Your daughter tells you she's pregnant
 

All the threads lately about unwanted pregnancy, parenting, custody and what's morally right got me to thinking. I wonder if this question wouldn't help all of us to see these issues a little differently. I'm also curious if those that are parents now would see it differently than those that don't plan on children for some time.

Whether you are or not: Let's say you're a happily married parent of at least one daughter. Shortly after she begins her senior year in high school (17ish?), she comes home and tells you she's pregnant.

You've already done all the right things. You taught her to wait for love. Taught her about birth control. Been good, loving parents.

What would you do? Have her quit school and get a job and raise the child? Talk to the boy's parents? Take her for an abortion? Tell her to have the baby, you'll raise it. Or tell her she needs to decide on her future?

Writing this, I'm struggling with my own response. My 24-year old, thankfully, is not pregnant and although she's with a guy and on a good career path, of no concern in this regard. I have two teen girls at home and although they still think penises are gross (thank Gawd!) I know this will change and know that no matter what they're taught, they will make some unwise decisions in their lifetime and a parent should always be armed. :D

I tend to think that I'd try to make a decision with her. Talk it out. Hear her feelings and fears, and what she thinks would be right for her. Let her know that I will be there for emotional support whether she opted to have the baby or not, but if she intended to stay in my home with a baby the responsibility and financial burden would be between her and the father.

I'm not sure if that's a weak response, but I'm not totally sure I've weighed everything. I'd be really interested to hear what you guys would do in this scenario.

Well, my daughter is only 6 so it's rather hard for me to speculate. It would really depend on HER personality. I can sit here and spout lofty ideals all day long but in the end it really doesn't do any good.

Is she promiscuous? Is she an other-wise non-promiscuous kid who had an accident? Is she the kind of kid who maybe did this out of spite? It's been known to happen. These are all factors in the way I would deal with this situation; there are myriad other factors as well.

I could only hope to help her make a decision that is best for her based on the kind of person she is. I would hope that I had done a good enough job raising her that she understands the consequences and is able to assume some amount of personal responsibility. I would hope that she is attracted to men who have at least equal understanding of those consequences and responsibility. Understanding and accepting responsibility is certainly not a preventative--especially when hormones are involved. I remember those days all too well.

The point is, there is rarely--if ever--a single answer that will fit all scenarios. There's no way to predict the future; there's no way to tell what a child will be like when he or she grows up. You can only guide them along a path that will hopefully be a good one. So there's no way to tell how you can or should or even will react in this situation.

"Honey I love you but you did this before you were ready. I'm very disappointed in you.", would be the only thing I'd say that was negative to her. From there on I'd do everything in my power to make sure that my daughter and grandchild were cared for. Assuming she was still in school, I'd ask that she go to school part time and we'd make arrangements about baby-sitting (I'd LOVE to babysit my grandchild).

The unlucky young man who knocked up daddy's little girl would be a slightly different story. I'd speak to him with his parents, and it would not be a comfortable discussion. He will be monitored very closely by me personally to make sure that he gets perfect grades AND is going to go to college full time and get a part time job. Even if he somehow lives up to my demands, it'd take years before he earned my trust.

If he tries to leave her, there will be problems.

So, just because he's the guy he's going to get the brunt of your displeasure? Sounds like a double-standard to me; and you'll be setting up a horrible situation for the new parents. Unless he forced her to have sex unprotected then he didn't "knock up daddy's little girl"--they did it together and thus should be treated equally.

It might be a better situation if HE DOES leave her ... sometimes two people should just not be together even AFTER they have kids.

Life is not black and white.

I'd like to see what kinda solution a sorta licensed troubleshooter would invoke.

I am 21, not thinking about a family, so not even thinking about kids and someone higher up ought to prevent me from ever having children. Given the descriptions my father told me of his childhood, the things I heard about my older brother, how my childhood "experiments" were jacked-up versions of his, my lil' bundles of hell would probably set the Earth on fire from their sandbox with stolen parts and tools from my garage.

I have to agree with Will, though. _[Insert Deity]_ forbid I have daughter, and she became pregnant as a teen, I'd be disappointed, and I'd let her know. After that I would do everything to see that she makes decisions she can live with, and I wouldn't mind help raising a grandchild, having already survived what was to be Armageddon with her childhood, I could then watch this lil' bundle of hell with diapers assemble the for-sure Doomsday device in his/her sandbox.

