Prince

I want to talk about marriage. People change, of course, we don’t stay the same. But how do you know when those changes are such that could become problematic later on? I have always heard about how marriage is a lot of work (and yes, it is) and how many marriages end up in trouble because people miss the warning signs, and then it’s too late. But I don't know, I'm in the middle of my first semester of college and the workload is killing me, so I don't know what's a real concern and what's just a side-product of the overwhelming stress. Hence this post.

My wife's been spending a lot of time going out with her co-workers after work. She went out Saturday night and then to a party last night, didn't get home until 1:30am, even though she has to get up at 7. She goes out drinking after work about 3 or 4 times each week. I joined her on Saturday since her co-workers have been trying to get me to come, but I didn't enjoy myself. They're friendly enough, but I don't drink, I hate cigarette smoke, and don't dig the bar atmosphere in general. I'd rather sit in a nice restaurant and discuss Bowie or sociology or the Marburg virus or something.

At one point she asked if I were to mind if she smoked. I told her it was her call, although that wasn't really an answer; I felt that she should know by now. We've discussed that before - as much as I adore this woman, I don't think there is any way we could live together if she picked up smoking as a habit since the smell of tobacco is one of my migraine triggers. I didn’t want to be that guy who tells or tries to tell his wife what she should do with her life. I know she has smoked before when she’s been out drinking, hell she may do it every time for all I know. But honestly, I am glad she waited at least until after I had left.

It’s not just the smoking that bothers me. Sitting next to her at a bar was like sitting next to a stranger you sort of know, but not really. I left before she did, and I didn’t really even want to kiss her on my way out, it was a bit like kissing someone you barely know. Ever since she started going out with her co-workers, she has changed somewhat. I remember waking up one night at 2:30 in the morning and she still had not come home. I am generally ok with her going out with her friends because she works her ass off and if something helps her chill and unwind, then great, I am glad. I also know she hasn’t had many friends and it’s probably a very liberating experience for her. But boy, was I pissed. There was a part of me that admittedly felt like a married woman has no business being out drinking at 2:30 in the morning when she has to get up at 7, especially since she had called me earlier in the evening at around 7 saying she was going out but wouldn’t be long, just a couple of hours. Much of my anger was just due to worry, but still.

Since she started going out with her friends, some aspects of her personality and, admittedly, some aspects of our relationship have changed a bit. She had this small tattoo on her lower back that she got while she was in college, but the tattoo shop had messed it up. She got it covered at a local tattoo place with a much bigger one… The new one is about the size of my hand, and my hands aren’t small by any stretch of the imagination. I don’t know, just seemed unexpected. The old one she had was her own design and had symbolic meaning to it; this one apparently, according to her, does not, it’s just a design she picked. I can’t tell what it looks like, if anything. But it’s her skin and while I don’t generally care for tattoos, it’s not like it’s visible unless she’s not wearing a shirt. If she asks, I say “it’s okay”, I kind of like it, but perhaps if it weren’t for all this other stuff, I’d like it better.

For years now, I have been the traditional husband who wants sex once in the morning and twice in the afternoon. But suddenly the tables have turned; she is considerably more aggressive sexually and more interested in trying new things. Meanwhile, I took on more course hours for my first semester than I should have and there aren’t enough hours in the day for me to stay on top of all my studies and I am under consistent stress. I have to take propranolol now to keep my hypertension in control thanks to it. Double that with the fact that I prefer to have sex with someone who is sober, and I am suddenly the one who has the non-stop headache. And the stuff she wants to try, I don’t know where she’s picking it up from. Her imagination? Maybe. Her friends? Suppose so, I guess. Seems more graphic than Americans usually get in their bar conversations, but I don’t know much about modern girl culture. Porn? Doubtful, she doesn’t watch porn that I know of. God, I sound so old. So…square.

I don’t know. Maybe I am not looking at this the right way. But last night she commented several times on how hot the waitress was; personally I didn’t think she was hot, but then again I don’t dig the skinny blonde look. Let me put it this way: if she were to suggest a ménage a trois I would not be totally surprised. I’d hit the roof most likely, but I wouldn’t necessarily feel like it was coming from the left field. And this is a girl who'd get upset if I slapped her ass in public. That is how out of touch I feel with her non-home persona.

I don’t think I have a non-home persona, and perhaps that is my problem. I haven’t made any friends in college thus far, and probably won’t make any easily since I don’t really have anything in common with anyone, and don’t much care for beer or drinking in general. So I am quite happy to spend time at home; in fact, I relish it. She has always gotten antsy if she had to stay in the house all day long on her days off. She needs to get out and see people. I understand that. I think it’s cool, in general.

I brought up her drinking and a-bit-too-often bar hopping a week or two ago, and she said we could dedicate Friday and Saturday evenings for doing “together stuff” and she’d go out on Sunday evenings with her co-workers. That, of course, didn’t stick; as always, she called me after work last night (as mentioned earlier) to tell me she was going out. I figured that’s just as well, why break the routine.

The thing is, we barely see each other as is. She is never off on the weekends. Most days, I have to leave for class at 6:45 in the morning. I can’t stay up late because of that. So unless she gets home at a reasonable hour, I don’t see her at all that day. It is hard for me to feel inspired, sexually, with someone I only get to see if they decide not to go out that evening. For a while I stayed up late in the hope of her coming her and we could watch something and have a late dinner or just, I dunno, walk the dogs. I don’t bother anymore – the likelihood is that it doesn’t happen so I’d rather not put myself through the constant disappointment.

I’m sure I’m not a jewel to be with either. I don’t do enough around here, I come home after class in the afternoon, and generally speaking take 5-6 hours to study and do my exhausting math homework. So I am sure I am not much company. And when I have time I can use for something else, I prefer to watch a movie or something as opposed to going out with her friends. I took her out to a surprise picnic a week or so ago. That's the stuff I like, the simple things. But for her and her friends, it seems like all they do is drink. And I just don’t understand that at all. It’s just so not me. I don’t understand why they all, my wife included, seem to have this need to have alcohol present for them to enjoy one another’s company. Can’t they go bowling or something instead? Do something that doesn’t require poisoning your brain. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an absolutist nor do I hate alcohol necessarily, I just think it is healthy to sometimes have fun without it.

The thing is, I don’t know as much about what makes marriage work as you do. I don’t know what’s a warning sign and what’s just a natural part of people changing. I know we change and we grow, and that we are supposed to grow together. But if part of that growing means that we proceed to have so very little in common, where does that lead us? I don't think that my dislike of drinking and the bar scene is due to my getting old (I am 30, she's 27), this is how I have always been. And she, as well - that was one of the things I fell in love with her for. She'd rather go for a walk in a park than sit in a bar.

I know you're going to tell me that I need to talk to her, not you. And you'd be right; it is just that, before I do that, I need to figure out whether I am blowing this out of proportion and being the traditional overbearing control-freak asshole husband, or whether I am right in being concerned. Because I don't know anymore. I miss feeling significant, I guess. I want to change something in this scenario, but I don't think there is much I can do. I have told her previously that the frequency of the drinking bothers me. She admitted that it is tiring for her to go out so often, yet she hasn't changed that. It seems to me that she has absolutely no willpower to say no to her co-workers. She's gone out a few times after telling me she doesn't really feel like it or is too tired, but she goes anyway.

I know she would like me to go with, but that whole booze scene is not who I am, and I have a really lousy time the last time I went. Watching people drown their faces in margaritas while you sip your Dr. Pepper is not as hot as it sounds.

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Plan9

You're not blowing it out of proportion at all. Hell, look at the structure of this post.

I'd have to consult an attorney to write something this tight.

Factors:

- Her being out all the time isn't healthy for her life or relationships
- Your college slammin' occupies a lot of your mental counterspace
- Sudden new sex desires are mildly confusing
- Her lack of acknowledging suggested "Prince time"

You'll get this straightened out, man. Talk time is coming.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

highthief

Seen it all before and it's not good.

Your relationship is in serious trouble if for no other reason than neither of you are happy. Until the underlying cause of this is addressed, she'll continue to drink, smoke and ogle waitresses without you, and you'll continue to be in a "woe is me" mode.

Either you two need to get on the same page or you're in for misery.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Slims

What are your ages?

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

abaya

Greg700--he's 30, she's 27 (it's in his post).

Prince, as a woman, I find your situation unacceptable. You're not being a "paranoid control-freak husband"... you're being human. Red flags everywhere. I'd say to talk to your wife, and if things don't change this time (or if she doesn't take your feelings seriously), get a marriage counselor and get yourselves in there. That is some seriously unhealthy behavior... I don't know how she can possible think it's okay to be doing that, especially if you've said you don't like it in the past.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Ustwo

Time for some Ustwo advice.

First, welcome to growing up, both of you. Few people under 30 get it, and you guys are there/approaching it, you figure out what you like and what you really ARE after this point. No one younger really believes it, but ask them after.

So you are in a quiet more introspective place and shes in a TOGA TOGA place. You have a lot of extra work, and just chilling seems like fun, she is most likely bored at work and want to feel 'alive'.

These life styles are NOT compatible long term, and you know this otherwise you wouldn't be posting in the first place.

She wants to do those things she hasn't and now that shes a bit older than 'kid' her inhibitions are going. Yes I think she wants a threesome, girls don't talk about how hot other women are to their spouses unless thats on their mind. The fact that shes the aggressive on in bed isn't a good sign for you either if you are unwilling to go along.

Shes trying to get more out of life which seems pretty boring I'd guess with you doing so much schooling and being in her view 'boring'.

Now for my advice. Go for the ride and be part of her getting this out of her system or I'd think you have a good chance of her getting this out of her system with someone else. They want you to be a part of this, so rather then being a wet rag, go and have a little fun with stupid conversation and a few drinks. I agree cigarette smoke sucks, but you can survive. If you wife was sick and in the hospital you wouldn't abandon her, well while shes not 'sick' shes feeling some needs that you need to attend to even if its not fun for you.

Be open yourself to some new experiences, and if she wants a threesome with another woman, count your blessings. Otherwise you might find yourself wondering why she didn't come home one night when lust and alcohol played a part in her 'going for it' with some other guy/couple/whatever.

Now from her, you need to get some concessions as well. Schooling is important, and you need to get a compromise where shes not going out on a constant basis. Get her to limit it to Friday/Saturday when you can join, and if she just go out on say a Monday when you have a test to study for get her to PROMISE to be home by a set time.

I know I trust my wife explicitly and what I don't trust are other people. As such thats how I would approach this, you are worried about her not that you want to control her.

Finally as for the alcohol, I hear you brother, but I think we are in a minority. I can do crazy uninhibited stuff completely sober, in fact I usually do, but a lot of people seem to need it almost as an excuse to unwind. Many of these people are pretty much functional alcoholics, which seems to work for them, but I have no need for. 'I was drunk' is a great excuse in the minds of a lot of people, so sure I got naked in the hot tub but 'I was drunk', that sort of thing.

If you do this right, this could be a great time for you, but always make sure your together fun time is greater than your apart time. You are currently drifting apart, its time to save it.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Cynosure

How young were you two when you got married?

Sounds to me like, after years (how many?) of marriage, your wife wants to sew some wild oats (again? I mean, did she ever, in her younger days?). Now, that might not include sexual infidelity. Then again, it might. Eventually (if not already). She's certainly hanging out, a lot, in a place where she is likely to be enticed by that sort of thing. (BTW: How many of these friends/co-workers of your wife are single? Any of them recently separated or divorced?)

Myself, I think a married person going out with his or her co-workers and/or friends, to a bar, is okay on occasion. But when it gets to be 3-4 times a week? That's so not okay.

Oh, and your wife isn't becoming a stranger to you, so much as she's showing a facet of herself that you never saw before (or never chose to see).

One more observation: Your wife is an extrovert, right? And are you an introvert?

Plan9

Man, I can't wait until I click over into my thirties and life suddenly makes perfect sense like a Mastercard commercial.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Ustwo

Well some never do get it, good luck

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

The_Jazz

Its an amazing day, really. You wake up, have some Geritol, feel the sudden urge to buy a station wagon, start a 401k and mow the lawn in dark socks and sandals. And you can see all in perfect clarity.

Prince, it sounds like you've got some issues to work through with your wife. I'd like to suggest that you cut and paste it into a document for her, and have her read it. If nothing else, she should get a more direct idea of your feelings without any unconcious self-editing you may be doing.

It take two people to make a relationship work. If one of them refuses to do their part, the other suffers. Perhaps she just needs a reminder.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Prince

Thank you for your replies. I appreciate any and all advice.

Ustwo - I hear you about going with her, but, I gotta get up at 5:45 am just so I can make it to class on time... I don't think she would limit her going out to the weekends. I think it would work out a couple of times but I think in the long-term her co-workers would start seeing me as a bit of an ass; I'm not really talkative in booze-enriched company, I tend to mostly stare at the band and count the minutes. Although I guess I don't really care much about what they think...

She was about 23, I was around 26. We got married 4 and a half years ago. It's hard to say whether she got to sew her wild oats in her college days. She certainly drank and I think smoked some pot, and did shrooms on occasion - shit that I'd never do without a gun to my head - but she wasn't active sexually.

They're all single, which probably is why they spend so much time in the bar. There was a married couple that we actually both liked hanging around, but they moved out of town. There was still booze involved on every occasion but at least they were nice people, with kids and stuff, so they didn't do the bar scene either.

I wouldn't call her an extrovert per se, but I am far more introverted. I like company and conversation when it interests me. As in, I like to talk to people who have more to contribute than "damn that bitch has a great ass". My wife was always the same way, which is why this all confuses me.

Oh, and that couple we befriended that moved out of town... She's going out of town soon for an overnight stay at their place to see the wife (they were co-workers and good friends). Some other co-workers are going too, to booze it up of course. Am I excited? Fuck no. I'll be in class.

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Who is John Galt?

Daniel_

Your story sounds very very much like mine.

Mine ended in her banging a bloke she met online and me kicking her out.

Hope yours doesn't...

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╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
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Ustwo

It doesn't matter what her single co-workers think, it does matter what your wife thinks. You really REALLY need to communicate to her what you are feeling/thinking here, asap.

This to me has big ugly red flags attached. Under the circumstances is a recipe for a little extramarital sex.

I hope it all works out, but you seem set in your desires, her in hers, and at best I see a major fight in your future, at worst I see you parting ways.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

intecel

That sounds like it's going down a bit like how it went down with my girlfriend, and I don't feel like explaining the whole situation right this second, but here's the end result:

She cheated on me.
She ended up pregnant (not sure who's).
She got an abortion (probably so I'd never find out who's).

I stayed with her, she quit her job, she cut all ties with the other guy, etc (her decision, not mine).

I think at this point, I have no real emotional ties to my girlfriend any more. It's more of a mutual sex buddy / friend type thing at this point. Anyways, I don't want anything serious right now since I'm a full time student (and work full time) and really don't care to try to meet someone who understands that I will not be there for them 90% of the time with my busy life, so it works out well for me.

Hell, we just brought home a girl younger than us and had a 3some on Saturday night, and there wasn't a single thing out of the normal afterwards (we watched a Heroes marathon on Sunday ).

I went a little longer with this post than I had to...

actinic

Cripes Prince...sounds like my experience when I was in 3rd year 2nd semester of uni. While I was nose deep in papers and she started a new job the September before. We pretty much relied on each other for social "to do's" until all I was doing was writing papers and studying.

A little background info:

At the time I was 27 and she was 30. We are both introverts but she was more so than I. I was in for my 2nd degree and her and her co-workers as far as I know had minimal exposure to post secondary education. Not that it mattered but their social functions were pretty much drunkfests. They start out fun but they get pretty stupid after 11pm and wasn't as much fun compared to when it started.

She started hanging out w/friends from work and coming home late. Since it was an hour drive one way, when winter snow hit she started crashing at one of her co-workers. No big deal I thought. I trust her and she's starting to do things independently of me...good on her...so I thought.

Things were going so well the last year of our upcoming 6 year relationship that I decided that after my exams, it was time to pop the Q in the month of Feb. Got the ring and after finishing writing 3 exams in 2 days and two more the day after I get the, "We need to talk..."

After asking her if it can wait until after exams (two days later) to talk about this. It was quite a weight on her mind that she kept insisting that we talk that night. Needless to say, we, rather she ended up saying that she loved me but NOT in love w/me.

Me: Ooooo K...can we deal with it after my exams?

What seemed to be a "blossoming" for her turned out to be my worst nightmare. The person she crashed at she had been boning since Christmas. She felt sorry for him as his 3rd wife passed away from cancer the month that she started work there.

In a nutshell...have the talk NOW before your exams start. You are seeing the warning signals...nip it in the bud before it REALLY gets out of hand. I barely passed my last 2 exams going through all that BS and come to think of it, it was quite selfish of her jeopardizing my last two courses with that bombshell.

Best of luck and don't let it F-up your academic standing.

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Drugs lead nowhere...but it's the scenic route

Plan9

I owe you a beer.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

ShaniFaye

Its funny...when I turned 30 its like a light switch went on and I suddenly saw no point in every single get together involving alcohol, I dumped many a friend because they just couldnt handle getting together for dinner and shooting the shit (or going bowling without massive amounts of beer)

I face the same situation with Dave's friends now, most of whom are in their lat 20's to early 30's. We hardly see them much because they (single or no) still believe that getting together on a weekend HAS to involve how much alcohol they can consume and staying up/out til 3 or 4 in the morning.

Married people hanging with single people is really not that much fun, single people have a totally different mindset about "whats fun" than married people do (at least in the circles of people I know) They simply have no one to be accountable to. Instead of me thinking its fun, they appear to me to be nothing but a bunch of drunks that think a good time can only be had when drinking is involved (Im NOT against drinking....I do drink, but good lord knows I'd rather make a pan of lasagna for friends and sit around eating it watching some version of I love the 70's 80's or 90 on VH1 lol)

We had an anniversary party at our house last nite....I had not really intended on drinking other than the champagne I bought for a toast...enuff for one glass each person...but Dave mixed up our new absinthe for people and they decided they didnt like it so I ended up drinking 3 cups of it so it wouldnt go to waste. This is no lie....I quit drinking it at 630 pm, when I woke up at 5 I still felt drunk...this, to me is NOT fun....It was a hell of a day at work.

I know this is rambling, and I know Im not giving you any advice, I have none to give because I have learned in the last two years that some people think they have to be hell bent on keeping up with their friends and ruining their livers as a group thing. I just wanted you to know that I DO totally understand where you're coming from and how you think (well cept for the smoking and tats, cause both are part of my life lol)

Tell her how you feel....tell her how utterly ridiculous she is making herself look....ask her why she's trying SO hard to not to appear married.

I feel for you I really really do.....

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Ustwo

You know, thats really an excellent observation and an excellent question.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

captobvious

Been there, done that. As the others who have also been through this have said, there are huge red flags everywhere, and it doesn't sound like either of you are happy. Did you guys ever break up or have a break while you were dating?

I'd be careful with making statements like this to her:

I said similar things to my girl at the time, and it just made her feel like she was being judged. When I got upset because she was spending so much time with her coworkers, she just felt like I was trying to control her. I told her how I felt, but unfortunately, my story ends the same as the others. We broke up.

dirtyrascal7

I agree with this. Shani's suggestion makes a lot of sense to us on the outside looking in... and that's exactly why it's probably a bad idea. Trying to use logic in this situation is like shooting a BB gun at a polar bear, it will only piss her off and will do nothing to slow her down or stop her.

Prince, when approaching her about all this... which I agree you NEED to do... you must focus on how she FEELS. That is what she will respond to and it is the only thing that she will focus on. No matter how sound or reasonable your arguments are, if they make her feel bad or like she's being judged... she'll shut you off and things will go downhill very quickly.

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"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

tecoyah

....Uh.....well....uh.....shit!

Listen to Ustwo, he's absolutely right

*tecoyah washes his mouth out with soap*

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Redlemon

To continue this thought: there's a "magic sentence" that I learned along the way. You need to be able to complete it before you talk to her.

"When you ____________, I feel _____________, because I need ___________, and therefore I would like __________."

I've found that when I can't complete this sentence, the issue is still confused in my own mind, and therefore I'm not in a position to confront someone else's actions.

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

LadySin

All I am going to say is you need to talk to her NOW. BEFORE she goes out of town with her drinking buddies. I mean listen to yourself. This is eating you up. DO something about it before it ends your marriage. Quit writing to us on here, and talk to HER. And if your next post is "I didn't talk to her yet, but she went out of town with her drinking buddies, cheated, and called to say she isn't coming home" I will have no sympathy for you.

abaya

Slightly off topic, but Redlemon, thank you for this contribution. I must admit, I have always been a firm believer in the "When you ___, I feel _______" statement... but have never learned of the next two bits. Very helpful addition, at least for me personally... thanks again.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

kutulu

I had a similar situation when I was in school. I was constantly working/doing school stuff so she started going out to bars a lot with her friends. I got butthurt at times but we're doing fine now. Looking back, I wish I had been more involved in going out with them and enjoying myself more. I deserved it at the time and now we have kids so we are stuck at home all the time now.

First of all, are you working? You said you have class from early morning to the afternoon and homework for the rest of the day. How many credit hours are you taking? It must be a lot if all you can do is school. I took 12 credit hours (engineering) and I had class in the morning, work in the evening and homework in between. I was still able to find time to socialize with my gf (wife now). If you have such a stressful workload, maybe you should consider dropping a class or two. As a related note, the degree is just a piece of paper. Keep a reasonable GPA but in the end you don't need a perfect record. Relax and let yourself have some fun.

Second, have you thought about it from her perspective? It sounds like she's supporting you through college and doesn't get much of a chance for quality time with you because of your schedule. So to fill the void, she's found new friends to hang out with. Maybe you need to be more active in HER life rather than trying to force her into a little box.

Prince

I'm taking 15 hours. It's the remedial math (I suck horribly at math) that's the hardest, and the constant research and paper-writing for Freshman Comp (I'm not a native English speaker so it takes time for me). I wouldn't stress myself out as much if I didn't need as close to a 4.0 as possible. The local nursing school which I am set on usually only takes in people with a 3.9-4.0 GPA. Anything lower than 3.6 doesn't stand a chance.

I have thought about it. The thing is, I get so little time to do anything, that I'd like to do something that helps me relax. Sitting in a bar does the opposite, it just pisses me off. I watch her co-workers drink and talk about waitresses' asses and I can't help but think that they're fucking losers, the lot of them. I don't enjoy that booze-filled atmosphere, and I am not very good at hiding it, so I don't force myself upon their company.

To more precise: it isn't her hanging out a lot with her friends that bothers me as much as the constant consuming of alcohol, and the changes in her personality that come with it. If she went to bowling or playing chess four times a week, I wouldn't be complaining. It's the drinking that bothers me, especially since she drinks whether she's out with her friends or in the house with me.

I've suggested alternate hobbies, from ballroom dancing to geocaching, from badminton to hiking. These are things I would find relaxing and interesting, but so far we haven't managed to make anything materialize out of that.

__________________
Who is John Galt?

telekinetic

I sympathize, and it's terribly hard. I had a similar situation early in my engagement, and I nipped that shit in the bud immediately and completely. We were in premarital counselling at the time, and our counselor fully supported how I handled the situation, and my wife (though grumpy at the time) now approves of how I handled it.

Because my situation was different, it may not apply to yours, but in mine, I told her that her getting drunk with her old single friends (the girls of which were constantly just trying to get laid, and some of the guys she'd hooked up with or made out with on various occasions before we were together) without me had to end completely and immediately or the relationship couldn't continue. She wasn't single, and she needed to stop acting like she was, unless she wanted to be.

People are so afraid of "ultimatums," but in my mind, is perfectly healthy to set guidelines for what is and is not acceptable in a relationship, and enforce those. Her voluntarily and repeatedly putting in herself in a situation where she could (and had been in the past) be taken advantage of was unacceptable to me, and if she wanted to continue it, she was welcome to, but she was going to continue it without me.

If you are being straight with us (and I'm not trying to imply dishonesty, just saying if we are getting the whole story), then it sounds like your relationship is no longer more important in her life than her drinking.

If you have communicated with her and if she understands your feelings to the point where she is promising to change and failing to follow through, this needs to be taken care of immediately.

Not to be blunt, but getting drunk in bars and not coming home is for single people. I did that when I was in a previous relationship a couple times, and you know what? Every time I got drunk and didn't come home I was in someone else's bed.

Regardless of the lipservice she's paying you, what she's really saying is "I know you don't want me to put myself in a postion where it would be easy for me to be unfaithful, or where I could be taken advantage of, but having fun is more important than our marriage, I want to have fun, and am going to continue to do so."

I am not being judgemental, so just make sure that you can self evaluate and come to a conclusion different from the one you're presenting: If you have no common hobbies, no common interests, spend no time together, don't communicate, and have deterioriating mutual respect, you are in for a rough ride.

Good luck.

Prince

I hear ya.

I think a lot of my perspective is peppered with anger, so I'm not surprised if I am painting a picture in which there seems to be precious little reason for us to have even gotten together.

I think our problem is time management more than anything... I can't really offer her an alternative to her nights out, since I am done for by the time she gets off. That just leaves her days off, which is certainly a start.

We had a long talk last night, but I'm not sure if we got anywhere yet.

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Who is John Galt?

World's King

You're jealous.


It's that simple.

Get off your ass. Meet new people. Drink. Party. Come home after she does. Have drunken sex at 4am in the kitchen.


My girl and I had this same problem. She was mad at me for goin' out all the time. Which I had been doin' since way before she met me. She kept threating me say, "How would you feel if I went out all the time?" And I would say, "Go. No one is stopping you."

So she started hangin with a few people from work. Goin' to parties, out to dinner, movies, clubs, whatever... And she'd come home. Either I'd already be home cause I didn't go out or I'd be out as well.



As it breaks down... If she wants to act like she's a 21yr old whore just because 'she had a hard day at work,' then there is no reason you can't do the same.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

xxxafterglow

Hey Prince, I went through something similar (being on both ends)...

The scheduling is key - see if you can try again at allocating time with each other and a night where she can go out and party.

You don't have to go hang out with her friends - it's no fun being around drunk people when you're sober anyway. For the nights that she goes out, see if you can arrange to have dinner/movie night with a friend. That way, you won't be sitting there waiting for her to get home (I hate that feeling). It will also give her the signal that you have your own life too and that your time and attention can go to someone other than her (meaning a friend, not implying cheating or anything here).

There are lines that you can draw. Because you're married, you do get a little bit of a say in what she does. I don't think it's unreasonable to refuse sex if she comes home pawing at you (my boyfriend used to do this after a night of drinking w/ the co-workers).

Otherwise, you should trust her until she proves untrustworthy. By the way, lots of girls make flippant comments that a waitress/coat girl/receptionist/Maria Bartiromo is hot. That doesn't mean they want to jump in the sack with her. I think that threesome comment kind of got carried away on this thread, this is tfp after all!

Oh yes, and this is what I feel is the key to fixing this - get new friends. Get some friends that are couples or maybe a bit chiller than her co-workers. You'll have people to socialize with and bonus if they turn into really deep friendships. Take the initiative and go make some friends, hang out with them, and invite her along.

It may sound a little passive-aggressive but it works. If she knows that you are having a great time with your friends - nice dinner, good discussion, fishing weekends, etc., inside jokes - she will get jealous that you are having fun without her and enjoying better company than she is.

It sounds like she's bored but it's a phase. People like their co-workers but they don't LOVE their co-workers. And if she needs to get blitzed to have a good time with them I'm guessing it'll get old pretty fast.

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Uh huh her.

Cyborg Ninja

You seem like a nice guy, Prince. You see her life going downhill and you want to help her, and you're careful not to trip over any wires while at it. When I read your first post, I first thought that the two of you were in your early 20s. I'm surprised that someone of her age would think that going out drinking every night is OK. It's not, and especially so if you're married.

I don't blame you for not wanting to go to the bars with her. Contrary to what another user said - she's the one who's trying to get you to conform to her views of entertainment, not the other way around. There are so many other things that you would be willing to do, but all she wants to do is hit the bars. Many people that are into the bar scene just lack intelligence and sophistication, but in her case, I think it's more like that she wants to escape her home life and I'm sorry to say, but she has mostly likely been cheating on you. There are so many red flags in your post, and the heightened sexual aggression and experimentation screams "I've been having one-night stands and need more."

I know you care about her a lot, but I don't think this relationship will work out. She has drifted away from you. In a few years, she might grow up and be ready to settle down, but you deserve better than this. You're only going to be miserable if you stay with her, and it's going to get worse before it gets better, if it ever does.

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