My backyard is dying!!!!!! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Lasereth · 06-07-2009, 04:36 PM

Ok here's the deal. Up until this past March, my backyard was a mudpit. Just red clay with a bunch of dead straw on top of it. It had been like that for a year because we didn't take care of it when we moved in.

In March, my dad and I mowed up the dead straw and replanted the whole thing. We put down a shitload of Rebel IV Turf-Type Tall Fescue grass seed and fertilizer and I watered it heavily. 2 months later, we have this, and it was beautiful!!

Now, here's the problem. After it got like that, it started raining about twice a week, so we stopped watering it. The longest we went without it getting any form of water was 1 week. We noticed it starting to turn less green and looking weak 3 weeks ago. I started watering it again 2 weeks ago. Last week it rained 8 inches in 24 hours here!!!

Now the grass is still getting worse by the day. Less green, even white/brown, and it's not as full.

What's going on with my yard??? Surely 1 week without watering wouldn't kill it, right?? Plus it's had a ton of water in the last 2 weeks but it's still getting worse.

It looks terrible now and I'm worried that I'll have to start over again.

I didn't want to mow it, but I did after about 2 months of it growing because it was absurdly high. Did mowing kill it?? I mowed it on the highest setting.

I've read that heat can kill grass, but my neighbors' grass aren't as bad looking as mine, and there's is still full.

Please help!

Baraka_Guru · 06-07-2009, 05:30 PM

The clay will suck the moisture from the top of your turf. You need to regularly mix in some other stuff like manure and peat moss and top soil. I'm no expert, but I know that the clay will give your lawn problems by absorbing the moisture from it, causing it to dry out. Peat moss will help break up the clay and help with water retention.

inBOIL · 06-07-2009, 05:33 PM

Do you fertilize it regularly?

Hektore · 06-07-2009, 06:14 PM

When you water it, how do you do it? With a hose/sprinkler and for how long?

Baraka_Guru · 06-07-2009, 06:19 PM

I have a correction...sorry...clay does the opposite, now that I think of it. You might not be getting proper drainage and aeration. Muck pit you said. (I was thinking of sandy soil that might let your grass dry out.)

Either way, you need to get some top soil in there to help the composition of what's underneath your lawn. Otherwise, you're going to get it choked out.

genuinegirly · 06-07-2009, 06:21 PM

Some key bits of information are missing from your description.

- When it rained twice/week, how many inches or centimeters did it rain each time? It is likely that it was not a sufficient downpour to maintain your young lawn.

- Even though you have chosen a drought-tolerant fescue, going a week without water WILL kill a lawn - if you have not sufficiently saturated the soil during that watering. You should have a minimum of two inches moisture saturation in the soil if you plan to water infrequently (note: this is not the same as watering with two inches of water, this is all about maintaining moisture in the soil matrix - which is incredibly difficult to repair once destroyed).

- How short did you cut it when you mowed your lawn? This particular seed that you have chosen prefers to be cut no shorter 3-4" high, which is honestly a bit tall for a typical push lawnmower. Mowing it too short will do severe damage, since you can cut it below the intercalary meristem.

- What kind of fertilizer did you use? It could be that your clay soil is severely nutrient-poor and once your fertilizer was used up, the plants were left starving. If you chose to use fertilizer salts, this is a frequent problem. If you put down a layer of manure, this is less likely the problem. You really should have made an effort to break up your clay and ammend the soil by mixing in fresh compost or manure before planting - clay is a terrible substrate for a lawn.

Lasereth · 06-07-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inBOIL

Do you fertilize it regularly?

No.

---------- Post added at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hektore

When you water it, how do you do it? With a hose/sprinkler and for how long?

1 hour, twice a week with a sprinkler attached to a hose.

Baraka_Guru · 06-07-2009, 06:35 PM

gg to the rescue!

Do what she says.

(Seriously.)

Lasereth · 06-07-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

Some key bits of information are missing from your description.

- When it rained twice/week, how many inches or centimeters did it rain each time? It is likely that it was not a sufficient downpour to maintain your young lawn.

- Even though you have chosen a drought-tolerant fescue, going a week without water WILL kill a lawn - if you have not sufficiently saturated the soil during that watering. You should have a minimum of two inches moisture saturation in the soil if you plan to water infrequently (note: this is not the same as watering with two inches of water, this is all about maintaining moisture in the soil matrix - which is incredibly difficult to repair once destroyed).

