JimmyTheHutt

So a friend, a good friend, just stabbed me in the back over a piece of tail.

What should I do?

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

allaboutmusic

Re-evaluate your friendship.

Daniel_

and shag his mother.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
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Hain

@ Above: good suggestions.
_________________________________________________________________
Hmm this sounds like the story of my teenage years.

So some questions. What happened?

I'll just take a guess at this one: how long did you wait before your friend figured you weren't going to make a move?

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jewels

Pull out the knife, clean the wound. Apply antiseptic and a little antibiotic cream. Then get a big Band-Aid or stitches, depending on the size of the wound.

Don't stab him back. It won't make your wound heal faster.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

JimmyTheHutt

Actually, I was already making moves. Had been out on some dates with the girl in question. Had a party last night and invited her. Took care of some things for about 15 minutes, and the games was over.

Apparently, there had been conversations I knew nothing about. He claims obliviousness, as it wasn't moving quickly he figured I had relinquished claim.

Not sure if I believe him or not.

I'm in the process of that right now.

He has a roof over his head, furniture, bandwidth, etc., on my dime, and by my good graces.

I am tempted to change the locks when he leaves.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

Martian

Listen to Fall Out Boy and cut yourself.

Or, y'know, get over it. If you weren't actively getting your mack on with the girl you didn't really have a claim on her. Recent studies have shown that women are actually capable of making choices independent of the men around them. In that light, maybe she just preferred him.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

JumpinJesus

If it was just a piece of tail and not a human being, then what's there to be angry over?

__________________
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

Manic_Skafe

Why?

And why do I get the feeling that this whole situation is just another incident in the history of an off-kilter relationship between you and him that's gone on for far too long?

...

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Hain

Remember kids, down the street- not across.

Agreed.

Would he be pissed if she was just a piece of tail to him?

It isn't always the case. A friend of mine [at the time best friend] did something similar to me. Came down to he wouldn't stand for someone younger than him getting the girl he knew.

Based on only this, it sounds like you had your chance to catch the fish but she didn't bite. How serious was this between you two?

__________________

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JimmyTheHutt

Because he is out on his ass and he needed the help.

Strangely enough, you pretty much nailed that one on the head. Not the first time, but it is going to be the last.

I've pretty much concluded that this is my fault. I was pretty aggressive in my pursuit of her, and completely unsubtle about my interest. I guess it just wasn't enough.

Pretty much. I could live with that. It happens all the time.

However, he never approached me, or dealt with me in an honest matter about it. He just went for it. He knew where I stood, and ran right over me. Neither of them bothered to consider me in this at all. And they are both supposed to care about me SO much. At least that is what they keep telling me. Like their meaningless patronizing platitudes mean anything now.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

JimmyTheHutt

So, I've been thinking about this.

How I feel is no one's responsibility but my own. They did what felt right for them. The impact on me is mine to deal with, not theirs. Everything else is just me being petty and juvenile.

I can't help being angry, but I can make sure that they don't carry it as their responsibility.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

Martian

Congratulations! You've reached the mature decision. You may think I'm being sarcastic, but I'm not; a whole mess of people never come to this realization. Hence my somewhat mean-spirited response above.

Now that you've realized the truth, all you have to do is implement it. Be happy for them. Also, if he really is sponging off you as detailed above, tell the lazy bum to get a job and start pulling his weight. Roommates aren't bad in and of themselves. Roommates who don't chip in their share, however, are definitely not cool.

But specific to the relationship, yeah. They're responsible for their own happiness, and you're responsible for yours. They've both made the decision that they think will lead them to be happy, and it's up to you to do the same. And I promise you that being bitter about what they've decided will not make you happy.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

allaboutmusic

Martian is right - whether your friend's actions were right or wrong is almost irrelevant at this point. How you choose to react and move on is the only thing that will have an effect on your life from this point forward.

JimmyTheHutt

I don't think I'm mature enough to be happy for them just yet . Like I said, I am angry, but that's my deal and not theirs. I am not going to make them apologize for it, but I do think I am going to keep my distance for awhile. Once I simmer down, and I will, it will be better.

Really, the worst thing is that I was starting to feel really good about myself prior to this, and I have demolished all that hard work in the wake of this. I have to start all over again, and I did it to myself.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

Halx

If all she is to you is a piece of ass, then you shouldn't be phased by this. A piece of ass is a piece of ass. A dude who views a girl as a piece of ass is a dude who can move on to the next piece of ass if he doesn't get that one. You're acting like you were considering a relationship.

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You have found this post informative.
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MSD

Shock
[QUOTE=JimmyTheHutt]
Not sure if I believe him or not.
[quote]
Denial (I know it's not quite, but bear with me for humor's sake)
Anger
Guilt.
Acceptance

Congratulations, you've officially gotten over it.

JimmyTheHutt

I was. She and I click (at least from my side of things) on multiple levels.

It's over now, of course. I'm just going to lick my wounds and get on with life.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

ItWasMe

On one hand, it can be a frustrating situation when you are crazy about a male friend, but his friend "saw you first" and called dibbs. Ugh! I'm sure guys in this situation would be frustrated, as well.

On the other hand...

I don't even know him, and I don't believe him. Partly because you said it has happened before. Does he not know how to go out and meet girls? Do you think he does this intentionally to hurt you? You had been on dates with her. She may have decided she was not interested in you, BUT when your roomie invites the girl he's dating to his party, it sounds like a date to me. I think it's bad form to hook up with someone else when you are on a date. Same bad form to pick up your friend's date when he is actually on that date. Jeez. Anger is understandable. Just don't let it consume you.

Find a new love interest after you send that guy packing from your livingroom.

__________________
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .


"Ok, no more truth-or-dare until somebody returns my underwear" ~ George Lopez

I bake cookies just so I can lick the bowl. ~ ItWasMe

JimmyTheHutt

In regards to the first question, he knows all too well how to do so. He's pretty successful in that regard.

In regards to the second, it has occurred to me. However, I just think he didn't even consider it.

Truthfully, that hurts worse than if he were malicious about it, because it means that neither of them ever gave a shit about me.

However, as stated previously, it's not their job to worry about how I feel. It's my job. I can't blame them for my reaction whatsoever. I can only own it as being petty, and jealous, and a sore loser. I need to deal with my shit and move on.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

genuinegirly

Changing locks would be petty.
Giving him 2 weeks to move out is not.

Really... what they have done is not fair to you.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

JimmyTheHutt

It's tempting to indulge in some vengeance. But, really, they did what they thought would make them happy. It's not their job to make sure I am alright with it. They have nothing to feel guilty over, really, other than some discourtesy and a lack of consideration. I am the one that made it so huge. They just saw another person that they vibed with.

This doesn't stop me from being pissed off and hurt, but I have to work through that. Kicking him out isn't going to accomplish that. It's just going to end a 13 year friendship. And, this issue and its previous incidents aside, he has helped me out and backed me up so many times it defies description.

She, on the other hand, is pretty much going to be out of my life altogether. Not out of petty vengeance, but the fact that I need separation. In this case, I have to do what feels right for me, and that includes not dealing with her anymore. I also need seek out some therapy. This whole thing has revealed larger issues in my own psyche that need the assistance of a professional to resolve. I should be confident enough in myself that this kind of thing would not hurt this bad. After all, it's not like I was in love with her. I was attracted and interested, and I cared about her, but that's it. I should be able to dust myself off, and get back in the game. I know that I just can't do it. I feel like the victim of adultery, and that is NOT at all what happened. I am playing the victim card when it just isn't justified. Something else is clearly going on and this is just symptomatic.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

Shauk

tag team her, she'd be down.

JimmyTheHutt

Been there, done that .

Not with this girl, of course, but it has happened in the dark days of my wild youth.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

Willravel

Jesus, Jimmy, sorry to hear that.

My suggestion? Find some "tail" worthy of Jimmy the Hutt.

KellyC

Wow, props to you for figuring this out on your own. Seriously. It takes a great deal of honesty to admit to one's self that one needs help. Recently I've just been able to come to terms with the fact that I may need some therapy as well. It isn't easy, I tell you.

__________________
Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe?
Me: Shit happens.

JimmyTheHutt

I think that I've been aware of the fact that I am in trouble for some time, I just didn't want to admit it. This has brought everything to the fore, and so I have to deal with it. Obviously, my previous behavior wasn't working, so I need to try something different. The only way to find that out is with a professional.

I'm kinda feeling like Dan Rydell from Season 2 of Sports Night .

The biggest and most obvious lesson came to me when, on the spur of the moment, I asked why I keep doing this to myself, and it dawned on me that I was doing it to myself.

Right now, I think that amounts to a pillow with a hole cut in it .

Clearly, I have some self-esteem issues to work out.

Thanks for the sympathy, though. I appreciate it.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

Willravel

HA~! Unexpected laugh. Wait, what's the hole for?
Go find a quality woman. WILLRAVEL COMMANDS IT.

JimmyTheHutt

I hear and obey .

Seriously, though, I think I need to be in a much better headspace before I try this again. Getting laid might help though .

Honestly, she is a quality woman. She's just never going to be with me, and I have to get used to the fact. I don't do it for her. That's not her fault. That's not my fault. That's just what is, like gravity.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

Willravel

Are you calling gravity a whore?

JimmyTheHutt

Not at all. Although I wish it was. It might be possible to negotiate then.

All I'm saying is that this is pretty immutable. Nothing is going to change the whole "me and her" aspect of the situation.

Like Raul Julia once said, "No man should be blamed for what direction his dick goes. That's like blaming a compass for pointing north, for Christ's sake." She went where she was compelled. Unfortunately, that wasn't me.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

pig

jimmy: while i understand your rationalization of the events and your decision to move on, particularly with respect to your buddy who you've been friends with for 13 years, you shouldn't delude yourself into thinking that this is acceptable behavior or that it's all your fault. your friend's position is pure bullshit. if i've been out a few times with a girl, and i invite her to a party, then she's hands off to my buddies. it doesn't matter how much they vibe, whether or not they spontaneously start speaking in a unique language all their own and have a moment of bliss normally attributed to the effects of massive doses of lsd - she's hands off until after a conversation has occurred between myself and my friend. frankly, she's probably de facto off limits for a while after that conversation as well, while everyone gets adjusted. sure, maybe he's fucking her behind my back, but she's already given me the 'it's not you, it's me' talk and we've cut ties, etc. if you bring a chick over to your house and your buddy ends up hooking up with her, that's a complete violation of your friendship and you're completely normal to feel deceived by that.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Jinn

I've never viewed women as property to "claim", whether by "finders keepers" rules or not. I wouldn't expect my friends to back off a girl I was interested in, because I have no stake in it, no 'claim' to her as my property. Frankly, I think a position of "finder's keepers" or a 'back down' agreement is the "bullshit."

I think the best man will always win, and I'm confident enough to say that if a girl went with a friend then he offered her something that I didn't. That's good, because I'd hate to waste my time who would've been better pleased by someone else. Find someone who appreciates what you come to the table with, and likes it better than what your buddy brings. Don't blame him for bringing something better to the table.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Plan9

That's for you to figure out and my smoothspot to never know.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

JimmyTheHutt

I am trying very hard to get to that point. Intellectually, I know that it's the truth. However, emotionally I am still pretty angry. Biology keeps winning out unfortunately.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

pig

It has nothing to do with viewing the girl as 'finders keeper' or as a possession. It has to do with respecting your friends emotionally. If a friend of mine is clearly interested in a girl, to the extent that he's been out with her a couple of times and has invited her over to party, I'm not moving in on his girl. Period. The friendship needs to be respected. I just wouldn't do that to a buddy of mine, and I wouldn't expect one of my friends to do it to me. I've been in situations where a friend of mine and I liked the same girl before. In those situations, if one of us started getting signs from her, or moved first, then that guy got the opportunity to play out the situation. In this case, it seems like old Jimmy here made the first move, and while in the process of exploring that situation, his friend moved up an snarfed his girl...during a party. To me, that's pretty damn low. At the very least I'd expect him to ask me how things were going with her, at a point after the party was over, because he was getting some vibe from her and wanted to know if I was serious about the situation. Finding out this way is, in my opinion, extremely disrespectful of the friendship. If the guy isn't my friend, then he has no obligations to me, and I respect the situation - and as you pointed out jinn, I'm thankful that he saved everywhere a bunch of horseshit in trying to figure things out. But if he's my friend, then there's just certain things you don't do. This is just one of those things. You have to be able to trust your friends, and this type of things doesn't lend itself well to being able to trust.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Jinn

Or does it? Have you really thought about why you would have such a rule? Because your friends might lose out on "having" something they might otherwise not? Your language seems to reveal the truth in my statement:

His girl? He's already laid "dibs" on her? She's already his potential property? She isn't just a girl anymore, but "his" girl. This implies ownership. She's still just a girl looking for someone to love, but somehow in your juvenile system of "I called dibs!" she's now his claim until he releases his stake in it. At this point you've completely take out her CHOICE in the matter. Maybe she wanted to be with you, instead? By making her property in this manner, you remove her ability to choose.

Again, "his" girl. What has he done to earn the title to her? Has he fought valiantly for the right to claim rights to the land? This sounds like a bidding war on a car, not a real-life blood-and-bones woman.

This sounds like the lead in to one of those shitty teen email chains about "Man Rules" or "What a Real Man does." Contrary to your belief that this is some sort of universal "thing you don't do," my friends and I all agree that in it'd be a "best man wins" situation should we both be interested in the same woman.

Keep in mind that this is a minority position, simply because it requires a good deal of self confidence to say "Yea, go for it. If we both go for her and she picks me, then clearly I had more of what she wanted." It doesn't have to be an ego hit if a girl picks you over your 'bro', so long as you have the maturity to realize that it is indicative of her preference rather than a flaw in yourself.

Most people don't have the self-confidence to live in such a scheme, but I wouldn't be friends with guys who couldn't handle this. It doesn't have to be an archaic property claim, ala "bros before hos," as you seem to imply.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

JimmyTheHutt

That's the toughest part, frankly. Not to argue against what you are saying, which, as the person directly involved, I agree with, but its easier to say things like that than to live it. I know, in my purely logical brain, that this is the case. My emotional responses are purely reptile. It's not fair to her, or him, or me.

I have a lot of work to do.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

pig

jinn: you're right - my choice of wording didn't convey what i meant. when i say 'his,' i do not mean to imply possession. i mean, i stated that at the beginning, but i concede the semantic argument. what i meant was 'the girl he's pursuing,' but used 'his' as short-hand to convey that relation of people in the hypothetical scenario. to me, it's not so much about something...juvenile...as you put it, say 'man rules' or the equivalent. it's about respecting the friendship. in my experience, when people start dating someone, they often tend to get hopes of where it might lead, and they start..well...being attracted to the other person. i don't know about you, but i personally have found that i dislike it when i am rejected. i wouldn't want to put my friend in the position of feeling like they were rejected by me, particularly in something emotional. now, sometimes it happens. i've been there. but out of respect for my friend, i would keep them informed and discuss it with them beforehand. not after i'd hooked up with the girl, or after i'd asked her out when i knew he was dating her. i would have to ask myself which relationship i valued more - the friendship, or the potential dating relationship with the girl...one of them has 13 years, one of them has a few days or etc. one of them has been there for me, the other one looks good in a skirt. if i'm going to be in competition for something with a friend, i want to know from the get-go, and i've found that competing over the same girl almost never ends well. maybe you and your friends don't roll that way, in which case i suppose i'm happy for you. i just don't snake my friend's love interests...there are far too many girls out there to pursue, and friendships are too rare. i think it helps the friendship to know that you support them in what they're doing, and that you want them to be happy even if it means passing up an opportunity to hang out with potentially great girl. and if she is that great for you...well, a little time and communication won't hurt anything.

instead of finding out that your friend had hooked up with some girl you were interested in, or had asked her out or whatever, i'd rather have my friend come and ask me about it. it's just a respect thing. respect makes strong friendships.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

JimmyTheHutt

I agree on this point. It would have been better had he come and talked to me before he made his approach. I still wouldn't have been pleased, but I would have felt a little bit of concern from him.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer