Shauk

ORANGE TEXT IS ORANGE


yeah, to reference the 1st post you quoted, I find it offensive to others, not so much myself. I really don't mind, I went pages and pages without replying but I just had my brain start to twitch that people were taking it SO SO seriously.

Really, who's being hurt by the phrase "i'd hit it" ?

it's not intended for the would be "hittee" to hear anyway.* If you say that to her face, you're being too forward, you're going to make her uncomfortable, you're going to come across like a jackass, it's fine to be sexually attracted to another person, its fine to convey that to them, but I think people should make no mistake here and truly realize that women, are going to choose what they want, despite what you do/try/say/think/feel. They will make exceptions and accept flaws if they think you have something they want, be it a quality or value or just flat out attraction.

So in truth, this thread is a giant "nice guys finish last" rant in disguise to me.

*Much like my journal isn't for people I write about to read, or much like something you tell your buddies in confidence isn't to be shared, and really, I think "I'd hit it" is pretty much just a way of seeking validation of your attraction amongst your peers, kinda like a very brief way of saying "Wow I think she's attractive, you guys notice her?" yes, it's more crude than the phase I just wrote, it's very base and it's like "hey this was my initial reaction before i've had time to go find out if she has a personality.

Attraction happens. deal.

Jinn

I don't actually believe this about you, but your post read like a rant rather than an educated response. If you don't believe what you initially posted (perhaps it was hyperbole), perhaps you could clarify:

Why do you believe that asking if there is a "better way" to express your sexual desire "insults" you? The way it is written seems to imply that you believe you are entitled to "express yourself sexually" no matter what. My "poor little baby" was a bit inflammatory, and I apologize. It just reads like a person who feels entitled to do something regardless of how it might make other people feel.

As for this:

I still maintain that this is an ignorant position. Not that you in particular are ignorant, but holding a position like this reveals an ignorance to the fact that women are subjected to unwanted sexual desire without themselves inviting it by their clothing or profession. There are plenty of women wearing business suits who still receive unwanted jeers or advances. To believe that they deserved it, therefore, would be a position ignorant of what really happens.

In response to this:

I was probably too rude. I just don't see this as convincing evidence of anything, really. It reads like a verbal re-telling of a story, not like a reasoned argument.

And finally, my response to:

Follows the same reasoning. It doesn't appear that you've been conventionally educated on what the "pursuit of equality" is, or you wouldn't present a straw man such as this. Perhaps you could clarify what you think the "goal" of the fight for equality is?

[EDIT: Your latest post]
You, like willravel, make the mistake of assuming that because YOU aren't offended by something means that no one is.

As for the belief that this is a "nice guys rant" in disguise, you've got me in the wrong box. I'm anything but a nice guy. I just strongly believe in the idea that the words we use dramatically effects us, our surroundings, and eventually our world.

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mixedmedia

Uhhhh, let me get this straight. You are offended, personally, by the discussion of behavior that some of us here feel offended by? Ow, my head.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Ustwo

You know, this may come as a shock but we don't lock the fat girls up in the US and keep them from going swimming. Women in the US see EVERY body type quite a bit, we are a 'large' nation. I'm pretty sure they shower naked too before going in the pool, at least thats the rule on the door.

Really comparing anywhere to iceland is a bit difficult. Iceland is for all intents one people, and my suburb has almost 2/3rds its population. If you include a neighboring one, we have a greater population, and a more diverse one.

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Willravel

And YOU have made the mistake of ASSUMING that because something is sexual in nature it's inherently HORRIBLE and DEEPLY oFfEnSiVe. NG and Shani, people who are much more woman than you'll ever be, have said it doesn't bother them at all, and MM and Abaya have each said that it's not a big deal.

Just what will it take for you to understand that "I'd hit it" is AT WORST kinda rude and a reflection of bad character? At best it's a friggin compliment. You're acting like it's the N word for women. It's not. It's more like calling a black man "articulate", actually, in that some might find it sorta offensive but many don't really care.

snowy

Have you been in a women's locker room lately?

I can honestly tell you that the majority of women do not shower out in the open in the locker room. The university gym's locker room here is half open, half closed off cubicles, and the open half rarely gets used. And the rinse-off shower required before getting in a pool does not require nudity. Nudity is actually quite hard to come by; Americans don't have the same sense of skinship that other cultures do. We see the body as something that needs to be covered. Even in the sauna, I've only ever seen one or two women besides myself naked. I joined another gym last year, and one of their selling points was the individual changing room/shower room/bathroom combinations instead of locker rooms.

/threadjack

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Shauk

It doesn't insult ME, i'm not that sexually expressive, sure, i like talking about it, participating in it, but it doesn't motivate me to do anything, I don't aspire to "get laid", I don't live for it, i've never been to a strip club. I think girls are entitled to participate in being sexual objects if they want, if they want to have sex on film, or wear skimpy clothes on music videos, good for them, thats what they choose to do. If this was a discussion on slavery, it'd be different, but this is a product of a team of individuals exercising their freedoms to CHOOSE, There are some beautiful women in the world and I APPRECIATE that they share that with the world, and yeah my base reaction to my exposure to some of these is admittedly "i'd hit it" and yeah I might even say it outloud to a guy friend or 2, but now we're supposed to read this thread and shuffle our feet and feel guilty for an admission of how we feel? Isn't that repression? We're supposed to be ashamed of this and keep it to ourselves? This is what we need to adopt as a social grace? so not only is the GBLT scene repressed we want to throw ourselves into that category with them? What next? white guilt?

Those people have to grow up having feelings for people that society tells them is wrong to do so and get all mentally damaged over it, because people keep putting rules and rules and rules in place when they really aren't even in a position to be making said rules. They don't speak for everyone.

if anything I just think we're supposed to be cool with going the other direction and being able to say "hey, this is where I stand sexually on this particular person" to a friend be it eloquent or crude, just at least be expressive and communicate.

I never once stated it was "deserved" and I, am trying to stick with the "i'd hit it" topic as an idea of "expression" instead of "harrassment" Some people are attractive to me, i'm not going to worry about the potential that this girl has me in her "unwanted advances" category because society will grind to a halt the minute people adopt that line of thinking, we're already dealing with that crap in the workplace that so much as asking for a date is grounds for harassment when it shouldn't be. A simple question with a simple answer and leave it at that, if she says no, then great, leave it at that. If it continues, then yeah it's harassment. What she deserves is really up to the person who's in a position to offer her anything, a deserving person cannot receive anything without someone to give her that thing she deserves, be it attention, a compliment, or if I may say so at the risk of being labeled "crude" good ol sex.


I'm as equally able to be sexually objectified as any woman is, and if you think johnny depp isn't fantasized about by some woman, or brad pitt, or.. so on and so on, you've got to be joking.

I call that pretty equal. They "choose" to have pictures of themselves taken in the near nude, shirtless and watered down, touched up in photoshop, whatever, the same process a female model would go through.

I don't understand your dilemma

yeah, I didn't express myself very clearly, hopefully my last post clears things up a little.

match000

That's prolly cuz everyone's obese and is in some way ashamed of showing their body. It *is* the US, after all, the land of rampant obesity.

abaya

Nope. See Snowy's post. Sorry Ustwo, you can't pretend to be an expert on this one, unless you start dressing as a woman and hanging out in American women's locker rooms for 12 years of public education and an entire lifetime at the local swimming pool. What does your wife say? Now this paragraph, I do agree with... Iceland is a pretty crazy little country, and it's tough to generalize that out to bigger nations. However, that doesn't mean the points I make about Iceland are invalid. There are some things about this place that I do appreciate (very few, believe me)... one of them is the openness about women's bodies and sex that they have here, in comparison with the US (and even more in comparison with other countries, once again usually non-Western ones).

There's a shit-ton of obese people here in Iceland, too. And yet people walk around in bikinis and speedos like it's no thing, because there just isn't the same sense of "shame" about one's body ingrained in people here.

__________________
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for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
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ngdawg

Wow...I haven't seen a conversation go this long and on such a topic since Tec's back deck many moons ago.....
Pass the chips....

Willravel

So, you're saying he's an expert?

uncle phil

wow...

ng, neither have i...

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Ustwo

Don't know about every locker room out there but I do know when my wife goes to the gym there are fully nude women in hers. I know this sadly not from hidden camera shots but the rather amusing commends my son was making at age 2 while in there with her.

'Look mommy boobies! Boobies! Boobies!'

Ah thats my boy.

But seriously don't give me this covered up non-sense. I could do without seeing another 14 year old girl 60lbs over weight showing her fat roll in a bare midriff shirt at the mall hanging around hot topic. I'll add spandex is NOT for everyone.

No we are not a puritanical society, not in the least. I deal with kids pretty much every day of those ages, and I know what they wear/don't ware. Nothing says 'prude' like a shorts that say juicy with a thong at 12.

We might be a degree short of Europeans but only a small degree, and the first nude beach I have been on was in the good old USA.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

roachboy

here's a curious sidebar to all this.
i was considering pasting the entire oed definition of the verb "to hit" but before i copied it, i looked at the etymology and now am confused. so there are 28 definitions of the verb, almost all of which have to do with delivering a blow, striking or a derivation of striking. but they all come from this root:

all of which make me wonder if this curious little expression was launched by some drunken etymology-obsessed gentleman in a publick house somewhere.

it's a shame these slang bits don't travel with footnotes...

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it make you sick.

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mixedmedia

I think a big problem with this discussion is that people are talking around each other. So let me clarify two things:

1. I have stated that these kinds of comments in a joking or ironic manner are completely acceptable to me, because using them in a joking or ironic manner is making a statement in a negative way about the use of them in a serious or habitual manner. In other words, if you are truly using these phrases in a joking or ironic manner you are acknowledging that the use of them is a joke - something to be made fun of. This is the context in which I consider the phrases to be casual. And this sort of use doesn't bother me, obviously, because I do think it is a joke...as in, deserving of mockery.

2. Now, I have also stated that I do support Jinn's assertion that the widespread usage of these terms could be symptomatic of the commonplace sexual objectification of women. And I think the guys here expressing their 100%, no-doubt-whatsoever convictions that the prevalence of sexualized images of women in the media have had no effect on their perspectives towards women and this issue (and women's perspectives about themselves and their role in society) are either in denial or afraid of losin' out on that good thing they got goin' on. Is being able to spout inane comments and see half-naked chicks rubbin' up on beer bottles during halftime on Sundays really worth dismissing outright the negative consequences that perhaps are being proliferated by these things? Wait, don't answer that.

I look over this discussion and I see an attempt at dialogue by some people and an attempt to squelch the dialogue by others. And I'm really puzzled as to why it has engendered so much possessive obstinacy in some people. What exactly is being threatened by this discussion? I've seen far less visceral reactions to issues like torture and the death penalty than is being exhibited on this thread. The more I think about it, the more I have to wonder exactly what is the nerve being hit here.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

ngdawg

I might ask the same thing. You're taking this way too personally. Given what you've dealt with in the past, at least what you've shared, I think there's an issue of sensitivity that transcends a mere not liking the phrase.
This is not to say you should; if you think something is rude, then to you, it's rude. But your comments border on male bashing or at the very least, projection of an incident or incidents onto specific members of society.

Sexual objectivity is a fact of life, no matter how much we wish it'd go away. Everyone of us is guilty of it, whether in public of private. We don't wear sweats and dirty tshirts to turn on our men, we wear lingerie. We don't think dirty thoughts about the bald guy with the beer gut, we think them about the likes of a Brad Pitt(well, I don't, can't stand the guy, but as an analogy....).
If someone doesn't have the manners to keep his "I'd hit that" to a whisper, you don't have to acknowlege it. On the other hand, Ratbastid's legendary drunken "I could SO do you" got him quite the lovely arrangement....

mixedmedia

I think that's a little cheap, ng, and it presumes...a lot. Chiefly, it presumes that I would have felt differently before these things occurred 3 years ago. I won't get into the other things that I think it presumes. Maybe in another discussion.

Again, I don't feel like this really addresses the questions and concerns I've expressed on this thread. I keep getting told that I just don't understand how people are. Well, yes I do. I am a person, too. I have my own thoughts and feelings about the subject, and just because I am in the minority on this thread doesn't mean I'm the only person thinking them.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Plan9

I'd hit ALL of you.

*hip thrust*

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ngdawg

Didn't mean it to be...but yea, it presumes because of what's been said, not that it may have been different in some time frame before. I mean, of all things to be so "insulted" or adamant about, this is what's so evil?? A crude comment or two?
I think the comments were made about not knowing how some guys' minds are, not about how people are.
Your concerns have been "addressed" just not in the manner you might have hoped for(more presumptions, but, hey...sue me )
Just seems that, with 6 pages of this, a lot more is being made of a simple phrase than is warranted. It is a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously.
And to say that men are the ones who claim not to be affected by the sexualized view of women and not recognize that women too are affected is just as much a denial as you claim has been shown here.
We do it to each other, we do it to ourselves. We show ourselves in a way to invite an "I'd hit that". It's when you* turn around and get indignant about the very thing you invited that you can expect not to have your views or comments taken seriously. This is not to say that anything more deviant than commentary should be expected, but let's not kid ourselves.

That's a few more words than I planned on on this subject......



*you is collective and not meant as a personal finger pointing.

mixedmedia

Well, to presume that my opinions are being skewed by my experience you would have to, by necessity, assume that I was different before it happened. I have lots of strong opinions about a lot of things, doesn't mean they're all floating around out there on the vagaries of my own personal experience.

I think your perspective is just as skewed and overly defensive as several of the other people on this thread. There is hardly a consensus here against my point of view. And for the record, please show me examples of where I have stated how evil this is and how deeply insulted I am. What I see, especially after going back and looking at the responses to my initial posts, is a grossly over-defensive reaction to my point of view.

Again, instead of actually addressing my comments (and no they haven't been addressed directly, frankly, respectfully and honestly) you want to make a case about how I just don't understand. I sense in this reply something a little more than simple disagreement and more like a beef, so I'm gonna leave it at that.

But, you know, you did answer one question for me. In that, if a woman acknowledges her own sexuality in a public way then she has forfeited the right to defend herself from exploitation. Good to know. Then all this high-handed talk around here about it being safe to explore one's sexuality and refraining from making cheap or insulting comments is just a load of bullshit to make women feel more comfortable about posting naked pictures of themselves. I can't believe I have found a use for the word 'hornswoggled' twice in one day. Guess it's just one of them days, lol.

All I can say to this, is that it's too bad that your personal experiences have left you with this rather bleak outlook on men.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Ustwo

Huh?

The dots, I can not connect them.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

aberkok

Seems clear to me, Ustwo. Below is an example of this line of thinking:

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mixedmedia

Click.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Ustwo

I was unaware that powerclown and ngdawg were the same person.



This upsets and confuses me.

But still with this new information at my disposal, and powerclown I really wish you would have told me this sooner, it still answers nothing about said exploitation.

Where is the exploitation that apparently ngdawg/powerclown has said they have a forfeited their rights too?

I can only conclude that being objectified means you are exploited. Is this the intent or is there some other exploitation I'm missing.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

mixedmedia

It's this statement. And I can't wait to see the acrobatics involved in pointing out just how misunderstood I am about this statement. It's pretty plain: because I posted pictures of myself here, I don't deserve to be taken seriously on this subject. (disclaimers not withstanding, for if it is not directed at me, then who is it being directed at?) But regardless of who it is directed at, the message is plain.

Not to mention that the crux of this issue is not with women posting pictures of themselves on the internet, but simply walking out of their door on any particular day where they will encounter people who have no idea what they're doing on the internet.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

JumpinJesus

All I'm getting from this thread after the 4th page is:

Uh-huh
Nuh-uh
Uh-huh
Nuh-uh

Throw in the occasional one-liner and thinly-veiled baiting and I'm beginning to wonder why this thread remains open.

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"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

mixedmedia

Oh, and just to clarify, I've never had what I would consider to be sexually offensive comments made about me here at TFP. Because here, we've decided that there should be, uh, rules about appropriate responses to female members and their posting of personal information and photographs. But if that is only a courtesy being made to make women feel at ease, then it's really just a meaningless bit of protocol meant to give women a false sense of security when participating in these more vulnerable ways. Because I highly doubt most women who post here, would post without them. And maybe that's okay for some women, but it kind of deflates the concept of 'evolution' for me and turns it into a sort of internet variation on 'of course, I'll still respect you in the morning.'

I do expect more, goddamnit, and not because of some unattainable sense of propriety, but because I already know it exists.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Shauk

This thread.

We choose to participate in it.

We are judged by what we post in it.

the judgements may not be welcome, however, on the other hand, some are acceptable.

for example, some people may agree with me and consider my reasoning sound, some people my disagree with me, and consider me a fool.

Either way, it's MY choice to participate in this thread. I'm not being exploited because someone is going "whoo hoo! a fool!"

I LIKE participating in threads, I don't HAVE to. I'm well aware of the risks of doing so, but I don't feel exploited despite the couple fo recent judgements passed on the thread.


There is a market for this forum, hence, it has members, it has partipants, it has lurkers.



everything i said above applies to women and the sex industry.

Sex appeal is a tangible sellable product, just because some people have an issue with it and want this to go away, and call it exploitation, objectification, or whatever buzzword, it's part of society, it's an acceptable part of society, it's legal, it makes billions, and as long as there are hormones, there will be sex, and as long as there is sex, and more demand than there is supply, it will be marketed and sold and women will make money off the men who want it because THEY CAN, they're in an optimal position to do so.


I dont understand why women who use their bodies are looked down upon?
is the brain also not a part of the body? why does it matter which part you use? not everyone is the same, some people play the hand they were dealt, and some people were dealt a better hand of hearts than spades. *shrug*

powerclown

We're not the same person.I didn't mean it that way at all...I'm sorry you took it that way. My comment was in poor taste, and I apologize. I just thought it was a little strange for people to be getting all up in arms about "I'd hit it" - something that apparently carries more weight with some than I realized, but looking back I can see your point and its implication, and you are correct. I've always understood and appreciated this place as an outlet for free expression - in all forms - and do not wish to tarnish that reputation in any way. So again, I'm sorry mixedmedia.

JumpinJesus

Unfortunately, there is too much of the, "yeah, yeah, I won't ask for more photos or make lewd comments, now where are the naked chicks of tfp??"

__________________
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

Shauk

and another thing, maybe i'm just weird, or maybe girls are just too used to their whole "pick and fuck" ability/power over men. But if I post pictures, if any man posts pictures of himself, I don't think a single one of us would blink an eye in frustration if a girl says something like "i'd hit it" straight to our face or in a post. I consider it flattery, I take it as a compliment, I daresay, I think it's kinda COOL.

Does that make me fucked up?

blah at all of this.

Martian

It makes me sad when nobody comments on pictures I post.

I want to feel pretty, dammit!

In other news, this whole topic makes me want to listen to the Offspring.
<embed src="http://www.seeqpod.net/cache/seeqpodSlimlineEmbed.swf" wmode="transparent" width="300" height="80" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" flashvars="domain=http://www.seeqpod.com&playlistXMLPath=http://www.seeqpod.com/api/music/getPlaylist?playlist_id=841943d008"></embed>

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I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

mixedmedia

I think the only thing that would make me want to listen to The Offspring is, perhaps, Nickelback. And luckily, thanks to my highly successful five-step Nickelback avoidance system, this never has to happen.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Martian

Hey, I like the Offspring. And I say that if it helps you to avoid Nickleback then it's all good.

FUN FACT - Dexter Holland is, by all accounts, a very smart man. He has a master's in molecular biology, and the only reason it isn't a PhD is because the Offspring took off before he could finish his studies.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

mixedmedia

Well, truthfully, I'm only familiar with a couple of their songs, but that genre really isn't my bag.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

abaya

ON = Old Norse. It must have come with the Vikings to England. We still use this word daily in Icelandic, since we basically speak Old Norse that has evolved a tiny bit over 1,200 years.

Að hitta = to meet (meet up with someone), though as far as I know, it's not related to the word for fuck (which is að ríða, or "to ride"). So in Iceland, presumably going back to the settlement of Norwegian Vikings here in 874, the usually pick-up line is "You want to ride?" (as in, ride a horse)--and yes, that is actually how people ask someone to come home with them from the bars. There is no such thing as dating in Iceland.

(Just woke up; thought I'd contribute some lighter fare.)

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Ustwo

Oh thank God, thats a relief.

All of my sexual fantasies are back in order now.

Yes you misunderstood. ngdawg's statement is if someone acts/dresses/projects themselves in a sexual manner they shouldn't be offended when people think of them in that context. You here is the imperial you so to speak.

You took it a step beyond though using the concept of exploitation, and I agree with ngdawg on this. IF you project your own sexuality you shouldn't be offended when thats picked up on. To use TFP for example even though it really doesn't matter what the example is, if you post pictures of your vagina spread eagle and then get upset if someone says 'I'd hit it' you are being unrealistic and naive.

You are not being exploited because someone thinks you are fuckable.

So I need to ask again, what is this exploitation that has you so upset? If its just that someone might say they would like to have sex with you when you are acting in a sexual way, I can't agree thats even wrong or close to exploitation. No one is defending someone just walking up to some random female and saying 'Oh I'd hit that, ya hey der mamma', but thats something completely different from the OP or even the concept of language such as this in the male vernacular.

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mixedmedia

I'm not talking about women who are posting spread eagle pictures of their vaginas. I guess I interpreted ng's comment that way because I am the one making comments here not some fictional woman posting naked pictures of herself or wearing hot pants to the grocery store and then whining when some guy says she looks sexy. Who has said anything about that?

The real women being addressed in this thread and by the OP are women on the street.

The implication is that if you have ever presented yourself in a way that could be seen as desirable by men, then you forfeit the right to make this argument. Bullshit.

What has made me, not upset, but adamant in my convictions and I've said it again and again is that it is not simply the phrase, but the implications of its widespread acceptance in our society. And let me tell you, it takes more than one viewpoint to create six pages of dialogue. I've found that the reaction to my viewpoint is far more emotional and over the top than I am being. You yourself have resorted to all sorts far-fetched statements and examples to make your case. The spread-eagle picture reference above being a perfect example of this. Rather, I maintain that it is I who have hit a nerve here, not vice versa and that hotspot has yet to be explained to me.

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roachboy

to back what mm said:

just read through the responses to this thread from the shocked and outraged gentlemen who cannot imagine why this particular phrase or phrases like them could possibly be at the least strange and at most problematic--how these responses are constructed such that ANY question about either the existence and actions of some inward fuckwit fratboy persona that enables/justifies/directs sexual desire is a threat to ALL forms of personae and ALL forms of male sexuality---how questions about the "right to be immature and stupid" gets asserted as an enormous non-sequitor than then nags about over and over in the bizarre little tunnel that is this thread----it is among the most proactively defensive threads i remember having seen on tfp.

and it's done without the SLIGHTEST trace of self-consciousness.
in fact, much of this seems to be a long series of arguments AGAINST self-consciousness.
as if sexuality is a space of immediacy and introducing self-consciousness into it fucks everything up.
where does this come from?


anyway defensiveness on this scale is a pretty clear indication that some nerve has been struck, and it seems to have to do with some commonalities in this community over the construction of masculinity and sexuality that is inhabited/invested in/lived through.

but it's not obvious *what exactly* has tripped all this...but it is obvious that something strange is going on here.

read the thread--take a break from busily defending your inner frat boy or from collapsing the particular into the universal or whatever other logical mistake you find yourself indulging in order to swat away whatever it is about this that has your panties in a twist---and read the thread.

it is a peculiar collective psychological document.

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