- How short did you cut it when you mowed your lawn? This particular seed that you have chosen prefers to be cut no shorter 3-4" high, which is honestly a bit tall for a typical push lawnmower. Mowing it too short will do severe damage, since you can cut it below the intercalary meristem.

- What kind of fertilizer did you use? It could be that your clay soil is severely nutrient-poor and once your fertilizer was used up, the plants were left starving. If you chose to use fertilizer salts, this is a frequent problem. If you put down a layer of manure, this is less likely the problem. You really should have made an effort to break up your clay and ammend the soil by mixing in fresh compost or manure before planting - clay is a terrible substrate for a lawn.

When it rains here it typically isn't a whole lot, but the past month or so has been pretty darn rainy (sprinkling all day many times). I didn't water the grass if I went outside and the ground was still mushy.

When I mowed it, I mowed it on the highest setting. Not sure what the inches are on that. I know that my neighbors have the same mower as me and mow at a lower setting, and their grass isn't dead right now, though I don't know if their grass is the same as mine.

I have no idea what fertilizer we used.

Bill O'Rights · 06-07-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

your clay soil is severely nutrient-poor and once your fertilizer was used up, the plants were left starving.

Genuinegirly has just identified your problem. There is not anything in clay to keep plants alive. You needed to spread some topsoil before planting. Since you did not, you may be able to spread some fertilizer, water it in, then lay down a layer of compost over the grass. Do not use a fertilizer with weed killer. Right now, you need anything that can to get a roothold. You can take care of the weeds in a couple of years. Right now, they are your friends. You need to build up a layer of soil. This is acheived through decaying matter. Leaves, I find, break down the quickest. It may also help to lay down a layer of straw to help hold some moisture on top to aid in the decaying process.

Lasereth · 06-08-2009, 03:22 AM

There's still a lot of straw left from when we put it down for this grass. Some areas have a huge amount actually; it's very thick in places.

Why do all the neighbors not have to put this stuff down but I do? The neighbors to the left of us put only seed down, no fertilizer, and have better grass than we do right now. The only difference I can tell is he waters his almost daily, even when it rains...

Lasereth · 06-08-2009, 08:31 AM

Also, I've had 4 people now tell me that I watered the grass during the hottest part of the day, and the grass is now scorched because of it. Could this be the case?? The grass does look sorta burnt out rather than nutrient deficient.

Redlemon · 06-08-2009, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

Also, I've had 4 people now tell me that I watered the grass during the hottest part of the day, and the grass is now scorched because of it. Could this be the case?? The grass does look sorta burnt out rather than nutrient deficient.

Beads of water clinging to grass in the sunlight can work just like tiny magnifying glasses, and I'm sure you played with magnifying glasses and ants when you were a child...

highthief · 06-08-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

Also, I've had 4 people now tell me that I watered the grass during the hottest part of the day, and the grass is now scorched because of it. Could this be the case?? The grass does look sorta burnt out rather than nutrient deficient.

You should be watering in the early morning, ideally. Set a timer if it is not convenient to be up so eary.

yournamehere · 06-12-2009, 08:21 PM

It might be your location and your choice of grass. Tall fescue is a cool season grass, and grows best when the high daily temperature is between 60-75 degrees. Did the problem start when the temperature started hitting 80?

North Carolina is in the pesky Transitional Zone, which means that your summers are too hot for cool season grasses; yet your cool springs and falls (and, winters, of course) will shorten the growing season of warm season grasses, and they'll go dormant except for summer. Since, IIRC, Winston-Salem is at a fairly low elevation, you might be better off with a warm season grass like Bermuda, Zoysia, or St. Augustine. It really depends on which part of the year you want your lawn to look its best.

If you want the best of both worlds, re-plant with bermuda, and overseed it with ryegrass every fall (It's time to overseed after two consecutive weeks of the low temperature at night being below 60). That way you'll have green grass year-round. St. Augustine doesn't turn brown when it's dormant (Bermuda does), but IMO, it doesn't make for as nice a lawn. But then again; you don't have to overseed St. Augustine - it just stops growing when it gets too cool, but stays green (and doesn't need mowing

) . There is also a fescue called "Turf type fescue" that does better in warm climates than tall fescue.

If you decide to stick with what you've got and just keep watering it regularly, my bet is that it will start looking better again in the fall when the temperatures go down. Tall fescue needs 0.75-1.00 inch of water per week during drought conditions (like a hot summer). Since you have clay soil, you should water frequently for short periods of time - like 0.25 inches every other day. If your soil is so clayey that it starts to run off or pool without soaking in; then give it 0.12 inches every day. Don't irrigate on days that it rains, though. And, as has been said before, water early in the morning (not at night though - then you run the risk of growing fungus).