Not so sure about the boy... Definitely disappointed with him... Have a talk with the parents too [see where we went wrong].

I'd give her the option of either (a) getting an abortion or (b) moving out.

The way I see it, she'll be thanking me in two years.

Because in two years:

(a) She aborted a bunch of cells she didn't really want from a guy she won't like in two years, went on to college and is living a normal, college girl's life, dating normally.

or

(b) She is two years down the road, having kept a baby she didn't want with a guy she didn't like, forced into minimum-wage slave labor hell of a life so she can support the crying eat n' poop machine. She'd commit suicide if she didn't have a kid to take care of.

Why would you ever choose (b)? Because some idiot thinks a bunch of cells is worth saving? I think not. If she wants to choose (b) because she thinks by some deviation of logic that this fertilized clump of suck is actually a 'human life', then there's no way I'm going to financially support another idiot. The US already has enough. Besides, I wouldn't raise a child to be so stupid. Choice (a) should be pretty obvious to her by the time she's 17.

You understand that "knock up daddy's little girl" means that he got my daughter pregnant, right? And as such, that's exactly what he did in the scenario in the OP?

And no, I'm not going to treat them equally. It's my prerogative to be overprotective of the young woman who I have raised since she was an infant. They will both be going to school and they will both have a stern talking to. The only difference is that SHE WILL BE PREGNANT. Welcome to a biologically implemented double standard that everyone keeps telling me about in the other thread. She's going to have morning sickness, mood swings due to hormonal imbalances, she'll inflate and suddenly find herself a lot heavier, etc. He won't. In other words, for the first 9 months, she won't need me riding her other than to make sure she's safe, prepared, and still going to school. The young man, on the other hand, is not pregnant. This is when I have to make sure that he will be able to provide for her. This means that he busts his ass in school, gets plenty of "responsibility" themed talks from me, and finds a job.
That's true, but it's not as easy as "he's not up to the job" so he can just leave. He'll end up under my thumb one way or another because that's just how I operate. This is the one area in life when Willravel stops being fair or whatever.

If you fuck my daughter, get her pregnant, and try to leave, expect me to do something about it. You WILL pay child support, which means you WILL have a job. You WILL be in the child's life. If you're not mature enough for that, then you will be doing a lot of maturing because I said so.

Outside of this specific scenario, I am a pretty calm, kind, fair guy, but this is a serious situation and I won't be walking on eggshells.

Things might be nice in your fantasy world where you can actually control another person, but in the real world, this is harassment at the very least.

He has parents too, and I don't think they'd be too pleased with you telling their spawn what to do or not to do. Furthermore, you can't force another individual to do what you want in the way you seem to imply without breaking many laws. I'd file a restraining order on you as soon as I turned 18, or have my parents do it in my stead. I'd also tell you to take a flying leap off a cliff, because if you talked to me again after that point the police would be on the way.

The ONLY thing that can be forced upon this kid is child support, and only a COURT OF LAW can enforce such a thing. Luckily for him, you being "mad" or whatever you want to call it actually translates to diddly squat in terms of reality.

To anyone saying that they would be disappointed in their daughter or the boy--think really hard about this for a moment: are you disappointed with the person or the situation?

To be disappointed in a person implies that their actions were caused by a certain level of maliciousness (ie. "you know better but you did it anyway"). But we all know that there is no form of birth control that is 100% effective (besides surgical means).

Teenagers are going to have sex ... we all know it. There is no stopping it. Birth control fails.

I'm familiar with what the phrase "knocked up" means. In this (hopefully) hypothetical situation he didn't GET your daughter pregnant. Unless he forced her, they did it together. Period (or lack thereof).

Both. My safe sex practices are the stuff of legend. It's reasonable, thus, to presume that I would be getting the pill with my daughter when she was 16-17 and teaching her all about the many forms of birth control and contraceptives, because I'm aware that like her old man she may very well be sexually active when she's young. She will be armed with knowledge at a young age. One would hope that this would make the unexpected pregnancy unlikely, but to be honest there are times when young people are caught up in the moment and forget to do what they should be doing. They behave in an irresponsible manner. As such, I'm sure I'd have every right to be disappointed with my daughter (and obviously the boy, though he may not have had such vigilant parents). I can be disappointed in her for letting herself forget all that I and her mother had carefully taught her.
The failure rates of compound birth control are nearly astronomical. If you combine pill, condom, and spermicide, your chances of getting pregnant drop off to an area close to 1/60,000 (according to my doctor). Those are the same odds that I've gambled with since I was 13, and I've never gotten someone pregnant that I didn't intend.
He put his penis in my daughter's vagina and ejaculated, releasing sperm that fertilized her egg. He knocked her up. It has nothing to do with "GET"ting someone pregnant, and I'm not even sure what that means.

She's moving out and getting a job. Oh... And the guy is going to marry her or I'll shoot him. Simple :)

Statistics say she's likely to make the same mistake again and have another abortion, FYI.

Neither I nor my spawn have ever or will ever fall into the statistical cess pool of mediocre idiots known as "the majority of the World."

What statistics, by the way? Care to provide a source?

Last I saw it was 48%, but 47% is close enough.

Still, bear in mind that the statistic I liked above is from a pro-life website. I'm not 100% sure about the number's reliability.

But that is the word you used:

(Bold and caps are mine).

You consistently ignore the fact that it takes two. It doesn't matter how much you prepare your daughter; it doesn't matter how much you teach her. The fact is, unless you know with absolute certainty that she GOT pregnant on purpose ... you should NOT be disappointed with HER. Be disappointed with the situation ... but not the person.

You can quote statistics all you want, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen--even to you or your daughter. Just because you aren't a statistic (in this matter) doesn't mean that your daughter will be so lucky.

1/60,000 means that statistically she either hit the jackpot or (more likely) she didn't do what she was supposed to. I have every right to be disappointed if my daughters acts in an irresponsible manner.
1/60,000. You're more likely to be killed by a tsunami or a bee sting. It's literally actually close to the odds of being struck by lightning and dying as a result.

It's not even close to being likely. What is infinitely more likely is that they had sex without protection.

Like that nuclear missile don't-launch line used at silos everywhere during the Cold War:

"Abort - abort - abort!"

Jinn sometimes I forget how young you are, and then you remind me.

Better than being infantile? I can pee farther than you...

If you care to elaborate on how my youth is showing I'd be pleased to hear.

I usually take it as "I disagree with you, but I don't feel like saying why".

Yeah, ya POO-POO FACE!

Thank you for acknowledging this will. I thought it was suspect myself, so I did a bit of searching.

It appears they removed part of the sentence for effect. It changes the meaning considerably, in my opinion.

"Abortion No" said this:
They claim this statistic is taken from "pro-abortion sites, like the Alan Guttmacher Institute and Planned Parenthood's Family Planning Perspectives."

The AGI said:

For clarification, I went to the original source. AGI took this statistic from Jones RK, Darroch JE and Henshaw SK, Patterns in the socioeconomic characteristics of women obtaining abortions in 2000–2001, Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health, 2002, 34(5):226–235..

which said:

So there we have it. You can make it seem epidemic by saying that 47% of abortions are performed on women who had a previous one by omitting the rest of the sentence.
47% seems like a lot until you consider all of the factors. Only 2 out of every 100 women has an abortion, which means that less than 1% of women will have more than one abortion. Even more, of those 47%, 36% have had a child AND an abortion, meaning they're not just aborting and aborting like No Abortion suggests.

Considering how hardened I've become to my little sister's screw ups, I'm pretty positive I'd give her the options of a) an abortion, b) giving the child up for adoption, or c) moving out and doing it on her own.

One of my good friends had an unexpected pregnancy in her first year of college, and she decided to keep the baby. She and the guy broke up (he was/is abusive), and she stayed in school. Guess who takes care of her kid, even now when she's out of school with a good job? Her parents still have her little girl because she still doesn't want to take full responsibility for her. I never want to find myself in a situation like that.

Other than ghoastgirl, it doesn't sound like any of you have been through anything even similar to this. We all know how we would WANT to act, but when it actually happens, more than likely we will all act differently.

I was 16 when I got pregnant with my son. It was stupidity on my part - the guy and I didn't have anything even resembling a relationship. I also never told my mom I was sexually active. I had sex only one time before, why embarrass myself? When I finally did tell my mom, she freaked out, literally. Screaming and yelling, throwing shit, threats. She was pissed. A day later, my mom, my sister, and I all sat down at the dining room table and discussed what we would do. She told me my options - adoption, abortion, giving her the child until I was ready and prepared to raise it, or keeping him for myself. All in all it was my choice.
Obviously, I chose to keep him. I went to school and worked full time, but eventually I was doing too much. I dropped out of school my senior year because I was failing two classes I needed to graduate due to absences. So, I went to working full time. Never did graduate.

I don't think I'm doing so bad now, and my mom definitely makes sure that I'm taking care of my son. I would hope if I ever have a daughter (or even if the situation happens with my son) and she tells me she is pregnant, that I would react the same way as my mom did. List the options, explain the options, and then leave the decision up to her. After all, it IS her life. As long as I give her the information that is needed, I can only assume she would make the decision that would be best for her.

If she's old enough to get pregnant, she's old enough to make her own choices. I would give her support in whatever she decided she wanted to do. Period.

Find the nearest flight of stairs...



Okay, I'm kidding of course.

Women can get pregnant before they're 13 sometimes. So I have to disagree with this statement being a blanket statement. I would agree if she was 17+, though.

Out of curiosity, are you talking about giving your sister these options or are you talking about a future daughter?

That may seem like the answer but the thing is, when you give a person (especially a teenager) ultimatums like these then you run the risk of exacerbating the problem. If the teenager wants to keep the child then they will move out and then the situation really gets bad.

Think about the last time someone gave you an ultimatum. Teenagers are not known for their cool-headedness during stressful times.

You can talk all you want about how "it's your house and, therefore, your rules" (I'm not saying that Jinnkai is implying this statement) but the fact is it is a human being you are dealing with-- a fairly mature human being with her own thoughts and ideas. This is not a six-year-old.This is a human being that you have been responsible for for many years. A human being in which you have a considerable amount of emotional, mental, and financial investment.

Say your daughter wants to really keep the baby and the guy with whom she conceived doesn't want to marry her or take care of her (beyond legal responsibilities). Are you really, really going to kick her out and run the risk of producing yet another low-income mom with a child that has no hope for the future?

Have we really produced a society that is so selfish that it would turn its back on its own flesh and blood? It doesn't really take much to help someone out in this situation. Raising a child (even a grand child) is not that difficult.

And yes, abortion may be the correct answer, but you can't force it upon someone. You may be able to exercise your parental rights if the daughter is young enough; but if she really wants to keep the baby then you're just going to ruin your relationship.

Isn't there a story in the news right now about a 10-year-old girl giving birth?

Yep, and even some 17-year-olds may be emotionally incapable of making a good decision without guidance. All of these scenarios really depend on the kind of girl your daughter turns out to be. Nothing is certain so you can't say with any certainty how you'd react.

More like taking the time.

Jinn my boy, obviously you are going through your radical stage, its all over your posts lately. You most likely don't know any women who had children at an early age and are glad they didn't abort because you are hanging out with self centered adult children who haven't really 'grown up' yet.

Being a 'normal' college girl, isn't all what its cracked up to be once you step away from the university and enter the real world.

So while you so arrogantly decide of course abortion is the best route, I mean a kid would crimp her style after all, know that there are many who are glad they didn't take that route, and one I know personally who wishes she didn't.

I don't hold it against you, you can't really understand it yet.

Before 13... that would probably warrant an abortion.

If it's in the 15-17 range, "Guess what honey... you get to become an adult early."

She made an adult decision getting pregnant. Now she gets to make another adult decision (keep it or not). Should she decide to keep it, many more adult decisions will follow.

Of course I will support her and advise her through it, but ultimately it will be better for her if I let her figure it out.

Yes, less than 1% of the population will have more than one abortion but it's important to note that only 2% of the population will have an abortion. .95 out of 100 isn't worth noting, but .95 of 2 is a substantial number. Anyway, you seem to ignore the fact that the 36% is part of the 47%, meaning that 11% of the people who had one abortion will have another one and no children while the other 36% will have at least one other abortion and one child. That doesn't change the fact that people who have one abortion are likely to have another one nor does it change the fact that they are more likely to have another abortion than people who have never had an abortion are to have one. Seriously. No one mentioned anything about aborting children with reckless regard, so I don't know why you bother bringing that up. The original statement was that people who have one abortion are likely to have another one. Not really sure how/why you bother arguing against that, but meh.

Uh... subject matter expert? :orly:

How about her cramping the kid's style with a mediocre-to-shitty life prospect? Nom nom nom! Mmmm, a potential life of food stamps and minimum wage jobs rocks my socks.

