I want to convince a friend to get lasik.... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

high_jinx · 03-25-2008, 11:27 AM

I happen to be blessed with 13/20 vision and I have a horribly near-sighted friend that wears thick glasses. i've been trying to convince him to go for laser surgery. my argument is that his life will be better with that good of sight fused to his head compared to his yearly-thickening glasses between the extra peripheral vision granted by the glasses being on your eye and without the worries of glasses (scratches, bent frames, fog, etc...)

he, however is the type of guy that won't stand by the edge of a cliff with a gorgeous view at the end of a hike... not because he's afraid of heights, but because he's worried an earthquake will happen right that second... in other words, he's so hung up on the .00001% fail rate that he's not willing to risk it for the greater benefit.

first off, i'd like to hear from people about whether i should even be meddling with something personal like this to my friend, even though i'm doing it with the goal of improving his life. second, i'd like to hear any arguments you might have that might help sway him toward making the leap.

thanks.

Ustwo · 03-25-2008, 11:30 AM

Since its a voluntary procedure, that does have risk even if that risk isn't very great, he should really be the one to make up his mind on it on his own.

abaya · 03-25-2008, 11:31 AM

Is he unable to try contacts?...

Otherwise, I'm also hung up on the fail rate of Lasik, so I'll just wait for some other people to reply to this thread and hopefully encourage me.

But personally, I am fairly satisfied with contacts.

Cynthetiq · 03-25-2008, 11:34 AM

I only have 2 eyes and most information for me at this point comes in via my eyes.

I wear glasses and used to wear contacts. My vision I dunno what it is, but I can't clearly see my toes when I wake up in the morning.

I'm worried about the failure rate. While I would hope to not be the smaller percentage for the greater good, the whole idea that the failure rate is greater than zero is what concerns me. I already see the world with some halos due to eyelashes that grow inward. That surgery has not been don since I was a kid for that very important earthquake reason (I grew up in So. California) and having to be awake during the procedure with someone holding a knife just millimeters from my corneas.

Quote:

Source: Nytimes
View: Lasik Surgery: When the Fine Print Applies to You

March 13, 2008
Skin Deep
Lasik Surgery: When the Fine Print Applies to You
By ABBY ELLIN
I WAS vain.

That’s the only way I can explain why I willingly let a doctor cut my corneas with a laser: vanity.

Little did I know when I chose Lasik surgery that I would not end up satisfied like the friends and acquaintances who raved about their post-glasses existence. Instead, my days are complicated, since I am dealing with side effects that are far more bothersome than being unfashionably four-eyed.

I had been wearing eyeglasses since I was 8, and I was tired of never seeing the stars without glare, of not being able to go rock-climbing unless I secured my glasses. Not to mention the horn-rimmed barrier between me and a date.

I had trouble figuring out which side of a contact lens to stick onto my eye, so I never really gave contacts a chance.

I had been considering Lasik — short for laser-assisted in situ keratomileusis, which entails cutting and reshaping the cornea — since the Food and Drug Administration approved it in the late ’90s. Because I was not too nearsighted and not too old, ophthalmologists told me I was an excellent candidate. But I wanted to wait until more people had gone under the laser.

Roughly 800,000 patients have had Lasik annually since 2000, spending about $2.5 billion on the procedure every year, said David Harmon, the president of Market Scope, a research company for the ophthalmic industry in Manchester, Mo.

The American Society of Cataract and Refractive Surgery reports a 95.4-percent patient satisfaction rate for Lasik, based on a recent analysis of research worldwide. The researchers found 19 studies specifically addressing patient satisfaction from the last decade, encompassing roughly 2,022 patients. (Some had been post-op for a month; others for a decade).

Most ophthalmologists are confident about the efficacy of Lasik, as well as another popular procedure — photorefractive keratectomy, or P.R.K. Both are designed to correct nearsightedness, farsightedness and astigmatism.

“It’s very few people who don’t have a superb outcome, especially with the new technology,” said Dr. Marguerite McDonald, the president of the International Society of Refractive Surgery of the American Academy of Ophthalmology.

About five of my friends had undergone the surgery. “Life-changing,” they cooed. “Miraculous!” Because my 40th birthday was looming, my parents offered me either a cello or Lasik. I chose Lasik. But first, I looked up studies online and consulted three doctors. Each did a spate of tests and pronounced me an excellent candidate.

I asked about the risks, and they explained that some people come away with dry eye, double vision, decreased contrast sensitivity and decreased night vision. Some see halos around lights. I was assured these side effects were rare, and usually fleeting.