Since you're not using a proper irrigation system, calculate your precipitation rate this way: Get a few short glasses from your kitchen cupboard (the more the better); place a horizontal line on them exactly an inch from the bottom of the inside, and place them randomly around your lawn, within reach of your sprinkler. Turn on the sprinkler and time exactly how long it takes to fill most of the glasses to the line. Prepare to get very wet while checking. That will give you the time it takes to deliver an inch of water to your yard. That's how long you should water per week. If I were you, considering your soil, I'd water it 1/7 of that time every day.

You really should install an irrigation system - it will save you hours of work every month and pay for itself in saved water bills within a few years. Many more lawns (and plants) die from over-watering than from under-watering.

If you end up starting over, use a warm season grass.

EDITED LATER: Oops - I see you are using the turf type fescue. It still could be too hot for it, though. Have you asked your neighbors what type of grass they're using?

genuinegirly · 06-13-2009, 05:23 AM

^ excellent advice.

fast1 · 06-13-2009, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

^ excellent advice.

i second that

thingstodo · 06-13-2009, 11:18 AM

Any fescue sucks in the summer in the south, unfortunately. It requires water and with clay, almost daily watering. An inch a week is basic but you apparently have a lot of clay? That makes it difficult for the roots to grow deeper so it requires more frequent watering. Also, makes sure the middle number on your fertilizer when you are watering is high, like 20 or more as that helps the roots go deeper.

I feel for you as I experienced the same thing years ago when I lived in the Raleigh area. I couldn't afford a sprinkler system and tried with a regular sprinkler. Unfortunately, the best time to water is when you are just finishing up at daybreak. It has a chance to soak in and not sit on the surface overnight. Evening watering encourages mold and other disease. Day time just evaporates and never soaks in.

One thing I learned a few years ago to help clay already under the grass goes like this: in the fall and spring, put down gypsum. Follow with either Milorganite or chicken dried manure. The gypsum helps the fertilizer perculate down into the clay and takes teh fertilizer with it. A few times of this and you clay will get broken up and the roots will be able to go down better.

Lasereth · 06-13-2009, 06:51 PM

There's been some excellent advice in this thread. I'll try some of the tips. I guess I'm still confused as to why the grass would start out like a golf course and then basically die in 3 weeks.

When it was super green, it was much cooler than it is now, usually 70 degrees as the high...then all of a sudden it started getting hot as hell here, 80s, 90s for about a month and that's when it started to brown. Is grass supposed to simply brown and die because of heat though? If so, why are all of the grasses in other neighborhoods doing great without even being watered? The professional that gave me the materials for my yard said this grass was supposed to stand the heat and drought very well, and the first time it got hot it turned brown. WTF???

This grass business is way too complicated!!!

My front yard is sod and it's still doing great. I watered the hell out of it last summer and kept it alive when we moved in. Then this past spring, we put a bunch of for-sod fertilizer stuff on it and it's the greenest in the neighborhood now and we don't even water it. UGH!!!!!!

yournamehere · 06-13-2009, 10:01 PM

Fescue can't take 90 degree temperatures, despite your "professional's" advice.
I was going to guess you have bermuda in front (especially since you mentioned it was sod). But bermuda requires even more water than fescue, so it doesn't make sense that it's thriving with no water, unless you're getting a lot of rain. Of course, that's one of the good qualities of clay - once it gets saturated, it retains moisture for a long time. Did it turn yellow or brown in the winter? If so, it's bermuda. When you get down real close and look at it, is it a nice, even "carpet;" or are there clumps of grass with spaces in between? If it's the latter, and stayed green all winter, it could be St. Augustine.

If you decide to put bermuda in back, you can't buy seed; you'll have to buy sod. It's more expensive but a lot easier not worrying about the grow-in period. You'll also get an inch or so of better soil with it.
You might be able to still buy Common Bermuda seed, but you'll really want a hybrid, which is only available as sod - otherwise you and all your neighbors will be sneezing till the first frost. Common Bermuda is very allergenic.

If you want some real professional advice, call your local golf course and ask to talk to the superintendent, or his assistant. They can tell you in one minute the best grass for your area's climate, how much to water, and when and how to fertilize it.

thingstodo · 06-14-2009, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

There's been some excellent advice in this thread. I'll try some of the tips. I guess I'm still confused as to why the grass would start out like a golf course and then basically die in 3 weeks.

