To be or not to be...a citizen. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Prince · 07-16-2007, 08:39 AM

I have been living in the States for many years now, happily married, working, paying taxes. Starting school this fall to work towards my BSN.

When I originally moved into the States from Europe and got married with a nice big-titted Texan girl, I always somehow figured that some years down the road I would begin a naturalization process to become a United States citizen. Instead of always checking that "permanent resident/alien" check box in every form I ever fill out, which always left me feeling like I was getting on the mental short bus every time.

But now that I have been looking into it, there is something about the oath of allegiance that troubles me. And while giving an "oath" its due consideration and weight is considered somewhat old school in this day and age, I do not think that I can in good conscience state something which I do not believe.

The oath of allegiance goes as follows:

Quote:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

I know what you're thinking, and no, it's not the "God" bit. I am on the fence about the existence of the Vengeful Lord Almighty, but I wouldn't go through the trouble of getting that part omitted.

And I do believe in the values set forth in the Constitution. I feel allegiance to the country, and its laws, and I feel like I am a good person, contributing to the community is a constructive way when I can.

The issue I take is with the part that states:

Quote:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen

My native country, Finland, supports dual citizenship. They recognize that a person may be a citizen in another nation without losing their Finnish citizenship and the rights and responsibilities that go with it. I don't know if this is true, but it does not seem that the US feels quite the same way. While I believe in the Constitution, the nation's laws and definitely in everyone's right to pursue personal happiness, goals and prosperity and all that, I do not think I could ever simply denounce the country I was born and raised in, as if I had to roots there, no attachment, no allegiance whatsoever.

I really don't know what to do, and would appreciate any thoughts you may have on the subject.

Cynthetiq · 07-16-2007, 08:48 AM

US does have dual citizenship for those that aren't naturalized. I don't know the process because I personally always found it absurd to carry two passports.

I don't know about Finnish requirements for visas, but the difference for Philippine passport holders is troublesome during family vacation times come around. It was problematic for my father when we expatriated to Singapore that he naturalized after many years being resistant to it. My father felt the same tug that you do in "denouncing" his birthland.

The added benefit was that he could vote in all elections, something he could not do as a resident alien.

QuasiMondo · 07-16-2007, 08:54 AM

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
http://www.post-gazette.com/nation/2...dual0515p4.asp
http://www.foreignborn.com/visas_imm...ationality.htm

Everything I've searched around so far concerns American citizens who acquire citizenship in a foreign country and whether they can retain their American citizenship. I could be wrong, but I don't the the U.S. government can make you renounce your Finnish citizenship because that's a decision that can only be made by the Finnish government. Just to be on the safe side though, you probably should contact a Finnish embassy.

jorgelito · 07-16-2007, 12:38 PM

It's not "denouncing", it's renouncing. I think there is a big difference. I wouldn't want to denounce my "ancestral homeland" either I suppose, but the oath is to swear or pledge fealty to your new country and forsake any claims to any other sovereigns etc.

pinal · 02-10-2011, 01:30 AM

Rather I got the citizenship for St. Kitts and found very easy to get it. A citizen of the Federation enjoys privileges while staying or working in any of the Caribbean Community. Really nice.

07-16-2007, 08:48 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	US does have dual citizenship for those that aren't naturalized. I don't know the process because I personally always found it absurd to carry two passports. I don't know about Finnish requirements for visas, but the difference for Philippine passport holders is troublesome during family vacation times come around. It was problematic for my father when we expatriated to Singapore that he naturalized after many years being resistant to it. My father felt the same tug that you do in "denouncing" his birthland. The added benefit was that he could vote in all elections, something he could not do as a resident alien. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-16-2007, 08:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
QuasiMondo Wise-ass Latino Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA	http://www.richw.org/dualcit/ http://www.post-gazette.com/nation/2...dual0515p4.asp http://www.foreignborn.com/visas_imm...ationality.htm Everything I've searched around so far concerns American citizens who acquire citizenship in a foreign country and whether they can retain their American citizenship. I could be wrong, but I don't the the U.S. government can make you renounce your Finnish citizenship because that's a decision that can only be made by the Finnish government. Just to be on the safe side though, you probably should contact a Finnish embassy. __________________ Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer. -From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

07-16-2007, 12:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	It's not "denouncing", it's renouncing. I think there is a big difference. I wouldn't want to denounce my "ancestral homeland" either I suppose, but the oath is to swear or pledge fealty to your new country and forsake any claims to any other sovereigns etc.

02-10-2011, 01:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
pinal Banned	Rather I got the citizenship for St. Kitts and found very easy to get it. A citizen of the Federation enjoys privileges while staying or working in any of the Caribbean Community. Really nice.