kate jack

It's not at all flattering to her. The child doesn't seem to care about her stomach hanging well over the suit. Would you discourage the suit or not? Would you have a different reaction at 8 than 15? Would your opinion change if her friends (or other kids at a party) were likely to say something unkind?


I'd probably let the child wear the two piece and make sure to get a one piece as a back up. One pieces are more practical for water slides and such. That said, I'd let the child wear whichever pleased them as long as they had both available. Then if she did get upset about being teased, she could have an alternate suit to wear.

thespian86

Wow. I can't really put my finger on why, but this is a really upsetting topic. I'm a fat kid; or at least I used to be. Parents who ask questions like this made it harder. It encourages unhealthy body images, not a push to have a healthier lifestyle. If anything, the fact that she has no problem with her stomach speaks wonders about the child's self-confidence and having that as an overweight, 15 year old girl?! It's a miracle, not something to be shit on.

The idea of giving them a choice implies that there is an obvious flaw in her initial choice; that her body isn't good enough for a two-piece, so she should take the one piece because kids will be pointing and laughing. Fuck; I'd be more worried about the douchebags she was hanging out with then the kind of clothing she wears.

Has anyone ever seen the film "Spanglish"? This reminds me of the scene where Bernie (who is a beautiful, intelligent, talented kid) is emotionally crippled because of her parent's "well intentioned shopping spree" where everything is two sizes too small.

I would make sure she lived a healthier lifestyle, while also encouraging the fact that she is super confident about what kind of a person she is. I would hate to destroy a spirit like that.

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Willravel

Being overweight is unhealthy. I'd be more concerned about her health than her appearance in a two piece.

I find the best way to help motivate someone close to you is to join them. I've got like 5 consistent running friends now. It's easier for them to be motivated to exercise and eat right when I'm there to help them.

Cernunnos

I would allow her to wear whatever she chooses as a bathing suit. Yes, she may be teased, but the last thing she needs is for her parents to give the justification for it by recommending against a bikini.

I would also encourage her to swim, actually, since it's a great form of exercise and would assist in removing those unhealthy pounds.

Stare At The Sun

If you are overweight, you should work to not be overweight.

It's a health problem. Being of a proper weight isn't some image or lifestyle, its simply the best way to be, and society encourages that.

The fact that she has no problem with being overweight is NOT a good thing. Infact, it is only setting the stage for more problems later on.

There is nothing good about being fat, and promoting 'fat acceptance' is not a good thing, its just being PC for the sake of being PC. People should try and be as healthy as possible, and parents should encourage that.

It boggles my mind why anyone would actually want to be fat, and not work to prevent it, or fix the problem.

thespian86

Ever been there?

It's not being PC at all and you're completely missing the point. It's not about encouraging being fat, it's about putting a child in the best position to change their lives. Instilling the idea of failure on a child often leads to a lack of confidence. How many people so you know, Stare, that have a serious lack of confidence that succeed at almost everything they do; are even happy?

I'm so happy being who I am and nothing has to do with my weight or the fact that I'm fit; I love the kind of guy I've become, and the kind of life I live. In fact, the more and more I tried to lose it when I hated it, the worse it got. I accpeted it and lost 70 pounds. I'd rather that then hate what and who I am. Its people like you who think it's okay to tell someone they are failing because they can't overcome something with ease, in hopes that it will encourage them to win. Not everyone operates on the same level; not everyone succeeds instantly. Man, I use to peer mentor kids who were amazing people but were seriously fucked up because their parents "encouraged" them to live better lives by forcing generalized bullshit like "societal norms" on people.

I know that you're saying "healthy is healthy" but we are talking about kids; even worse, teens.

And I don't care how geeky, or fat, or ugly, or smelly, or whatever my kid is; if they are happy then the rest will come to them. I'll help them.

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EX: uh...
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Manic_Skafe

Your entire post was a gross oversimplification of the issues at hand. There are an innumerable amount of factors that can cause or contribute to a person being over weight. If it's nothing more than a matter of will power in your own life then more power to you. But I think the billion dollar weight loss industry demonstrates the opposite for most people.