When it was super green, it was much cooler than it is now, usually 70 degrees as the high...then all of a sudden it started getting hot as hell here, 80s, 90s for about a month and that's when it started to brown. Is grass supposed to simply brown and die because of heat though? If so, why are all of the grasses in other neighborhoods doing great without even being watered? The professional that gave me the materials for my yard said this grass was supposed to stand the heat and drought very well, and the first time it got hot it turned brown. WTF???

This grass business is way too complicated!!!

My front yard is sod and it's still doing great. I watered the hell out of it last summer and kept it alive when we moved in. Then this past spring, we put a bunch of for-sod fertilizer stuff on it and it's the greenest in the neighborhood now and we don't even water it. UGH!!!!!!

As others have said, fescue is a cool season grass. Many contractors use it because it starts quick and is inexpensive. You will like it in the fall, winter and spring. And you will fight it every summer.

You might also check for grubs. I can't remember if that is a problem in NC.

Lasereth · 06-14-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yournamehere

Did it turn yellow or brown in the winter? If so, it's bermuda. When you get down real close and look at it, is it a nice, even "carpet;" or are there clumps of grass with spaces in between? If it's the latter, and stayed green all winter, it could be St. Augustine.

Here is it during the winter:

This is it now:

I know the last pic doesn't have much grass in it but the whole front yard is that color.

runtuff · 06-14-2009, 12:38 PM

Maybe I missed the word Loam or topsoil amount, but is there a few inches, like 3-6 inches of topsoil on top of your red clay? It sounds like you seeded and fertilized the subsoil.

yournamehere · 06-14-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

Here is it during the winter:

Yup - That looks like Bermuda - a warm season grass. Get yourself some for the back yard. I'd still recommend putting in an irrigation system before laying the sod.

Lindy · 06-14-2009, 04:46 PM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this.

I'm sure you will have in your area a service run by the Department of Agriculture, or the Ag School at one of your state universities. It's called the Cooperative Extension Office, County Extension Agent, or something similar. Look in your local phone book.

Here it is:

Forsyth County > Cooperative Extension Service (ain't Google wonderful?)

They get paid to help with problems just like yours. The Extension Office will be familiar with the soils in your area, as well as what grasses will thrive in your climate. You can take in soil samples which they will analyze for free or at nominal cost. Don't let the "Department of Agriculture" thing put you off. They work with city and suburban folks as well as farmers.

Your problem sounds to me like you may have sod web worm.

An infestation of little critters that live under the sod and eat the roots of your grass. Often associated with too much water and poor drainage, and your back yard looks like it has a bunch of low areas.

The Extension Agent is your friend. And more to the point, you pay taxes to support that service, so use it.

Lindy

Lasereth · 06-14-2009, 04:47 PM

I can't just tear up my backyard again though. I don't have the money to lay sod down on the whole backyard when I just spent $$$ to make it go from clay to grass.

Is there no way to make this shit grow without ripping it all up and dumping manure and topsoil on it??

BTW I've noticed over the past week that my neighbors grass is finally starting to look like mine also. Sorta yellow/brown/white...but their grass didn't start out nice and green like mine.

I think maybe the heat is just getting to it.

yournamehere · 06-15-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

. . . . Is there no way to make this shit grow without ripping it all up and dumping manure and topsoil on it??.

Not until you can control the weather.

Look on the bright side - it'll look good between October and May.

Also, you might try calling some seed and turf companies - ask if you can buy some hybrid bermuda sprigs (and ask them to explain what sprigs are and how to grow them in). If they'll deliver a small amount, it'll be cheaper than sod. They take a lot of work and patience, though. Even if you planted today, you won't have a full lawn till September.

Lasereth · 03-30-2010, 06:07 AM

Here we go again!!!!!!!

I put down a ton of lime and seed last fall in September/October.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yournamehere

Look on the bright side - it'll look good between October and May.

This never happened.

The grass stayed dead through the rest of the summer. Even in the fall it stayed in terrible condition. I put down the lime and seed and still nothing happened.

So this past weekend I put down fertilizer and seed again. We'll see what happens. I'll post some pics later.

Baraka_Guru · 03-30-2010, 06:13 AM

I say keep putting topsoil on it each year. Over time the soil underneath will become more ideal. No amount of seed or fertilizer will help if it keeps getting choked out by the soil.

Lasereth · 03-30-2010, 06:41 AM

Just dump top soil on it? How much? Wouldn't that take like 100 bags?

