abaya

For all the married folks out there... I've just been thinking about a lot of my friends lately, and how I often know everything about them except for the state of their marriage, which seems like an important thing to know about among friends.

I find it kind of weird, because I like to broadcast the state of my marriage often, lol (maybe because it's mostly positive?... but even when ktspktsp and I had our bad times, I still broadcast that in my journal here, too!)... so I wonder why we don't hear about the inner emotional workings of a lot of marriages right here on good ol' TFP, given how much time we devote to posting about our lusts and desires, alternative lifestyles and sexualities, etc. I mean, those are all extremely private things, as well.

I have a pretty strong feeling about who IS in a happy marriage around here; I also have some inklings about who isn't, no matter how much they might try to hide or avoid the topic. It kind of just oozes out of people's posts, somehow. Does anyone else get that impression? I'm the type of person that really likes to get down to the nitty-gritty when I get to know someone, not beating around the bush, so it's a bit weird for me when I recognize avoidant behavior... but maybe that doesn't gel with an online, mostly anonymous internet forum.

Anyway, without further ado, would be interesting to see what comes up here. I'm putting an anonymous poll for people to respond, in case you don't want to actually post anything... which is fine, still gives us a read on the general population. Would be interesting to know what are the things that you want to work on to make your marriage better, or what became a deal breaker for you if you are heading towards divorce?

Oh, and in case y'all didn't know, my marriage status is usually updated whenever I journal, hehe. But we are generally pretty happy, though we'll be a lot happier when we move away from Iceland!!! We're always working on something, though I think we've got communication mostly down. We both tend to get a little bit defensive/passive-aggressive when we're unhappy with the other person, but we do point it out and handle it when it happens. Our sex life has its good and not-so-good times, but also overall, we're always working towards something better. I guess we see the whole marriage thing as a learning process, and right now we're still in the early stages (first 2 years) of what we see as a lifetime journey. So that perspective helps us get through a lot, I think.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ShaniFaye

We are so disgustingly happy we make other people sick. Going on 5 years together and 3 of them married.....not one fight, not one argument, not one disagreement. I've never been happier in my life...just pisses me off it took me til I was 35 to get that way lol

Our sex life could not be better (I dont think). I can't think of one single thing that would improve it, because I dont see anything that needs to be improved (and neither was he...we just had this discussion with some friends of ours the other day who dont understand how we can always be deliriously happy)

We are true soul mates in every since of the word. We read each other's minds so much its actually scary. Seriously I will be sitting here thinking about something out of the blue and totally random, either at home or work and he will call or text or say something straight to me that mirrors exactly what I was thinking about...tis very weird and Im still not used to it lol and we've been like that since our very first date.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

abaya

Well, still waiting for the poll (I've requested it from some mods)... but in the meanwhile, Shani I'm not surprised to see you posting here first!! hahaha. I guess you and I know where we stand on this topic, hehe.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ShaniFaye

I could tell you everything that was wrong with my first marriage if that would help lol

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

abaya

Well, I'd be interested in reading, since no one else seems up to posting just yet... but it's up to you. I didn't think this general of a topic would be so hard to get a discussion going about, given the kind of things we usually talk about around here!

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Giant Hamburger

Hail Happily Married Ladies!

I believe that my marriage will continue to be mostly happy right up to the point when my head falls off
and my wife and children crawl inside to use my herculean carcass for food and shelter.

Does this ooze out in my posts?

abaya

Well, it certainly oozed out of your frog/toad mating-ball post, or whatever that was...

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Daniel_

Every time I want to post, I go to a thread and find Shanni has beaten me to it, and said what I wanted to say.

So - here you go. I am very happy, and I believe my wife is too.

I could list all the things wrong with my first marriage, but I think we'd need more room on the server.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Aladdin Sane

We are very happy with our marriage and we've been going at it for almost 20 years. It's the first one for us both.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

*Nikki*

We are very happy. Five years together-three married.

The only issues we seem to have involve family members and $$.

ShaniFaye

HEY!! where is the choice for gloriously satisfying and no issues

Daniel thats cause your my 2nd soul mate

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

BulletCatcher

While I am not technically married, we have been together 11 years, have 2 children together, bought a house together and share everything a 'normal' married couple would. We even call each other husband and wife. I'm not even exactly sure why we have never made it official. There are some advantages (taxes, credit etc...) that staying single have afforded us but I can't say they are the reason why we've never taken the step.

Whatever the reason we have been happily together all of this time. At this point I cannot even fathom what life would be like without her. We have our share of problems over the years like any couple do but we have never allowed them to reach the point of becoming a serious issue between us. As cliche as it may be, mairrage is a compomise and I believe that has been our greatest stregnth. Both of us are able to read the other and realize how important an issue may be enough to know when to press and when to back down.

Perhaps the biggest issue we have is her 17 year old son. Unfortunately, he and I have never developed a close relationship and as such I am not as forgiving as she is when it comes to laying down the law. Lately he has been getting himself into some serious trouble (he's been arrested for shoplifting and paraphanalia (sp?)in the last 2 months) and I have cracked down pretty hard on him but she feels I'm going to far. It's nothing we can't work through but I do wish she would understand that while yes, teenagers do stupid things, you need to make sure they understand what they did is wrong and will not be tolerated and not just glossed over by slapping their wrist and asking them not to do it again.

abaya

Cool to hear people's responses... I guess most people are comfortable posting if they are in happier marriages, which is understandable. Thanks for sharing, everyone. Well Shani, I guess I didn't want people to feel they had to reach a standard of 100% perfection in order to mark the "happily married" box... I figured on every couple having at least a few issues, sometimes... but I know you guys are off the charts!

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Psycho Dad

These polls never fit me. I would be most accurate saying "Extremely satisfying; working on issues". Every marriage has to have issues if the marriage is between two human beings. As people I can't see how we could go through life without issues. Where issues play into a satisfying marriage I think is when the partners can solve the issues and often strengthen the marriage from the solution.

So many of my friends these days can't seem to find a way to resolve the issues that are damaging their relationships with their spouses. My wife and I are the ones married the longest among all our friends. But we've had our fair share of difficulty. In the end though we overcome these troubles.

I often think that people don't really consider the lines in traditional wedding vows. The "For better or worse", "Richer or poor" and "Sickness and health" situations are real and we will all likely face them at some time or another. Often all at once. Regardless of religion or culture, we need I think consider what those vows mean.

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Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

fresnelly

Going on 9 years and still very happy. Like Shani I don't think we've ever had a fight.

All our bank accounts have been consolidated and shared, we share a single bathroom without shame, the sex is less frequent, but still rockin...

Why?

Partly a good match: She's decisive, I'm an accomodater.
Neither of us are consumed by insecurities or a need for drama.
We're financially comfortable.
Our extended families are decent and supportive people rather than sources of anxiety.
Our tempermants align. We both prefer a quiet night at home than a wild night on the town.

This is not to say that there's nothing to work on. My wife does almost all of the cooking and cleaning so I have to be careful not to become complacent and stay aware of how hard she's working. My 9-5 job is not a hall pass.

Our biggest anxiety (and note: common goal) is our children. We're coming to terms with the fact that our 3yo son is very high energy and as he prepares to enter the school system we're pulling our hair out that he'll never be able to sit still and pay attention. He's also exhausting so there's little energy for our own hobbies and pursuits, but we'll work through this and blaming each other will not be the first move.

My greatest fear about our marriage is that as we age, we'll grow into the worst aspects of our own parents. My father in law is both unfailingly caring, but also absent minded and my mother in law is generous and loyal but also can be vindictive. He's constantly losing keys and messing up instructions and gets flustered dealing with common tasks and she can be mean about it. I can think of few worse hells than sitting in their car as they try to find the best parking spot. Everytime I mess up a task or misplace something I cringe a little and pray it's not the begining of my decline.