Problems like what? Being inclined to judge yourself and others by more than appearance alone? Self-esteem based upon how you feel about yourself? The ability to meet difficult social situations head-on? Most kids would be lucky to be so unfortunate.

- -

I'd encourage my kid to do exactly as she pleases and I'd hope that she'd wear that two-piece and own it. Looking good because she feels good.

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settie

*hugs*
Everything you've said in this thread feels like it has come out of my head. I too find it an upsetting topic, as I was always very negative about my body and myself as a whole since at least 9, and it felt like what everyone said made it worse, not better, negative encouragement doesn't work for everyone. Sometimes you just have to let them figure it out on their own time.
For me, all that negative encouragement felt like the other person was being too controlling, its only a downward spiral from there, really.

Anyways, I agree with everything you've said. As long as the kid is happy, everything else will come to them in their own time.

Lasereth

Let her wear what she wants. I grew up with my parents telling me I was fat and making fun of me if I wore clothes that "fit" instead of being mega baggy and it fucked me up real bad. I had terrible insecurity and was REALLY bad self-conscious until I went to college because of the way my parents treated me and how they called me fat.

Being fat isn't a good thing and she needs to get in shape but if she has self-confidence right now then let it flourish.

Seaver

I was a fat kid. My brother constantly made fun of me, it was only when my dad told me I was fat and needed to lose weight did it hit me. I lost 30lbs in 2 months by dedicating myself. 10 years later I'm still the fittest in my family, being blunt doesn't cause everyone to break down.

__________________
"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

surferlove007

This hits close to home...Lifeguarding this summer and I see MANY cases of young girls in bikinis with their stomachs hanging out...and no care at all on their part or the parents. What's worse is that the parents are more overweight and baring more than their children...good role models for the future.
I suppose the way I feel about this topic is pretty harsh...so I'll pick my words carefully. If this was my daughter...and she was overweight and I concerned over kids laughing at her...I'd concern about the path of my parenting that led to this predicament. I would buy her the one piece no questions. Then reconsider what got her to this point and make lifestyle changes.
One thing I've noticed throughout this summer is the amount of overweight people baring it all at the pool, pretending their lifestyle is acceptable. I am a firm believer in exercising and maintaining a healthy weight and lifestyle. I guess I was the most disgusted the other day when I was working and I was talking to a client and I asked her why they were at the pool during the dinner lull and her response was "Oh I never make dinner since McDonald's is open so close now." This was not a small woman either...very overweight as well as her daughter. I guess that was when I decided the world and the next generation of kids are going to hell and a hand basket. It's upsetting that it seems the next generation majority will end up like the people on Wall-E. *Shrug*

thespian86

I got turned down for a part; I lost 73 pounds. I get laid more, I work out a lot, I get more parts; but my happiness still doesn't hinge on losing that extra two pounds to make my goal weight. My whole life was a little bit harder because of people trying to "push me" or "encourage me". At that point, when I had lost wait, I had come to terms with who I was as a person.

I liked myself; so I did what made me happy. Being on stage, doing what I do, is what I loved. That stood in my way. So I changed it. Against all of the "encouragement".

EDIT: GG, I agree and I think I should clarify instead of just yapping back.

If it's a question between my fairly young daughter being fit or confident, I choose confidence. It's a very good and almost impossible characteristic to obtain.

If it's my fairly young daughter being over weight and indifferent, that's a whole new ball game. Indifference to health isn't what I'm talking about. I'm in the best shape I've ever been, and I love my body. I'm just talking about an issue of self-confidence and I can't say that I promote the idea of your self-confidence being tied in with what your body looks like. Especially for a teenaged girl. No dice.

And maybe this is an issue of "walk in my shoes" and not an issue of "neglectful parents". Maybe it's the other way around.

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EX: uh...
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ASU2003

Has she been teased before and just doesn't care? Does she have friends who accept her whatever she wears?

I think parents should look out for the psychological health of their children as well. How should a parent react if they see her getting teased? And would it be possible to go to more private swimming areas to reduce the likelihood of something bad happening? How would a parent help this girl if her feelings and self-esteem was hurt?

I would worry about what will happen 5 or 10 years from now. I know I have had some things happen in my past that could have been avoided. And I wouldn't mind going back and making different choices for my younger self. Then again, I wouldn't have wanted my parents to have been making all of my choices and picking out what I wear or what I do and whatever. There has to be some balance to letting the kid/teen make their own decisions, but protecting them if they make a wrong decision.

Grasshopper Green

I'd encourage my daughter to wear a one piece simply because young girls don't need to be wearing bikinis, IMO.

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Formerly Medusa

surferlove007

I wonder why I didn't write this myself! I wasn't allowed to wear a bikini until I could buy it myself...I was 16! Where is the modesty nowadays? My mother had the good sense to not let me parade around in revealing outfits when I was 12 and unlike like so many young girls do now. I guess being a cool mom is more important than being a good mom...My mom and I are just now crossing into the friends area...and I'm 20.

ASU2003

I'm surprised that there are so many girls that wear two piece suits too. But I would assume that there are some advantages to them.

Bear Cub

Let her wear it.

How else is she going to put in a Craigslist BBW personal ad?

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RetroGunslinger

I'm a pretty harsh guy I guess, as I'd tell her not to wear it because only bad can come out of it. If she insisted, I might let her, if just to prove a point. I frown on being fat being considered OK or beautiful, when it's just a sign of poor health.

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Stare At The Sun

Tell me ONE good thing about being overweight.

Just one thing that is better about being overweight, then being of a proper weight.

You can't..because there are no pro's to being fat. It's all cons.

The sooner people accept that the better we will all be. I'm not saying its easy to lose weight, nor am I saying overweight people should be shunned, or anything else. I am saying that having an attitude of acceptance should not be kosher.

Think what you want, but any parent that lets their child be overweight is not doing their job as a parent, and is only setting their kid up for a shitty life down the road.

girl_somebody

The most logical answer I've read yet!
-----Added 3/8/2008 at 10 : 39 : 53-----
These type of comments just anger me. I am overweight, and honestly, why do you care? Do have the same disgust and scorn for healthy weight smokers? What about athletes that drink? Same amount of finger pointing? Really, why do you care what health problems a person may have because they are overweight? How does it affect YOUR quality of life? And don't feed me some bullshit line about how your tax paying money is going to pay for these peoples health problems. There are millions of other health problems burdened on THIN otherwise "Healthy people" as well.

I agree that maintaining a healthy lifestyle is the best choice in the long run, I am not trying to say otherwise. But to say that I shouldn't enjoy my life because I am overweight is just stupid.

The problem with people like you, is that you think that every overweight person is exactly like the woman that was described by the pool: overweight, letting it all hang out, and explaining she'd rather eat her meals at mcdonalds than go through the hassle of cooking them. That is not the case. I for example, am predispositioned to being overweight: i come from a large family. I have a desk job, that does not allow me to be very active. I've had 2 babies (both a healthy weight I might add) and I don't eat at fast food restaurants every day. We are a low income family, which makes it difficult to always buy and eat right (a 69cent box of KD is alot more affordable at times!) Of course I *could* be doing an aerobic work out right now instead of sitting here typing this, couldnt I? But I guess that'd be my choice and not yours. My husband used to be thinner, but being a long haul truck driver, he's gained weight. Are you saying he shouldn't be able to enjoy a day at the beach with his shirt off because you think his belly has a little jiggle to it?

And so you're saying, not only do I have the pressure of raising my kids to be good people, to know right from wrong, to teach them to look both ways before crossing the street, to to be kind and patient and polite and share, to know their ABC's by kindergarten, but that I ALSO have to worry about other people evaluating my parenting skills, based on my child's weight????

Of course I don't agree with parents setting their kids in a bad eating pattern: i.e. not teaching them the importance of healthy foods, and feeding them sugar filled fattening foods instead. But it's really none of my business.