The_Jazz · 03-30-2010, 06:52 AM

No, you want to sprinkle the topsoil out over the entire yard. You don't want to bury the grass - think of it as covering any exposed roots. It's probably closer to 5-10 bags.

Baraka_Guru · 03-30-2010, 07:20 AM

YouTube - Topdressing Your Lawn

dlish · 03-30-2010, 07:33 AM

lasereth, why dont you go to a garden centre store in your local area and ask them?

they may know others that have experienced something similar or may have knowledge of local conditions.

that'd be my first point of contact

Lasereth · 03-30-2010, 08:28 AM

I've asked experts and they all say different stuff. Not enough water, too much water, too much sun, "it's supposed to die in the summer," fungus, too much shade, planted it at the wrong time, not enough fertilizer, need more lime, etc. I've heard it all. And I've tried it all also to no avail.

The only thing I haven't done is get a soil sample kit. I haven't put down topsoil either though. I don't understand why my neighbors who are literally 15 feet away have green grass but not me. They do nothing special to their lawn.

Hektore · 03-30-2010, 08:52 AM

If you haven't had your soil tested how do you know how much lime it needs, if any at all?

I have a thought - find your neighbour with the best lawn and go ask them what they do to it. Don't ask them what to do with yours, just what is done to theirs. What kind of grass, watering, etc.

If it were me, I would cover the whole lawn with a few inches of topsoil mixed with compost, maybe till it into the clay to a depth of about 5-6 inches overall, and start over doing whatever it is they do.

Lasereth · 03-30-2010, 09:11 AM

I've asked them. They don't do anything. My Vietnamese neighbors to the left water their grass about as often as I do and I saw them ONE TIME put seed down. They don't put down fertilizer or lime. I think they have a different grass than me because their grass turned green about 3 weeks ago while nobody else in my neighborhood's has. The guy across the road seeds and fertilizes his when I do but his stays green from March-November.

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hektore

If you haven't had your soil tested how do you know how much lime it needs, if any at all?

I was told by 2 different people (who are really into grass and lawn stuff) that they are 110% positive that's my problem so I took their advice.

Baraka_Guru · 03-30-2010, 09:13 AM

From the look of the houses and the size of the trees in the photos, it looks like a recently built housing development...plus, with what you mentioned in the OP about the mud pit. Am I right?

Well, in my observations, the soil quality of the yards in these developments are a mixed bag. It wouldn't surprise me if your neighbours received a luckier "draw" with the soil on their plot compared to yours. I've seen some pretty nasty packed clay on these lots, and I've seen many strips of sod go completely dead upon them.

Lasereth · 03-30-2010, 09:23 AM

Yeah that could definitely be it. I'm picking up a soil sample kit today.

thingstodo · 04-05-2010, 02:37 AM

One thing I learned about clay soil from a grounds keeper is to put gypsum and milorganite down on theose areas in the spring and fall. The gypsum breaks up the soil and the milorganite filters down in deeper and also changes the chemistry of the soil to help it accept chemical fertilizers better. I've done that on a few bad areas three times now and it just gets better every year. Just don't wait too late in the fall or you could get brown spots as the two together create a reaction that produces heat.

06-07-2009, 04:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	My backyard is dying!!!!!! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok here's the deal. Up until this past March, my backyard was a mudpit. Just red clay with a bunch of dead straw on top of it. It had been like that for a year because we didn't take care of it when we moved in. In March, my dad and I mowed up the dead straw and replanted the whole thing. We put down a shitload of Rebel IV Turf-Type Tall Fescue grass seed and fertilizer and I watered it heavily. 2 months later, we have this, and it was beautiful!! Now, here's the problem. After it got like that, it started raining about twice a week, so we stopped watering it. The longest we went without it getting any form of water was 1 week. We noticed it starting to turn less green and looking weak 3 weeks ago. I started watering it again 2 weeks ago. Last week it rained 8 inches in 24 hours here!!! Now the grass is still getting worse by the day. Less green, even white/brown, and it's not as full. What's going on with my yard??? Surely 1 week without watering wouldn't kill it, right?? Plus it's had a ton of water in the last 2 weeks but it's still getting worse. It looks terrible now and I'm worried that I'll have to start over again. I didn't want to mow it, but I did after about 2 months of it growing because it was absurdly high. Did mowing kill it?? I mowed it on the highest setting. I've read that heat can kill grass, but my neighbors' grass aren't as bad looking as mine, and there's is still full. Please help! __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert Last edited by Lasereth; 06-07-2009 at 04:52 PM..

06-07-2009, 05:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	The clay will suck the moisture from the top of your turf. You need to regularly mix in some other stuff like manure and peat moss and top soil. I'm no expert, but I know that the clay will give your lawn problems by absorbing the moisture from it, causing it to dry out. Peat moss will help break up the clay and help with water retention. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

06-07-2009, 05:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	Do you fertilize it regularly? __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

06-07-2009, 06:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
Hektore Junkie Location: Greater Harrisburg Area	When you water it, how do you do it? With a hose/sprinkler and for how long? __________________ The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

06-07-2009, 06:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	I have a correction...sorry...clay does the opposite, now that I think of it. You might not be getting proper drainage and aeration. Muck pit you said. (I was thinking of sandy soil that might let your grass dry out.) Either way, you need to get some top soil in there to help the composition of what's underneath your lawn. Otherwise, you're going to get it choked out. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

06-07-2009, 06:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Some key bits of information are missing from your description. - When it rained twice/week, how many inches or centimeters did it rain each time? It is likely that it was not a sufficient downpour to maintain your young lawn. - Even though you have chosen a drought-tolerant fescue, going a week without water WILL kill a lawn - if you have not sufficiently saturated the soil during that watering. You should have a minimum of two inches moisture saturation in the soil if you plan to water infrequently (note: this is not the same as watering with two inches of water, this is all about maintaining moisture in the soil matrix - which is incredibly difficult to repair once destroyed). - How short did you cut it when you mowed your lawn? This particular seed that you have chosen prefers to be cut no shorter 3-4" high, which is honestly a bit tall for a typical push lawnmower. Mowing it too short will do severe damage, since you can cut it below the intercalary meristem. - What kind of fertilizer did you use? It could be that your clay soil is severely nutrient-poor and once your fertilizer was used up, the plants were left starving. If you chose to use fertilizer salts, this is a frequent problem. If you put down a layer of manure, this is less likely the problem. You really should have made an effort to break up your clay and ammend the soil by mixing in fresh compost or manure before planting - clay is a terrible substrate for a lawn. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy Last edited by genuinegirly; 06-07-2009 at 06:31 PM..

06-07-2009, 06:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	gg to the rescue! Do what she says. (Seriously.) __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

06-08-2009, 03:22 AM	#11 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	There's still a lot of straw left from when we put it down for this grass. Some areas have a huge amount actually; it's very thick in places. Why do all the neighbors not have to put this stuff down but I do? The neighbors to the left of us put only seed down, no fertilizer, and have better grass than we do right now. The only difference I can tell is he waters his almost daily, even when it rains... __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

06-08-2009, 08:31 AM	#12 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Also, I've had 4 people now tell me that I watered the grass during the hottest part of the day, and the grass is now scorched because of it. Could this be the case?? The grass does look sorta burnt out rather than nutrient deficient. __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

06-12-2009, 08:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
yournamehere Invisible Location: tentative, at best	It might be your location and your choice of grass. Tall fescue is a cool season grass, and grows best when the high daily temperature is between 60-75 degrees. Did the problem start when the temperature started hitting 80? North Carolina is in the pesky Transitional Zone, which means that your summers are too hot for cool season grasses; yet your cool springs and falls (and, winters, of course) will shorten the growing season of warm season grasses, and they'll go dormant except for summer. Since, IIRC, Winston-Salem is at a fairly low elevation, you might be better off with a warm season grass like Bermuda, Zoysia, or St. Augustine. It really depends on which part of the year you want your lawn to look its best. If you want the best of both worlds, re-plant with bermuda, and overseed it with ryegrass every fall (It's time to overseed after two consecutive weeks of the low temperature at night being below 60). That way you'll have green grass year-round. St. Augustine doesn't turn brown when it's dormant (Bermuda does), but IMO, it doesn't make for as nice a lawn. But then again; you don't have to overseed St. Augustine - it just stops growing when it gets too cool, but stays green (and doesn't need mowing ) . There is also a fescue called "Turf type fescue" that does better in warm climates than tall fescue. If you decide to stick with what you've got and just keep watering it regularly, my bet is that it will start looking better again in the fall when the temperatures go down. Tall fescue needs 0.75-1.00 inch of water per week during drought conditions (like a hot summer). Since you have clay soil, you should water frequently for short periods of time - like 0.25 inches every other day. If your soil is so clayey that it starts to run off or pool without soaking in; then give it 0.12 inches every day. Don't irrigate on days that it rains, though. And, as has been said before, water early in the morning (not at night though - then you run the risk of growing fungus). Since you're not using a proper irrigation system, calculate your precipitation rate this way: Get a few short glasses from your kitchen cupboard (the more the better); place a horizontal line on them exactly an inch from the bottom of the inside, and place them randomly around your lawn, within reach of your sprinkler. Turn on the sprinkler and time exactly how long it takes to fill most of the glasses to the line. Prepare to get very wet while checking. That will give you the time it takes to deliver an inch of water to your yard. That's how long you should water per week. If I were you, considering your soil, I'd water it 1/7 of that time every day. You really should install an irrigation system - it will save you hours of work every month and pay for itself in saved water bills within a few years. Many more lawns (and plants) die from over-watering than from under-watering. If you end up starting over, use a warm season grass. EDITED LATER: Oops - I see you are using the turf type fescue. It still could be too hot for it, though. Have you asked your neighbors what type of grass they're using? __________________ If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors: "If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too." It won't hurt your fashion sense, either. Last edited by yournamehere; 06-15-2009 at 01:19 PM..

06-13-2009, 05:23 AM	#16 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	^ excellent advice. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

06-13-2009, 11:18 AM	#18 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	Any fescue sucks in the summer in the south, unfortunately. It requires water and with clay, almost daily watering. An inch a week is basic but you apparently have a lot of clay? That makes it difficult for the roots to grow deeper so it requires more frequent watering. Also, makes sure the middle number on your fertilizer when you are watering is high, like 20 or more as that helps the roots go deeper. I feel for you as I experienced the same thing years ago when I lived in the Raleigh area. I couldn't afford a sprinkler system and tried with a regular sprinkler. Unfortunately, the best time to water is when you are just finishing up at daybreak. It has a chance to soak in and not sit on the surface overnight. Evening watering encourages mold and other disease. Day time just evaporates and never soaks in. One thing I learned a few years ago to help clay already under the grass goes like this: in the fall and spring, put down gypsum. Follow with either Milorganite or chicken dried manure. The gypsum helps the fertilizer perculate down into the clay and takes teh fertilizer with it. A few times of this and you clay will get broken up and the roots will be able to go down better. __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.

06-13-2009, 06:51 PM	#19 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	There's been some excellent advice in this thread. I'll try some of the tips. I guess I'm still confused as to why the grass would start out like a golf course and then basically die in 3 weeks. When it was super green, it was much cooler than it is now, usually 70 degrees as the high...then all of a sudden it started getting hot as hell here, 80s, 90s for about a month and that's when it started to brown. Is grass supposed to simply brown and die because of heat though? If so, why are all of the grasses in other neighborhoods doing great without even being watered? The professional that gave me the materials for my yard said this grass was supposed to stand the heat and drought very well, and the first time it got hot it turned brown. WTF??? This grass business is way too complicated!!! My front yard is sod and it's still doing great. I watered the hell out of it last summer and kept it alive when we moved in. Then this past spring, we put a bunch of for-sod fertilizer stuff on it and it's the greenest in the neighborhood now and we don't even water it. UGH!!!!!! __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

06-13-2009, 10:01 PM	#20 (permalink)
yournamehere Invisible Location: tentative, at best	Fescue can't take 90 degree temperatures, despite your "professional's" advice. I was going to guess you have bermuda in front (especially since you mentioned it was sod). But bermuda requires even more water than fescue, so it doesn't make sense that it's thriving with no water, unless you're getting a lot of rain. Of course, that's one of the good qualities of clay - once it gets saturated, it retains moisture for a long time. Did it turn yellow or brown in the winter? If so, it's bermuda. When you get down real close and look at it, is it a nice, even "carpet;" or are there clumps of grass with spaces in between? If it's the latter, and stayed green all winter, it could be St. Augustine. If you decide to put bermuda in back, you can't buy seed; you'll have to buy sod. It's more expensive but a lot easier not worrying about the grow-in period. You'll also get an inch or so of better soil with it. You might be able to still buy Common Bermuda seed, but you'll really want a hybrid, which is only available as sod - otherwise you and all your neighbors will be sneezing till the first frost. Common Bermuda is very allergenic. If you want some real professional advice, call your local golf course and ask to talk to the superintendent, or his assistant. They can tell you in one minute the best grass for your area's climate, how much to water, and when and how to fertilize it. __________________ If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors: "If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too." It won't hurt your fashion sense, either. Last edited by yournamehere; 06-13-2009 at 10:04 PM..

