Work ethics for another generation?

[Skitto]

I don't have any.

I thought this might be a good topic for my generation:

We're brought up with such resources yet a lot of us are having a common problem in adapting to adult life.

i.e. Myself: Smart, determined, adaptable, but emotionally unsound and severe when it comes to the long-haul-work day.

Thus I've got, BIG problems!


I want to work
I dislike jobs

I need money,
but I dislike its necessity.




Help me?

[Martian]

My advice to you, as someone who I assume is part of 'your generation'...

Suck it up.

Responsibility sometimes means doing things you dislike. I definitely don't have the best job in the world, but I'd frankly rather be working.

If your job is so completely abhorrent to you that you simply dread going to work every day, then I'd say you're in the wrong field. But the bottom line is that work is not always fun and games. That's why it's work, and not, y'know, fun and games.

Welcome to the adult world. Enjoy your stay.

[Charlatan]

What Martian said.

[Baraka_Guru]

Find a job that's properly managed. There are several areas that affect employee satisfaction. Without sounding like an HR textbook (which, coincidentally, I'm reading right now), employees are motivated by such things as training and development, pay raises, support from managers, enjoyable working relationships with co-workers, and a feeling of their job making an impact in the company. Other factors of job satisfaction include: a good match for the position, working hours flexibility, work/life balance, job security, fair treatment, etc.

If you lack some or all of these things, you aren't in the right kind of job.

Many jobs (I'm guessing) are poorly managed.

[Willravel]

Originally Posted by Skitto

I want to work

What do you picture yourself doing as work?

[thespian86]

that's a big problem for me. I work in one of the only fields that your job is to get a job. One of the only things you can't just work hard in school and go DO.

So I've been working jobs that have nothing to do with my passion and I don't hate it as much as I can't seem to make myself sack up.

[high_jinx]

also... this is kind of general and subjective, but my friend gave me some great advice about any bs corporate job you might get that includes whack office politics...

gauge how much effort, energy and focus you put into your job, and scale it back to about 75 or 80%. made that your standard for delivering. that way if you ever get put on the hot seat or some kind of deadline or crunch time, you can kick yourself up to 90% and look like you're shining for your betters.

this is a much better approach than coming in at 100% or trying even harder from the get-go and having no juice to turn on when times get tough, or being forced to go @ 110%, burning your candle at both ends.

my other major golden rule is to just be generally good at talking to people, and avoiding burnt bridges. i'd say networking gets more jobs than any website or resume you might have, and you never know who might hook you up with your next oppurtunity.

[TM875]

Problems I have been running in to, being young and trying to work:

1) Older generations won't accept me in a position of authority over them (I was a department manager for some time) because I'm "just a baby"

2) 60 and 70 year old men tend to be in the highest positions of management. They have no idea what kind of working environment we want, therefore it's easy for people of our generation to get frustrated and feel like our wheels are spinning.

3) Simply put, all jobs want someone with experience. It's impossible to become experienced until someone takes the chance on you. Vicious cycle that prevents most from getting hired.

[Cynthetiq]

that's why it's called "Work"

as far as the generational thing, I don't know I see lots of people across the board that don't want to put in their "dues" or "effort" and expect to get paid a good salary and regular merit increases or bonuses.

[Skitto]

Yeah, I've heard all of this before, but I guess what my problem is - with my generation- and though it may sound like it's coming out of left field, it's that our generation is further from the woods than ever: my grandpa's generation had it better, they were coming almost directly out of the western U.S.'s ranching age.

Our standards are lower than we can even recognize, or at least I think they are.

I can't comprehend the kind of work ethic you grew up around in that generation so I can't even make a good enough estimate of how lazy we are...

[Grancey]

You are correct. You are lazy and you feel entitled, and many others of your generation are lazy as well. I don't blame you, but I do partly blame the parents of your generation. There is a point to this. My niece recently got her first job, and she is about to lose it. I have a contact where she works, so I get information that she does not know I get. She has had the job for about 5 weeks. She is already lagging behind two employees who were hired after her. She is not getting more shifts because she is not advancing with her abilities. She keeps asking for days off, and she is not forming working relationships with the other employees. In addition, she tells anyone who will listen about her boyfriend and their relationship which they all now think is "weird". (It is weird, but that's another story entirely) When she was in junior high school her mother went to the school and complained that her daughter had gotten a "B" instead of an "A" and successfully had the grade changed. Another time the mother pulled out her blackberry to show me the daughter's senior history class presentation that she had done for the daughter. It was quite elaborate and a large part of her grade. Now you see the source of this girl's problems. She is in college now, and I see a long and stormy road ahead of her. She should have been allowed to experience failure a few times before now. As it is, she is emotionally unprepared for failure and any mistakes she may make. And her work ethic sucks. To top it off, she doesn't understand why her job is in jeopardy.

[Slims]

No, I our generation is lazy BECAUSE we have it better.

There are more opportunities than ever for the ambitious and dedicated hard workers out there.

[Wrexify]

This is a big problem. There's a HUGE disconnect between Generation Y and older generations in the workplace. They love to label us as "lazy" and make us feel like we have no work ethics when in reality this isn't true. Many of the jobs we're trained for (especially in the tech industry) can be done entirely remotely in only a few hours a day. This is an idea that doesn't translate well among generations for some reason. The 9-to-5 grind is an old tradition that we can't seem to shake just yet.

Obviously, there are still plenty of jobs that require 40 hour work weeks to keep the world going; it all depends on the industry. Personally, I'm going to keep looking for something I love. I see no reason to settle for being miserable just so I can live more comfortably. Your best bet for finding a work environment more tailored to our generation? Young tech companies managed by people closer to your own age.

[ametc]

I am so much the same way.

I like money.. but I despise how I NEED money in order to live. It's simply unfair to HAVE to have money to have basic necessities like running water and electricity.

Also, I think having to kiss ass at a job isn't right. Maybe it's just nurses because that's all I've worked with.. but the high their position.. the bitchier they get.. and the more people seem to not mind their bitchiness. This simply isn't right and I should be treated with the same respect I give to people below me and above me. It's all the same.

My supervisor can say 'shit' to me but I can't say 'shit' to her? That is bullshit.

[Skitto]

Hm, all true, but I'm afraid my kind of work doesn't HAVE an industry.

Besides, I actually like to be an asshole on occasion; it gets things done quicker to be THAT kind of assertive. Within reason of course. I like bitchy people. I'm sort of a submissive personality, but because I grew up in a household where I learned how to thoroughly slaughter the sensibilities of my aggressor with a barrage of objective logic tilted to my favor, argument is a useful skeleton key to everything I might ever want or need.

Nevertheless, techno-jobs and inherited resources aside, I just can't bring myself to do something I can't see as ultimately necessary for MY survival.


Here's a little straight information on the subject of how my generation has been raised

YouTube - George Carlin - It's Bad For Ya (Part 4)

YouTube - George Carlin - It's Bad For Ya (Part 4)

(it's the worst case scenario, but I'm afraid that it'll be more common soon)


I am not nearly a worst case, and here's why.
It's that rebellious thing again, because what I really want, is
to pull up roots, dig a really big hole and live out of it.

There's the logical connection, and I was being severely ILLogical and counterproductive by ignorance,
I don't want to work because there's no real meaning in the long run, and yet to get that long-run goal, I've gotta work on my short-game.

I think there's some room for discussion on why there's this -this self-destructive pseudo-rebellious tendency- that my generation has to cope with. It's the thing that people like me (strong conscience, open minded, and weak willed) have to deal with... or face the consequences.

[ItWasMe]

Originally Posted by TM875

Problems I have been running in to, being young and trying to work: ...
2) 60 and 70 year old men tend to be in the highest positions of management.

They have probably worked for years putting in their dues to attain those positions.

Originally Posted by TM875

... They have no idea what kind of working environment we want ...

Wait ... what ?? ... You have lost me. The most important job of management is to know the needs of the company in order to keep it running. They likely know what working environment works best for the company in general. They often don't care what kind of 'environment' you want. They have a job that needs filled. They offer money for it. If you can live with their offer, you apply. If not, you go elsewhere and somebody else fills that slot. Simple as that.

The advice we were given when entering the workforce more than two decades ago was basically:

a) ask not what the company can do for you, but what you can do for the company.
b) don't expect anyone to cater to you. if you don't like the work environment, find another job.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's real life. (and according to theJazz, I can say that now, if I am polite)

[Lasereth]

BLAH BLAH generic comment about how N generation is lazy and the one before it wasn't. Blah blah blah. There are differences in generations but I don't think work ethics is one of them. There are lazy bastards that will always be lazy bastards in every generation. I work with some 30, 40, 50 year old absolute lazy idiots who don't "get" how to operate during employment, just like I work with 20 year olds that are the same way.

I think it's funny how if you know a relative or a friend who is from N generation, and they suck at working, the rest of that generation must suck also and are all spoiled brats who feel entitled and are lazy etc. Bullshit. When the good ole generation was young, the same shit went down too.

[high_jinx]

agreed lasereth... i see a lot of similarities with the people who chirp about "the good old days" and how much better things used to be and the % of our population that regardless of the countless people before them being wrong are convinced that we're the lucky people on the timeline of history to see it all fall apart in doomsday.

[Baraka_Guru]

I see a good work ethic in young people around me all the time. They usually come from outside of North America (or at least their parents do). Much of it is cultural. The biggest factor is individual. You are responsible for yourself; no one else is going to take the responsibility for you. I think many here in North America have lost that idea. It's time to reclaim it.

[aberkok]

Get a shitty job and work long hours. Either you'll get fired, sick of it, or both.

Then, this real experience will teach you to either work harder in order to keep the job next time, or work harder and climb the ladder/train, in order to get a less shitty job.

Rinse, repeat.

[inBOIL]

Originally Posted by ametc

It's simply unfair to HAVE to have money to have basic necessities like running water and electricity.

How else would you get these things? Somebody has to work to provide electricity and running water. If nobody's going to get paid to do that work, why would anyone do it? Maybe a few people who love the job would keep working for free, but there wouldn't be enough product to go around. And if the workers are going to be paid, who will pay them if not the people who use their product?

[Halanna]

Originally Posted by Skitto

Besides, I actually like to be an asshole on occasion; it gets things done quicker to be THAT kind of assertive. Within reason of course. I like bitchy people. I'm sort of a submissive personality, but because I grew up in a household where I learned how to thoroughly slaughter the sensibilities of my aggressor with a barrage of objective logic tilted to my favor, argument is a useful skeleton key to everything I might ever want or need.

I've read your posts, and the responses, and from what you have said, I think your calling is the law. You are not a "sort of submissive" personality, you are a passive aggressive personality.

You are absolutely correct. Argument is a useful skeleton key to everything you might ever want or need. Use it to your advantage. Use it for what you want to attain.

Originally Posted by Skitto

Nevertheless, techno-jobs and inherited resources aside, I just can't bring myself to do something I can't see as ultimately necessary for MY survival.

If you are the type of personality you appear to be, then successful argument, winning, accolades and money that comes from those WILL become necessary for your survival.

The problem is you haven't been able to replicate the praise and adoration you received as a child. You can do so as a successful defense attorney. Yep.

Originally Posted by Skitto

I am not nearly a worst case, and here's why.
It's that rebellious thing again, because what I really want, is
to pull up roots, dig a really big hole and live out of it.

I suspect that you wish you could go somewhere that no one knows you, start over and be instantly successful. You don't want to live in a hole, you want to live in a fabulous apartment, that others envy. You really just want to break the chains of who and where you are, you wish for a new identity, to break out, run, without preconceived notions of what you should be or become.

Originally Posted by Skitto

I don't want to work because there's no real meaning in the long run, and yet to get that long-run goal, I've gotta work on my short-game.

You do want to work. Certainly all of your friends and associates don't sit around all the time with nothing to do. You want to fill that time with what you believe is "meaningful". That may mean simply something that gives you a paycheck, or something that makes you satisfied with how you spend your working time. It's up to you. When you find what you are meant to do, you will want to work, because it will be your passion.

Originally Posted by Skitto

I think there's some room for discussion on why there's this -this self-destructive pseudo-rebellious tendency- that my generation has to cope with. It's the thing that people like me (strong conscience, open minded, and weak willed) have to deal with... or face the consequences.

Honestly, I'm not concerned with your entire generation. I see you posting and asking for answers. Maybe no one here has one, maybe someone will post a magic sentence that gives you a wake up or a direction to point yourself in.

To me, you show an aptitude for the law. Does that mean anything? No. Should you spend 15 minutes thinking about it? Yes.

You are not weak willed, you are without direction. You need to find where your compass is pointing and follow it.

[thespian86]

It's our unearned sense of entitlement. That sense of entitlement comes from an abundance of information and the advocacy of fair play and over-regulation.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally Posted by thespian86

It's our unearned sense of entitlement. That sense of entitlement comes from an abundance of information and the advocacy of fair play and over-regulation.

I thought it came from hip-hop and rock and roll music tied in with movies and papparazzi lifestyle.

[thespian86]

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I thought it came from hip-hop and rock and roll music tied in with movies and papparazzi lifestyle.

It's from the marijuana pills, Gun-it (mistakenly referred to as G-UNIT), and dances created by minorities.

[Slims]

Originally Posted by ametc

I am so much the same way.

I like money.. but I despise how I NEED money in order to live. It's simply unfair to HAVE to have money to have basic necessities like running water and electricity.

Also, I think having to kiss ass at a job isn't right. Maybe it's just nurses because that's all I've worked with.. but the high their position.. the bitchier they get.. and the more people seem to not mind their bitchiness. This simply isn't right and I should be treated with the same respect I give to people below me and above me. It's all the same.

My supervisor can say 'shit' to me but I can't say 'shit' to her? That is bullshit.

So it's unfair that others are not forced to provide resources they produced to support your survival regardless of whether you contribute?

You shouldn't have to kiss-ass at a job, but as long as you are being paid by someone, they make the rules. Follow them or get a new job.

Likewise, if I am paying someone and they curse at me they are gone, but I am not above a good ass chewing if they screw up in a bad way (costing me money)....learn from it and move on. If your boss is so incompetent she is cussing at you undeservedly, then outperform her and get promoted past her. The view will be different when you are looking down.

Granted, though, you *should* be around consumate professionals who both give and receive criticism equally well and tactfully, but we all work around real people and they are flawed.


When I needed a job, I took the first job I could find while I continued to look for better employment. Why not employ that model? Do what you can to the best of your ability while you continue your job search for the ideal job? If you wait around hoping to get the perfect job straight away you will likely go broke waiting, your skill set will become dated, and you will lose the benefits and lessons learned through interim employment.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally Posted by Slims

So it's unfair that others are not forced to provide resources they produced to support your survival regardless of whether you contribute?

You shouldn't have to kiss-ass at a job, but as long as you are being paid by someone, they make the rules. Follow them or get a new job.

Likewise, if I am paying someone and they curse at me they are gone, but I am not above a good ass chewing if they screw up in a bad way (costing me money)....learn from it and move on. If your boss is so incompetent she is cussing at you undeservedly, then outperform her and get promoted past her. The view will be different when you are looking down.

Granted, though, you *should* be around consumate professionals who both give and receive criticism equally well and tactfully, but we all work around real people and they are flawed.


When I needed a job, I took the first job I could find while I continued to look for better employment. Why not employ that model? Do what you can to the best of your ability while you continue your job search for the ideal job? If you wait around hoping to get the perfect job straight away you will likely go broke waiting, your skill set will become dated, and you will lose the benefits and lessons learned through interim employment.

agreed... I believe it has to do with eating the marshmallow test.

I've saved enough money so that I don't have to kiss ass to my boss at all. She says, "Jump!" I think about it, and decide if I want to jump or not.

Joachim de Posada says, Don't eat the marshmallow yet | Video on TED.com
I'm here because I have a very important message. I think we have found the most important factor for success. And it was found close to here, Stanford. Psychology professor took kids that were four years old and put them in a room all by themselves. And he would tell the child, a four year old kid, "Johnny, I am going to leave you here with a marshmallow, for 15 minutes. If after I come back this marshmallow is here, you will get another one. So you will have two." To tell a four year old kid to wait 15 minutes for something that they like, is equivalent to telling us, "We'll bring you coffee in two hours." (Laughter) Exact equivalent.

So what happened when the professor left the room? As soon as the door closed... two out of three ate the marshmallow. Five seconds, 10 seconds, 40 seconds, 50 seconds, two minutes, four minutes, eight minutes. Some lasted 14 and a half minutes. (Laughter) Couldn't do it. Could not wait. What's interesting is that one out of three would look at the marshmallow and go like this ... Would look at it. Put it back. They would walk around. They would play with their skirts and pants.

That child already, at four, understood the most important principle for success. Which is the ability to delay gratification. Self discipline, the most important factor for success. 15 years later, 14 or 15 years later, follow-up study. What did they find? They went to look for these kids who were now 18 and 19. And they found that 100 percent of the children that had not eaten the marshmallow were successful. They had good grades. They were doing wonderful. They were happy. They had their plans. They had good relationships with the teachers, students. They were doing fine.

A great percentage of the kids that ate the marshmallow, they were in trouble. They did not make it to university. They had bad grades. Some of them dropped out. A few were still there with bad grades. A few had good grades.

I had a question in my mind: Would Hispanic kids react the same way as the American kids? So I went to Colombia. And I reproduced the experiment. And it was very funny. I used four, five and six years old kids. And let me show you what happened.

(Laughter)

So what happened in Colombia? Hispanic kids, two out of three ate the marshmallow. One out of three did not. This little girl was interesting. She ate the inside of the marshmallow. (Laughter) In other words, she wanted us to think that she had not eaten it, so she would get two. But she ate it. So we know she'll be successful. But we have to watch her. (Laughter) She should not go into banking, for example, or work at a cash register. But she will be successful.

And this applies for everything. Even in sales. The sales person that -- The customer says, "I want that." And the person says, "Okay, here you are." That person ate the marshmallow. If the sales person says, "Wait a second. Let me ask you a few questions to see if this is a good choice." Then you sell a lot more. So this has applications in all walks of life.

I end with -- the Koreans did this. You know what? This is so good That we want a marshmallow book for children. We did one for children. And now it is all over Korea. They are teaching these kids exactly this principle. And we need to learn that principle here in the States. Because we have a big debt. We are eating more marshmallows than we are producing. Thank you so much.