dalnet22

When I was a kid, I didn't care about what clothes I wore, how my hair looked, how I came off to people, etc. I enjoyed the days with my friends, and we had a lot of fun.

As time has passed, my friends have changed. They taught me a lot of things that I don't like. For example, I only look good if I wear my clothes a certain way, if I comb my hair a certain way, etc. The thing is - not only was I told those things, I feel them. If my clothes don't look right, I feel wrong. If my hair is messy, I feel like girls won't like me. But I also don't like how I look unless I'm a certain way.

How does this happen? If you told me it didn't matter how I dress, I would still feel like I look bad in the mirror.

Am I wrong to think I look bad? If I look bad, isn't it possible that some people are not good? Maybe beauty is not in the eye of the beholder. Maybe we find people ugly because they have bad DNA - maybe the ugly people are worth less than good looking people.

What are your thoughts on all of this?

spindles

Kids are great in that they mostly don't care what they wear - every time you see a kid running around the shops dressed as batman or spiderman, you can't help but think that they are not interested in what they wear.

My eldest son's favourite clothes? the t-shirt with Lightning MacQueen on it or the one with the robot on it. He thinks those things are cool.

What changes? Well, most of us hit puberty at some stage and suddenly the opposite sex becomes a driving factor. You are (perhaps only subconsciously) searching for a mate to make babies with. How you look now is *very* important.

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pig

I think that sounds like crazy talk dalnet. I can understand feeling insecure about your looks - that's a natural process and you'll iron it out. A combination of what society expects of you, what you like, what you feel comfortable with, and what role you want to play in society.

Don't attach notions of self-worth to ephemeral things. Bad DNA? You're worth exactly what you decide you're worth, because you're the one and only guy who is behind the screen name of dalnet22.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

dalnet22

I see what you're saying. But I can lie to my kid and tell him he can fly off our roof, and he might believe it and kill himself.

I could also lie to myself and say it doesn't matter what people think. And I might be 70 years old with no friends because I didn't pay attention to what people thought about me.

Or, I could lie to someone and say they're beautiful, and they might believe it. And then they might wonder why nobody likes them. That lie might be and "ignorance is bliss" type issue.

Punk.of.Ages

....or you could truly stop caring what people think and be true to yourself. That way when you're seventy all of your friends will like you for who you truly are, and not what you look like.

That's what I do anyway, and it's worked thus far.

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"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

dalnet22

Punk, what if being myself offends other people? Wouldn't that mean there's something not right with "being myself"?

* I don't really have these issues. I'm a good looking guy and all, but I'm interested in what people think about my questions.

Punk.of.Ages

Simple: No. If you offend somebody, you and that person do not have compatible personalities. Move on.

There are people in this world who like you. There are people who don't. What truly matters is their reasoning for liking, or disliking, you. For myself I want people to like me based on my personality and actions, not what I look like.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

snowy

I think you need to seriously reevaluate those you call friends.

I've personally ended friendships because I felt that the friendship came at a cost to my self-esteem, and my sense of self-worth is more valuable than that. You can find friends who will like you the way you are and accept you for who you are, and you shouldn't EVER settle for less.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

dalnet22

Good responses. Here's another rebuttle:

I heard from a therapist that human feelings can be wrong. For example, if I feel like I'm stupid, that's wrong. If I feel like I'm ugly, that's wrong. But, if I think I'm beautiful, that's right because it helps me. So basically, if I feel good about something, then it's ok.

What if I feel like I want to rape some girl? I feel like it's a good idea, so how dare someone else tell me I can't do it? Because it's just not right to rape people.

But, if I feel like I'm beautiful, what if I'm wrong? If I can't trust my feelings to always be right, why should I believe this one? Maybe I'm wrong like I was with the raping?

Punk.of.Ages

Raping somebody infringes rights in a heinous manner.

Feeling you are beautiful is an opinion.

Apples to oranges my friend.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

dalnet22

True, but they're both feelings - the feeling that rape is good and the feeling that someone is beautiful. It could be someone's opinion that they are ugly. Is it possible that they are just wrong? Or can you be born thinking someone is ugly?

Punk.of.Ages

Your opinions are produced by the experiences you have. Everyone's are different. You might think someone's highly attractive, whereas I do not. Doesn't mean either of us are wrong. Just have differing opinions. An opinion is incapable of being right or wrong.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

pig

First dalnet: what exactly is your reasoning for starting this thread?

Second: Beauty/Ugliness...Cool/Loser....these are matters of perception. No matter how you choose to present yourself, someone will think you are the most beautiful, coolest cat in town...someone else will think you are the ugliest, biggest loser in town. So it doesn't really matter. If you haven't found your niche, then stick around a while longer, or find a different town. Subcultures exist for a reason.

Rape is more than a feeling. It's a direct infringement on another person's rights and safety. As was said, apples and oranges. Feeling that you'd like to rape someone isn't necessarily bad...find a girl who's into a bdsm. It comes down to consent. And that's a different question, again.

So let's focus on consent: you consent to call yourself ugly, then you're ugly. You, and every other person has or should have the right to consent to most situations they are put in, theoretically speaking. Of course we don't, so we make the best with what we can control. Rape happens, and most civilized societies object to it. As does murder and theft, and these are also punished, theoretically.

Thus you control that which you can control: there is no point in labelling yourself as being Ugly or Uncool - enough other people will do that for you. So do the best you can, and be happy with yourself - as much as you can. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

dalnet22

pig, thanks for the reply. The reason for the thread:

When I was a kid and didn't care, girls thought I was a dork, and they rarely spoke to me. But, as soon as I started to care about how I looked, girls liked me.

I'm concerned that if I accept myself however I am, I may revert back to that person who didn't care about clothes and hair and all that stuff. And then the girls will no longer like me. And I will not live up to the potential I could be because I was told I should accept myself whether my hair is part, left messy, or smells like shit.

Adding on to that - you could argue that if I think my hair smells, I should clean it. But, if I think it looks bad, shouldn't I change that too? Shouldn't I be unaccepting of what I deem bad? But here again, I'm relying on my feelings to make decisions. This after I was told my feelings are wrong.

If my hair looks bad, I'm supposed to accept that.

But if it smells bad, I'm supposed to change? Maybe I should force my smeller to like the smell, just as I'm forcing myself to like what what I don't.

lotsofmagnets

for the most part i disagree. your friends are the mirror that talks back and hopefully they know you well enough to help you with your style. i´ve definitely listened to my friends´ opinions and used the collective to find what i´m happy with and what works for me. if i look bad my friends would never hold back but it´s always positive criticism eg how i should have my hair, what clothes do and don´t work.

on the other hand if they are telling you you look shit and have no hope then fuck ´em.


you seem to be completely disinterested in self satisfaction and measure yourself soley by how much ze vimmens like you. you won´t get far with this mindset.

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she shed her mountain turning training wheels, for the convenience of the moving sidewalk, that delivers the magnetic monkey children through the mouth of impossible calendar clock, into the devil's manhole cauldron.
physics of a bicycle, isn't it remarkable?

pig

Well dalnet: there's a balance between what makes you absolutely happy, and what you broadcast to other people. So if having hair that smells like shit really makes you happy, but you also recognize that it sends a message to other people that you are slovenly and don't care about your appearance...then you have to prioritize. Same with everything else.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

jewels

I think changing the clothes and your look made you walk with self-confidence. That's what made you more attractive.

It is how you see yourself. Clothing and haircuts and the like may help, but it comes down to learning to love yourself -- who you are -- so that others will see what you see through projection.

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

Seer666

I stopped giving a good god damn what people thought of me when I was 12. What they think about how I dress is part of that. And you know what? I still get laid. Get some confidence in who and what you are. Goes a longer way with the women then what you wear.

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I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant.

dalnet22

Interesting responses. My confidence was sky high when I believed I was fine no matter how I looked. Once I started believing I'm not always fine, that faded. I'll have to chew on this for a while.