06-14-2009, 12:38 PM	#23 (permalink)
runtuff Crazy	Maybe I missed the word Loam or topsoil amount, but is there a few inches, like 3-6 inches of topsoil on top of your red clay? It sounds like you seeded and fertilized the subsoil.

06-14-2009, 04:46 PM	#25 (permalink)
Lindy Junkie	I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. I'm sure you will have in your area a service run by the Department of Agriculture, or the Ag School at one of your state universities. It's called the Cooperative Extension Office, County Extension Agent, or something similar. Look in your local phone book. Here it is: Forsyth County > Cooperative Extension Service (ain't Google wonderful?) They get paid to help with problems just like yours. The Extension Office will be familiar with the soils in your area, as well as what grasses will thrive in your climate. You can take in soil samples which they will analyze for free or at nominal cost. Don't let the "Department of Agriculture" thing put you off. They work with city and suburban folks as well as farmers. Your problem sounds to me like you may have sod web worm. An infestation of little critters that live under the sod and eat the roots of your grass. Often associated with too much water and poor drainage, and your back yard looks like it has a bunch of low areas. The Extension Agent is your friend. And more to the point, you pay taxes to support that service, so use it. Lindy

06-14-2009, 04:47 PM	#26 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	I can't just tear up my backyard again though. I don't have the money to lay sod down on the whole backyard when I just spent $$$ to make it go from clay to grass. Is there no way to make this shit grow without ripping it all up and dumping manure and topsoil on it?? BTW I've noticed over the past week that my neighbors grass is finally starting to look like mine also. Sorta yellow/brown/white...but their grass didn't start out nice and green like mine. I think maybe the heat is just getting to it. __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

03-30-2010, 06:13 AM	#29 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	I say keep putting topsoil on it each year. Over time the soil underneath will become more ideal. No amount of seed or fertilizer will help if it keeps getting choked out by the soil. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

03-30-2010, 06:41 AM	#30 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Just dump top soil on it? How much? Wouldn't that take like 100 bags? __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

03-30-2010, 06:52 AM	#31 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	No, you want to sprinkle the topsoil out over the entire yard. You don't want to bury the grass - think of it as covering any exposed roots. It's probably closer to 5-10 bags. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

03-30-2010, 07:33 AM	#33 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	lasereth, why dont you go to a garden centre store in your local area and ask them? they may know others that have experienced something similar or may have knowledge of local conditions. that'd be my first point of contact __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

03-30-2010, 08:28 AM	#34 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	I've asked experts and they all say different stuff. Not enough water, too much water, too much sun, "it's supposed to die in the summer," fungus, too much shade, planted it at the wrong time, not enough fertilizer, need more lime, etc. I've heard it all. And I've tried it all also to no avail. The only thing I haven't done is get a soil sample kit. I haven't put down topsoil either though. I don't understand why my neighbors who are literally 15 feet away have green grass but not me. They do nothing special to their lawn. __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert Last edited by Lasereth; 03-30-2010 at 08:30 AM..

03-30-2010, 08:52 AM	#35 (permalink)
Hektore Junkie Location: Greater Harrisburg Area	If you haven't had your soil tested how do you know how much lime it needs, if any at all? I have a thought - find your neighbour with the best lawn and go ask them what they do to it. Don't ask them what to do with yours, just what is done to theirs. What kind of grass, watering, etc. If it were me, I would cover the whole lawn with a few inches of topsoil mixed with compost, maybe till it into the clay to a depth of about 5-6 inches overall, and start over doing whatever it is they do. __________________ The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

03-30-2010, 09:13 AM	#37 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	From the look of the houses and the size of the trees in the photos, it looks like a recently built housing development...plus, with what you mentioned in the OP about the mud pit. Am I right? Well, in my observations, the soil quality of the yards in these developments are a mixed bag. It wouldn't surprise me if your neighbours received a luckier "draw" with the soil on their plot compared to yours. I've seen some pretty nasty packed clay on these lots, and I've seen many strips of sod go completely dead upon them. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

03-30-2010, 09:23 AM	#38 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Yeah that could definitely be it. I'm picking up a soil sample kit today. __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

04-05-2010, 02:37 AM	#39 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	One thing I learned about clay soil from a grounds keeper is to put gypsum and milorganite down on theose areas in the spring and fall. The gypsum breaks up the soil and the milorganite filters down in deeper and also changes the chemistry of the soil to help it accept chemical fertilizers better. I've done that on a few bad areas three times now and it just gets better every year. Just don't wait too late in the fall or you could get brown spots as the two together create a reaction that produces heat. __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.