW2 Upright Location: Florida	Thanks I really appreciate everyone’s comments. I was hoping there would be some words of encouragement and some positive experiences. They give me hope. I realize things might not work out the way I want but she deserves all my efforts. I thought that we were bullet proof and an example for others to look to, but I took her for granted and lost focus of what was important. I have learned that no marriage is perfect and problem free but I’m willing to do what it takes because she is that special to me. Hopefully more will respond and this thread will help others too.

07-13-2009, 03:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Good luck. Keep us posted. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

07-13-2009, 04:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
Shell Cheers Location: Eastcoast USA	Law, it took your marriage a long time to get as low as it is...so it will take some time to come back up....but it can happen with patience. Continue along the path you have now chosen...it's good and she will see that you are sincere over time...it will just take time for her to believe. ...be consistent with the "new you", stay confident and relax in the knowledge that she will someday realize that you are the man she originally fell in love with. By relaxing, you will not appear pushy...you will appear natural and sincere and true to yourself and to her. She's a lucky woman to have a man like you that loves her so completely...it may take awhile but she'll realize that. __________________ ..."Say what you think. Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ~ Dr. Seuss

07-13-2009, 07:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
DaniGirl Addict Location: Fucking Utah...	Of course it is possible, you both are still there and trying. It sounds like you are on the right track and just need to keep working. You should keep showing her that you have always loved her. She felt let down, and let me tell you women may forgive but we never forget. The hurt is still there and she will need to work threw it. I think you should try to get away from the kids and the house at least one day a week. Sometimes staying in the house just reminds you of the past, bills that need to be paid etc. It doesn't need to be expensive, just a walk in the park so you can talk. Now I know that I have only been married for 5 years, but I do know what you are going threw, me and my husband have been threw problems. Mainly money. Money always stresses out marriages. Me and my husband got married really young and now have three little girls. We work so hard to keep from fighting about money or any other issue. But it is hard. I really hope the best for you!!!

07-13-2009, 09:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
Anonymous Member Addict	I went though this same thing. Married 8 years, 1 child. We had plenty of money, that was never a stress. He ignored my feelings and needs and buried himself in his work and the computer. I warned him that he was losing me, but he never really listened. He eventually started trying, but only after it was too late. My feelings had changed. I love him, but I'm not in love with him anymore. No matter how hard I have tried, I have not been able to feel love for him like I once had. I can't see myself with him ever again. That was over 3 years ago. It's funny cause, if I went back to him I would live very well, as I said we never had to worry about money, and he makes even more now. He still has hope and wants me back, but I'm just not in love with him and can't find a way to feel that way for him again, and money can't by love or happiness. I hope this doesn't discourage you, because everyone is different, and she still could find her way back. This is more of a warning to others to listen when someone tells you something is wrong. Don't wait till it is too late, don't wait at all, or you can loose it all.

07-15-2009, 06:14 AM	#9 (permalink)
LAW2 Upright Location: Florida	Bump Threads fall away quickly and I could use some more feedback. I know sometimes threads get read and if somone says what you would say you choose not to comment, but in this case I ask that you reconsider. I have shared this thread with my wife and she was quite surprised with the responses, specially since women had commented.

07-15-2009, 06:29 AM	#10 (permalink)
PonyPotato Soaring Location: Ohio!	In my (limited) experience, it seems as though if one person is hurting a lot, and for enough time, it will take magic to get back to where you were. And a lot of it. I've been on both sides of this. Having my feelings continuously stomped on and needs/wants not met by a partner who essentially told me to fuck off constantly. Stayed with him longer than I should have, because I was used to it, but was always unhappy. In a "try again" scenario, I broke a partner's heart a couple years ago, and trying again, he could never fully open back up to me. It just didn't work, though we both wanted it to and tried, he just couldn't find a place where those feelings would return. Good luck, but I'm not one to be optimistic with these scenarios. __________________ "Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark." — Henri-Frédéric Amiel

07-16-2009, 10:05 AM	#11 (permalink)
Iliftrocks Junkie Location: Near Raleigh, NC	Give it your best, and she might come back around. It's worth it to work as hard as you can, because believe me, you'll feel like a failure if it ends, more so if you didn't try very hard. Good luck __________________ bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

08-05-2009, 12:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	This is a brutal slap across the head - good luck with the separation. I hope that you're able to regain her heart. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

08-05-2009, 03:54 PM	#17 (permalink)
lostgirl lightform Location: Edge of the deep green sea	Great post Cynthetiq. It is inspiring. I'm sorry things are not going so well LAW2. Reading Cyns post will give you some insight I hope and maybe help you though this. The only advice I can give is to show her your there and don't become angry and cold. I wish you the best. __________________ We're about to go through the crucible, but we'll come out the other side. We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its changed form. - Children of Dune

08-07-2009, 12:47 PM	#18 (permalink)
LAW2 Upright Location: Florida	There must have been some truth to Cynthetiq's article because after reading it I told my wife that we were moving too fast and that I thought her moving out was not a good idea. She agreed and didn't even argue. Thank you all.

08-07-2009, 12:51 PM	#19 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	That's great! I was actually talking to someone about this article today. It's important to remember this is all about communication and patience. I don't think many people put too much stock in those things today. They want instant answer and instant gratification. Relationships don't work that way... __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

08-07-2009, 01:21 PM	#20 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	What delightful news! __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

08-07-2009, 02:16 PM	#22 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Yeah, the article Cynth posted really beat me down good. Makes me believe that couples can work if they both embrace the suck. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-06-2009, 07:36 PM	#23 (permalink)
LAW2 Upright Location: Florida	Unhappy update Lots of details that I won’t go into, I’m too tired to type it all out. I have maintained hope through all of this. Hope that we would both work on it and rebuild our marriage. I still love her. I was snooping through her emails in early August and found reservations for her and another person to go out of town to see a show and stay several nights in a swanky loft with just one bed in late October. I hoped that maybe she was thinking that we would be better by then and it would be some kind of get away. Well I kept the secret for a little while and then asked her if she would be comfortable going away with me. She said no. So, that means her trip is not for us. Who could it be? Maybe one of her girl friends, and she still has time to cancel the trip, right? Well Sunday 8/30 I find a birthday card that she had written to her “best friend”. This friend happens to be a guy and someone I no longer trusted and told her that she was having an emotional affair with. She never could bring herself to break off the relationship and in the card she says how much she loves him and can’t wait to go to the show with him. Well that seals it. The trip isn’t for me but for her and some other guy. I confront her with everything I know and she confesses that she started having feelings for him back in April. So all through our counseling she was holding back and basically leading me on. For months I tried my best to make amends and show her how much she meant to me. Now she’s moving out, which she was going to do anyways, and I was for it thinking that I would give her some space and she’ll come back to me. In reality though he is going to live there with her. How shitty is that? Basically every paranoid thing that I accused her of was true. The sad part is I thought I could still forgive her and love her for the rest of my life. That was until tonight. She went into the office to work after hours and do some paper work. I went up there to see if she was alone and seeing no other car I began to leave. On a whim I peered into the windows and saw him and her in there together. They were working innocently at first, but then he begins to give her a back rub. When she gets up to fetch some papers off the printer she rubs his shoulders and leans over and gives him a kiss. A kiss that as her husband I could see there were feelings there. I later follow them to were his car is parked and see them embrace and kiss some more. Then she comes home and pretends like work was so hard with no mention of her company. It hurts so badly. I love her and hate her all at the same time. Now I have to be uber cool about it because we have kids together (3&5) and we’ll see each other almost every day. If it wasn't for the lunesta I took I would drive the 2-hours to my parents house to sleep. Signed betrayed, mad, sad, hopless and unloved.

09-06-2009, 08:06 PM	#24 (permalink)
Anormalguy After School Special Moralist Location: Large City, Texas.	LAW2, that sucks. I don't know you and your wife, but it sounds as though reconcilliation would be very difficult, at least at this time. You did your best to right a wrong. She made her decision, and that's something that you're both of you are going to have to deal with. However it turns out, I wish the best for you and the children. __________________ In a society where the individual is not free to pursue the truth...there is neither progress, stability nor security.--Edward R. Murrow

09-06-2009, 08:12 PM	#25 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	She is terrible for leading you on. This is an incredibly disturbing chain of events. I'm sorry that you have to deal with this pain. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

09-06-2009, 08:51 PM	#26 (permalink)
redsneaker Tilted Location: Atlanta	Wow, I am so sorry to hear about this turn of events. I was really hoping your situation would turn out better, from the updates you had given us. I know that you're feeling sad and mad and angry and unloved - know that's normal. While it sucks to be led on by your spouse, you will get through this. As the days go by it will get easier. You probably won't ever forget, but that's ok. Try to surround yourself with people who love and care about you - they will help you walk through this fire. Keep us updated if you wish. I will try to keep checkin' in to see how you're doing. Hope you can get some sleep tonight.

09-07-2009, 05:18 AM	#27 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	So, in other words when she said she loved you but was no longer "in love" with you, it meant that she's dedicated to the shiny new excitement, but not the day to day work of a marriage. I'll echo Crompsin, the line about love but not in love, is a bullshit line. It either means she loves you but doesn't mind cheating and hurting you horribly - in other words does NOT love you, or is mainly attracted to the earliness of a new relationship where most things go right and she knock's off a day of work to have a fun date, and the realness hasn't set in. I hope the kids are okay. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

09-07-2009, 06:13 AM	#28 (permalink)
amonkie Drifting Administrator Location: Windy City	While this sucks, she is not entirely at fault - What kind of sign is it that you went snooping? I've heard the line don't snoop if you can't handle what you find. That aside... Hopefully this will be the best outcome for everyone's mental sanity. __________________ Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

09-07-2009, 06:16 AM	#29 (permalink)
LAW2 Upright Location: Florida	This board and the people, while strangers, have been so helpful and comforting. I have never had to go through the swings of emotions like this. One minute, sad and full of self pity and times, like now, I'm all cried out and quite strong. Right now I'm confident that I will find happiness, that I will be the best dad that I can be and that there will be a woman one day that is a better mate for me than the first. Theres no point in being mad. What's done is done. We will still have to see each other almost every day and we will always be parents. However difficult, Ill words can never be spoken of each other to the kids. The kids are 3&5 so they don't understand what's happening. We've told them that some nights they'll sleep at mommy's and some nights daddy's and also grand ma's. I don't know for sure but we plan on doing stuff (soccer, dance, etc) as a family. If the tables were turned she has said that she would not be handeling it at well as I am. I feel that it is my burden to bear to be the better person and not allow this to get ugly. There are the lives and happiness of my childrens and my own to consider. She may find happiness and what she's looking for and she may not and I have to remember that its not of my concern. I can't make her happy and its not my job to do so. Even at my age I have a lot of growing up and learning to do. Again just another word of thanks for all those that have paused and offered your thoughts and advice.

09-07-2009, 07:24 AM	#30 (permalink)
warrrreagl pinche vato Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton	I'm sorry I got to this thread late. First of all, I've been married twice. The first marriage doesn't count, because it never should have happened, and I was standing at the church on my wedding day trying to think of ways to get out of it. It lasted a year. I haven't heard a word from her in almost 30 years, so that one is done. On the day I married Grancey, my father finally gave me real "married guy" advice. He said, "Marriage is a lot of hard work. It ain't easy." Still being young, dumb, and stupid, I thought he was nuts. Instead, it's been the most cogent thing anyone has ever said to me about marriage. And it took me far too long to understand it. Thank God Grancey is who she is, or my ass would have been tossed a long time ago. Every. Single. Marriage. Is. Different. You can NEVER look at someone else's marriage and say, "Hey, they look happy. We're not happy. Let's do what they do and then we'll be happy. And if we were truly happy, we'd be doing exactly what they're doing." That will fail absolutely 100% of the time. Also, you can't ever look at Section D, Paragraph 19 of the Successful Marriage Manual to figure out anything. You can't go to marriage.com and check out the FAX on fixing a broken marriage. You can't drive your marriage over to the mechanic and have him hook it up to the computer diagnostics. There is no therapist, no book, no seminar, no priest, no fortune teller, and no best friend who will EVER be able to truly help you with your own marriage. It has to come from the two of you. And my father was right - it's hard work, and it ain't easy. Nothing worthwhile ever is. Keeping Grancey from kicking me to the curb has been the most successful thing I've ever done. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed.

09-08-2009, 12:53 PM	#35 (permalink)
Toaster126 Extreme moderation Location: Kansas City, yo.	I'm proud of you Law2, for whatever that means. Good luck. __________________ "The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand) "The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

02-26-2010, 07:52 PM	#36 (permalink)
LAW2 Upright Location: Florida	It's been a long time since I've been on here even longer since I last posted. Not really much to say except that I'm still alive. My wife and I should be divorced on 3/24 if all goes well. The divorce is uncontested and we have been very friendly to each other. No lawyers, did the paper work together, 50/50 split. We still see each other often do to kid drop off and such. It's very painful to be cheated on. You have these thoughts of inadequacies but really it's not my concern. She is living with the other guy and even though she says she never did anything with him until she moved out I don't believe it. My mom pointed out that you don't share your bed with someone unless they've been there before. I have yet to see his face since all this came out. I'm not mad at him but I certainly have no respect for him. There is a silver lining though. I met her when I was just 18 and while I have always been very mature and responsible I missed a lot of growing up. I have a hard time defining myself, what I like, what do I believe in, what's worth fighting for, etc. Now I feel as if I am learning who I really am and becoming a better person. I am in the best shape of my life and have learned the biggest obstacle to success is your own self doubt. Lifting weights as primal as it is can also be very philosophical. I am fully involved as a father and have my son 6 days and 4 nights, my daughter is w/me 5 days but only 2 nights. The kids are more attached to me right now than their mother and while that’s sad I’m thankful that they feel safe and secure with me. Even her family supports me more than her because she went about things the wrong way. I forgive her. We all make mistakes and I only know of one person that was perfect. In the end I will be better for it. The thing that worries me is when the kids are older they'll figure out that their mom cheated on their dad. I hope they don't lose respect for her. I have gone out on two eHarmony dates. First one she was into me but I wasn't into her. The second was the opposite situation. It was the first time I ever asked a woman for her phone number. Weird I know. I'm 35 w/two kids and it's like I'm a virgin in high school again. Can't say I enjoyed the dates or the whole eharmony thing. I don't think I'm ready but I am trying to push myself out there so I don't become a hermit and live only for his kids. I know that's not healthy for me or them. That’s all for now. Maybe I’ll post pictures from the divorce party my friends have promised to through me. I hope they are kidding actually.

02-26-2010, 09:43 PM	#37 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Eh... I'd avoid eHarmony. It's a crazy Christian mental eugenics experiment. Or something. It's good that you're working on you. Fortifying yourself is the best way to find someone new. ... Ugh, this thread is depressing. ... Wait... divorce party? I didn't get any divorce party. That's lame. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 02-26-2010 at 09:46 PM..

02-27-2010, 12:42 AM	#38 (permalink)
KirStang Future Bureaucrat	She cheated on you. This is what makes me want to be a divorce lawyer. It strikes close to home and pisses the snot out of me. That being said, ignore what I just said. You're handling this very maturely and will be a better person for it. Best of luck with everything!

02-27-2010, 01:13 AM	#39 (permalink)
Wes Mantooth Junkie Location: Tennessee	It sounds like you're handling it pretty well, I've known people who have gone out and done some pretty stupid things in the face of being cheated on and getting a divorce and it never ends pretty. Really keep you chin up and take it day by day your attitude towards the whole mess will help you get back on your feet much quicker on the other side. Best of luck, honestly after reading this thread I hope something REALLY wonderful comes you way soon. __________________ “My god I must have missed it...its hell down here!”

02-27-2010, 06:06 AM	#40 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	I've never used a web dating site but no on the eHarmony thing. What plan9 said. Congrats on growing out of this situation. All will be well. It's an oddity of life that as we move into the youth of middle age, men have an easier time finding mates (unless they're hooked up on that shiny red twenty something ideal) and the harder it becomes for women. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet