American Segregation - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Fast Forward · 12-17-2007, 01:19 AM

I seldom miss ”Cops” on the TV. I like it the way those big, middle-aged policemen, laden with all of that equipment, run down swift, young crooks with t-shirts and jogging shoes and actually catch them! Fantastic.

But when I turn on the TV I usually see the last few minutes of the previous program, another American series, “Stargate”. Now that’s a piece of shit strictly for the children of illiterate parents who never went to school. Anyway, last week Teal’c (you know: the guy with a logo imbedded into his forehead) and crew went back to his home planet where he (a black man) is a minority. Low and behold he ran into his distraught wife and child – also black.

That his wife might be anything other than black is something that the American prime-time TV producer would probably not dare risk his career over. Are white Americans afraid that if their daughters see interracial relationships on prime-time TV that they’ll be hell bent on jumping into bed with the first black man they lay their eyes on?

It amazes me that even in their fantasy dreams of the future they envision that in all the worlds (in all the universes) racial segregation will be acceptable by American standards. Tsk! Tsk!

SecretMethod70 · 12-17-2007, 01:54 AM

http://www.usatoday.com/life/televis...-couples_x.htm

Quote:

Love is no longer color-coded on TV

By Ann Oldenburg, USA TODAY

One of the sweetest scenes to unfold on recent television was the long-awaited reunion of Bernard, the scruffy old survivor from the tail section of the downed Lost plane, with his calm and loving wife, Rose. Rose is black. Bernard is white.

And one of the spiciest relationships on TV right now is blossoming between feisty, attractive Grey's Anatomy doctors Cristina Yang, who is Asian, and Preston Burke, who is black.

Interracial pairings suddenly are integral to several of today's top-rated TV shows, including Grey's, Lost, My Name Is Earl and ER.

But these on-screen pairings no longer draw the kind of attention and reaction they did in the '60s and '70s. Romances between people of different colors are being handled more offhandedly, with race being neither an issue nor much of a plot point.

"Honestly, we really don't even talk about it or consider that it's an interracial couple," ER executive producer David Zabel says of characters Neela Rasgotra, who is of Indian descent, when she married Michael Gallant, who is black.

Younger people today don't see the couple as different races, he says. "They don't draw those lines. Watch MTV, and you'll see videos with all kind of people interacting."

On Grey's Anatomy, the race difference between the lovers has not been addressed. Instead, other differences have been highlighted. Sandra Oh's character is messy; Isaiah Washington's character is tidy. She's Jewish; he's not; he's spiritual; she's not.

The pairing stems from "casting whoever we thought was best for the part," says creator/executive producer Shonda Rimes.

Washington, who plays Dr. Burke, didn't want to talk about his character's romance, saying through his publicist that drawing attention to the races takes away from the fact that it's quietly and happily existing without being an issue.

His sentiment echoes that of Morgan Freeman, who said on Sunday's 60 Minutes that the whole idea of a month for black history is "ridiculous" because it separates black history from American history and is part of a labeling process that abets racism.

But does this reflect a real maturing of public opinion, or is it the view through Hollywood's rose-colored glasses?

"The reality is that interracial couples still deal with discrimination and hate," says Carmen Van Kerckhove, co-director of New Demographic, a diversity training company. "It's a positive thing that we're seeing less of a tragic element. Television models for us what we should think about people, really determines our taboos and what's acceptable. The more people see positive and normal representations, that will lessen the fear and taboo."

Although the television industry long has been accused of not casting and portraying enough actors and actresses of different races and ethnicities, Zabel says that has slowly been shifting, and ER has been a front-runner.

Mixed couples have been on at least since black Dr. Peter Benton (Eriq La Salle) and white Dr. Elizabeth Corday (Alex Kingston) were hot and heavy in the late 1990s. "This show has always tried to have a broad range of backgrounds — ethnic, religious and cultural backgrounds," Zabel says.

Parminder Nagra, who plays Neela, says it would be more of an issue if ER suddenly cast an Indian man for her to love. Her story line with Gallant works, she says.

"Why wouldn't these two people get together? They're very passionate about life and each other. On a bigger level, it gives people hope." And the romance, she says, sweeps viewers away, making them forget about race.

What will come later might be a story line that addresses race through family, Zabel says. That's where a clash may come as tradition is broken, and race will play a role.

"I knew certain people would look at it and go, 'An Indian girl is going out with this black guy.' "

But what they should notice is the passion, Nagra says. "It's important to have this on screen. There are so many mixed relationships. I don't think it's portrayed enough on television."

