Miss Mango

What do you think about the FA movement?

Fat Acceptance

naafa.org = National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance

I was a fat kid, fat adolescent and fat young adult. Within the last 2 years Ive worked to change my body so that I could be more healthy. There is adult-onset diabetes on both sides of the family and high cholesterol as well and I didnt want that to happen to me. I wasnt happy or healthy and I realized it was because of my weight. While its not a cure-all, its one thing I could work on about myself and have a tremendous impact.

But being a fat girl for most of my life definitely had its own impact. Part of denying that I was unhealthy and unhappy was empowering myself through a sort of unspoken underground Fat Movement. Beth Ditto of The Gossip who I admire greatly is a Fat Girl and proud of it. Its part of her identity and young girls look up to her, fat and thin alike for various reasons.

I still think of myself as a fat girl in that I know what its like to be discriminated against and treated differently. I want to have solidarity with other people who have weight issues because this issue will never go away for me. Its something Ill deal with for the rest of my life and I need support.

I think discrimination against overweight people is probably the last taboo. Weve talked about race, class, sexual orientation, but mums the word on fat. I know that fat does not necessarily equal unhealthy or unattractive or unlovable. My own personal decision to become thinner is mine alone, but I still struggle inside when I see obese people.

I like that NAAFA is trying to speak out and create a space to talk about fat discrimination, yet I still dont know how to reconcile this position within myself.

Some of my friends thinks that NAAFA a load of crap for the most part, designed to make people whore too lazy to lose weight feel better about themselves.

What are your thoughts?

Ustwo

For the VAST majority of people, being fat is a personal choice and as such I don't really care if they feel people are mean to them.

You can't eat your delicious cake and have it too here.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

high_jinx

i think there's a scientific line you cross. when you become unhealthily overweight, you are that, and sparing or cushioning your ego
or feelings about it is the last thing you should worry about. in fact, even if it seems empowering or outwardly beneficial, i'd have
to say "being proud of your fatness" could be more a hinderance to positive change.

nobody deserves to be ridiculed, especially about some of their obviously worst personal problems when they're already painfully aware
of them... but i think often the sentiment from the people doing the teasing is that it's a form of "tough love" if they care about
you at all, and the hope is that the teasing will light a fire of change under your butt that you couldn't have lit before.

i just worry that the whole Fat and Proud of it can be a detrimental liscense to stay unhealthy i guess.

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-my phobia drowned while i was gettin down.

Willravel

TOTAL DENIAL, absolutely. I feel the utmost sympathy for overweight people, and I sincerely hope that they can find the strength to battle their problem, but accepting people as fat like it's their race or gender? That's massively disrespectful to real civil and equal rights causes.

If you're too fat to fit in a single seat on a plane, you better have to buy two tickets. Don't like it? Jenny Craig enjoys a reasonable success rate.

Martian

My attitude towards obesity could best be characterised as apathy. It's your body and your life. You can do whatever you want with it, as long as you're willing to accept the consequences of your lifestyle.

Nobody I know has ever said losing weight is easy, but it can be done. I think this is why the obese aren't really regarded as a valid minority; their distinction is perceived as self-inflicted.

And calling out discrimination because you can't fit in an airplane/cinema seat, well that's just ridiculous. The people who make such things design them to be accesible to the mean average customer. Making exceptions hurts their profit margin. Accomodating someone who is wheelchair-bound or hearing impaired is one thing, but accomodating massive obesity isn't really seen as necessary. Again, these people are considered as having done it to themselves.

I understand that nobody chooses to be obese. At the same time, we have many members here who are capable of saying that they have successfully brought their weight under control (yourself included, I assume). onesnowyowl, Shauk, Lasereth and others all made the commitment to their health and it's paid dividends. If someone chooses not to make that commitment, and chooses a sedentary lifestyle and unhealthy diet then I've no sympathy for them when they pay the price. You don't fit in 'normal' life? That's the consequences mentioned above.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Cynthetiq

I was at the Chicago airport the other day and a wheelchair whizzed past me. I couldn't figure out what was so strange about it when it passed, until I saw another one. It was ENORMOUS!!! It was well beyond the 24.5 to 26.5 inches normal wheelchair.

So I looked up extra wide wheelchairs... and low and behold there are such things.

This makes me wonder just how effective ADA has been since people with these extra wide wheelchairs are now locked out of most doorways just like before ADA compliance.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Willravel

They have dishonored the Eclipse name.

Giant Hamburger

The only time I discriminate against fat people is when the fat, "funny" man is paired up with the slim, attractive woman in commercials and situation comedies.

Besides that, it's "live and let die" for me.

I would gladly attend a meeting of The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance but only because I suspect the snacks would be plentiful and delicious.

Willravel

Don't be fooled, even the best suppers can come with stale bread and wine from a box:

Derwood

to compare fat acceptance to any other civil rights movement is beyond laughable

Redlemon

As a massage therapist, I see a wide range of people. Many are overweight. At the first session, I do a health intake. 90% of my significantly-overweight clients are on medications for high cholesterol, high blood pressure, diabetes, and similar issues. I would be uncomfortable if the FAM resulted in people also becoming comfortable/complacent with the serious health issues that typically occur.

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

Ustwo

I think they meant eclipse, like as in blot out the sun.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

echo5delta

I think what the Fat Acceptance movement is doing seems almost deceptive.

There's a critical difference in accepting fat people for who they are and condoning obesity. As long as those two lines aren't blurred - which, really, is impossible for most people to do - then it's a valid debate.

__________________
"Peace" is when nobody's shooting. A "Just Peace" is when we get what we want. - Bill Mauldin

ngdawg

I was heavy-won't go so far as to say "fat", because, technically, I wasn't. But my knees blew out, my thighs played music when I walked and only pants with elastic in the waist felt ok.
I'd had enough, lost 45 lbs and developed total disgust for anyone who chose to waddle through life.
It's like my choice to smoke. It's hard to quit, really hard. But ultimately, it's been my choice to continue, knowing the health risks.
My best friend is overweight. Her thyroid gland is out of control and she's on meds for it. She's also on heart, blood pressure and cholesterol meds, mostly due to the thyroid problems. She struggles to lose, so she says, but I've seen her eat and she could chow a trucker under the table.
I've seen grossly obese people stand before me in fast food lines, order the full biggy sized meals, then get a diet coke. I'd guarantee they go home, wolf it all down, then whine how fat they are.
A friend of mine was asked by her doctor if she'd made her will as she will probably be dead in two years due to her morbid obesity. She had her stomach stapled, almost died while recooperating, but now she's a svelt size 2 and thrilled about it.
Sorry, but just as no one has sympathy for my bad health habits, I have no sympathy for the overweight. No one's born fat-it's acquired. And if your parents are fat, the chances of you being fat have as much to do with how they teach you to eat as much as the so-called "fat gene".

highthief

90% of overweight people are oveweight because they eat too much and don't exercise. Why should I have sympathy for them? Stop whining, eat less and exercise more, fatboy.

For the 10% who have real issues with their health that makes them overweight, I have a lot of sympathy. I hope science and medicine will be able to help them conquer this.

Alas, it's hard to tell them apart in the street.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

RetroGunslinger

If you're genetically fat, I feel bad for you, but if you're the other already noted 90%, put down the fork and buy a fucking treadmill.

__________________
It's a rare pleasure in this world to get your mind fucked. Usually it's just foreplay.

M.B. Keene

Giant Hamburger

Listen. And understand. The fat people are out there. They can't be bargained with.
They can't be reasoned with. They doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear.

And they absolutely will not stop, ever, until your food is gone.

inBOIL

I've never had a problem with others being fat, as long as their size doesn't inconvenience me or others. As long as I don't have to sit squished up against an airplane window for hours, or pay higher insurance rates because of someone's triple bypass surgery, other people's decision to be fat doesn't bother me.

I have noticed, however, that there are quite a few people who seem to be bothered simply by the existence of fat people. They act as though the presence of a fat person in their field of vision is an affront, and the hateful comments that follow are delivered in the same manner as racist comments. The look is also the same. It's that look that says "great, it's one of those people." Fat people aren't just subjected to disapproval of their habits; there's a genuine hatred for them that's widespread, and that I just can't understand.

__________________
And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

Shauk

I'm fat and I know it and I hope people continue to discriminate against me for it. It only helps me to motivate myself to rise above it and better myself. Being fat isn't fun. Having been in shape once before, I know how much better it REALLY is, it's not just about how you look, but how you feel.

Theres no need for someone to pander to my laziness.

Giant Hamburger

Taken from H. G. Well's Tono Bungay

Charlatan

I agree with this.

I was overweight. Now I am not. It takes eating less and getting some exercise. I see this movement as people sticking their heads in the sand. They are in denial that they are killing themselves with bad eating and lack of exercise.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Derwood

three cheers for our "blame everyone else" culture!

echo5delta

Sometimes, even a silly, entertaining movie gets it right...

__________________
"Peace" is when nobody's shooting. A "Just Peace" is when we get what we want. - Bill Mauldin

RetroGunslinger

I'd also like to add that the "Fat is Beautiful" slogan kind of pisses me off.

Yes, there are people who really like fat people sex. However, there's also 2Girls1Cup.*



*Please note, to whoever will want to reprimand me for this, that I'm not being a hater. I'm cool with fat people, but glorifying something like being a raging garbage disposal of doomedy death is just stupid.

__________________
It's a rare pleasure in this world to get your mind fucked. Usually it's just foreplay.

M.B. Keene

mixedmedia

Being an asshole is not a virtue. I don't see a reason to be mean or disrespectful to someone because they are fat.

And from what I can tell, no one is asking you to 'feel sorry' for them.

I think there is a line to be drawn as far as accommodations we make in public transportation and so forth, but I absolutely believe that discrimination and harrassment in the workplace should be penalized just like any other variety of bad behavior.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Ustwo

Its not discrimination I am worried about, its so many of them wanting to be treated as if they had a disability.

Employers should not be forced to accommodate someone because they can't keep delicious pie out of their pie hole.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

mixedmedia

Well, with the way obesity statistics are increasing, employers may not have a choice. In fact, and I could be wrong here 'cause I'm just going off of memory, but statistically people who are not overweight are a minority in this country. And the numbers of people who are 'obese' are rising every year.

We're just a country of fat, stupid, lazy motherfuckers. God damn America.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

RetroGunslinger

... I'm not fat....

__________________
It's a rare pleasure in this world to get your mind fucked. Usually it's just foreplay.

M.B. Keene

mixedmedia

two out of three ain't bad

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Shauk

I'm just fat cuz I go down to the food court and opt to buy buffet trips by the pound instead of walking a few blocks and picking up a veggie sub. Or because I'll take the escalator out of the transit center instead of the stairs. Or because I'll go home and work on music instead of go to the gym and work on my body. These are all CHOICES I've made, and I'm in the process of un-making them. It's really that simple, eat better, treat yourself better, don't stick with convenience for the sake of convenience if you stand to gain "character" from doing it the hard/old fashioned way.

Charlatan

We need to take a very long and very serious look at the food chain and what we are eating. Cheap and convenient should not be an excuse to eat yourself to death.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Ustwo

I don't know what you mean here by food chain.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Fotzlid

I think the obesity epidemic is more related to the food supply than actual over-eating and lack of self control.
Go through your food cabinet and look at the ingredients. How many chemicals are in all those boxes and cans? How far do you have to drive to get a healthy meal vs a double cheeseburger with a supersized fries? How many different hormones are the cattle and chickens injected with to make them plumper with a bigger yield of meat?

RetroGunslinger

While I can't give you exact statistics or supply some philosophical diatribe about how it's all a matter of looking and how people need to stand up and take matters into their own hands, I can say that I really want a Burger King cheeseburger right now. Between you and Tony Stark, I'm a goner.

__________________
It's a rare pleasure in this world to get your mind fucked. Usually it's just foreplay.

M.B. Keene

Kpax

To me that movement, and this is just my humble opinion, is just like when the balding Pharoah, instead of spending gold and treasure on sages to come up with a way to grow hair, had his entire kingdom also shave their heads.

Instead of changing himself, he made others adapt to him.

I guess that's not necessarily bad, if it works.

highthief

It's very much to do with overeating - average caloric consumption has gone up considerably in the west in the last 50 years while the physical demands of our jobs have gone down. Simple as.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications.../frsept99a.pdf

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

The_Dunedan

If someone has genetic or health issues which cause them to be overweight, they have my sympathies. Known several people like that.

Unfortunately, I've also known several more people who were hugely overweight and not only expected the world to accomodate them, but to validate their choice (there's that pesky word again) to blow up to 350lbs and make all but inevitable the heart disease, diabetes, various cancers, breathing problems and $500 air-conditioning bills which follow. I had a woman once, about 5'3x3'6, upbraid me for a solid 90 seconds about how the fact that the History building at my Uni had no elevators was discrimination. I asked her why she didn't take the stairs; it turned out she'd broken her leg a couple of years before while stepping off a curb. I asked why she didn't exercise in order to lose weight so she -could- take the stairs, and was informed that she was "too fat to exercise, and fine the way I am!" A girl I knew in Junior High who weighed over 300lbs before she was 14 managed to break her leg (tib and fib) in two places because her bones couldn't handle the weight.

But what really gripes me are the "fat is beautiful" people. No, it isn't. "Fat" is a foghorn screaming "Evolutionary dead end!" The obvious genetic/health exceptions aside, "fat" is a sign that the person lacks even the rudimentary discipline and self-control to dodge the veeeery slow-moving bullets described above. There's a reason people conflate "fat" and "stupid." If you have a choice, it's really frikkin' dumb to be fat. I don't validate people's decision to drink and drive, play with loaded guns, or gargle acetone: neither will I validate an equally ludicrous decision to weigh 300 pounds at 25 years old and 5'4. I don't find acetone-gargling attractive, nor drunken driving, nor jiggling rolls of suet walking around in shirts meant for a size-2 teenager. No amount of makup, tight shirts, and undersized high-heeled shoes can make someone like that attractive: it may make them -feel- attractive, but it makes everyone around them feel nauseous.

Sorry to sound like an ass, folks, but this one's a pet peeve of mine. Anyone who's ever been sat next to someone this big on an airline knows what I mean. When the Rotundimus Maximus in the next seat has spilled over and pinned you against the far arm-rest because they wouldn't buy the two seats their ass actually requires, it tends to inculcate a dim view of such people.

Baraka_Guru

In the study, published in the January/February issue of General Hospital Psychiatry, researchers interviewed 4,641 female health-plan enrollees, ages 40 to 65, by phone. The women responded to items on height, weight, exercise levels, dietary habits and body image. They also completed the Patient Health Questionnaire, a measure of depression symptoms.

Women with clinical depression were more than twice as likely to be obese, defined as having a body-mass index (BMI) of 30 or more; likewise, obese women were more than twice as likely to be depressed.

—"Obesity, Depression Often Coexist In Middle-Aged Women," Science News

* * *

Results of the research showed, that people, having adiposity, suffered from anxious and emotional disorders, including depression, 25% more often. At the same time, fatty people abused alcohol and drugs 25% less frequently, than their slenderer brothers.

Now scientists are still not ready to answer a question, whether depresion is a reason or result of adiposity, as both variants are quite possible. It’s known, that depressed people experience fall of physical activity. Moreover, medicines, used for its treatment, can cause weight gain. On the other hand, fatty people become butts more often, what surely affects their mood.
Both depression and adiposity are widespread. About one third of adult Americans suffers from adiposity, and depression is detected in 10% of population (about 21 millions of people).

—"Overweight people suffer from depression more often," Woman’s Passions: Women’s Lifestyle Magazine

Things aren't quite as cut and dried as I've read here so far. It's not just about caloric intake and energy output. People aren't machines. This here doesn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to a significant proportion of overweight people. But depression is another one of those things that some people find hard to swallow.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

The_Dunedan

It still comes down to a decision. Nobody (attention-whoring teenagers aside) chooses to be depressed. Unless someone has a genetic or health issue which prevents them from losing weight, they -do- choose to be fat, the same way people choose to smoke cigarettes, shoot smack, or gargle acetone.

spindles

I think part of the point is that the stuff we buy in our supermarkets is chock full of sugar (of one kind or another) and it is a bucket load more work to buy ingredients and cook food from first principles, rather than pull a packet of X out of the cupboard or buy a cheeseburger meal.

This comes back to mixedmedia's point that western people are lazy.

It is possible to eat healthily - you just need to make an effort.

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