Maybe I should calm down and point out that I am thinking of two different classes of overweight people:

There are people who are overweight who, even though they are overweight themselves, encourage their children to eat healthy and be healthy. (such as myself) I'm not totally happy with my weight, but I am accepting and realize that I have just given myself a hard enough push yet to do anything about it. Again, MY problem, not yours. Why shouldn't I feel confident and good about myself. Should I have to live each day in disgust for myself, reminding myself how disgusting society finds me? You talk about long term health effects of being overweight, but you are not thinking about the long term mental health effects that you are instilling and encouraging by having such an ignorant attitude.

Then there are people who just don't care about anything related to health, and I DO feel sorry for kids who are raised that way. But maybe one thing I have to accept is that I can't change that. But just because these kids are raised in poor conditions, doesn't mean they should be riducled for it.

Jinn

It must be odd living in a world that is so black and white, so clear-cut. The world I live in has exceptions and caveats, at the very least.

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Stare At The Sun

@ Girl.

I have no problem with people being overweight, but I do have a problem with people being "OK" with that "lifestyle".

Like I said in my previous post, I'd really like to hear one benefit, one plus, one upside to being overweight. Just one little pro to outweigh an overwhelming amount of cons.

Children don't deserve to be burdened by being fat, they deserve a healthy upbringing, and to be fat is to be unhealthy, no two ways around it.

And you saying that you're predisposed to being overweight is not something I buy. If you really wanted to change, you could.

I don't care what people wear, or how fat they are. But I do care when they try and make that lifestyle acceptable, and when they allow their kids to weigh more then I do, at 23, when they are 12.

You also say:

"Why shouldn't I feel confident and good about myself. Should I have to live each day in disgust for myself, reminding myself how disgusting society finds me? You talk about long term health effects of being overweight, but you are not thinking about the long term mental health effects that you are instilling and encouraging by having such an ignorant attitude."

Why shouldn't you remind yourself? As I've said before, there is nothing good about being overweight, and putting a kid through that when they really have no choice is even worse. If you screw their diet from day one, and don't help instill an active lifestyle, you're just setting them up for a shit life later on.

People that are on the thin side are more socially acceptable, it's nothing against people that are overweight, its just the way it is. People prefer to be healthy, have toned bodies, and not be fat. It's not the nicest thing to say, but its the truth. People that are overweight are the polar opposite of what society values aesthetically in individuals. So it seems odd to me that any parent would want their kid to be fat, or not act to prevent such a thing.

I'm kinda rambling and such here, but all I'm trying to say is that kid deserves a better shot at life, and unless she starts now, she is just setting herself up for failure. I don't really care how non-PC it is to say this, but the truth of the matter is simple. If you are fat, you will have a much harder go at all things social then someone that is not. You will have more health problems then someone that is not. This list goes on and on for some time. The bottom line, the bikini isn't the issue in the original post, its the weight the parent should be worried about.

thespian86

I hope you realize the irony of "If you are fat, you will have a much harder go at all things social then someone that is not." Its attitudes like yours that make this statement true.

And for the record. This isn't an issue of PC, it's an issue of being humane. People are people. I'm going to make sure my kids are driven, intelligent, well spoken, educated, kind and loyal. My kids are going be great people FIRST. Then maybe great LOOKING people second.

Fat people are far less disgusting then people who feel the world works better without them.

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Manic_Skafe

I can admire that you stick to your guns but that doesn't make your position any more defensible. You think that weight loss and weight gain is all a matter of choice - fat people and their bad choices versus healthy people and their good choices.

Ridiculous. So much so that I'm finding it increasingly difficult to contradict that without coming off as a complete asshole. Apply a little common sense.

And what do you suggest they do? Stay home in shame of their weight because you think they look bad?

This topic is too fish in a barrel for me.

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Stare At The Sun

And yet, with all that, noone has given me a single Pro to being overweight. Which is simply because none exist.

You might not like what I'm saying, but it doesn't make it any less true. If you're fat, you're going to have a tougher go at life, and any parent should realize that.

canuckguy

The extra weight certainly did not hurt the careers of John Candy or Chris Farly. Of course there both dead now but you get the idea....

Atreides88

What about those who are big, i.e. they have a large frame and tend to have a little extra jiggle, or those that have genetic disorders(thyroid for instance) that make them more predisposed to packing on some extra pounds? Would you consider their parents sub-par?

I think I understand what you're saying though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your big hang-up is with people who don't take care of themselves, and parents who don't teach and then reinforce in their kids the value of proper diet and exercise. I totally agree with that.

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Stare At The Sun

Exactly!

It's a bad cycle, they lose their values, and the motivation to do anything about it.

Manic_Skafe

Can you really be that dense? Since it really is a matter of pros and cons then tell us exactly what can be done for those with thyroid issues. Or those who have no markets with fresh foods near them? What about those who can't afford anything but fast food? Explain how their will and desire has failed them then.

While I stand by my sentiments I realize that my words came out a bit more harsh than I intend them to. I offer my most sincere apologies to whomever I may have offended.

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QuasiMondo

Give her the bikini. Really, you folks need to get over this obsession with fat people.

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Atreides88

Can you really be that dense?

There is medication for thyroid conditions, and most conditions that can help keep the weight off. Again, the real problem that Stare and I have is that too many people are fat because they don't take care of themselves. Genetic disorders don't fall into that category.

I don't know many people, at least in the US, who can't find fresh fruits and vegetables at their local grocer and even the poorest individuals I've known could afford food at the grocery store.

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mixedmedia

Mother of an overweight daughter here. Gather 'round and tell me about my failings as a parent.

My daughter is fat and I can tell you many good things about her that other 'thin' people don't share. That's because she's a not a 'fat person.' She is a person who happens to be fat. We have lived a healthy lifestyle. Her sisters and I are not fat. I always tried to encourage her to wear clothes that I thought 'looked good on her' but in the end it was always her decision. And we have very, very different tastes in clothing.

My daughter is happy and talented and intelligent. Those who matter see her for how she is. I taught my daughter that anyone who would judge her and then sum her up for how she looks is an asshole. Words and action are all that matter.

What's more, what life as a person who is fat has taught my daughter is to be more tolerant and accepting of people who are different. And she is fiercely loyal to this principal. And frankly, I wouldn't want her any other way. Maybe she will lose the weight one day, she is still young, and maybe she won't, but it's nobody else's fucking business and if you run up against the wrong side of my daughter one day - she'll tear you a new one. I wish more fat people had the self-confidence to stand up for themselves. Some people just need to be put in their place. Hell in a handbasket, indeed.

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canuckguy

I think your point could be driven home just the same without the insult.
-----Added 3/8/2008 at 06 : 50 : 13-----
see above...

Slims

I don't believe I would allow my daughter to get fat in the first place. If you teach healthy lifestyle habits from the beginning there will be no hard adjustments or teasing as your kid will never be overweight. However, if you have failed to teach your child good lifestyle habits and she became fat, I would tell her flat out. How will being dishonest with her help her in any way? If I chose to wear something that looked ridiculous, I would hope that those close to me would respect me enough to tell me before I humiliated myself.

I fail to see how weight gain, or loss, isn't a matter of choice. You either choose to supersize that double quarter pounder meal or you choose to not stuff your face with far more calories than your body is able to burn.

I am a very active person, who works out daily and lives an active lifestyle, which means I burn a lot more calories than the average person. However, I have yet to meet an obese person who doesn't eat more than me on a daily basis.

My parents are both oveweight, and sedentary. They eat three full meals a day (with seconds) and are continually astonished when I eat less than them.

I put on a few pounds when I was finishing up my trip to Afghanistan. I can chalk it up to stress, glands, or whatever, but in the end I put on weight because I stopped lifting and working out the way I had been, and I kept my calorie intake high. When I got back and looked in the mirror I was ashamed enough to work to fix the problem. And by work I mean I actually *worked* out, and didn't just *go* to the gym. When I diet, I don't just eat less, I eat less than my body uses which drives weightloss. I have never met a person for whom this won't work.

I will caveat that by saying I realize Diabetes, Congestive Heart Failure, etc. can make weight management extremely difficult. But the valid excuse of a sick few doesn't apply to the vast mooing masses who continue to drive food prices up while making excuses for their obsession with McDonalds.


Oh, and as far as how our countries obesity epidemic impacts me:
It is driving up my helthcare costs; when I ride public transportation I frequently have to share my seat with the fat person sitting next to me; being military, I have seen several fat people who are unable to do their jobs, thus forcing us non-fat people to do more work; it is hard to find a non lard-ass sized meal at a restaurant these days; I have to buy tailored dress shirts as store bought ones are huge around the waist; Clothes in general are hard to shop for as companies always seem to have that 46X30" pair of jeans but 30X32" often isn't even made anymore.

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JStrider

Fat peoples thick layer of fat is rather soft, so they are more comfortable to lay against for long periods of time. Next time your on an airplane trapped next to a pudgy person give it a try!


I really dont care whether or not a fat person or kid wears a two piece... I can look the other way.

I think the bigger problem is even considering letting an 8 year old wear a two piece bikini! 15 is just getting to the age where I would consider it maybe appropriate.

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Seaver

Yeah... I had the experience with the fat guy on my last plane ride. His belly was covering 2/3 of my seat and he forgot his deodorant. Sorry... I don't care how soft he is... I expect the fat guy to pay for half my seat next time if they're going to take it over again.

__________________
"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

thespian86

Yes, yes, yes.

The problem with the "healthy" argument is that we are examining two different things Stare. You are looking at what it is to be an animal; how we function physically. We are discussing the positives of being a good person.

And Mix for the win. Positives for being a fat person? I am kind, considerate, intelligent, funny, well spoken, thoughtful, loving, intense, analytical, and strong person because I was a fat kid growing up. I learned how to survive as a person, not a thing. I wasn't given an easy route to do anything because I was fat and now I'm self-sufficient.

If we are going to play the discrimination game then all "good looking thin people" (what a fucking ignorant and offensive idea) are all soulless douche bags who get by on the fact that they are thin and good looking. They have nothing to say of substance because they have never been in a position to learn something of substance. They end up drifting into meaningless jobs because they have nothing to prove to anyone because no one has ever made them work for anything. They are losers with pretty faces.

That was fun.

In reality, most of the people I've met in my life who are "unconventional" are the most well rounded, interesting people. They hate themselves though. They owe you guys a fruit basket I guess.

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ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

Poppinjay

Ask the offensive line of the Dallas Cowboys if they see any advantages to being fat.

Don't tell me they're muscular, they are FAT, and strong, but not muscular.

I carry extra pounds, way more than I want, but then I'm also able to hike long distances with a heavy pack on my back. I have yet to hike with a skinny dude who could keep up, including an army soldier friend.

At any rate, there's easily as many tubby boys out there wearing shorts and no shirt. Should they wear a onesie?

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RetroGunslinger

I thought you were my friend!


That's not much of a point. I somehow doubt the offensive line of the Dallas Cowboys just sits around drinking beer and gaining weight. They not only are already built from the get-go as human tanks, but they practice and exercise.

As for the hiking example, who said skinny guys are all that strong? They're not in peak physical condition either, and they should be criticized just like fat people.

What I'm getting from the OP is that the daughter just plain isn't in any form of shape. You get exercise and also happen to pack a few extra pounds, whereas from my understanding this girl is just plain fat. Whether or not she's fine with that, it's still not healthy, and that's the biggest issue along with the possibility that her self-confidence now in her younger years will eventually give way to depression.

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Poppinjay

I should have specified I was answering Stare at The Sun's multiple queries about advantages of being fat. But I have to say, many of those behemoth OL guys DO put away more food in a day than most families eat in a week, and yes, they do drink beer. These are guys who spend their twenties in the NFL, make a few millions, and retire by 30.

The skinny point was not so much that my friend is skinny, in fact he's probably about average. It was that he's had training, could be called up to Iraq at any minute, and he can't hump a load nearly as easily as I can. Again, this is to refute arguments that being overweight does not mean a person is a zero sum being in terms of fitness. I am stronger and have much better endurance than this person who falls completely in the accepted norms.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet