Your daughter is overweight. She wants a bikini. WWYD?
 

It's not at all flattering to her. The child doesn't seem to care about her stomach hanging well over the suit. Would you discourage the suit or not? Would you have a different reaction at 8 than 15? Would your opinion change if her friends (or other kids at a party) were likely to say something unkind?


I'd probably let the child wear the two piece and make sure to get a one piece as a back up. One pieces are more practical for water slides and such. That said, I'd let the child wear whichever pleased them as long as they had both available. Then if she did get upset about being teased, she could have an alternate suit to wear.

Wow. I can't really put my finger on why, but this is a really upsetting topic. I'm a fat kid; or at least I used to be. Parents who ask questions like this made it harder. It encourages unhealthy body images, not a push to have a healthier lifestyle. If anything, the fact that she has no problem with her stomach speaks wonders about the child's self-confidence and having that as an overweight, 15 year old girl?! It's a miracle, not something to be shit on.

The idea of giving them a choice implies that there is an obvious flaw in her initial choice; that her body isn't good enough for a two-piece, so she should take the one piece because kids will be pointing and laughing. Fuck; I'd be more worried about the douchebags she was hanging out with then the kind of clothing she wears.

Has anyone ever seen the film "Spanglish"? This reminds me of the scene where Bernie (who is a beautiful, intelligent, talented kid) is emotionally crippled because of her parent's "well intentioned shopping spree" where everything is two sizes too small.

I would make sure she lived a healthier lifestyle, while also encouraging the fact that she is super confident about what kind of a person she is. I would hate to destroy a spirit like that.

Being overweight is unhealthy. I'd be more concerned about her health than her appearance in a two piece.

I find the best way to help motivate someone close to you is to join them. I've got like 5 consistent running friends now. It's easier for them to be motivated to exercise and eat right when I'm there to help them.

I would allow her to wear whatever she chooses as a bathing suit. Yes, she may be teased, but the last thing she needs is for her parents to give the justification for it by recommending against a bikini.

I would also encourage her to swim, actually, since it's a great form of exercise and would assist in removing those unhealthy pounds.

If you are overweight, you should work to not be overweight.

It's a health problem. Being of a proper weight isn't some image or lifestyle, its simply the best way to be, and society encourages that.

The fact that she has no problem with being overweight is NOT a good thing. Infact, it is only setting the stage for more problems later on.

There is nothing good about being fat, and promoting 'fat acceptance' is not a good thing, its just being PC for the sake of being PC. People should try and be as healthy as possible, and parents should encourage that.

It boggles my mind why anyone would actually want to be fat, and not work to prevent it, or fix the problem.

Ever been there?

It's not being PC at all and you're completely missing the point. It's not about encouraging being fat, it's about putting a child in the best position to change their lives. Instilling the idea of failure on a child often leads to a lack of confidence. How many people so you know, Stare, that have a serious lack of confidence that succeed at almost everything they do; are even happy?

I'm so happy being who I am and nothing has to do with my weight or the fact that I'm fit; I love the kind of guy I've become, and the kind of life I live. In fact, the more and more I tried to lose it when I hated it, the worse it got. I accpeted it and lost 70 pounds. I'd rather that then hate what and who I am. Its people like you who think it's okay to tell someone they are failing because they can't overcome something with ease, in hopes that it will encourage them to win. Not everyone operates on the same level; not everyone succeeds instantly. Man, I use to peer mentor kids who were amazing people but were seriously fucked up because their parents "encouraged" them to live better lives by forcing generalized bullshit like "societal norms" on people.

I know that you're saying "healthy is healthy" but we are talking about kids; even worse, teens.

And I don't care how geeky, or fat, or ugly, or smelly, or whatever my kid is; if they are happy then the rest will come to them. I'll help them.

Your entire post was a gross oversimplification of the issues at hand. There are an innumerable amount of factors that can cause or contribute to a person being over weight. If it's nothing more than a matter of will power in your own life then more power to you. But I think the billion dollar weight loss industry demonstrates the opposite for most people.

Problems like what? Being inclined to judge yourself and others by more than appearance alone? Self-esteem based upon how you feel about yourself? The ability to meet difficult social situations head-on? Most kids would be lucky to be so unfortunate.

- -

I'd encourage my kid to do exactly as she pleases and I'd hope that she'd wear that two-piece and own it. Looking good because she feels good.

*hugs*
Everything you've said in this thread feels like it has come out of my head. I too find it an upsetting topic, as I was always very negative about my body and myself as a whole since at least 9, and it felt like what everyone said made it worse, not better, negative encouragement doesn't work for everyone. Sometimes you just have to let them figure it out on their own time.
For me, all that negative encouragement felt like the other person was being too controlling, its only a downward spiral from there, really.