Given that, it's good advice to carefully observe the relationships of the parents. You can learn a lot from how they behave and what qualites you and your SO share with them.

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Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

Fotzlid

Somewhat satisfying; a lot of built-up issues

She has a couple long standing issues with trust and jealousy that has put a hugh strain on our relationship recently. I've been putting up with it from pretty much the begining and my patience has worn out. The slightest indication she is going down that road and we end up barely talking for several days.
We both have a lot of work related stress and are dealing with a family illness on her side.
There are still stretches when we get along great and have a lot of fun but they are starting to get further apart.
I fear we are circling the drain.

dlish

im going on 7 years now. its been smooth sailing for the last few now. few bumps along the way but thats normal i think.

our only issue is having kids...

i tend not to discuss my personal life with others i do know let alone others i dont. so i am not comfortable discussing or posting my issues in a public board. thats just the way i am. ive always been a private person when it comes to my personal life.

granted that there is a degree on anonymity online, but is it really? for this reason id rather discuss things in private 1 on 1 instead of on a board.

thats just me

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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Willravel

May I just say that, based on what I know of you, fatherhood would agree with you. Not only that, but the world needs moral and intelligent parents in order to balance out the Britney Spears (and apparently George H. W. Bushs) of the world. It's certainly none of my business, but my two cents is that you should really consider it.

abaya

Other than the extended families bit, ktspktsp and I are almost exactly the same way. Good summary of reasons why a marriage works... Have you guys gone to marital counseling yet? I would hope that would be some kind of last resort before you really go down the drain... if both of you still want to work hard to get it back to "happy" status. But I guess not everyone has the energy for that, either. Just curious... Fair 'nuff, dlish! No requirement to disclose private things here, but I just thought I'd see where this thread went. Thanks for sharing what you did.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ShaniFaye

Except for the financially comfortable part, thats us as well. My parents and his parents are awesome, both sets going on 40 years of marriage and each of our parents loves their "in law" as much as they love their own child (although I kid him and say my parents love him more than they love me lol)

I have thought and thought since last nite, and nope there have never been any issues, not about money, not about sex, not about my daughter, nor the toilet seat or cleaning.

The day I met Dave, I had just said that morning, I was giving up on men...I'd find me a fuck buddy and I'd be just fine(and I really meant it)...in fact thats the only reason I answered his online personal....for a fuck buddy....some higher power had other ideas lol

I think it would prob be right to say that those of us that are this happy have learned one of the most important things is not who did or didnt leave the toilet seat up....but communication?

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

thingstodo

Got married at 19 which was more than 30 years ago. Still married and to the same lady. Wouldn't change a thing. I don't know how it works but it does.

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If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

abaya

Being an over-communicator myself, I would have to agree... though I would say that the little issues (toilet seat, etc) never really go away, but they get compromised on in a healthy manner if there's good and loving communication. I mean, our two little annoying things (why do annoying things always happen in the bathroom?) are 1) me leaving my hair in the shower, and 2) him blowing his nose in the sink. Yes, both very attractive behaviors. But we make a big joke out of the whole thing, when we notice the other person doing it... so instead of accusing and escalating the argument, we tease each other about it and that deflates any tension. It's so much better to laugh with each other (or at least hold each other, if we're having a difficult conversation) than to scream at each other.

I also think that doing a little research on good marriage patterns never hurt anyone, and I have to say that I learned a lot about how to fight/disagree fairly by reading Gottman's book, The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, before we got married. I also went to individual counseling to deal with my issues, and we did a little bit of couples' counseling before getting engaged, to make sure that we were in the right place. (I'm anxiety-prone, and we were about to make an international move right after getting married, so we didn't want to make bad decisions in the middle of all that.) We still have to work a lot on our patterns, but by no means are they dealbreakers.

But I'm the type of person that assumes ALL relationships and friendships have issues (other than Shani and Dave! ), and that's just part of life... learning how to deal with each other's crap without looking for an escape route. This is assuming there are no major incompatibilities in the marriage in the first place, but in my mind, those kinds of things ought to have been addressed before taking the jump into such a commitment. I don't really understand how people don't figure those kinds of things out beforehand, saving themselves a lot of pain and heartache down the road, but my experience is fairly limited.

It would be really good to hear about some marriages that are really struggling, but working hard to make it... or people who have gone through some serious shit, and are now doing much better (or maybe just decided to end it). This thread isn't supposed to be about happy marriages!... just marriages in general, how we're all doing in that sense.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Cynthetiq

extremely happy, but very realistic.

we have our issues. sometimes I have to remind Skogafoss that she has to challenge me and be upset with me if she is. She sometimes would rather not be confrontational about something, but that doesn't mean that she should give me a pass on it.

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jewels

I'm not married or totally spoken for, but have been through two marriages and a long-term relationship after the last marriage.

I think it is almost easy to see who's involved in a good relationship and who's not. The posts are often reflective, the subtleties in the attitudes of the posters are easier to read after a little while around TFP.

That said, I've renewed hope in finding a fulfilling, communicative relationship after seeing some of you here that are in (what sure appear to be) solid relationships. I'm really proud of you nameless kids.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

Daniel_

This thread needs Prince.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Derwood

11 years in and it's the best it's ever been, but we had some fights early in our marriage that would have sent many people to their divorce lawyers. we were young (22 and 20 respectively when we wed) and had almost no money. it's amazing what financial stress can do to your relationship as a whole. we've only in the last few years finally hit a level of financial comfort, and poof, all those day to day arguments or quibbles magically disappeared.

hambone

very very happy. and we just got through her law school unscathed which is not a small feat (considering the record of some of her law school pals).

yes, we have had arguments, but it always leads to a better relationship in the end

__________________
"Like liquid white from fallen glass,
Nothing to cry over"

abaya

It needs a lot of people... I know who some of them are, but they're not gracing us with their presence yet. Agreed. Anyone who does not take that into account, at least to some level, when trying to figure out what's going on with their marriage, is not getting the full picture. I mean sure, you can have a wealthy couple who have TONS of issues and will still end up divorced because of an inability to work through those... and you can certainly have a poor couple who are very happy and compatible, etc etc. But overall, I do think that financial security goes a LOOOONG way towards providing a stable foundation for any marriage.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Grasshopper Green

I chose mostly satisfying with some issues.

Hubby and I met and started our relationship when he was 17 and I was 18...we are now 29 and 30 and have been married 8 years. We've been close to divorce twice and have had some major problems (mostly my fault) including, at times, a lackluster sex life. However, we mesh really well together - we have similar political and religious views and a lot of common interests and goals. We get along with each other's families great (although both have been sources of tension at times). The past couple of years we have really matured as a couple and I've found myself "falling in love" with him again. We were so young when we met and we've both changed drastically since then...lucky for us that we've grown together instead of apart. With "starter" marriages seemingly becoming more common...I feel we must have done something right.

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

abaya

Yes, what IS with the increase in talk about "starter" marriages? The way some people talk about it, it's like it's just an assumption now that your first marriage will fail. I don't get it. Are people just trying to keep their expectations low so they can get out without a huge disappointment? I don't understand putting any less than 100% (or more!) into your marriage, I don't care what "number" it is... from before you even get engaged. If it doesn't work out, then that's something else. But this whole trend of "starter" marriages just doesn't sit right with me.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Charlatan

We've been together for 20 years and married for 15 years this summer.

We've had some rough moments in the early days but it's been pretty smooth sailing over the past while. The main key to making it work has been communication and compromise. I think when it comes down to it we are reasonable people. We don't worry about little things but make sure to give notice to the other that it's bothersome (e.g. she can never put the new roll of toilet paper back on the dispenser -- why *is* it always the bathroom? -- I don't care *that* much about it).

The few problems we have, while annoying, are relatively minor and we work at them or have solved them (things like money and house cleaning). We solve them through communication and compromise.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Sweetpea

abaya, I think you hit it on the head when you said that you look at marriage as a learning process...

That is how Topper and I feel. We are coming up on our 6th! wedding anniversary and I can't believe how much we've been grown and changed and how lucky we are to have one another.

Our marriage had it's ups and downs in the first couple years, but I think that was mostly due to my anxiety issues. Once I got into therapy, I really gained some massive self awareness and was able to recognize my negative habits and address them. Topper has been patient with me through it all and very supportive. He is not perfect, with a tendency to overstress about work, but he has gained awareness about that and has better self care than he used to, which I am proud of him for.

I think what makes us... Us. is that we have been best friends since we were 14 and we know each other through and through and it's that kind of humble synergy that always sees us through. Without a doubt, when something good or bad happens, he is always the first person I want to talk to about it and he feels the same about me, we are each other's greatest support and cheerleaders.

Having invited the concept of a girlfriend into our marriage for the past year in the form of our lovely W has been a journey and has also been part of my growth in my sexuality, which he is supportive of and for that, I am lucky.

Our sex life gets better every year, as we are both very passionate people, so we are finding new ways to enjoy each other's bodies all the time. I think it's that committment to keeping things sexy and fun that really add to our sex life. Also... our willingness to talk about issues that may arise in a non-defensive manner is something we finally have down pat. So... with communication and openess, we really are getting each other's needs met

I agree that most people don't really like to talk about their marriages... and this thread was a great one to start the discussion. kudos.

thanks,

sweetpea

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"I am the Type of Person Who Can Get Away With A lot, Simply Because I Don't Ask Permission for the Privilege of Being Myself"

Psycho Dad

Funny. I tend these days to forget the early years. But your post reminded me.

In a way, being poor earlier has good memories. We used to go out after Thanksgiving dinner and cut down an old cedar tree for a Christmas tree. Now Thanksgiving isn't even over before my wife and her sisters are ready for Black Friday and it is totally against what Christmas means what my wife spends these days on a tree that we often barely find time to put up before Christmas.

We had two old cars and the one we drove at the time was whichever cost less to repair. Now we have three vehicles and my wife's agency furnishes a fourth.

We even had our favorite varieties of Hamburger Helper and payday Fridays we could buy canned Chinese food to fix at home. Now we buy groceries that spoil in the fridge and we eat out entirely too much.

But those early years were hell too. Finances can be a terrible strain on a relationship. We both tend to agree that our families were not what could be considered very supportive. Had they came to one of us and said "you really need to leave him/her" we may have never made it. But as all we had was each other. We stuck it out, raised a good family and are as happy as anyone could ever hope for.

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Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

grumpyolddude

QW and I were supposed to be a disaster, based on the opinions of "friends" and family way back when. She's the product of a classically dysfunctional, multidivorce family, and I'm a lazy, no-good hippie. 28.5 years later, we're cruisin' and most around us have fallen apart... some of them more than once.

Actually, it's a miracle that we survived. We have been through a ton of shit together,and almost faltered on an occasion or two. There's a lot to be said for just holding on tight and trusting the love I cannot imagine having gone this long with anyone else on the face of the earth.

There's issues every day. Without 'em, I probably wouldn't even have a pulse. That's called "life"... and "love."

__________________
"Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

Fotzlid

Nope. No counseling yet. I haven't ruled it out yet either. Wouldn't be the energy for it but more finding the time to do it properly.

william

It sounds cliche, but communication is key. Well, that and open finances. My wife and I talk about everything and split the bills. We earn about the same, and spend about the same for the basics (i.e.-she pays power; I pay comcast). When need be, we help each other out. Key word - communication.