Ultimately, I chose Dr. Sandra Belmont, the founding director of the Laser Vision Correction Center at NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital/Weill Cornell Medical Center. Dr. Belmont also runs a corneal fellowship program at Manhattan Eye, Ear and Throat Hospital.

A doctor who was a patient of hers recommended her. She charges between $4,500 and $5,500; I paid $4,500, nearly $1,000 less than other quotes I had received, a consideration since my insurance, like most, does not cover elective surgery.

I signed a consent form confirming that I understood the risks. I thought I did understand them. I did not know then that 5 to 10 percent of patients need to have their vision fine-tuned — or in industry parlance, “enhanced” — after surgery because of an under- or over-correction, according to John Ciccone, a spokesman for the American Society of Cataract and Refractive Surgery.

Nor had I spoken to any individuals who wished they had never had the procedure — of which, I have since learned, there are plenty.

On April 13, 2007, I had the surgery. Dr. Belmont’s colleague examined me the next day. My vision was a little blurry, but apparently that was normal. Dr. Belmont said that everything looked good on subsequent visits, too. But the blurriness never went away.

At night, I saw halos around streetlights; neon signs bled; the moon had two rings around it like Saturn. My eyes felt sore, a result of dry eye, which also causes sporadic blurriness.

Dr. Belmont told me that sometimes women of a certain age who are undergoing hormonal changes or who take certain medications get dry eye. It would have been nice if I’d known my advanced age (39) might be problematic before I sat in the chair.

I cut out all prescription and nonprescription pills. Didn’t help. The doctor told me to use Refresh Plus, over-the-counter drops that temporarily help dry eye. The drops cost around $12 a box; I go through two boxes a week. She also prescribed Restasis eye drops, which can help increase tear production. They didn’t for me.

True, I no longer wear glasses. But the 20/20 line on the eye chart is blurry. I can make it out only if I squint, and it takes about a minute to read. My doctor views this as proof of the surgery’s success.

“I do see it as a success,” Dr. Belmont told me in a recent interview. She also has said repeatedly that these troubles will pass. “In 18 years of practice, I’ve never had a patient whose symptoms don’t go away. Most patients take three to six months to heal.”

But I see my slow-squint reading as a sign of failure. I thought I’d be able to decipher words in the real world at a glance. My consent form said: “The patient understands that the benefit of the Lasik/P.R.K. procedure is to have an improved uncorrected visual acuity.” I took that to mean that my eyesight would be 20/20. Most doctors, on the other hand, focus on the words “improved uncorrected visual acuity.”

“Not every patient has the potential to see 20/20,” Dr. Belmont told me this month. So, if your eye can see 20/20 with glasses or contacts, the doctors try to replicate that, but there are no guarantees. Dr. Belmont said, “You do the best that you can.”

On its Web site (www.fda.gov/cdrh/lasik/risks.htm), the F.D.A. cautions patients to “Be wary of eye centers that advertise ‘20/20 vision or your money back’ or ‘package deals.’ ” (Still, some refractive eye surgeons’ phone numbers end in 2020.)

Nearly a year later, my problems remain. Still, I’m not mad at my doctor. I’m mad at myself. No one forced me to do it. In our quick-fix culture, we forget that there are risks with any surgery, elective or not.

Between 1998 and 2006 the F.D.A. received 140 negative reports relating to Lasik, including double vision, dry eye and halos, said Mary Long, a spokeswoman. Granted, this is not that many, but Ms. Long said, “If this many people are responding to an adverse event, there are probably others who are not.”

After concluding that too few well-designed studies have examined quality of life after Lasik, the F.D.A. put together a task force in 2006 to design a clinical trial to explore the subject. A pilot study is now under way at the National Eye Institute in Bethesda, Md.

LOOKING back, I do not think my doctor and the other experts I consulted adequately represented the pitfalls. It’s one thing to say that dry eye is “annoying,” as Dr. Belmont did; it’s another to explain how feeling as if your eyes are coated in Vaseline may make every waking moment a chore.

Perhaps it depends on what your definition of success is.

“People say, ‘Well, you don’t wear glasses anymore,’ ” said Barbara Berney, 53, of Rockford, Ill., who had the surgery in 2001 and now reports dry eye, night blindness, dimmed vision, halos and starbursts. “Unless you see what I see, you have no frame of reference.”

Unhappy Lasik patients, some with worse experiences than mine (one man I spoke to needed a corneal transplant), have created about a dozen Web sites. The 12 patients I talked with all reported feeling as I did, gaslighted. They said they kept telling their doctors that they couldn’t see, and that their doctors kept telling them that they could.

A few doctors have told me that they think they can help my dry eye, but I worry they will suggest more surgery, and I haven’t gone to see them. A few optometrists said they could fit me with special lenses to moisten my eyes, and I may have to go that route.

Meanwhile, I walk by eyeglass shops and wish I needed to go inside.

jewels · 03-25-2008, 11:57 AM

Personally, I would probably go with the PRK procedure in lieu of Lasik. The success rate is lower, but there will always be a small risk that I don't think I'm willing to take. Maybe by the time I can afford to do it I'll know for sure.

You can give your friend information and let him know what you think. But then leave it alone. It is his choice and decision. The last thing you want to do is pressure a friend into doing something they don't want to do.

tooth · 03-25-2008, 11:58 AM

They're his eyes, and it's his life. You've presented your case, now leave him alone to make up his own mind.

high_jinx · 03-25-2008, 12:07 PM

thanks for that article cyn... i wanted to read something just like it. my opinion hasn't changed though, especially considering the fact that the technology has improved even more over the last 3 years compared to the previous 7, and even if you multiplied the failures and mishaps by 10, you're still only talking about a lottery ticket's chance.

if someone offered me an oppurtunity where i'd gain the benefit of a lifetime of dramatically improved senses, and all i had to do was get through a lottery without winning it, i'd take it in a second. heck, i'd even consider raffle chances, let alone lottery.

disclaimer: i do understand though that it's not my vision to gamble, and i'm more visiting this topic out of curiosity than being really pushy to my friend.

Redlemon · 03-25-2008, 12:17 PM

Unfortunately, I will never have this done. First is what my opthamologist told me: my retinas are too thin, they would be damaged during the procedure. But, putting that aside, I'm still not comfortable with the procedure. There will not have been a long-term enough study to know what the effect on the eyes will be 20 years out in the future. Perhaps my son would be able to do this. Not me. I have perfect vision with my contacts in, and I'm comfortable with that.

ShaniFaye · 03-25-2008, 12:18 PM

if his eyes are as bad as mine he could have it and still have to wear glasses, just not as thick...thats why I wont have it, I dont see the point

high_jinx · 03-25-2008, 12:29 PM

i think about the little things and the philosophical things too... like, is a beautiful painting or gorgeous girl even more so to you with better vision... or having it be easier to find your keys in a messy room. i'd really love to hear from anyone that's had it done and just how dramatically it has or hasn't improved their life.

Jinn · 03-25-2008, 12:42 PM

I'm not sure I want to give you any positives, simply because it seems like you'd use it to "force" an important medical decision on someone who really ought to make the decision on their own.

I'm a little worried that you think its your duty to convince someone to take lasers to their eyes, even if YOU think it's whats best for them. I'm even more worried, because that means there is someone out there who would do such a thing based solely on a friend's insistence.

abaya · 03-25-2008, 12:42 PM

Once again... has he tried contacts or not?

Ustwo · 03-25-2008, 12:43 PM

My personal view is that there are a million + beta testers of it right now for me.

If I need glasses to function later, their sacrifice will be my gain

high_jinx · 03-25-2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

I'm not sure I want to give you any positives, simply because it seems like you'd use it to "force" an important medical decision on someone who really ought to make the decision on their own.

I'm a little worried that you think its your duty to convince someone to take lasers to their eyes, even if YOU think it's whats best for them. I'm even more worried, because that means there is someone out there who would do such a thing based solely on a friend's insistence.

miss my disclaimer? my friend is neither gullible nor impressionable and i am neither nosy nor pushy. we just enjoy friendly debating subjects like this... it's a fun aspect of our friendship. there's no need to scold me on coercing my friend here or concern yourself that anything you post will be used to manipulate an impressionable person.

Quote:

Once again... has he tried contacts or not?

this, i'm not sure on... my guess is that he either is ineligible or tried them and didn't like them.

Cynthetiq · 03-25-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by high_jinx

this, i'm not sure on... my guess is that he either is ineligible or tried them and didn't like them.

if he's very astigmatic contacts are very expensive. Only recently did they come up with asticmatic disposable contacts, and they cost a considerable amount more than plain contacts. when I wear contacts I cannot see 20/20 because of the astigmatism.

KellyC · 03-25-2008, 01:08 PM

I got LASEK done on Nov. 2006. It's been almost a year and a half now and my eyes are fine. My vision is 20/20, there's no dry eye, or seeing halos or star bursts, or any irritation at all. And yes, I'm glad I did it.

highthief · 03-25-2008, 01:11 PM

Everyone I know who has had it done is happy with the result, myself included - but yeah, at the end of the day it is your friend's choice.

The_Jazz · 03-25-2008, 01:16 PM

high_jinx, you know who else tried to convince his friends to do things they didn't want to do? Hitler.

You'll burn in hell for this thread. After, of course, you're put to death by the State of Texas for being the author.

To actually contribute, I'm very interested to hear what he has to say in response. My vision isn't great (about 80/20) and I have a slight astigmatism to go along with my nearsightedness. I've thought about it a lot over the years and am still waiting to see if there are any long-term effects before I jump in.

Martian · 03-25-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

high_jinx, you know who else tried to convince his friends to do things they didn't want to do? Hitler.

I can't believe you just Godwined a LASIK thread. Have you no shame, sir?

Personally, I wouldn't try to convince some else to do something I won't do. Given that with my contacts my vision is comparable to the OP (between 20/15 and 20/10) I see no reason to get LASIK myself. Therefore, I have nothing to offer in terms of talking someone into it. Perhaps your friend likes his glasses?

The_Jazz · 03-25-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

I can't believe you just Godwined a LASIK thread. Have you no shame, sir?

Please, Martian. We've known each other for how long and you don't already know the answer to that question?

You know who else had no shame?

powerclown · 03-25-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

Everyone I know who has had it done is happy with the result, myself included - but yeah, at the end of the day it is your friend's choice.

Same. I was 20/600, legally blind. Wore contacts for 15 years, had lasik a while ago - in Canada - before it was even licensed in the US. It's a painless procedure (although gruesome to watch), although there is some pain afterwards, but for no more than a day or 2 (you get strong pain meds). I had it done on a friday afternoon and I was back to work monday morning. 15/20 vision, no more dried up contacts/chemicals/hassles, no glasses, no problems whatsoever...its a miracle of modern science.

ktspktsp · 03-25-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by high_jinx

he, however is the type of guy that won't stand by the edge of a cliff with a gorgeous view at the end of a hike... not because he's afraid of heights, but because he's worried an earthquake will happen right that second...

Glad to see I'm not the only one who has thought of this before

(although, I am additionally scared of heights a bit)

Regarding the topic... If your friend doesn't want to do it then so be it. Living with glasses is not that big of a deal, and Lasik is not risk free.

Chilly McFreeze · 03-29-2008, 03:10 PM

I agree, living with glasses really isn't that bad. I can (and do) wear contact lenses, and with them my sight is more or less perfect, but most days I can't be bothered with them - I only wear them when I go out for a drink with my friends or on a date with my girlfriend. For work and just lazing round the house I wear my glasses, and most of the time I forget I'm even wearing them, so for me no amount of cajoling could persuade me to get Lasik - that's some scary shit, and the risks (however small) don't justify the benefits. I suspect your friend feels the same as me - I can't imagine much worse than messing up my sight, and wearing glasses just isn't enough of an inconvenience for me to risk it!

03-25-2008, 11:27 AM	#1 (permalink)
high_jinx Psycho Location: venice beach, ca	I want to convince a friend to get lasik.... I happen to be blessed with 13/20 vision and I have a horribly near-sighted friend that wears thick glasses. i've been trying to convince him to go for laser surgery. my argument is that his life will be better with that good of sight fused to his head compared to his yearly-thickening glasses between the extra peripheral vision granted by the glasses being on your eye and without the worries of glasses (scratches, bent frames, fog, etc...) he, however is the type of guy that won't stand by the edge of a cliff with a gorgeous view at the end of a hike... not because he's afraid of heights, but because he's worried an earthquake will happen right that second... in other words, he's so hung up on the .00001% fail rate that he's not willing to risk it for the greater benefit. first off, i'd like to hear from people about whether i should even be meddling with something personal like this to my friend, even though i'm doing it with the goal of improving his life. second, i'd like to hear any arguments you might have that might help sway him toward making the leap. thanks. __________________ -my phobia drowned while i was gettin down.

03-25-2008, 11:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Since its a voluntary procedure, that does have risk even if that risk isn't very great, he should really be the one to make up his mind on it on his own. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

03-25-2008, 11:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Is he unable to try contacts?... Otherwise, I'm also hung up on the fail rate of Lasik, so I'll just wait for some other people to reply to this thread and hopefully encourage me. But personally, I am fairly satisfied with contacts. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

03-25-2008, 11:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	Personally, I would probably go with the PRK procedure in lieu of Lasik. The success rate is lower, but there will always be a small risk that I don't think I'm willing to take. Maybe by the time I can afford to do it I'll know for sure. You can give your friend information and let him know what you think. But then leave it alone. It is his choice and decision. The last thing you want to do is pressure a friend into doing something they don't want to do. __________________ We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain

03-25-2008, 12:07 PM	#7 (permalink)
high_jinx Psycho Location: venice beach, ca	thanks for that article cyn... i wanted to read something just like it. my opinion hasn't changed though, especially considering the fact that the technology has improved even more over the last 3 years compared to the previous 7, and even if you multiplied the failures and mishaps by 10, you're still only talking about a lottery ticket's chance. if someone offered me an oppurtunity where i'd gain the benefit of a lifetime of dramatically improved senses, and all i had to do was get through a lottery without winning it, i'd take it in a second. heck, i'd even consider raffle chances, let alone lottery. disclaimer: i do understand though that it's not my vision to gamble, and i'm more visiting this topic out of curiosity than being really pushy to my friend. __________________ -my phobia drowned while i was gettin down.

03-25-2008, 11:58 AM	#6 (permalink)
tooth Addict	They're his eyes, and it's his life. You've presented your case, now leave him alone to make up his own mind.

03-25-2008, 12:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	Unfortunately, I will never have this done. First is what my opthamologist told me: my retinas are too thin, they would be damaged during the procedure. But, putting that aside, I'm still not comfortable with the procedure. There will not have been a long-term enough study to know what the effect on the eyes will be 20 years out in the future. Perhaps my son would be able to do this. Not me. I have perfect vision with my contacts in, and I'm comfortable with that. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

03-25-2008, 12:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	if his eyes are as bad as mine he could have it and still have to wear glasses, just not as thick...thats why I wont have it, I dont see the point __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

03-25-2008, 12:29 PM	#10 (permalink)
high_jinx Psycho Location: venice beach, ca	i think about the little things and the philosophical things too... like, is a beautiful painting or gorgeous girl even more so to you with better vision... or having it be easier to find your keys in a messy room. i'd really love to hear from anyone that's had it done and just how dramatically it has or hasn't improved their life. __________________ -my phobia drowned while i was gettin down.

03-25-2008, 12:42 PM	#11 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	I'm not sure I want to give you any positives, simply because it seems like you'd use it to "force" an important medical decision on someone who really ought to make the decision on their own. I'm a little worried that you think its your duty to convince someone to take lasers to their eyes, even if YOU think it's whats best for them. I'm even more worried, because that means there is someone out there who would do such a thing based solely on a friend's insistence. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

03-25-2008, 12:42 PM	#12 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Once again... has he tried contacts or not? __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

03-25-2008, 12:43 PM	#13 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	My personal view is that there are a million + beta testers of it right now for me. If I need glasses to function later, their sacrifice will be my gain __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

03-25-2008, 01:08 PM	#16 (permalink)
KellyC Comment or else!! Location: Home sweet home	I got LASEK done on Nov. 2006. It's been almost a year and a half now and my eyes are fine. My vision is 20/20, there's no dry eye, or seeing halos or star bursts, or any irritation at all. And yes, I'm glad I did it. __________________ Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe? Me: Shit happens.

03-25-2008, 01:11 PM	#17 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Everyone I know who has had it done is happy with the result, myself included - but yeah, at the end of the day it is your friend's choice. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

03-25-2008, 01:16 PM	#18 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	high_jinx, you know who else tried to convince his friends to do things they didn't want to do? Hitler. You'll burn in hell for this thread. After, of course, you're put to death by the State of Texas for being the author. To actually contribute, I'm very interested to hear what he has to say in response. My vision isn't great (about 80/20) and I have a slight astigmatism to go along with my nearsightedness. I've thought about it a lot over the years and am still waiting to see if there are any long-term effects before I jump in. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

03-29-2008, 03:10 PM	#23 (permalink)
Chilly McFreeze Insane Location: England	I agree, living with glasses really isn't that bad. I can (and do) wear contact lenses, and with them my sight is more or less perfect, but most days I can't be bothered with them - I only wear them when I go out for a drink with my friends or on a date with my girlfriend. For work and just lazing round the house I wear my glasses, and most of the time I forget I'm even wearing them, so for me no amount of cajoling could persuade me to get Lasik - that's some scary shit, and the risks (however small) don't justify the benefits. I suspect your friend feels the same as me - I can't imagine much worse than messing up my sight, and wearing glasses just isn't enough of an inconvenience for me to risk it!