...

My not-a-genius point: Women can almost always make another kid. Other people will have unwanted kids even if said woman can't and that gives you a chance to adopt if you really want a brat of your own. Let us not populate the world with human mistakes, the product of bad judgment, when we have the technology to remedy the situation. Let's not encourage people to throw away their currently evolving life for one that hasn't even stared yet because they fear the Old 'n Holy Jesus-Fetus. It's for the Greater Good in the Hood.

Fetus: ITZ A MARACLE.

/insert ustwo quote/

Jinn doesn't need defending, but I don't understand why you're attempting to belittle his opinions as though your life's experience has given you such great wisdom.

I'm far from his age, but I still hold the same beliefs I did when I was his age, which are pretty close to his. Age has nothing to do with it. Personally, I would prefer my daughter have an abortion if she did become pregnant at 17. The only difference is that I would respect her wishes.

Thank you for taking the time to explain how you arrived at your conclusion Ustwo.

After reading this, you're right. I wouldn't kick her out but god would I hate myself for it. We are talking about hypothetical situations here, so it makes two things evident; (1) you can't really talk directly about what you'd do unless you already have a daughter this age, because your feelings toward your own spawn would certainly influence it and (2) you can't really know that this would ever happen. I'd love to believe that I would raise a child who was careful enough, and if not, as adamantly pro-choice that this wouldn't ever become an issue.

So in light of that, I stand by what I said. I can only address what I'd want to do, not what I will do. It's hypothetical.

I respect the fact that you are willing to admit that you have such a familiarity with being a normal college girl. Was it a cross-dressing thing, or was there an operation involved?

Or maybe you can't admit that
It's okay to admit you don't have the answers to everything, even if it's admitting that you've never been a college girl.

Have you heard of another term....

I think its adoption?

Yes thats it.

I'll add that the problem with Jinn wasn't that he advocated abortion, but that it was he thinks its have a meaningless abortion, and that any other option is stupid.

I'll give you this, but you have to take down your avatar. Bestiality is against TFP rules.

*glues on fake mustache, knocks on door*

Hey, I'm here for the abortion circle jerk!

Let's not do the choice battle here, okay? The point is that you can't say you're wiser because that would be your CHOICE. You're attempting to force your CHOICE down someone else's throat.

Well, abortion is nothing new nor are we the only animal that does it.

I'm certainly pro-choice--but I don't agree that it's always the right decision and it certainly shouldn't be made lightly. Who's to say that every young mother will turn out to be a welfare statistic? My mom was 17 when she conceived my older brother with my father. We were never on welfare ... (but just to be fair my parents did divorce when my mom was 23 about 2 years after I was born; so statistically speaking we fit right in).

Again, I will reiterate, abortion may or may not be the right decision ... but it may not fit in with your plan since your daughter is the one who will really have to make the decision.

QFT.

Also, I just realized that in my post to which you are replying I implied that 6-year-olds are not human ...

I want to state for the record that my 6-year-old is very much human; despite the way she acts sometimes.

:)

I can say I'm wiser because Jinn's choice was have an abortion or you are a dumb ass who ruined your life.

Thats simply not true.

Hey, Ustwo, what would your answer be to the OP? I'm just honestly curious.

To dependent on other variables.

I've known idiots who knocked up their girlfriends (and I think they are idiots for it yes, BC isn't rocket science) but they have been together for 20 years now. It can work and if the situation was such I'd be ok with that. A lot would depend on the quality of the boy and his parents as well. If his parents were interested in working it out as well and he seemed to have a clue it would positivity influence that avenue.

If it was apparent a long term relationship would not work out for whatever reason, I'd recommend adoption.

I'd be in favor of abortion only for health, rape, or very unusual circumstances. Such as she is a genius (who couldn't figure out birth control somehow) and had a very limited window to do a once in a life time program. I suppose the same could be said if she were on an athletic scholarship. I'd not recommend it as a rule if she was getting the typical Mrs. degree though. I don't think 9 months of your life is that long.

If everyone who agrees with abortion was aborted before they were born, then we'd never have to worry about an abortion topic as there wouldn't be anyone to defend the practice.

On topic, though, I can definitely say I'm wiser than anyone who would have an abortion. Why? 'Cuz I'm not foolish enough to get anyone pregnant if I can't handle the consequences.

Wrong. We have these things called "free will" and "education."

Or would you like to abort human choice, too?

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times: Free will =/= Free reign to do as you please. Because you can doesn't mean you should.

And I'm all for human choice, just so long as we abort those who make, or agree with, the wrong one.

>_>

Sorry for the threadjack here: but does this mean that you want to kill anyone who disagrees with you?

You can but you won't? I don't get what you're saying. I've never complained about any decisions I've made, nor do you know what those were, so I know you're not talking about me here.

I don't think nine months of your life is too long either. Who should decide what you do for the next nine months?

I realize you're sensationalizing selected responses. But the fact remains that most Pro-Choicers are just that. We're for abortion when it's the best choice. I stated my preference, but I would definitely be sure my child knew that carrying that baby for herself or for adoption were viable options.

You've never been a girl or a woman and never experienced the possibility of being in that position. Yes, you're a father but you've never been the mother of a teenage girl and been around multitudes of teen girls as an adult. You come across as lacking with the compassion and integrity it would take to support your daughter when she needs it most. (Although I somehow get the feeling that you're a big pile of mush around your kids. :orly: )

Hijack Shmyjack, I don't care. At least we know that you would make that decision on behalf of your daughter.

Remind me to tell you one day about my cousin's controlling father and the impact it had on her life. :)

I'd support an abortion. Wouldn't make the kid go against her wishes though. If she chose to keep it I would support that choice and kick her out on her ass.

First of all, I would hope that if she was mature enough to have sex that she would be mature enough to make the call on what to do about getting pregnant without needing my input.

That said, if she asked for my advice, I would discuss all of the available options. Tell that I would support whatever she decides. Then let her decide what to do for herself.

I won't list what the options are because every situation is different but it would include:

Abortion
Adoption
Keeping the baby

(Unprotected) sex invariably leads to pregnancy. In other words, that 'something' was growing exactly where it was supposed to be, as per nature.

So instead you'll just kill it. That's terribly flawed logic.

I'd just like to point out that it has nothing to do with insensitivity nor does it have anything to do with being male. One doesn't need to be female or have had an abortion in the past to discuss abortion-- Otherwise, you'd have to discount the opinion of *every* male on this board and not just the ones you don't agree with.

As a side note, I'd like to know how everyone's reactions would differ if their son came home and said he got a girl pregnant.

Pretty much the same way. I don't have a son ... but my reaction would depend upon the kind of person he is.

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I would NEVER "kick out" a child of mine for something like this and I find it incredibly disturbing that anyone WOULD kick out their own children. Unless a teenager is physically abusive I don't really understand how you could.

What a great way to show support.

My bad...forgot this forum was serious business :|

Mine would be the same. Flush-the-fetus! Whether or not the girl's parents agree? Who knows?

If I have kids... I'm buying them condoms for their 15th birthday.

I sure they'll already have some experience with them by then anyhow.

If it was a joke, I apologize for my reaction. This wasn't in the humor forum and sarcasm doesn't come through very well in writing. It's sometimes very hard for people to guess (or second-guess) the intent behind written words since we rely so much on body language in everyday speaking.

You mean it's not your logic.

It has everything to do with insensitivity. How can you care more about what happens to a fertilized ova more than for a woman, a living, breathing, thinking, albeit flawed human being?

And I don't believe *every* male on this board shares your lack of sensitivity.

I would make sure my son or daughter made a decision that he/she could live with. I believe there is no worse and cruel judge than one's self. I would help in any way, but the choice and consequences will ultimately weight upon him/her.

If it was my son, I would make sure he fulfills his duty to provide for and help with the girl he got pregnant, whatever choice they decide. If my daughter told me she was pregnant, I would damn straight make sure the guy that got her pregnant did all he can to help her and provide for her with her decision. Legally of course, regardless of my frustration at the situation.

An ex girlfriend and I once mused about what our kids would be like. This ultimately lead to the topic of pregnancy and abortion. She told me something that weighed heavily on me. "If I got pregnant, I would have an abortion. I would never tell you." I realized how much such knowledge would in deed weigh upon me. I would not be able to live with myself. That's why I'd make sure they can accept the consequences of their actions.

We all came from there, didn't we? We all ended here, didn't we? I am not going to argue abortion. I've already explained my sentiments on it, and those sentiments are not shared universally. Sometimes it is the only option. I just can't believe it would be an option faced by my self and my SO.

People only get upset over things they perceive to be true. Obviously you, at some level, don't believe what you typed out otherwise you wouldn't be up in arms over what I said. Contrary to what my signature says, I don't deem myself superior to anyone, but I do like to believe that I'm better equipped to make informed decisions and accept the consequences of those actions than certain people are.

*Points above*

If you want flowery, sugar-coated words then you're definitely barking up the wrong tree.

Okay... So let me get this straight. You're the one who became pregnant at 16 and ran off and got an abortion without notifying your parents because you "didn't want it" yet *I'm* the immature one? Mmmkay.

Notice I never once actually called you immature, but since you want to play that little game... Yes, I'm calling you-- And anyone else who resorts to having an abortion-- As immature. As many times as I say this, people either ignore it or try to make it much more complicated than it actually is; Either you have sex, accept the consequences of those actions and (wo-)man up and take care of any child produced as a result of those actions (Rape nonwithstanding, of course) OR you keep your pants on/stick strictly to self-indulgence.

Because the overwhelming majority of abortions aren't done for the well-being of the female, but for matters of convenience or because it would "ruin her life" (Hah! I wish, as a guy, I could get away with the "It would ruin my life" excuse). That's why.

Okay... Lemme' try this again. To discredit the opinions of someone based on the fact that they're 1.) Not a female and 2.) Never had an abortion would mean that you would have to discredit the opinion of *every* male and *every* female who hasn't had an abortion. Either you accept the opinions of everyone-- Not just those whom you agree with-- Or you accept none. You can't pick and choose >_>

Oh, and because I don't try to rationalize/excuse destructive behavior doesn't make me 'insensitive'.

Infinite_Loser, you're completely wrong because I don't agree with you.

That statement makes about as much sense as pretty much every post you've made in this thread. You have an opinion: congratulations. Don't try to force your opinion on others who have their own opinions.

Notice the only time I said someone was 'wrong' was in jest (Post #48).

Oh, and about the whole opinion thing... *Points to the bottom of post #63*

Saying that somebody's logic is flawed (as compared to yours, I assume) is a form of saying that they're wrong the way I see it. You might be able to prove false logic if the topic wasn't so subjective.

Ourcrazymodern?-ism:
I was born and so were all of you.

Well, my mom actually wanted me, so that would explain my presence in this realm you call reality.

Okay, I accept in advance the quality and quantity of flaming I will likely be enciting against mysef; but . . . my daughter is 22, graduated from college, and a manager at her work. Even with all that, she knows I will likely disown her if she gets pregnant. Not that I'm against sex, I'm not and I know she has gone through some very "slutty" times in her brief "career", as did I. However I am 100% planned, yes PLANNED parenthood. As I tell her, she doesn't yet have a job she likes, or friends that she respects; she doesn't know if she wants to stay put in this town or leave to somewhere very different. It would be entirely unfair to both her and any child for her to have one at this time. Carelessness is what I'm against. Children should be valuable enough to be considered BEFORE the choice to be pregnant/parent, not valuable by default because of carelessness.

Therefore if my daughter gets pregnant before she is happy with herself and her life, I would let it be her decision, but if she didn't have an abortion, our relationship end completely. Then of course, I have to evaluate the "party line" vs reality. Reality, I would disown her till she had no longer an option to abortion, that way I couldn't harp on her everyday. Then I would listen to see if she fully grasped the responsibility she was taking on and truly wanted it. If so, I'd un-disown her; if I didn't think so, I'd have to walk away, I can't see parents that don't take the raising of their children totally seriously.

BTW my son has the same threat over his head for getting a girl pregnant before she primarily, and he secondarily know themselves and are generally happy with their lives.

correction= *if he gets a girl pregnant. (for getting sounds like he has gotten a girl pregnant and he hasn't)

Just how adult do your children have to be before you would not disown her for not getting an abortion?

Your post is perhaps the most disturbing one I've read and my gut reaction is no mother could be so controlling and disturbing.

I do love how it would be unfair to the child.....more unfair than abortion?

Please.

TFP has a lot of dysfunctional family people, and dysfunctional people in general. Any of you wish you were aborted to be fair to you?

Give me a break on this sophistry. Its nothing to do with fairness to the child, its convenience to the mother, or in this case apparently the grandmother.

QFT (And, yes, that's a factually correct statement supported by mountains upon mountains of physical evidence).

It has nothing to do with age. It has to do with (in case you missed it) Planned parenthood. It has to do with her having a child because she wants to not because she thinks it will enhance a bad life or worse yet a bad relationship. It has to do with her knowing herself and giving herself time to enjoy her adult life, because once that child is born, she won't have her life if she is being a proper parent till the child is well past 10 years old. It has to do with truly valuing child/children and the parenting that goes with it.

As for the fairness of abortion, not a day goes by that I don't wish my parents had aborted me as my grandmother thought they should have. Nothing to do with me as I wasn't me yet. It had to do with my parents still wanting so much more for themselves that my grandmother feared the kids would be neglected as "mom" was only having kids to try to keep "dad," and she was also determined that she would not be a "mother" because she (my mother) believed that "mothers" were stupid. She never intended on caring for us in the least. And "dad" hated children, never wanted any, only stayed because back then that's what was done. He beat us regularly in the same styles as the recently found little girl's body, Riddley, in Texas. Since my brother is a junkie, well, you make the call. I believe and have experienced things worse than death and so has he.

The laws of nature don't take into consideration social mores.

Speaking of responsibility before sex is a worthless argument because we're biologically wired to have sex once we reach sexual maturity.

Sure, we can rationalize away some of that biology, but it still remains that we seek sex instinctively. We all love to prosthelytize in manners that suggest we're far more mature than that, but to say we were mature enough when we were 18, 19, or 20 to turn down sex because there was the slightest chance of pregnancy is ludicrous. If you were or are that mature, congratulations, now use your vast wisdom for good instead of finger-wagging.

And now for moderator-mode:

You all know the rules and you all love to be right, but if you can't take your hostility and personal attacks out of your posts, then we will remove your ability to post in this thread.

How can you attack someone on what their personal response would be to something.



"I really like this cheeseburger."

"No you don't motherfucker. You like ham sandwiches."

Im rather torn on the issue. But one thing that I know without a doubt, is that I would want my daughter to finish school, baby or not. Graduating from high school is non-negotiable. It is far too important for her well being and chance at life for me to kick her out and make it impossible for her to go to school.

Obviously, I would support her decision to do what she thinks is best. If she wants to keep the baby, I would help her with daycare until she graduates. Besides, itd be a grandbaby, Id want to watch the baby a lot anyway.

There would be terms set up though, that they have to move out a year after she completes high school. This would give her time to find an apartment/house to rent, get a job, and secure financial aid to help pay for daycare. I would also try to show her the options of going to a community college part time so that she can still get an associates degree or be working towards it. Young mothers, especially single, have their way to school completely paid by the Pell Grant.

Overall, it would be very tough, but I wouldnt just drop my daughter and let her flounder around, especially not with a baby involved.

To be fair, you do love ham sawwiches. And stuffed olives.

Just to clarify, in no way have I ever expected or asked my daughter (or son) not to have sex. My daughter chose to wait till after she was 18 and from the time she was 15 till 18, I was worrying her regualarly because she was seemingly growing up chill to the point of frigid. Fortunately her libido kicked in at 18 (she was menstruating since 9 so it was a long wait for her) anyway, then she went sex crazy. I think that was/is just grand.

I am against her getting pregnant, not against her having sex. Educated women can generally utilize some method to avoid pregnancy. Generally these methods work.

WK - this may be the funniest and most insightful thing you've ever posted on this board. And that's really saying something.

I have no children, but hypothetically, she'd either have to give it up for adoption or, depending on how far along she was, there'd be an appointment made at the local clinic. Unless there's some extreme measure like this is her high school sweetheart and they're going to be together forever, it's not happening in my household (hypothetically).

Wow, zombie unexpected/unnecessary fetus thread.

Man, I miss UsTwo...

Yeah I'm not sure about the need for a resurrection here, but whatever. This seems like one of those threads that needed to stay dead.

I have an opinion, but I'll write it later. Or not at all looking that the old posts in this thread.

Oddly enough, this was the only thing I was offended by in this entire abortion of a thread.

(I see what I did there. :) )

You seem like a smart girl, so I'm assuming you were just being a little too strong with your wording... you don't truly think someone must be a woman to have a response to this situation, or gay to have an opinion about gay rights, or blah blah blah, right?

Man, I feel dirty quoting something from years ago.