Racism is often reflected on television through hate crimes and other violent stories, Nagra says. "We know racism exists. Let's show people getting on. Let's be positive about it."

Mixed-race romances on television have never been plentiful, as the mass medium has been fearful of alienating viewers and advertisers.

In 1957, on Alan Freed's weekly rock 'n' roll show, black singer Frankie Lymon was seen dancing with a white woman. ABC promptly canceled the show.

On Star Trek, when Lt. Uhura and Capt. Kirk kissed (against their will) in 1968, it was heralded as the first interracial smooch on television.

And when Norman Lear featured a black woman and a white man as married neighbors to 1975's The Jeffersons, it was considered groundbreaking.

In real life, the gap slowly is narrowing. According to the most recent Census, interracial marriages grew from less than 1% in 1970 to nearly 6% in 2000. And as more of the world becomes a melting pot, interracial relationships have popped up more frequently on TV as well, though often tangentially. Some examples:

• Debra Messing's Grace dated guest star Gregory Hines on Will & Grace in 2000.

• David Schwimmer's Ross character fell for Aisha Tyler's Charlie on Friends in 2003.

• Gary Dourdan's Warrick has a history with Marg Helgenberger's Catherine on CSI.

So as the TV landscape has evolved, the issue now is less of whether mixed couples are featured on top shows, but when, how and if the writers will make their race part of the story line.

As Lost's Hurley observed soon after he saw Bernard, in the show's sole comment, "So Rose's husband's white. Didn't see that one coming." Jack, annoyed, quickly changed the subject.

The producers decided that acknowledging the couple's racial differences was necessary.

"The thing we love most about Hurley is he's somehow able to say what people are saying in their living rooms just about the time people are saying it," says Lost executive producer Carlton Cuse. "We thought everyone's expectation would be for her to have a black husband. We wanted to confound everyone's expectation. Everyone would be looking for the 50-year-old black guy."

In the case of Rose and Bernard, a story line of an older black/white couple could provide an interesting back story as they coped with segregation and civil rights issues. Executive producer Damon Lindelof says, "That's something we're planning," but it won't be before next season.

L. Scott Caldwell, the actress who plays Rose on Lost, says she didn't want to see or meet her on-screen husband for the sake of the authenticity of the reunion scene, so she and the actor, Sam Anderson, took pains not to ride in the same van to and from the set and avoided having their paths cross while filming in Hawaii.

"At this point, because I didn't know that Bernard was white, I was only playing a woman whose husband was missing and what that would be like. In my mind, I was using my real husband, who is 6-foot-5 and a black man. I was playing from my own reality."

When she found out, "I wasn't shocked, but I was surprised."

Viewers "immediately responded to it," she says. "Mostly it's been positive. There have been people who say, 'What's up with that?' "

She thinks that not having any nod to it in the show's dialogue would have been unrealistic. "Because the idea of an interracial relationship still matters somewhere to somebody, it is ultimately much better to explore it than ignore it."

Hurley's remark made sense, she says, "because if you're looking at Lost as a microcosm of society, somebody in that society is going to make note of it. It would be odd if nobody did. It still is an important issue."

Anderson says, "It was perfect that Hurley said it. It was perfect that Jack ignored him."

To him, personally, fans have been positive. "People respond to the humanity of it. People don't stop me to say, 'Oh, my God, you have a black wife.' They say, 'If they didn't let you two get back together, I was going to turn off my television set forever.' That supersedes anything else."

In the NBC sitcom Earl, race is treated with irreverent humor. Earl's ex-wife, Joy, is white and has just married Darnell, who is black. She didn't want her father to find out, fearing he'd be furious. As it turns out, he loves black women — literally.

Greg Garcia, executive producer/creator, says the characters simply fit the situation. "They're calling it like they see it and talking like real people talk."

Contributing: Bill Keveney

There's certainly room for improvement, but I think you're unnecessarily jumping to conclusions based on one American TV show. At the very least, the idea of the producer "risking his career" by casting an interracial couple is just ludicrous.

Fast Forward · 12-17-2007, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

I think you're unnecessarily jumping to conclusions ..... At the very least, the idea of the producer "risking his career" by casting an interracial couple
is just ludicrous.

Personally, I think you're unecessarily jumping to conclusions.

analog · 12-17-2007, 05:23 AM

I agree that basing such an opinion off of not only one random american tv show, but one random episode of one random american tv show, is ludicrous.

I think you're BOTH jumping to conclusions, and you two should fight it out. Here:

mixedmedia · 12-17-2007, 05:32 AM

And since the article SM posted referred to the show Lost, let's not forget the tragic romance of Sayyid (an Iraqi) and Shannon (a beautiful blond American princess).

Fast Forward · 12-17-2007, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

I agree that basing such an opinion off of not only one random american tv show, but one random episode of one random american tv show, is ludicrous.

Don't you think that assuming "the base" might be restricted to "one random episode" is rather jumping to conclusions?

What happened to something called "discussion"? Too cumbersome? Easier to indulge in "conclusion jumping" is it?

The_Jazz · 12-17-2007, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Forward

Don't you think that assuming "the base" might be restricted to "one random episode" is rather jumping to conclusions?

So give us more examples then. Seems pretty simple.

Yesterday I flipped through "Mystery Men" and noticed that William H. Macy's character is married to a Black woman. They had three kids and pretty much just seemed to be a typical suburban family. And that was a movie from a major American movie, godawful it may be.

So I take your single anecdote and counter it with my own. Until you provide more evidence, your argument doesn't hold water.

Ustwo · 12-17-2007, 07:05 AM

While I doubt this was the motivation of a hollywood director, it would have been MORE surprising if his wife wasn't black.

Why?

Because if the character in question is black, and he comes from a world where he is a minority, if their genetics for it are the same as ours then they must segregate as well, otherwise he wouldn't be black in the first place. There is some selection pressure keeping them black, and in this case it would have to be mating.

So maybe it wasn't the directors/casting persons, intention, but its makes sense.

The_Jazz · 12-17-2007, 07:12 AM

Ustwo, I'm not sure that you know who William H. Macy is. He's got blond hair and blue eyes.

The character is question ISN'T black. He's lily white. It seems that everything after "Because if the character in question is black" doesn't make much sense in that regard. The movie has a white man married to a black woman with 3 kids who all love and adore their father in eminently suburban setting.

squeeeb · 12-17-2007, 07:25 AM

The Jazz - i think Ustwo was talking about the stargate episode, not mystery men.

FAST FORWARD - and i take great umbrage with the original post. why are you bashing on stargate? lots of people like it, it is entertaining. you want something more intellectual? read a book. you are talking about television, bubblegum for the eyes. and the really ironic part is, you bash on stargate, but talk about rarely missing "cops"....

Ustwo · 12-17-2007, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeeeb

The Jazz - i think Ustwo was talking about the stargate episode, not mystery men.

Ding ding ding....

The_Jazz · 12-17-2007, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeeeb

The Jazz - i think Ustwo was talking about the stargate episode, not mystery men.

Sorry Ustwo, my bad.

Cynthetiq · 12-17-2007, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeeeb

The Jazz - i think Ustwo was talking about the stargate episode, not mystery men.

FAST FORWARD - and i take great umbrage with the original post. why are you bashing on stargate? lots of people like it, it is entertaining. you want something more intellectual? read a book. you are talking about television, bubblegum for the eyes. and the really ironic part is, you bash on stargate, but talk about rarely missing "cops"....

COPS the bastion of intelligent TV watchers.

JustJess · 12-17-2007, 08:27 AM

Okay, okay - FastForward brought up an interesting subject, but limited (his? her?) focus to one episode of one show, so SM broadened the perspective. Can we go back to that subject now and stop bashing each other? Fer crissakes.

Actually, one of the things I do notice about Boston Legal is how often they mix and match EVERYONE. They have a wide range of colors and weirdness, and seem to care very little if any of it matches. ER has always been awesome about this, and so has Grey's. I enjoy that because as a person, I find lots of people attractive, whatever the particular color they might be. Hey, hot people getting together is hot, no matter what.

TV is always going to be skewed tho... most of Hollywood is far more socially progressive than the rest of the world. The only thing holding them back is fear of pissing off their conservative advertisers. If it weren't for that, I think it'd be a lot more interesting. Of course, there wouldn't be any TV without those advertisers, so it's a mixed curse/blessing.

mixedmedia · 12-17-2007, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJess

Okay, okay - FastForward brought up an interesting subject, but limited (his? her?) focus to one episode of one show, so SM broadened the perspective. Can we go back to that subject now and stop bashing each other? Fer crissakes.

shhhh, must be that time of the month

ratbastid · 12-17-2007, 08:50 AM

I couldn't get any farther than "I love Cops, I hate Stargate". I knew right there I'd find zero common ground with the OP...

roachboy · 12-17-2007, 08:55 AM

so this would be television selling itself as selling a dream of a socially progressive america in the context of which advertisements that sell you commodities as gateways to entire fantasy lifestyles get strung like little beads. different levels of dreaming correspond to different types of shows correspond to different demographics. and you can take them two ways: a show about a crisis unit features one imagined america and so you can say either crisis brings "us" together or you can say that the fact that "we" are together is a crisis and the show just confirms it by showing you crisis after crisis. either way, you sit through the episode segments and between get a series of important commerical announcements that enable you to adjust the fantasy you live through by filling out your fantasy of commodity acquisition so that you can begin the inward preparations for a potential future acquisition of a huge metal cube of a sports utility vehicle, seeing in it something on the order of getting a mullet without the committment--stodgy and paranoid by day while secretly driving over patches of desert and, less often, across the tops of mesas, so that driving becomes performing a interior life of a kind of trans-continental walter mitty, which could be you, yes it could.

i'm still a little thrown by "blue planet"---i think that while i was watching the "deep sea" episode, the announcer told me that i had just discovered a new species in the mariana trench

while sitting on my sofa in chicago

this was coupled with sequences of taken from a second bathysphere looking back at the camera crew sitting in the first bathysphere. no-one mentioned the second bathysphere, but it was implied in a way by the fact that i was sitting on my couch in chicago as i discovered the new species in the mariana trench. there's something suspect about all this.

highthief · 12-17-2007, 09:18 AM

It's funny how in advertising and television in general you seem to see far fewer mixed-race (especially white-black) couples than you ever do in real life. I saw an ad for 9 well, I can't even remember anymore, it may have been for a mobile phone (then again it might have been for deodorant). Anyway, it was pretty European and there was a white guy who picks up a black girl and they end up in the sack together later. I almost fell off my chair to see such a pairing in a mainstream TV advertisement.

Ustwo · 12-17-2007, 09:46 AM

Quote:

In 2005 it is believed that 7% of married couples in the US are interracial.[2] In general, the number of Asian and Hispanic marriages and cohabitations are more than whites and blacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage

So less than 1 in 10 are mixed race and even less than that are black/white.

Its not like its all that common, I'm guessing there is a lot of observer bias in assuming they are common since you NOTICE them unlike the other 20 couples that you didn't notice.

Willravel · 12-17-2007, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Forward

But when I turn on the TV I usually see the last few minutes of the previous program, another American series, “Stargate”. Now that’s a piece of shit strictly for the children of illiterate parents who never went to school. Anyway, last week Teal’c (you know: the guy with a logo imbedded into his forehead) and crew went back to his home planet where he (a black man) is a minority. Low and behold he ran into his distraught wife and child – also black.

That his wife might be anything other than black is something that the American prime-time TV producer would probably not dare risk his career over. Are white Americans afraid that if their daughters see interracial relationships on prime-time TV that they’ll be hell bent on jumping into bed with the first black man they lay their eyes on?

It amazes me that even in their fantasy dreams of the future they envision that in all the worlds (in all the universes) racial segregation will be acceptable by American standards. Tsk! Tsk!

You had me until your example. It's probably the least glaring example of racism I've ever experienced. If you want to talk about racism, look at CBS, ABC, and NBC. If the only black guy on your network is Tracy Morgan, you've got problems.

Speaking directly to Teal'c's situation, Drey'auc (wife) may have been black, but most of his love interests after she died (including Ishta, played by Jolene Lema) have been white.

Edit: I have a BA, my mother has her PhD and my father has his MA-Div and is getting his PhD. I enjoy Stargate SG-1.

Issmmm · 12-17-2007, 10:22 AM

We are so beyond interracial couples in TV and advertising. It's been going on for years. I couldn't say when was the first time I saw it, it's been so long ago.
I personally, a Black man, have been with a number of women of other nationalities, Asian, Spanish, European, Etc. Neither because they were different, but because she was damned sexy. Hopefully they felt the same.

But back to TV. Think back to other shows you've seen. Whenever there was a group of men on a show and only one was Black, he was the smarter more moral one in the group. As far as couplehood, again it's been going on forever. Perhaps there has been a change in the OP's life that's made him/her notice?

highthief · 12-17-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issmmm

We are so beyond interracial couples in TV and advertising. It's been going on for years. I couldn't say when was the first time I saw it, it's been so long ago.

I don't think that's true - I don't watch a lot of network TV so maybe I miss some things, but I do see advertising in many forms of media, not just TV.

There are certain things that still seem taboo - commercials for things like e-harmony, or various introduction or dating lines and sites, being one. If there's a black person in it, they are inevitably introduced to other black people.

mixedmedia · 12-17-2007, 11:12 AM

Going back to Lost, which is on my brain because I've seen quite a bit of it lately (first two seasons)...they don't seem to have much problem with interracial love - Bernard & Rose, Sayyid & Shannon, Sawyer & Ana Lucia - but did anyone else notice how fast they killed Libby off once the relationship with Hurley started to progress?

We may not have many interracial hangups left, but I suspect that the cute thin girl and the morbidly obese guy getting it on in the jungle wouldn't have gone over too well.

/end threadjack

Ustwo · 12-17-2007, 12:12 PM

Perhaps the rarest thing to see in an advertisement is an alarm company where there is a black burglar acting alone. They are always white or if there is a black man he has a white accomplis.

Then today I see an add for a tooth brush, and they are showing their fictional scientists working in some ultra clean lab, all smiles, and they are a white man, asian woman, hispanic man, and black woman. I'm surprised one of them wasn't in a wheelchair.

At any rate I think its safe to say that advertisers are very sensitive to race and go well out of their way to not offend anyone, no matter what. It that means keeping racial couples 'pure' or having only white males criminals, so be it.

Willravel · 12-17-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

... having only white males criminals ....

*Puts on Pryor impression* What they don't tell you in the commercial is that the white man isn't just stealing the TV of the black man, but they're always stealing EVERYTHING from the black man... how we walk, how we talk, our music....

Plan9 · 12-17-2007, 01:07 PM

I'm not racist, I've had sex with all colors of women.

Ustwo · 12-17-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

*Puts on Pryor impression* What they don't tell you in the commercial is that the white man isn't just stealing the TV of the black man, but they're always stealing EVERYTHING from the black man... how we walk, how we talk, our music....

Fo shizzle

Strange Famous · 12-17-2007, 02:47 PM

Richard Pryor was a funny fucking dude

Plan9 · 12-17-2007, 02:48 PM

Yeah, I hear he was black, too.

Shauk · 12-17-2007, 07:06 PM

segregation is the result of "never forget" propaganda ;p /flamesuit on

Plan9 · 12-17-2007, 07:38 PM

Discussions like this always remind me of this cheery jingle:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minor Threat

I'm sorry
For something I didn't do
Somebody lynched somebody
But I didn't know who
You blame me
For slavery
Four hundred years before I was born
Guilty of being white
I'm convicted
Of a racist crime
I've only served
19 years of my life
Guilty of being white

Conversely...

We're all too damned smart to still be limited to seeing skin colors.

telekinetic · 12-17-2007, 07:49 PM

You know, it literally never occurred to me until reading this thread just now that I'm half of an 'inter racial couple'...just a 'couple.'

Come on, people, EVOLVE! Why do you even notice these things!? Calling attention to them is the wrong direction.

Plan9 · 12-17-2007, 07:53 PM

I concur. I want to a find another nice girl that isn't my color and make beautiful brown babies with her.

...

Sadly, I notice these things because I live in a part of society where ignorant dumbasses still drop the "N" word like some secret cult when they're in their safe little redneck basements with their confederate flags and Ruger Mini-14s. It disgusts me. Big problem? They're not mute or sterile.

(sigh)

Racism makes me sad.

squeeeb · 12-17-2007, 10:11 PM

i had a black girlfreind, but i went back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic

......
Come on, people, EVOLVE! Why do you even notice these things!? Calling attention to them is the wrong direction.

yeah, totally correct and i agree 100 percent. but then we miss out on all this discussion....

Fast Forward · 12-18-2007, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

So give us more examples then. Seems pretty simple.

So I take your single anecdote and counter it with my own. Until you provide more evidence, your argument doesn't hold water.

Well, gee, you’ve really put me on the spot, eh? I suppose the many years I lived in the U.S. is irrelevant and my glasses must have been filthy all of those years (and during recent visits) because, you know, I was looking at so many neighbourhoods from California to Maine and from Washington State to Florida and I could have sworn I saw lots of places where blacks lived strictly among other blacks and whites lived strictly among whites. And I was often told about “black neigbourhoods” where a white man dare not enter for risk of his life but it must have been an exagerration. Yeah, I guess that “one episode” of Stargate is all I have as a referrence point.

In any case, I take the segregation of the U.S. "today" as a fact, not a hypothetical possibilty - and my only reason for posting the thread was for my concern for the future, as opposed the American point of view through American “futuristic” TV shows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeeeb

FAST FORWARD - and i take great umbrage with the original post. why are you bashing on stargate? ....

Because I think it sucks and as a citizen of a free country I have the possibility to say what I really think. Is that reply good enough? Thank you.

Ps. I can assure you that I wouldn't take "great umbrage" if you decided to start a thread "bashing" the series "Cops"

. Go ahead. Try it and see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

COPS the bastion of intelligent TV watchers.

Indeed. My IQ level has increased by 17 points since the series started!

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

It's funny how in advertising and television in general you seem to see far fewer mixed-race (especially white-black) couples than you ever do in real life.

Well, over here you will ALMOST NEVER see a black person together with another black, unless it's a family of refugees from Somalia who don't allow mixed relationships.

What I do find interesting (did I say "interesting"?) is that at least 50% of our news commentators on TV are black (or mixed black) women. But I can tell you that black people are way down the percentage of population in my country. What is the message here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

If you want to talk about racism, look at CBS, ABC, and NBC.

That's not possible. I'm not American and I don't live in the U.S. I must content myself with TV series for my "fix" of American culture.

xepherys · 12-18-2007, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Forward

Are white Americans afraid that if their daughters see interracial relationships on prime-time TV that they’ll be hell bent on jumping into bed with the first black man they lay their eyes on?

This is a partially related tangent that I feel fits well with the OPs odd conclusion. Why is it that when people make this statement, the statement is always as is. So these hood-wearing racist white American families don't mind if their cornbread sons jump into bed with the first black girl they lay their eyes on? In fact, in American pop culture, mixed race women are some of the most coveted beauties we have. Or rather, even non-American mixed-race women, generally black/white and black/latina or black/asian are viewed with extremely high beauty currently.

Halle Berry (white mother, black father)
Thandie Newton (Zimbabwean mother, white father)
Rasario Dawson (Puerto Rican, Afro-Cuban, Native American)
Adriana Lima (Swiss, African, Native American)

Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson (African-Canadian, Samoan)
Mark Sinclair "Vin Diesel" Vincent (Italian, African-American) (you'd never know by looking at him, huh?)

At any rate, I honestly don't see it. I've lived almost all 30 years of my life in the Detroit area. The only places where there is REAL segregation is in the the ignorant, black inner-city and the ignorant, white, wealthy neighborhoods. For Joe American? It doesn't really make a difference.

Fast Forward · 12-18-2007, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xepherys

In fact ..... mixed race women are some of the most coveted beauties we have.

An interesting point .... but I think I'll keep my comments on that subject to myself for the time being. I ain't saying nothin'!

highthief · 12-18-2007, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Forward

What I do find interesting (did I say "interesting"?) is that at least 50% of our news commentators on TV are black (or mixed black) women. But I can tell you that black people are way down the percentage of population in my country. What is the message here?

50%? What country are you speaking of?

In Toronto we have a high percentage of black, Asian, etc on TV - but more than 50% of the population was born outside the country, so hardly surprising.

jewels · 12-18-2007, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic

You know, it literally never occurred to me until reading this thread just now that I'm half of an 'inter racial couple'...just a 'couple.'

Come on, people, EVOLVE! Why do you even notice these things!? Calling attention to them is the wrong direction.

Where do you live? I'm in a predominantly liberal area and could not help but always be aware when I was half of a interracial couple. Stares, nasty looks, mumbled comments, where we were seated in certain restaurants ...

When we were alone, we were just a couple. But even liberal and tolerant Americans (both black and white) never let us forget about color when we stepped out the door.

Sadly, a lot of work still needs to be done, and several generations will be required for full evolution to occur.

The_Jazz · 12-18-2007, 05:13 AM

I'm sorry but are we talking about TV or are we on to the state of segragation in America, because those are two VERY different things, Fast Forward. And I think you know that. You tried to demonstrate that America was segregated via Stargate SG-1. A single example is nothing more than a data point; it proves nothing. I think that we've moved past that, so I'm willing to let that drop if you are.

If we're really talking about segregation in the country at large, then I completely agree that there are severe segregation issues. Europe also has it's own set of segregation issues, and there are certainly folks there that are not happy with the progress that's been made, just like there are here.

12-17-2007, 01:19 AM	#1 (permalink)
Fast Forward Banned Location: Tramtária	American Segregation I seldom miss ”Cops” on the TV. I like it the way those big, middle-aged policemen, laden with all of that equipment, run down swift, young crooks with t-shirts and jogging shoes and actually catch them! Fantastic. But when I turn on the TV I usually see the last few minutes of the previous program, another American series, “Stargate”. Now that’s a piece of shit strictly for the children of illiterate parents who never went to school. Anyway, last week Teal’c (you know: the guy with a logo imbedded into his forehead) and crew went back to his home planet where he (a black man) is a minority. Low and behold he ran into his distraught wife and child – also black. That his wife might be anything other than black is something that the American prime-time TV producer would probably not dare risk his career over. Are white Americans afraid that if their daughters see interracial relationships on prime-time TV that they’ll be hell bent on jumping into bed with the first black man they lay their eyes on? It amazes me that even in their fantasy dreams of the future they envision that in all the worlds (in all the universes) racial segregation will be acceptable by American standards. Tsk! Tsk!

12-17-2007, 05:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
analog Banned	I agree that basing such an opinion off of not only one random american tv show, but one random episode of one random american tv show, is ludicrous. I think you're BOTH jumping to conclusions, and you two should fight it out. Here: Last edited by analog; 12-17-2007 at 05:30 AM..

12-17-2007, 05:32 AM	#5 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	And since the article SM posted referred to the show Lost, let's not forget the tragic romance of Sayyid (an Iraqi) and Shannon (a beautiful blond American princess). __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

12-17-2007, 07:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	While I doubt this was the motivation of a hollywood director, it would have been MORE surprising if his wife wasn't black. Why? Because if the character in question is black, and he comes from a world where he is a minority, if their genetics for it are the same as ours then they must segregate as well, otherwise he wouldn't be black in the first place. There is some selection pressure keeping them black, and in this case it would have to be mating. So maybe it wasn't the directors/casting persons, intention, but its makes sense. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-17-2007, 07:12 AM	#9 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Ustwo, I'm not sure that you know who William H. Macy is. He's got blond hair and blue eyes. The character is question ISN'T black. He's lily white. It seems that everything after "Because if the character in question is black" doesn't make much sense in that regard. The movie has a white man married to a black woman with 3 kids who all love and adore their father in eminently suburban setting. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

12-17-2007, 07:25 AM	#10 (permalink)
squeeeb part of the problem Location: hic et ubique	The Jazz - i think Ustwo was talking about the stargate episode, not mystery men. FAST FORWARD - and i take great umbrage with the original post. why are you bashing on stargate? lots of people like it, it is entertaining. you want something more intellectual? read a book. you are talking about television, bubblegum for the eyes. and the really ironic part is, you bash on stargate, but talk about rarely missing "cops".... __________________ onward to mayhem!

12-17-2007, 08:27 AM	#14 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Okay, okay - FastForward brought up an interesting subject, but limited (his? her?) focus to one episode of one show, so SM broadened the perspective. Can we go back to that subject now and stop bashing each other? Fer crissakes. Actually, one of the things I do notice about Boston Legal is how often they mix and match EVERYONE. They have a wide range of colors and weirdness, and seem to care very little if any of it matches. ER has always been awesome about this, and so has Grey's. I enjoy that because as a person, I find lots of people attractive, whatever the particular color they might be. Hey, hot people getting together is hot, no matter what. TV is always going to be skewed tho... most of Hollywood is far more socially progressive than the rest of the world. The only thing holding them back is fear of pissing off their conservative advertisers. If it weren't for that, I think it'd be a lot more interesting. Of course, there wouldn't be any TV without those advertisers, so it's a mixed curse/blessing. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

12-17-2007, 08:50 AM	#16 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I couldn't get any farther than "I love Cops, I hate Stargate". I knew right there I'd find zero common ground with the OP...

12-17-2007, 08:55 AM	#17 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	so this would be television selling itself as selling a dream of a socially progressive america in the context of which advertisements that sell you commodities as gateways to entire fantasy lifestyles get strung like little beads. different levels of dreaming correspond to different types of shows correspond to different demographics. and you can take them two ways: a show about a crisis unit features one imagined america and so you can say either crisis brings "us" together or you can say that the fact that "we" are together is a crisis and the show just confirms it by showing you crisis after crisis. either way, you sit through the episode segments and between get a series of important commerical announcements that enable you to adjust the fantasy you live through by filling out your fantasy of commodity acquisition so that you can begin the inward preparations for a potential future acquisition of a huge metal cube of a sports utility vehicle, seeing in it something on the order of getting a mullet without the committment--stodgy and paranoid by day while secretly driving over patches of desert and, less often, across the tops of mesas, so that driving becomes performing a interior life of a kind of trans-continental walter mitty, which could be you, yes it could. i'm still a little thrown by "blue planet"---i think that while i was watching the "deep sea" episode, the announcer told me that i had just discovered a new species in the mariana trench while sitting on my sofa in chicago this was coupled with sequences of taken from a second bathysphere looking back at the camera crew sitting in the first bathysphere. no-one mentioned the second bathysphere, but it was implied in a way by the fact that i was sitting on my couch in chicago as i discovered the new species in the mariana trench. there's something suspect about all this. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

12-17-2007, 09:18 AM	#18 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	It's funny how in advertising and television in general you seem to see far fewer mixed-race (especially white-black) couples than you ever do in real life. I saw an ad for 9 well, I can't even remember anymore, it may have been for a mobile phone (then again it might have been for deodorant). Anyway, it was pretty European and there was a white guy who picks up a black girl and they end up in the sack together later. I almost fell off my chair to see such a pairing in a mainstream TV advertisement. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

12-17-2007, 10:22 AM	#21 (permalink)
Issmmm Upright	We are so beyond interracial couples in TV and advertising. It's been going on for years. I couldn't say when was the first time I saw it, it's been so long ago. I personally, a Black man, have been with a number of women of other nationalities, Asian, Spanish, European, Etc. Neither because they were different, but because she was damned sexy. Hopefully they felt the same. But back to TV. Think back to other shows you've seen. Whenever there was a group of men on a show and only one was Black, he was the smarter more moral one in the group. As far as couplehood, again it's been going on forever. Perhaps there has been a change in the OP's life that's made him/her notice?

12-17-2007, 11:12 AM	#23 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	Going back to Lost, which is on my brain because I've seen quite a bit of it lately (first two seasons)...they don't seem to have much problem with interracial love - Bernard & Rose, Sayyid & Shannon, Sawyer & Ana Lucia - but did anyone else notice how fast they killed Libby off once the relationship with Hurley started to progress? We may not have many interracial hangups left, but I suspect that the cute thin girl and the morbidly obese guy getting it on in the jungle wouldn't have gone over too well. /end threadjack __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

12-17-2007, 12:12 PM	#24 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Perhaps the rarest thing to see in an advertisement is an alarm company where there is a black burglar acting alone. They are always white or if there is a black man he has a white accomplis. Then today I see an add for a tooth brush, and they are showing their fictional scientists working in some ultra clean lab, all smiles, and they are a white man, asian woman, hispanic man, and black woman. I'm surprised one of them wasn't in a wheelchair. At any rate I think its safe to say that advertisers are very sensitive to race and go well out of their way to not offend anyone, no matter what. It that means keeping racial couples 'pure' or having only white males criminals, so be it. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-17-2007, 01:07 PM	#26 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	I'm not racist, I've had sex with all colors of women. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

12-17-2007, 02:47 PM	#28 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Richard Pryor was a funny fucking dude __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

12-17-2007, 02:48 PM	#29 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Yeah, I hear he was black, too. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

12-17-2007, 07:06 PM	#30 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	segregation is the result of "never forget" propaganda ;p /flamesuit on

12-17-2007, 07:49 PM	#32 (permalink)
telekinetic zomgomgomgomgomgomg Location: Fauxenix, Azerona	You know, it literally never occurred to me until reading this thread just now that I'm half of an 'inter racial couple'...just a 'couple.' Come on, people, EVOLVE! Why do you even notice these things!? Calling attention to them is the wrong direction. __________________ twisted no more

12-17-2007, 07:53 PM	#33 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	I concur. I want to a find another nice girl that isn't my color and make beautiful brown babies with her. ... Sadly, I notice these things because I live in a part of society where ignorant dumbasses still drop the "N" word like some secret cult when they're in their safe little redneck basements with their confederate flags and Ruger Mini-14s. It disgusts me. Big problem? They're not mute or sterile. (sigh) Racism makes me sad. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

12-18-2007, 05:13 AM	#40 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	I'm sorry but are we talking about TV or are we on to the state of segragation in America, because those are two VERY different things, Fast Forward. And I think you know that. You tried to demonstrate that America was segregated via Stargate SG-1. A single example is nothing more than a data point; it proves nothing. I think that we've moved past that, so I'm willing to let that drop if you are. If we're really talking about segregation in the country at large, then I completely agree that there are severe segregation issues. Europe also has it's own set of segregation issues, and there are certainly folks there that are not happy with the progress that's been made, just like there are here. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo