License plate fraud - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

abaya · 02-07-2008, 09:08 AM

So, how many of you have sold your own car to a private buyer before? And when you sold the car, did you remove the plates yourself, or leave them on?

If you were like me and did not remove them, you might find yourself in trouble down the road. I had never sold a car by myself before, and was in a rush to move for Iceland a few days after that. No one mentioned anything about removing the old plates; just transferring the title, getting new plates, and sending a seller's report back to my home state (original plates are from there). Did all that, thought I was in the clear.

Then I get a ticket in the mail (at my mom's house in Seattle) for a parking ticket in our old town in Pennsylvania. In DECEMBER 2007... 10 months after I sold the damn car to some college chick who didn't even realize it was a manual until she bought the thing. Anyway, needless to say, apparently she's been driving around on MY OLD PLATES for at least 10 months... god knows what else she's been doing with the car. I should be grateful that I caught it this way, instead of finding out she's robbed a bank with those plates on it.

The weird thing is, I went WITH her to the PA State DMV to have the title transferred... and they handed her the new plates right then and there, and we got things all squared away (I thought). So nothing really makes sense... unless she thought since the tabs still said FEB 08, that she could get away with driving it until now?? Did she not know that if you are caught driving a car (during a routine traffic stop) with plates from a registered-as-sold car (which mine was, in WA state), that you face severe penalties/fines? It's actually a misdemeanor, which I learned during my day-long sorting out of this situation and calling various states' DMV's and police departments.

I see the light at the end of this tunnel, since the car was officially out of my name when she got the ticket... but I just wanted to remind everyone to REMOVE YOUR EFFING PLATES when you sell a car to a private buyer! (And don't toss them in the trash, either... because people can pick them up and keep using them, for all kinds of dastardly deeds.)

Anyone else had this problem? Or did you all know this ahead of time, and I missed the memo...

ShaniFaye · 02-07-2008, 09:29 AM

In georgia its the law...your plate travels with you not the vehicle. I've now had my RATT license plate thru 4 vehicles (and it doesnt matter that its a vanity plate....it would have still gone with me if it had been ASL 1234 kind of plate)

abaya · 02-07-2008, 09:42 AM

Right, I understand that the plate is attached to you, when you own the car. But when the vehicle is sold, the title is transferred, a seller's report is submitted, and new plates are issued (and the old plates were from a state on the other side of the country)... it just seems like common sense to destroy the old plates, not keep using them, you know?

Of course, maybe it's common sense to remove the old plates when selling the car, but in WA we never did that (or maybe my dad just taught me wrong). In any case, just checking to see what kind of common sense is going on here.

ShaniFaye · 02-07-2008, 09:50 AM

I dont know how it is in other states, I just know here when you sell or trade in your car, the plate comes off and stays in your possession, whether you reuse it on your next vehicle or not only the title is transferred, not the tag

tooth · 02-07-2008, 10:07 AM

They are your plates. You are responsible for them, period.

Lesson learned, eh?

Cynthetiq · 02-07-2008, 10:07 AM

In CA/NY/NJ I've removed the plates and kept them when I sold the car.

Somewhere I have the vanity plate that has my name and my sister's name from my dad's 280Z

abaya · 02-07-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooth

They are your plates. You are responsible for them, period.

Lesson learned, eh?

Well, definitely lesson learned, no question there. I'm just trying to figure out why no one in the DoL/DMV of two states didn't mention this to me, for whatever reasons... and that it wasn't mentioned on any of the websites I scanned while looking for the proper way to get this sale taken care of. I mean, where did you all first learn that you are supposed to remove them? I actually thought the plates belonged to the issuing state itself, not the owner... so there's one angle of my misinformation.

From what the DMV in PA said when I called today, it happens all the time, so I guess it's a common mistake. Personally, if I had been the one buying a used car with plates from a different state, I imagine I would have just removed them promptly, put the new ones on immediately, and then stored the old ones away or recycled them (which is apparently what my dad does when he buys/sells used cars--says it's pretty common in WA to do that). But I guess not everyone does that. Sigh.

Cynthetiq · 02-07-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Well, definitely lesson learned, no question there. I'm just trying to figure out why no one in the DoL/DMV of two states didn't mention this to me, for whatever reasons... and that it wasn't mentioned on any of the websites I scanned while looking for the proper way to get this sale taken care of. I mean, where did you all first learn that you are supposed to remove them? I actually thought the plates belonged to the issuing state itself, not the owner... so there's one angle of my misinformation.

From what the DMV in PA said when I called today, it happens all the time, so I guess it's a common mistake. Personally, if I had been the one buying a used car with plates from a different state, I imagine I would have just removed them promptly, put the new ones on immediately, and then stored the old ones away or recycled them (which is apparently what my dad does when he buys/sells used cars--says it's pretty common in WA to do that). But I guess not everyone does that. Sigh.

passed onto me via family and friends, no law told to me.

Willravel · 02-07-2008, 10:59 AM

Did I miss the memo, too? I just did the pink slip thing, transferred title and went on my merry way.

ShaniFaye · 02-07-2008, 11:01 AM

Im pretty sure it varies by state....georgia hasnt always been the way it is now, used to the license plate went with the vehicle. Our law changed in 1997

For Immediate Release.... June 11, 1997

DOR ISSUES MOTOR VEHICLE 'Q & A'

ATLANTA--Effective May 1, an important change in Georgia's motor vehicle laws stipulates that all license plates ("tags") are now to remain with the original owner upon sale or transfer of a vehicle. Previously in Georgia, only 'special' license plates (e.g., Olympic, College, Prestige, Veterans tags) were transferable from one vehicle to another vehicle an owner purchased or acquired. But as of May 1, Georgia law now mandates that ALL motor vehicle tags remain with the original tag owner for use on any subsequent vehicle they may own -- as long as any subsequent vehicle requires the same tag classification and fee as the previously owned vehicle.

Willravel · 02-07-2008, 11:03 AM

I googled it and found about 6,000 pages of kids complaining about having to put license plates on the front bumper of their rice rockets. I'm still in the dark on this.

Anyone have a link or further info?

ShaniFaye · 02-07-2008, 11:13 AM

here you go Will...CA doesnt do it the same way GA does, it stays with the car unless its a special plate

What do I do with the license plate?

Most vehicles have sequentially issued "standard" license plates that remain with the vehicle when ownership is transferred. If the license plate is a special interest or personalized license plate, you must decide if you want to retain the plate for use on another vehicle, or release your interest in the plate. Complete a Special Interest License Plate Application (REG 17) or a Special License Plate Application (REG 17A) indicating your retention or release of the special plate and give the form to the buyer.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures...cts/ffvr32.htm

Willravel · 02-07-2008, 11:15 AM

TY, Shani! You're the bestest!

abaya · 02-07-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

I googled it and found about 6,000 pages of kids complaining about having to put license plates on the front bumper of their rice rockets. I'm still in the dark on this.

Anyone have a link or further info?

I just Googled as well, outside of WA state, and think this comes down to a question of which states are involved. For example, in NY and Iowa, you are required to surrender your plates to the DMV if you have not transferred it to another vehicle. In that case, I was partly right with my misinformation, since the state "owns" those plates and can request that they be surrendered.

Will, do you know the status of the plates you gave up, on the car that you sold? Might be worth calling your state's DMV and making sure all is in order...

Of course, none of this is helpful to me, after the fact... leave it to me to sell a car licensed in one state, in a state on the other side of the country.

jewels · 02-07-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Of course, none of this is helpful to me, after the fact... leave it to me to sell a car licensed in one state, in a state on the other side of the country.

Yes, but think of it this way. You may have helped save a life. I mean a lot of headaches for someone who hadn't checked into the laws in their state.

It's all good, right?

Willravel · 02-07-2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Will, do you know the status of the plates you gave up, on the car that you sold? Might be worth calling your state's DMV and making sure all is in order...

I know the guy who has the BMW, and you're right it may be better to err on the side of caution.

allaboutmusic · 02-07-2008, 12:41 PM

This is interesting - here in the UK, the plates are assigned to the car, and follow it along with the vehicle unless specifically transferred.

abaya · 02-08-2008, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewels443

Yes, but think of it this way. You may have helped save a life. I mean a lot of headaches for someone who hadn't checked into the laws in their state.

It's all good, right?

Yeah, well I would have appreciated the buyer saving me the headache of all this (because it's a serious headache... you wouldn't believe how much paperwork/notarization/other crap I have to do as a result) by using her brain to NOT drive around PA with WA plates for 10 months... but oh well. I should be glad they caught her early, before this got any worse.

UPDATE: Through stalked the buyer's name from the record I have (found her e-mail via a university website), I got in touch with her... apparently she "accidentally" left the front plate on (WA), though she technically did replace the back one when she was supposed to (PA). This continued for 10 months until her mother noticed, and said she should remove the WA one!

Anyway, all's well that ends well... I got the proof I needed from the AAA office that transferred the title, and as soon as the District Court received those documents, they said two things: 1) I'm in the clear, and 2) They've been looking for this girl for a long time, because she has a huge stack of unpaid parking tickets in that particular town (thank god it was only once that the ticket cop wrote down the front plate instead of the back one!).

So she's gonna FRY, big time. What are the consequences for stacks of unpaid tickets, anyway?? Ahhhhh, I love karma.

allaboutmusic · 02-08-2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

So she's gonna FRY, big time. What are the consequences for stacks of unpaid tickets, anyway?? Ahhhhh, I love karma.

They execute people for unpaid PARKING TICKETS over there?! Talk about a harsh system!!

snowy · 02-08-2008, 02:15 PM

Yeah, Washington does not require that the seller take the plates, because the plates typically go with the car, not the driver. We've sold a couple of cars in Washington. It's the same way in Oregon--I've sold a car here and had the title of my current car (a WA vehicle) transferred to me (now it's an Oregon vehicle).

See, for me, it was the opposite...I'm the one with all the parking tickets. Whoops. But it was a Washington car being sold in Oregon, so I'm fairly sure the girl followed up with getting the plates changed.

Kaimi · 02-08-2008, 04:35 PM

I had something similar happen. I had sold my car to a friend in need, it was not in the best of condition and I think I made some $50 on the deal. Apparently she drove the car 100+ miles out of the way and it died(go figure .. as I say it was not in the best shape) She left it there and the tickets piled up, she had never gone to the trouble of getting the title transferred at the DMV. So.. to make a long story short, the car got towed yet the tickets remained and were sent to me. I went to the DMV and explained the situation and had what is called a Forced Title Transfer done. She would still have been required to actually pay the required fees but what it did was remove the responsibility of the tickets and any other that accumulated after from me.

abaya · 02-08-2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

Yeah, Washington does not require that the seller take the plates, because the plates typically go with the car, not the driver.

Ahhhh, thank you Snowy. I feel semi-vindicated.

It was just weird in particular that my dad never told me about this, because he's extremely knowledgeable about all things car related, and I know he would have told me if it was necessary. But he's also a lifelong WA state resident... and I had no inkling that license plate rules across states would be so different.

So yes, in the future, when selling cars in different states... ASK AROUND for what to do about the plates when transferring the title!!

snowy · 02-08-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Ahhhh, thank you Snowy. I feel semi-vindicated.

It was just weird in particular that my dad never told me about this, because he's extremely knowledgeable about all things car related, and I know he would have told me if it was necessary. But he's also a lifelong WA state resident... and I had no inkling that license plate rules across states would be so different.

So yes, in the future, when selling cars in different states... ASK AROUND for what to do about the plates when transferring the title!!

That's one of the downsides of federalism...but I prefer to think about the upsides.

abaya · 02-09-2008, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

That's one of the downsides of federalism...but I prefer to think about the upsides.

Well, what makes it weird is that license plates are on a national database, right? So one would think they would standardize the laws on whether or not a plate follows the car or the person... because clearly, the current setup must lead to plenty of confusion when trying to actually catch someone on the lam. (E.g. in WA they would have never given me those parking tickets, because I completed the seller's report on time, and that would have popped up on any record in the state... but in PA apparently that fact did not pop up in any step of giving "me" the ticket or sending it all the way back to WA state). Anyway, just seems like a highly inefficient system, especially if our gov't is supposed to be all about national security.

ktspktsp · 02-09-2008, 05:31 AM

I just want to emphasize that this girl drove a car, for 10 months, that had a WA license plate on the front and a PA license plate in the back.

That is beyond stupid.

MSD · 02-10-2008, 07:18 PM

Here if you don't turn in the plates you still have to pay property tax on the car. Even though we took them off when we donated my old car, we still got the summons to court when someone stole it and parked it illegally in Philadelphia because it was registered to us last.

abaya · 02-18-2008, 04:34 AM

Just a little update on this, at least for WA residents (no wonder I was so confused, given how many possibilities there are for old license plates)... taken from today's Seattle Times:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleTimes

A good answer may not always be the best answer. In an item in last Monday's column, state Department of Licensing spokesman Brad Benfield answered a reader's inquiry about discarding old vehicle-license plates by saying old plates can simply be tossed in the trash without worry or legal liability because once new license plates are assigned to a vehicle, state records are changed and the old plates become obsolete.

Maybe so. But readers responded during the week with some observations:

• One reader said she tossed her old plates into the garbage. Three months later, she received a parking ticket in the mail. "Sure, it was easy enough to remedy the situation [with a phone call]," she said, "but I was advised, after the fact, that I should have destroyed the plates before disposing of them."

• A caller said he was advised two weeks ago by a contracted licensing agency to bend his old plates in half before tossing them in a recycling bin.

• Cheryl Fontaine of Lake Stevens said she mailed her old plates to the governor with a letter expressing her "extreme displeasure" at having to replace perfectly good plates. "Not only is this ... a financial hardship on me," she said, "it dumps more garbage in landfills that does not need to be there."

So, here's the latest word: King County's Solid Waste Division encourages recycling of anything that can be recycled, including aluminum, says division spokeswoman Sharon Aller. But the state Department of Licensing has regulations about what to do with old license plates. They can be mailed to the department in Olympia, or dropped off at any local vehicle-licensing office to be recycled.

It is not necessary to bend them before you throw them away, says department spokeswoman Selena Davis. But, she noted, old plates should first be invalidated, if you're going to toss them yourself, by removing the month and year tabs.

02-07-2008, 09:08 AM	#1 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	License plate fraud So, how many of you have sold your own car to a private buyer before? And when you sold the car, did you remove the plates yourself, or leave them on? If you were like me and did not remove them, you might find yourself in trouble down the road. I had never sold a car by myself before, and was in a rush to move for Iceland a few days after that. No one mentioned anything about removing the old plates; just transferring the title, getting new plates, and sending a seller's report back to my home state (original plates are from there). Did all that, thought I was in the clear. Then I get a ticket in the mail (at my mom's house in Seattle) for a parking ticket in our old town in Pennsylvania. In DECEMBER 2007... 10 months after I sold the damn car to some college chick who didn't even realize it was a manual until she bought the thing. Anyway, needless to say, apparently she's been driving around on MY OLD PLATES for at least 10 months... god knows what else she's been doing with the car. I should be grateful that I caught it this way, instead of finding out she's robbed a bank with those plates on it. The weird thing is, I went WITH her to the PA State DMV to have the title transferred... and they handed her the new plates right then and there, and we got things all squared away (I thought). So nothing really makes sense... unless she thought since the tabs still said FEB 08, that she could get away with driving it until now?? Did she not know that if you are caught driving a car (during a routine traffic stop) with plates from a registered-as-sold car (which mine was, in WA state), that you face severe penalties/fines? It's actually a misdemeanor, which I learned during my day-long sorting out of this situation and calling various states' DMV's and police departments. I see the light at the end of this tunnel, since the car was officially out of my name when she got the ticket... but I just wanted to remind everyone to REMOVE YOUR EFFING PLATES when you sell a car to a private buyer! (And don't toss them in the trash, either... because people can pick them up and keep using them, for all kinds of dastardly deeds.) Anyone else had this problem? Or did you all know this ahead of time, and I missed the memo... __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

02-07-2008, 09:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	In georgia its the law...your plate travels with you not the vehicle. I've now had my RATT license plate thru 4 vehicles (and it doesnt matter that its a vanity plate....it would have still gone with me if it had been ASL 1234 kind of plate) __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

02-07-2008, 09:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Right, I understand that the plate is attached to you, when you own the car. But when the vehicle is sold, the title is transferred, a seller's report is submitted, and new plates are issued (and the old plates were from a state on the other side of the country)... it just seems like common sense to destroy the old plates, not keep using them, you know? Of course, maybe it's common sense to remove the old plates when selling the car, but in WA we never did that (or maybe my dad just taught me wrong). In any case, just checking to see what kind of common sense is going on here. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran Last edited by abaya; 02-07-2008 at 09:44 AM..

02-07-2008, 09:50 AM	#4 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	I dont know how it is in other states, I just know here when you sell or trade in your car, the plate comes off and stays in your possession, whether you reuse it on your next vehicle or not only the title is transferred, not the tag __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

02-07-2008, 10:07 AM	#6 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	In CA/NY/NJ I've removed the plates and kept them when I sold the car. Somewhere I have the vanity plate that has my name and my sister's name from my dad's 280Z __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

02-07-2008, 10:07 AM	#5 (permalink)
tooth Addict	They are your plates. You are responsible for them, period. Lesson learned, eh?

02-07-2008, 10:59 AM	#9 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Did I miss the memo, too? I just did the pink slip thing, transferred title and went on my merry way.

02-07-2008, 11:01 AM	#10 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	Im pretty sure it varies by state....georgia hasnt always been the way it is now, used to the license plate went with the vehicle. Our law changed in 1997 For Immediate Release.... June 11, 1997 DOR ISSUES MOTOR VEHICLE 'Q & A' ATLANTA--Effective May 1, an important change in Georgia's motor vehicle laws stipulates that all license plates ("tags") are now to remain with the original owner upon sale or transfer of a vehicle. Previously in Georgia, only 'special' license plates (e.g., Olympic, College, Prestige, Veterans tags) were transferable from one vehicle to another vehicle an owner purchased or acquired. But as of May 1, Georgia law now mandates that ALL motor vehicle tags remain with the original tag owner for use on any subsequent vehicle they may own -- as long as any subsequent vehicle requires the same tag classification and fee as the previously owned vehicle. __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

02-07-2008, 11:03 AM	#11 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I googled it and found about 6,000 pages of kids complaining about having to put license plates on the front bumper of their rice rockets. I'm still in the dark on this. Anyone have a link or further info?

02-07-2008, 11:13 AM	#12 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	here you go Will...CA doesnt do it the same way GA does, it stays with the car unless its a special plate What do I do with the license plate? Most vehicles have sequentially issued "standard" license plates that remain with the vehicle when ownership is transferred. If the license plate is a special interest or personalized license plate, you must decide if you want to retain the plate for use on another vehicle, or release your interest in the plate. Complete a Special Interest License Plate Application (REG 17) or a Special License Plate Application (REG 17A) indicating your retention or release of the special plate and give the form to the buyer. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures...cts/ffvr32.htm __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

02-07-2008, 11:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	TY, Shani! You're the bestest!

02-07-2008, 12:41 PM	#17 (permalink)
allaboutmusic Aurally Fixated	This is interesting - here in the UK, the plates are assigned to the car, and follow it along with the vehicle unless specifically transferred.

02-08-2008, 02:15 PM	#20 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Yeah, Washington does not require that the seller take the plates, because the plates typically go with the car, not the driver. We've sold a couple of cars in Washington. It's the same way in Oregon--I've sold a car here and had the title of my current car (a WA vehicle) transferred to me (now it's an Oregon vehicle). See, for me, it was the opposite...I'm the one with all the parking tickets. Whoops. But it was a Washington car being sold in Oregon, so I'm fairly sure the girl followed up with getting the plates changed. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

02-08-2008, 04:35 PM	#21 (permalink)
Kaimi Crazy	I had something similar happen. I had sold my car to a friend in need, it was not in the best of condition and I think I made some $50 on the deal. Apparently she drove the car 100+ miles out of the way and it died(go figure .. as I say it was not in the best shape) She left it there and the tickets piled up, she had never gone to the trouble of getting the title transferred at the DMV. So.. to make a long story short, the car got towed yet the tickets remained and were sent to me. I went to the DMV and explained the situation and had what is called a Forced Title Transfer done. She would still have been required to actually pay the required fees but what it did was remove the responsibility of the tickets and any other that accumulated after from me.

02-09-2008, 05:31 AM	#25 (permalink)
ktspktsp Addict Location: Reykjavik, Iceland	I just want to emphasize that this girl drove a car, for 10 months, that had a WA license plate on the front and a PA license plate in the back. That is beyond stupid.

02-10-2008, 07:18 PM	#26 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Here if you don't turn in the plates you still have to pay property tax on the car. Even though we took them off when we donated my old car, we still got the summons to court when someone stole it and parked it illegally in Philadelphia because it was registered to us last.