neflyte

My best friend and his now ex-girlfriend have just ended a 9-year relationship. Not more than a week after it all went down, things between them have gotten quite sour. The kicker, she lives with him in his apartment and refuses to leave with any haste even though she pays no rent and is not on the lease.

I got a call from my friend about an hour or so ago wherein he asked if i could accompany him to his apartment after being away from town for a week. His rationale was to have a 3rd party present so that the ex couldn't pull any "fast ones". His main concern was that she could intentionally "fall down the stairs" and take him to court with allegations of assault. While I don't know his ex to be this sort of person, I can understand his concern being the day and age it is with domestic disputes.

Long story short, I respectfully declined to accompany him as I really do not want to get involved. I went through a messy breakup a year or so ago and have no desire to relive any similar events or emotions.

I'm standing by my decision not to accompany him, however I'd like to know what the rest of you think. Should I have helped?

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"I'm not a vegatarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." -- A. Whitney Brown

snowy

No. You have no obligation to get involved.

I think this guy is really overthinking things, and he needs to cut the woman in question a little slack. He can't just expect that she can get her shit together immediately, especially after 9 years and a traumatic breakup. I understand he wants her out of his house, but here's the thing--she might not have anywhere else to go.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Plan9

9 years, huh? Yikes.

Shoulda gone marriage w/ a prenup: Think of it as an airbag.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

neflyte

Apparently he got his brother (a lawyer) to give her a call. His brother wasn't a stranger and just explained things a bit to her. So now I've been told that she's "seen the light" and is arranging to get her stuff out.

Note that she's apparently had a couple weeks to sort this all out, but wanted to simply remain in his apartment (still) without paying any rent or whatnot.

My friend's brother actually advised not to go back to the apartment at all and not to have any sort of confrontation. I see that as sound advice. They both just need to move on from all of it.

Ironic thing about that is, we (and by we, i mean myself and the rest of my friends) have been bugging this guy to finally pop the question for /years/. He was never really ready for it and didn't make much money. In contrast, his ex was convinced she should get a huge rock out of the deal. I'm so glad he didn't propose.

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"I'm not a vegatarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." -- A. Whitney Brown

Plan9

Gold-digging "slunts" (TM) with a rock agenda aside, marriages (these days) without prenups are like cars without airbags... you don't know who'll get screwed.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

neflyte

Yeah, but does one really need a pre-nup these days? isn't that saying you don't trust the other person?

what happened to the relationships that just worked out? they must still occur...

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"I'm not a vegatarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." -- A. Whitney Brown

World's King

We all know the person you divorce isn't the same person you marry.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

Plan9

Don't trust the other person? Hahaha, YES. It means you don't trust them not to ruin your life after something horrible happens and you split. I've seen first hand the petty bullshit that comes out of a divorce. It's way ugly.

A prenup is exactly what I said: a safety mechanism for possible failure. A way to deal with things IF your marriage doesn't work out. You're all "But we're in LOVE!" until she drops the d-bomb one fine Monday morning and tries to take half of your assets in a settlement that feels very much like anal rape.

Considering the fact that the divorce rate hovers around half and people with three and four ex-partners are rather common... how many times do you want to lose your house and cars before you "get it right?"

Relationships work all the time. At least half, right?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

JumpinJesus

Sure, those relationships do occur, but in today's society™, people enter into relationships as a way to pass the time until the next best thing™ comes along. This being the case, we are constantly suspicious and wary of those around us. We've come to believe that everyone is working some kind of angle or has some ulterior motives. We've become so cynical and jaded that it's become somewhat of a rarity that two people find each other and get on without any severe hangups.

It's rather sad, really.

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"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

Plan9

No, sad is losing your house and car.

If you need sad, I can post sad.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

canuckguy

dude he is your bestfriend and you did not want to pull a solid for him? how did you think your going to get involved?

i personally would have went. i would have told him i would not be arguing on his behalf or doing anything other than observing for both of their best interests. i don't think it is wrong what he wanted a third party present, better safe than sorry.

snowy

Well said.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Plan9

Poetic. Applies to both sides of the attorney's table, I'd imagine.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

cyklone

Personally, I like my friends to be there when I need them. I would go through hell for my mates and I would like to think they would do the same for me. Then again, I'm Australian and perhaps we have a different concept of mateship. We do have a different idea about relationships legally. If you have been together nine years and have any kind of proof, you are regarded as having the same rights and obligations as being legally married, and she would be entitled to half the lot.

jewels

I'm keeping that one.

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

tecoyah

Quoted for truth....


Truly sad is losing your kids....but the house really sucks too.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

fresnelly

I've always been curious about the path from "the person you marry" to "the person you divorce".

How does that happen?

As for the OP, I'd have gone with him to provide a calming presence. At the very least, be a help on the day that she finally moves out. That's going to be an important and touchy day.

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Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

Jinn

The things he or she did before you got married that weren't so bad are now the things that drive you nuts, because it's quite apparent they won't be changing anytime soon. You start to resent those things that bother you, and they start to notice you pulling away. They start resenting your stand-offishness, and wondering if you don't find them attractive anymore. You try to convince them otherwise, but they've already decided based on your inability to change that you don't really love them. You start resenting their assumptions and start pulling away more. Pretty soon, you're two toxic people who hate 90% of the things the other person does and says. You start saying things like "IMAGINE THAT!" and "You would do that, wouldn't you." Maybe even "That's so typical of you."

There are potential variations, including abuse, cheating, constantly traveling, miscommunicated desires, or even things you didn't know about your spouse before you married them. The last one is the most common, I think. People really don't ask "THOSE QUESTIONS" and get honest answers.

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Plan9

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

vanblah

OT: I wonder if divorce would be so bad if lawyers weren't involved?

Hain

Amen. Can we sticky this somewhere?

Same here. I would have gone. My best friend and I have this modo, "Call and I'll be there with two shovels." Hasn't failed yet.

We all can imagine that it can get worse... much much worse without some arm of the legal system putting each party in their respective timeout corner.

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neflyte

In any other situation, i'd be by his side without blinking. However, this time I refused because I couldn't emotionally handle it. i have absolutely, positively ZERO desire to feel what he's going through again. It happened to me in a similar fashion about a year or so ago, and it still hurts to this day.

Yes, i'm sure i'll hear responses of "it will always hurt to some degree" and "get over it already". For the former, i'm well aware of that but it doesn't mean i can't actively choose not to experience it if i wish not to. For the latter, give me a 100% workable procedure for "getting over it" and i'll follow it to the T with 120% of my effort. Until that time, stuff it! :P </rant>

__________________
"I'm not a vegatarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." -- A. Whitney Brown

Hain

So when he asks you for advice on how to deal with this, what do you tell him? "Well I first deny to myself that it happened and try to forget all memory. Then, I back down when my best friend, you, asks for my help and advice in this situation. I never really got over it." YOU are not the one kicking out your SO. HE is. Bite on your lower lip, convince yourself it's a bad dream, and step up. Everything was beautiful and nothing hurt.

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vanblah

Yes, if only that's all that the lawyers did.

Hain

@ vanblah:
Touche. A touch, I admit. Point goes to you.

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neflyte

I'm waiting patiently for the procedure to do just that. Perhaps it will just take me longer than some others to "get over it".

And if he does ask me for advice on how to handle it, i'll tell him whatever I can. it won't be perfect advice since i didn't go through the same situation.

i'm allowed to choose what I do and do not expose myself to. so far, the only point i've seen in this thread is that i should have just ignored what i felt and have been there for him. so, maybe i'm not his best friend anymore then. maybe i'm too emotionally fragile to be anyone's best friend if I can't simply store away what I feel and be there for someone. Please tell me how one can do this. I'd love to learn how.

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"I'm not a vegatarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." -- A. Whitney Brown

jewels

I'm sorry to hear that your experience was and still is painful for you.

Everyone has their own timeframe for "getting over" different emotional attachments. I don't believe anyone would deny you that. But sometimes we can heal even more quickly by realizing we can be constructive and regain our self-worth while we help others, despite our own pain.

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

neflyte

True, and I think I'll be able to do that eventually. Unfortunately for me and my friend, that time was not now.

I'm actually going to talk to my friend about the whole thing and see what he thought of my decision. In the end, his brother (a lawyer, unsure which specialty) recommended that he not take me along anyways for concerns that the situation might escalate.

__________________
"I'm not a vegatarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." -- A. Whitney Brown

Plan9

Righteous.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Merlocke

Best friends or not, you're always going to be seen as "on his side" regardless if you're arguing, or a proverbial fly on the wall. Tell him you'll support him by buying him drinks, listening to him, and buying him lap dances but if she ends up going psycho, she can take you down a notch too. That accidental falling down the stairs story can work against you as well eh?

Let the lawyers do things the proper way. In this day and age with frivolous lawsuits - be sure to stay clear of being an easy target.

-=-

On the legal side however, I'm certain there is a timeframe when you can evict someone for not paying rent if they're occupying an area where they're not on the lease papers, and not "entitled" to live there. Unless they can claim that the living conditions have been set there so long that it can be considered common-law marriage already. Good luck to your friend.

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-=[ Merlocke ]=-

Hain

First, you remind yourself that everything you feel- love, hate, anguish, depression, rage, joy- is just a temporary state of being. Then you:

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Hardknock

damn skippy brother.

damn skippy.