Anyways, I agree with everything you've said. :) As long as the kid is happy, everything else will come to them in their own time. :thumbsup:

Let her wear what she wants. I grew up with my parents telling me I was fat and making fun of me if I wore clothes that "fit" instead of being mega baggy and it fucked me up real bad. I had terrible insecurity and was REALLY bad self-conscious until I went to college because of the way my parents treated me and how they called me fat.

Being fat isn't a good thing and she needs to get in shape but if she has self-confidence right now then let it flourish.

I was a fat kid. My brother constantly made fun of me, it was only when my dad told me I was fat and needed to lose weight did it hit me. I lost 30lbs in 2 months by dedicating myself. 10 years later I'm still the fittest in my family, being blunt doesn't cause everyone to break down.

This hits close to home...Lifeguarding this summer and I see MANY cases of young girls in bikinis with their stomachs hanging out...and no care at all on their part or the parents. What's worse is that the parents are more overweight and baring more than their children...good role models for the future.
I suppose the way I feel about this topic is pretty harsh...so I'll pick my words carefully. If this was my daughter...and she was overweight and I concerned over kids laughing at her...I'd concern about the path of my parenting that led to this predicament. I would buy her the one piece no questions. Then reconsider what got her to this point and make lifestyle changes.
One thing I've noticed throughout this summer is the amount of overweight people baring it all at the pool, pretending their lifestyle is acceptable. I am a firm believer in exercising and maintaining a healthy weight and lifestyle. I guess I was the most disgusted the other day when I was working and I was talking to a client and I asked her why they were at the pool during the dinner lull and her response was "Oh I never make dinner since McDonald's is open so close now." This was not a small woman either...very overweight as well as her daughter. I guess that was when I decided the world and the next generation of kids are going to hell and a hand basket. It's upsetting that it seems the next generation majority will end up like the people on Wall-E. *Shrug*

I got turned down for a part; I lost 73 pounds. I get laid more, I work out a lot, I get more parts; but my happiness still doesn't hinge on losing that extra two pounds to make my goal weight. My whole life was a little bit harder because of people trying to "push me" or "encourage me". At that point, when I had lost wait, I had come to terms with who I was as a person.

I liked myself; so I did what made me happy. Being on stage, doing what I do, is what I loved. That stood in my way. So I changed it. Against all of the "encouragement".

EDIT: GG, I agree and I think I should clarify instead of just yapping back.

If it's a question between my fairly young daughter being fit or confident, I choose confidence. It's a very good and almost impossible characteristic to obtain.

If it's my fairly young daughter being over weight and indifferent, that's a whole new ball game. Indifference to health isn't what I'm talking about. I'm in the best shape I've ever been, and I love my body. I'm just talking about an issue of self-confidence and I can't say that I promote the idea of your self-confidence being tied in with what your body looks like. Especially for a teenaged girl. No dice.

And maybe this is an issue of "walk in my shoes" and not an issue of "neglectful parents". Maybe it's the other way around.

Has she been teased before and just doesn't care? Does she have friends who accept her whatever she wears?

I think parents should look out for the psychological health of their children as well. How should a parent react if they see her getting teased? And would it be possible to go to more private swimming areas to reduce the likelihood of something bad happening? How would a parent help this girl if her feelings and self-esteem was hurt?

I would worry about what will happen 5 or 10 years from now. I know I have had some things happen in my past that could have been avoided. And I wouldn't mind going back and making different choices for my younger self. Then again, I wouldn't have wanted my parents to have been making all of my choices and picking out what I wear or what I do and whatever. There has to be some balance to letting the kid/teen make their own decisions, but protecting them if they make a wrong decision.

I'd encourage my daughter to wear a one piece simply because young girls don't need to be wearing bikinis, IMO.

I wonder why I didn't write this myself! I wasn't allowed to wear a bikini until I could buy it myself...I was 16! Where is the modesty nowadays? My mother had the good sense to not let me parade around in revealing outfits when I was 12 and unlike like so many young girls do now. :eek: I guess being a cool mom is more important than being a good mom...My mom and I are just now crossing into the friends area...and I'm 20.

I'm surprised that there are so many girls that wear two piece suits too. But I would assume that there are some advantages to them.

Let her wear it.

How else is she going to put in a Craigslist BBW personal ad?

I'm a pretty harsh guy I guess, as I'd tell her not to wear it because only bad can come out of it. If she insisted, I might let her, if just to prove a point. I frown on being fat being considered OK or beautiful, when it's just a sign of poor health.

Tell me ONE good thing about being overweight.

Just one thing that is better about being overweight, then being of a proper weight.

You can't..because there are no pro's to being fat. It's all cons.

The sooner people accept that the better we will all be. I'm not saying its easy to lose weight, nor am I saying overweight people should be shunned, or anything else. I am saying that having an attitude of acceptance should not be kosher.

Think what you want, but any parent that lets their child be overweight is not doing their job as a parent, and is only setting their kid up for a shitty life down the road.

The most logical answer I've read yet! :thumbsup:
-----Added 3/8/2008 at 10 : 39 : 53-----
These type of comments just anger me. I am overweight, and honestly, why do you care? Do have the same disgust and scorn for healthy weight smokers? What about athletes that drink? Same amount of finger pointing? Really, why do you care what health problems a person may have because they are overweight? How does it affect YOUR quality of life? And don't feed me some bullshit line about how your tax paying money is going to pay for these peoples health problems. There are millions of other health problems burdened on THIN otherwise "Healthy people" as well.

I agree that maintaining a healthy lifestyle is the best choice in the long run, I am not trying to say otherwise. But to say that I shouldn't enjoy my life because I am overweight is just stupid.

The problem with people like you, is that you think that every overweight person is exactly like the woman that was described by the pool: overweight, letting it all hang out, and explaining she'd rather eat her meals at mcdonalds than go through the hassle of cooking them. That is not the case. I for example, am predispositioned to being overweight: i come from a large family. I have a desk job, that does not allow me to be very active. I've had 2 babies (both a healthy weight I might add) and I don't eat at fast food restaurants every day. We are a low income family, which makes it difficult to always buy and eat right (a 69cent box of KD is alot more affordable at times!) Of course I *could* be doing an aerobic work out right now instead of sitting here typing this, couldnt I? But I guess that'd be my choice and not yours. My husband used to be thinner, but being a long haul truck driver, he's gained weight. Are you saying he shouldn't be able to enjoy a day at the beach with his shirt off because you think his belly has a little jiggle to it?

And so you're saying, not only do I have the pressure of raising my kids to be good people, to know right from wrong, to teach them to look both ways before crossing the street, to to be kind and patient and polite and share, to know their ABC's by kindergarten, but that I ALSO have to worry about other people evaluating my parenting skills, based on my child's weight????

Of course I don't agree with parents setting their kids in a bad eating pattern: i.e. not teaching them the importance of healthy foods, and feeding them sugar filled fattening foods instead. But it's really none of my business.

Maybe I should calm down and point out that I am thinking of two different classes of overweight people:

There are people who are overweight who, even though they are overweight themselves, encourage their children to eat healthy and be healthy. (such as myself) I'm not totally happy with my weight, but I am accepting and realize that I have just given myself a hard enough push yet to do anything about it. Again, MY problem, not yours. Why shouldn't I feel confident and good about myself. Should I have to live each day in disgust for myself, reminding myself how disgusting society finds me? You talk about long term health effects of being overweight, but you are not thinking about the long term mental health effects that you are instilling and encouraging by having such an ignorant attitude.

Then there are people who just don't care about anything related to health, and I DO feel sorry for kids who are raised that way. But maybe one thing I have to accept is that I can't change that. But just because these kids are raised in poor conditions, doesn't mean they should be riducled for it.

It must be odd living in a world that is so black and white, so clear-cut. The world I live in has exceptions and caveats, at the very least.

@ Girl.

I have no problem with people being overweight, but I do have a problem with people being "OK" with that "lifestyle".

Like I said in my previous post, I'd really like to hear one benefit, one plus, one upside to being overweight. Just one little pro to outweigh an overwhelming amount of cons.

Children don't deserve to be burdened by being fat, they deserve a healthy upbringing, and to be fat is to be unhealthy, no two ways around it.

And you saying that you're predisposed to being overweight is not something I buy. If you really wanted to change, you could.

I don't care what people wear, or how fat they are. But I do care when they try and make that lifestyle acceptable, and when they allow their kids to weigh more then I do, at 23, when they are 12.

You also say:

"Why shouldn't I feel confident and good about myself. Should I have to live each day in disgust for myself, reminding myself how disgusting society finds me? You talk about long term health effects of being overweight, but you are not thinking about the long term mental health effects that you are instilling and encouraging by having such an ignorant attitude."

Why shouldn't you remind yourself? As I've said before, there is nothing good about being overweight, and putting a kid through that when they really have no choice is even worse. If you screw their diet from day one, and don't help instill an active lifestyle, you're just setting them up for a shit life later on.

People that are on the thin side are more socially acceptable, it's nothing against people that are overweight, its just the way it is. People prefer to be healthy, have toned bodies, and not be fat. It's not the nicest thing to say, but its the truth. People that are overweight are the polar opposite of what society values aesthetically in individuals. So it seems odd to me that any parent would want their kid to be fat, or not act to prevent such a thing.

I'm kinda rambling and such here, but all I'm trying to say is that kid deserves a better shot at life, and unless she starts now, she is just setting herself up for failure. I don't really care how non-PC it is to say this, but the truth of the matter is simple. If you are fat, you will have a much harder go at all things social then someone that is not. You will have more health problems then someone that is not. This list goes on and on for some time. The bottom line, the bikini isn't the issue in the original post, its the weight the parent should be worried about.

I hope you realize the irony of "If you are fat, you will have a much harder go at all things social then someone that is not." Its attitudes like yours that make this statement true.

And for the record. This isn't an issue of PC, it's an issue of being humane. People are people. I'm going to make sure my kids are driven, intelligent, well spoken, educated, kind and loyal. My kids are going be great people FIRST. Then maybe great LOOKING people second.

Fat people are far less disgusting then people who feel the world works better without them.

I can admire that you stick to your guns but that doesn't make your position any more defensible. You think that weight loss and weight gain is all a matter of choice - fat people and their bad choices versus healthy people and their good choices.

Ridiculous. So much so that I'm finding it increasingly difficult to contradict that without coming off as a complete asshole. Apply a little common sense.

And what do you suggest they do? Stay home in shame of their weight because you think they look bad?

This topic is too fish in a barrel for me.

And yet, with all that, noone has given me a single Pro to being overweight. Which is simply because none exist.

You might not like what I'm saying, but it doesn't make it any less true. If you're fat, you're going to have a tougher go at life, and any parent should realize that.

The extra weight certainly did not hurt the careers of John Candy or Chris Farly. Of course there both dead now but you get the idea....

What about those who are big, i.e. they have a large frame and tend to have a little extra jiggle, or those that have genetic disorders(thyroid for instance) that make them more predisposed to packing on some extra pounds? Would you consider their parents sub-par?

I think I understand what you're saying though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your big hang-up is with people who don't take care of themselves, and parents who don't teach and then reinforce in their kids the value of proper diet and exercise. I totally agree with that.

Exactly!

It's a bad cycle, they lose their values, and the motivation to do anything about it.

Can you really be that dense? Since it really is a matter of pros and cons then tell us exactly what can be done for those with thyroid issues. Or those who have no markets with fresh foods near them? What about those who can't afford anything but fast food? Explain how their will and desire has failed them then.

While I stand by my sentiments I realize that my words came out a bit more harsh than I intend them to. I offer my most sincere apologies to whomever I may have offended.

Give her the bikini. Really, you folks need to get over this obsession with fat people.

Can you really be that dense?

There is medication for thyroid conditions, and most conditions that can help keep the weight off. Again, the real problem that Stare and I have is that too many people are fat because they don't take care of themselves. Genetic disorders don't fall into that category.

I don't know many people, at least in the US, who can't find fresh fruits and vegetables at their local grocer and even the poorest individuals I've known could afford food at the grocery store.

Mother of an overweight daughter here. Gather 'round and tell me about my failings as a parent.

My daughter is fat and I can tell you many good things about her that other 'thin' people don't share. That's because she's a not a 'fat person.' She is a person who happens to be fat. We have lived a healthy lifestyle. Her sisters and I are not fat. I always tried to encourage her to wear clothes that I thought 'looked good on her' but in the end it was always her decision. And we have very, very different tastes in clothing.

My daughter is happy and talented and intelligent. Those who matter see her for how she is. I taught my daughter that anyone who would judge her and then sum her up for how she looks is an asshole. Words and action are all that matter.

What's more, what life as a person who is fat has taught my daughter is to be more tolerant and accepting of people who are different. And she is fiercely loyal to this principal. And frankly, I wouldn't want her any other way. Maybe she will lose the weight one day, she is still young, and maybe she won't, but it's nobody else's fucking business and if you run up against the wrong side of my daughter one day - she'll tear you a new one. I wish more fat people had the self-confidence to stand up for themselves. Some people just need to be put in their place. Hell in a handbasket, indeed.

I think your point could be driven home just the same without the insult.
-----Added 3/8/2008 at 06 : 50 : 13-----
see above...

I don't believe I would allow my daughter to get fat in the first place. If you teach healthy lifestyle habits from the beginning there will be no hard adjustments or teasing as your kid will never be overweight. However, if you have failed to teach your child good lifestyle habits and she became fat, I would tell her flat out. How will being dishonest with her help her in any way? If I chose to wear something that looked ridiculous, I would hope that those close to me would respect me enough to tell me before I humiliated myself.

I fail to see how weight gain, or loss, isn't a matter of choice. You either choose to supersize that double quarter pounder meal or you choose to not stuff your face with far more calories than your body is able to burn.

I am a very active person, who works out daily and lives an active lifestyle, which means I burn a lot more calories than the average person. However, I have yet to meet an obese person who doesn't eat more than me on a daily basis.

My parents are both oveweight, and sedentary. They eat three full meals a day (with seconds) and are continually astonished when I eat less than them.

I put on a few pounds when I was finishing up my trip to Afghanistan. I can chalk it up to stress, glands, or whatever, but in the end I put on weight because I stopped lifting and working out the way I had been, and I kept my calorie intake high. When I got back and looked in the mirror I was ashamed enough to work to fix the problem. And by work I mean I actually *worked* out, and didn't just *go* to the gym. When I diet, I don't just eat less, I eat less than my body uses which drives weightloss. I have never met a person for whom this won't work.

I will caveat that by saying I realize Diabetes, Congestive Heart Failure, etc. can make weight management extremely difficult. But the valid excuse of a sick few doesn't apply to the vast mooing masses who continue to drive food prices up while making excuses for their obsession with McDonalds.


Oh, and as far as how our countries obesity epidemic impacts me:
It is driving up my helthcare costs; when I ride public transportation I frequently have to share my seat with the fat person sitting next to me; being military, I have seen several fat people who are unable to do their jobs, thus forcing us non-fat people to do more work; it is hard to find a non lard-ass sized meal at a restaurant these days; I have to buy tailored dress shirts as store bought ones are huge around the waist; Clothes in general are hard to shop for as companies always seem to have that 46X30" pair of jeans but 30X32" often isn't even made anymore.

Fat peoples thick layer of fat is rather soft, so they are more comfortable to lay against for long periods of time. Next time your on an airplane trapped next to a pudgy person give it a try!


I really dont care whether or not a fat person or kid wears a two piece... I can look the other way.

I think the bigger problem is even considering letting an 8 year old wear a two piece bikini! 15 is just getting to the age where I would consider it maybe appropriate.

Yeah... I had the experience with the fat guy on my last plane ride. His belly was covering 2/3 of my seat and he forgot his deodorant. Sorry... I don't care how soft he is... I expect the fat guy to pay for half my seat next time if they're going to take it over again.

Yes, yes, yes.

The problem with the "healthy" argument is that we are examining two different things Stare. You are looking at what it is to be an animal; how we function physically. We are discussing the positives of being a good person.

And Mix for the win. Positives for being a fat person? I am kind, considerate, intelligent, funny, well spoken, thoughtful, loving, intense, analytical, and strong person because I was a fat kid growing up. I learned how to survive as a person, not a thing. I wasn't given an easy route to do anything because I was fat and now I'm self-sufficient.

If we are going to play the discrimination game then all "good looking thin people" (what a fucking ignorant and offensive idea) are all soulless douche bags who get by on the fact that they are thin and good looking. They have nothing to say of substance because they have never been in a position to learn something of substance. They end up drifting into meaningless jobs because they have nothing to prove to anyone because no one has ever made them work for anything. They are losers with pretty faces.

That was fun.

In reality, most of the people I've met in my life who are "unconventional" are the most well rounded, interesting people. They hate themselves though. They owe you guys a fruit basket I guess.

Ask the offensive line of the Dallas Cowboys if they see any advantages to being fat.

Don't tell me they're muscular, they are FAT, and strong, but not muscular.

I carry extra pounds, way more than I want, but then I'm also able to hike long distances with a heavy pack on my back. I have yet to hike with a skinny dude who could keep up, including an army soldier friend.

At any rate, there's easily as many tubby boys out there wearing shorts and no shirt. Should they wear a onesie?

I thought you were my friend!


That's not much of a point. I somehow doubt the offensive line of the Dallas Cowboys just sits around drinking beer and gaining weight. They not only are already built from the get-go as human tanks, but they practice and exercise.

As for the hiking example, who said skinny guys are all that strong? They're not in peak physical condition either, and they should be criticized just like fat people.

What I'm getting from the OP is that the daughter just plain isn't in any form of shape. You get exercise and also happen to pack a few extra pounds, whereas from my understanding this girl is just plain fat. Whether or not she's fine with that, it's still not healthy, and that's the biggest issue along with the possibility that her self-confidence now in her younger years will eventually give way to depression.

I should have specified I was answering Stare at The Sun's multiple queries about advantages of being fat. But I have to say, many of those behemoth OL guys DO put away more food in a day than most families eat in a week, and yes, they do drink beer. These are guys who spend their twenties in the NFL, make a few millions, and retire by 30.

The skinny point was not so much that my friend is skinny, in fact he's probably about average. It was that he's had training, could be called up to Iraq at any minute, and he can't hump a load nearly as easily as I can. Again, this is to refute arguments that being overweight does not mean a person is a zero sum being in terms of fitness. I am stronger and have much better endurance than this person who falls completely in the accepted norms.

Shut up pretty boy.

Finally get to respond...

@Punk
I agree that there is a fine line between confidence and indifference. If the child was confident with herself then my thoughts on the subject would be very different opposed to if she was indifferent.

@Girl
I don't recall anyone writing that you should not be allowed to enjoy your life simply because you are an overweight person. I do understand that some people are predisposed to being obese due to genetics...however I do not tolerate it when they use that as an excuse for not making changes to their lifestyle. My reason?
I come from a family that is predisposed to being overweight, my mother has struggled with it since she was a child. She works out and although she's not a size 5 shes healthy and is constantly working to improve herself. She works, she has a lot of her shoulders and she finds the time. Her entire side of the family has struggled with it. I suppose I don't accept that crutch because if one knows their family has a history of it, they should work even harder to instill a healthier lifestyle in themselves and their children. I have been active since I could remember and because of that I am active in maintaining a healthy lifestyle despite being busy working and finishing my degree. I can't change whats in my genes however I can do all I can to prevent becoming overweight. We're all busy, yet people still find the time if they care enough to. Exercising helps to boost ones energy and is an overall great stress reliever. Coming from a lower income family can be hard I'm sure, however its only what you make of it.

Also, when I mentioned I don't care for seeing overweight people in smaller bathings that was an opinion. It is not my fault that my judgment is a perception of society and their intolerance toward an unhealthy lifestyle displayed in front of them. Personally I prefer to look at people who are in shape and take care of themselves. Again, just a preference and opinion. I do hope you and your husband don't feel embarrassed about being in public in your swim suits, if you're happy with how you then that is what matters.

Another thing...I don't believe my attitude is ignorant compared to yours. I'm not the one getting upset about the topic...I'm again just stating an opinion on the scenario and shedding light on some experiences.I've taken enough personal fitness and wellness classes which have taught me the health risks associated with being overweight. Those are risks I don't care to take. I stand by my decision, if she was overweight she would get a one piece and a change in lifestyle. I would work with her to get her down to a healthy weight and reward her with a newer suit of her choice within reason and modesty.

@ Manic
What do I suggest they do?
I suggest they realize that society has an intolerance toward obesity because it is self destructive and unhealthy. People concern over the obesity rates going up because it is one of the most preventable causes of death in the nation, like smoking. Again its up to the lifestyle choices.

You can shut up too pretty chick.

Seriously though, at the risk of sounding condescending, I think the idea of it being completely health related is very naive. It wouldn't be such a stigma socially if it was a health issue. The problem is purely cosmetic. Perhaps you and a handful of people are saying "That is disgusting because they are unhealthy" but 99% of the people in the world are thinking "That's disgusting; look at those fat slobs, why don't they just stop eating and exercise. God, buy some clothes that fit you, and stop eating shit all the time".

I never had anyone say to me growing up "Hey man, that's so unhealthy" but I heard a lot of "Hey Fatty". People don't say that when they are post-junior high but, hell GG, they think it. That's why I'm talking about tolerance. It isn't about ignoring the obesity; it's about ignoring the social ignorance.

It's not that black and white and the fact that you used a "I was sad because a parent said they buy late night fast food for their kid" as an example furthers it; even though you don't mean to.

I touched base on both the unhealthy lifestyle and the social aspect of it. I've never denied that I don't care for the appearance, I simply explained why the appearance is intolerable from my POV. One can't be understood without the other...

Lots of things here.

First of all, overweight is a broad term. Are you talking about a couple of extra pounds or a hundred extra pounds? The "heath risks" are vague and largely dependent on the magnitude of being overweight. Is someone really at risk if they are 20 pounds overweight?

Second of all, do not assume that because someone is overweight that they are lazy and have an unhealthy attitude about life. I work with a guy that is at least 50 pounds overwieght. He's also an avid mountain biker and spends tons of time on his bike. I guarantee you that he's in better cardiovascular shape than most of us here.

People get on high horses because they are thing and think its just so easy. Therefore, fat people are lazy. It's not like that at all.

To the young people here who want to look down on people for being overweight: Just wait. There is a difference between your body at 22 and 32, 42, etc. When I was 22, I ate like a madman and was 20 pounds underweight. Ten years later, I'm pretty mindful of what I eat and I'm about 20 pounds overweight. If anything I consume less calories per day than I used to when I was younger. My activity levels haven't changed much.

I assumed that the OP was referring to the girl in question being out-of-shape and fat, and apathetic about the issue. As a guy who is heavier than the suggested weight for my height, I too take issue with the focus on weight. I'm 5'10" and 220 but I can lift a lot, carry a heavy load, and am in pretty good shape. Those who are 5'10" 250 but sit on their asses and are fat are the ones who I take issue with. There is a difference between being big and in shape and being big and unhealthy.

So it's not fat people who are the problem. Just people fatter than you.

Gotcha.

You missed the point entirely. It's people who don't take care of themselves, i.e. stuff their gaping maws with junk food and then do nothing but sit on the couch and watch TV. This can also be carried over to the field of hygiene as well. I dislike people who don't take care of themselves, in general.

What really pisses me off about this comment is exactly what I've been talking about all along; what a generalization.

I know people who are skinny who sit around stuffing themselves with crap. Complain about them.

Naw. They're skinny, so they're good people. He's talking about the bad people: the fat ones. :rolleyes:

Maybe it's just a British thing or a "comfort with bodies" thing, but my parents put me in bikinis before I was even old enough to make demands about what I wanted to wear. They even let me go topless (just bikini bottoms) on the beach because a lot of the time I'd take the top off anyway. There are pictures of me wearing hot pink bikini bottoms on a beach in Florida when I was only about 4 years old. Is that wrong from your point of view?

As for the OP: I would probably go for a compromise, a tankini. That way some embarrassment/teasing may be avoided, yet she retains some freedom of choice and learns the value of compromise. There is almost always an "in-between" when it comes to clothes, and as long as that in-between is reasonable, I'll probably compromise on it with my future child(ren).

Every place I've lived, it's pretty standard for young girls to just wear bikini bottoms until 6 or 7. In fact this reminds me of a time I went swimming, and there was a girl there, not much older than a toddler, doing just that. Until some boy laughed at her even though he had bigger breasts. So she rant out of the water and covered herself up.

Normally I wouldn't call a kid an asshole, but that boy has a great future in douchebaggery.

It's pretty obvious by the vitriol with which many come down on those who are overweight that it is not entirely a concern for the health of that person. If that were the case, they'd be coming down with the same fervor (and language - "stuffing their maws?") on smokers.

I agree that obesity is a problem and a significant one at that, and I will admit that I find truly obese (and highly overweight) people disgusting to look at, but I'm not so cowardly as to hide it behind a guise of concern for their "health."

I will, given the proper venue. This thread is specifically discussing fat people, not skinny people who don't take care of themselves. But to be quite honest, I don't know that many people who don't exercise and subsist on a large portion of shitty food. Most people I've known who do that are fat and unhealthy; and believe it or not, I was once in the same boat. Instead of moping and looking for an easy way out or people's acceptance of my unhealthy lifestyle, I joined the football team and actually started trying to eat healthier and got more exercise.

Jinn, I could give a shit about their health; my family and friends being the exceptions. It's their decision to become obese and suffer the health problems associated with it, but that also means that they will get no sympathy from me about being fat and how horrible it is.

And I thank you for your honest. This sort of thing is something I can understand and even agree with. It's the intellectual dishonesty of the people in this thread who claim that they don't like obese people because they're unhealthy. It has nothing to do with the other person's health, but their own personal dislike for the aesthetics of being overweight.

It's just that, in this thread at least, "no sympathy" looks a whole lot like "full on assault".

All I have to say is that I'm starting to receive PM's about your words; people thanking me for what I'm saying. Think about the weight of your words. That's the only weight I'm concerned about right now.

Then I will kindly bow out of the conversation as I don't know of any way to sugarcoat the message I am trying to get across.

I figured this is the response I would get. It's not about what you're saying, it's how your saying it.

Don't stop speaking, but speak diplomatically.

I am abrasive in the opposite sense. I'm trying to find a better way of speaking about this; it's a sensitive subject.

EDIT: I'm, sincerely, out of my league I think. I care about this a lot but in this case there is no right answer so I think I'm out. Not as a "being a dick, sarcastic out" but I don't think I have anything to add. Just so you know.

EDIT PS: I [insert compliment] Mixed Media. I probably say it too much. I'm fine with that.

Actually, I think the problem is that some folks are speaking too diplomatically.

It sounds too harsh to say, 'I don't like fat people.' 'I don't like the way fat people look.'

Instead it's couched in all these proclamations about health. That only makes it more offensive, in my opinion.

If you want to hold on to judgments about fat people and the way they live their lives then just own up to it. No one really believes that you're concerned about health.

There have always been people who are fat. There always will be. It will be tough business to convince me that most of the sudden convictions about fat people isn't media driven. Just like with smoking.

Just get over it. There are still plenty of skinny people left to look at. Lots of average size people, too. Get over yourselves. You think fat is the only thing that makes someone an unattractive seat mate on an airplane?

MixedMedia, thank you. With that, I'm out of this thread along with Punkfan. I hope there are no hard feelings.

The girl in the OP is 8. No doubt at this age, she has been tease through school. She wants to wear a bikini (which I take to mean just a two piece suit and not anything from the pages of Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue); let her. Maybe she is on her way to losing weight and becoming smaller. Maybe she ate a sensible breakfast before going to the pool and will make good food choices during the day. She is at the pool and is 8 years old, most likely she will be running/swimming all day which is pure exercise gold. Let her wear something she feels comfortable in so she feels good enough to make the good choices and not the loathe her body because when you have learned to loathe your body, losing weight doesn't make it go away.

perhaps, but who is to say there is no freedom to be fat?

If being fat is unhealthy and thus bad, then should smoking be banned? Food is necessary for existence while smoking tobacco is not.

I'd think in life, a person should be free to live how he/she wants, is not hurting anybody in the process and is willing to accept the consequences of his/her behavior. Merely being overweight is not prohibited by the Bill of Rights.
-----Added 7/8/2008 at 06 : 06 : 54-----
Queen Latifah is overweight, but plenty of guys dig her. if someone finds overweight women attractive, then how is that different from saying blondes, long haired women or East Asian women are attractive? It's just another personal and subjective taste.

I'll let the kid wear what she wants. Then I'll just tackle the overweight issue later.

Giving her an option of 1 piece and 2 piece suit is okay too. As long as you dont imply that you prefer the 1 piece.

In response to the OP, in teaching my child I find that words are often meaningless when they're younger, and the media and their peers will offer plenty of criticism when they're older. My role is to support her decisions because I trust her judgement and reasoning.

If she's comfortable wearing it, I'd be proud that she dresses for herself and her own level of comfort. If she's obese, I might encourage her to wear a cover-up on top. If someone doesn't like the way it looks, they can turn away.

Besides, everyone's perceived level of what is fat differs. I see skinny girls with fat hanging over their bikinis/jeans. Who decides which is worse?

Yep.

Same car, turning down a different road.

I disagree. Your weight, appearance, and health have no effect on me. I couldn't care less. Second hand smoke does affect me and I do care. The media has nothing to do with either.

So you don't think that coverage in the media on the effects of smoking and now obesity has anything to do with public awareness of them?

I will never date a smoker because I can't stand the smell of smoke. Just like I don't see myself dating a heavily overweight woman because I don't find that attractive.

Has media had an effect on my opinion on fat? To a degree. Most of it was cultural. Where I'm from, fat people tried to cover it up. It wasn't celebrated as being comfortable in your own skin or what have you. Upon coming to the States, I was exposed to more cellulite than I care to think about and I find that unattractive to say the least.

As for second hand smoking, I don't need the media to tell me how to behave around smokers. The sore throat I get from inhaling second hand smoke and disgusting smell is more than enough reason for me for support the in-door smoking ban.

Me personally? I don't watch enough TV for it to have much impact on opinions. I've always hated smoking and have always preferred athletic women, meaning women that can keep up with me on skis or hikes, not size0. In both cases, it's a matter of practicality. I hate tobacco smoke ... period. I don't do boredom well, either, if my wife didn't ski, hike, snowshoe, and ride her own motorcycle, I'd never see her. :)

I don't think the comparison between smoking and weight is appropriate here.


On topic, I'm 5'11" and 180#. I used to be 285. I had more stamina and strength at 285 and could pass a stress test with flying colors. I probably look better in a swimsuit now, but I felt better then. Cancer is a bitch and I can't go back on half a stomach. Put me in the "my 8yr old is wearing a one piece regardless of her weight", and weight isn't always an indicator of health group.

I wasn't comparing smoking and obesity.

I was comparing the amount of presence in media coverage on both issues and how they drove/drive popular opinion. And how it validates prejudice based on 'health issues.'

I understand the significance of second-hand smoking. I also understand that the 'health angle' validated people's judgment-dealing of smokers overall, whether they were breathing in their second-hand smoke or not. And some folks got real, real serious about it. Going as far as to purport serious character defects of the people who smoke.

I see the same thing playing out now around the issue of obesity.

That is the comparison.

I had a step-cousin who was always heavy and I was always quite thin. Her step-mom would make remarks all the time about my size quite vocally in front of her. She would also say things like, "Maybe you should try a diet soda instead." I could always sense that it hurt her to hear things like that, she was quite young at the time. I empathized. I would either let her wear what she would like and discover for herself, or find another way to lean her towards the one-piece suit. I would also consider fun activities that would encourage healthier living. Going to the pool, starting a family membership at the Y, making it a ritual to go biking together etc.