noodlebee

I have two roommates. One is a practicing Muslim who prays five times a day, does not drink alcohol or take other drugs, etc. The other is a non-practicing Christian but I did not know he was Christian until my Muslim roommate said "he is a non-practicing Christian." They are best friends, which is why my Muslim roommate knew this.

Usually, when someone says "I am [some religion]", do you assume he/she is practicing or non-practicing? I previously believed that if you say a sentence like this, you must be practicing. But now, I don't know too sure.

The reason I previously held this belief was because I assumed if you say "I am [some religion]", it means that you identify with that religion, understood the philosophy behind it, and followed (or tried your best) the rules and guidelines the religion asks. I felt "non-practicing" is just similar to saying "I have no religion" because you are not following the religion or actively improving your life in the way that religion asks you to. So what is the difference between non-practicing and no religion? How vague is this? Is it possible for an outsider of the religion to understand?

There was also another question someone asked. This person doesn't know my roommates, but it is somewhat a related topic. His original question was "What defines Christianity and Christian?" I want to take this to a broader scope and say "What defines a person to be a follower of a religion?"

So far, my personal belief is that if a person is trying his/her best to understand and believe that religion, that person can be called a follower like "Christian", "Buddhist", "Hindu". Maybe he/she is just beginning so he/she does not understand as much as someone who followed the same religion for a long time, but the definition is related to how much the mind is willing to accept, question, understand and put into practice.

Redlemon

I have several friends who describe themselves as "culturally Jewish". They don't make it to temple that often, except perhaps the major holidays, they don't keep kosher, etc. However, they were raised in a Jewish environment, and that still has an impact on who they are and how they got to be that way. This is similar to someone describing themselves as "non-practicing".

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JustJess

Right - I say that my dad's whole family were non-practicing Mormons. This, to me, means that they were raised Mormon, but do not practice all the rituals etc. of the religion.

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

Mith

I am a practicing (been hard for me lately) Baha'i.

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Mith

noodlebee

So to say "I am non-practicing [some religion]" it is usually safe to assume that this person was raised as that religion by parents and/or guardians? As in it is more a cultural aspect when someone says "non-practicing", but when you say "practicing" it means more than merely cultural, like also following the philosophies and beliefs.

Would you say this is better definition of practicing and non-practicing?

JustJess

Yes, noodlebee, that is precisely how I'd interpret it. (I'm kinda bookish, so I imagine that my interpretation is correct - but I'm sure someone will drop in to disagree eventually! )

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

snowy

Despite the fact that I only occasionally go to church, I would consider myself a practicing Christian affiliated with the Episcopalian church as far as beliefs go. I think nature is my church--I don't need to go to service and have the vicar lead me through the kyrie; I can ask God for mercy myself. That, I believe makes me Protestant above all else. Sometimes I do like to go to church, because church isn't about worshipping, it's about fellowship--about being a part of the Christian community and being with people who feel the same way that you do. I practice my faith every day, but I tend to take the attitude reflected in Matthew 6:16-6:18:

"Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly."

I tend to take this as the cue to witness when appropriate, but to otherwise not openly advertise that I am Christian. If people ask, I tell, but otherwise I keep my faith like a secret. I try not to advertise the lengths I go to to practice my faith, for example: fasting, Lenten practices, donations to charity, and volunteer work I keep largely to myself--unless people ask, of course, because then I feel obligated to answer an honest question honestly.

I would say whether one is practicing a certain faith or not is something answered by the person's mindset--one need not attend church to be a practicing Protestant, after all--Martin Luther clearly said that Protestants need no intermediary between themselves and their God.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

abaya

Noodlebee, I'm with you... to me, you either are or you aren't something. That's the main reason I decided to stop calling myself a Christian awhile back, because my actions and philosophies no longer fit what would be expected for a Christian, not by a long stretch. To call myself "non-practicing" would have been a euphemism for saying I no longer believe, and I am not a fan of euphemisms. I spent many years with a strong influence from Christianity and a bit of Buddhism, and I still respect some of the tenets from each, but I don't practice either one. Thus I am not entitled to call myself anything other than an agnostic.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Baraka_Guru

Another appropriate term for your identity might be "post-Christian."

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

abaya

Heh, good point. But it sounds a bit too academic and trendy... puts me in the company of post-modern, post-structural, post-colonial, post-office people...

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Redlemon

I read that one as "post-coital". Oops.

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

abaya

Well, that too, on a good day...

Sorry for the thread distraction...

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ratbastid

I disagree about you being "bookish", whatever exactly that means.

I refer to myself as a Recovering Episcopalian....

Cynthetiq

Baptized and raised Catholic going to parochial schools from 5th grade until after first year college.

I am non practicing for all intrinsic purposes, though I wear a medallion of St. Jude Thaddeus, patron Saint of hopeless cases impossible missions and policemen, which I have worn on my neck since I graduated from high school. It has been off my neck for only a few days in extreme circumstances. It has become a talisman for my life.

I do not attend church services unless directly requested. I prefer to sit quietly inside a house of worship be it mosque, church, synagogue, chapel, or prayer room.

I go to mass when requested by my mother because it is easier to go and sit quietly for the 1 hour than to argue over it for 3 and be guilted and reminded over it for months after the fact. I'd rather be happy than right.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

noodlebee

Wow. I forgot about this thread.

Cynthetiq, somehow, I feel like you are a practicing Catholic because of your medallion and you still prefer worship even if it is not inside a church. But it is really a gray area so maybe I am wrong?

Maybe I should look at practicing vs. non-practicing as a spectrum instead. I don't really know. Sometimes it looks like black and white, sometimes it looks like different shades of gray.

Cynthetiq

Practicing would imply that I followed the church dogma, followed the parish, diocese, and ultimately the pope. My medalion is just a talisman of good luck or good fortune more than anything. The first time I did not wear it for an extended time I had some extreme bad luck in 24 hours, I vowed to wear it ever since.

As far as being a Catholic is concerned, I'm quite disassociated from it.

My relationship with a higher power, god or gods is a personal one and it resides directly within me. I don't have to have any intermediary or translator.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Willravel

Non-practicing atheist....

StellaLuna

I'm a Recovering Catholic. I carry a St. Christopher medal and a Mary medal with me at all times, I love the ritual and the history--but I can't stand to be called Catholic. I also observed Yule and Imbolc this year. I believe in reincarnation and pray to God- a big ol' power that I don't understand but can feel working in my life, not necessarily some old guy in the sky. I would love to know where I fell on a spectrum of "practicing/nonpracticing"!

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Screw tradition!

World's King

I'm a recovering Catholic.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

Charlatan

I attended church as a child but not consistently. My mom dragged me to a Presbyterian church and later to a Salvation Army. Non of it every really made sense to me. Christianity has always been around me. It's trappings are familiar to me but ultimately I rejected it all when I realized I could.

I still go to church once a year during my wife's family reunion but I do so out of respect to the family (they are practicing Anglicans) rather than any sort of belief.

I don't believe you can be a practicing or non-practicing Atheist as it a) isn't a religion and b) can't be practiced.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

tecoyah

Practicing Neo-Pagan.....You get the Ritual without the Guilt and no one expects you to worship a God, but they wont criticize if you do either. Actually I suppose all you need to do to be a Practicing Pagan, is say thats what you are.

noodlebee

Hmmm.... but maybe you can be called a practicing Catholic if "practicing religion" is defined similar to what onesnowyowl said, Cynthetiq. Is it necessary to follow the pope and church dogma, etc to say you are "practicing Catholic"? Well, it also depends on what things you follow in the Bible. I don't know.

Some people also mentioned "recovering". How is this different from saying "practicing"? Please tell me if I am wrong, but the only thing I see is that "recovering" just means you are returning to practicing, nothing more.

Last question: What is a "non-practicing atheist"? Hahahaha.... willravel really made me think when he said that. I am very confused now.

Baraka_Guru

Buddhists won't call themselves Buddhist lest it defeat their purpose.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Cynthetiq

Recovering is said in jest or toungue in cheek as they were raised and now whatever.

For myself, yes it means that. I do not follow the beliefs of many other twice a year Catholics attending Mass on Christmas and Easter. I also cannot be a "Cafeteria Catholic wherein I pick and choose what parts of the dogma I wish to follow. I either believe in the whole system, or I reject it wholly.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Willravel

I'm an atheist, but I don't pray to Galapagos finches before eating supper.

Kpax

Most Muslims are very adherent to their faith. I had two co-workers that were Muslim. One would pray towards east every day, the other never drank alcohol or ate pork, and went to the Mosque every morning.

It depends on what religion, I guess. Most people who say they are Christian merely mean that they believe in God, and that they believe in Christ (and in some cases, believe Christ and God are the same).

I was raised in an ultra-conservative Christian upbringing. Do I call myself Christian? No. Do I believe everything I was taught? Yeah. Do I do what other people are STILL doing who were raised in the same religion? No. I haven't preached in years and years, but I was never baptized, and therefore never a member (not counted in the stats).

I believe in God, but I haven't prayed in years. People think this is the first evidence of a lack of belief, but they should think outside the box. This SHOWS belief. I mean, who would be THIS disappointed if they didn't believe God exists? Of course, I keep an open mind as to why my prayers weren't answered. God is always right, but I'm still sad about it.

Baraka_Guru

So, does this mean you're a secular atheist?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

noodlebee

Secular atheist is opposed to what? Vernacular atheist? (I don't even know if "vernacular" can be used like this. WAHHHH! O_O)

Also, to say "it depends on the religion" seems strange. Is it really depends on religion? Or do you say it is more culture? I know those things are very hard to define since they can overlap. All I really see from outside perspective is that Muslims have clearly defined rules (e.g. do not drink alcohol) but Christianity is somehow more vague.

abaya

Eh, perhaps you know too many vague Christians. Most of the American Evangelical Christians I know are pretty damn strict about their behavior, not least concerning sex.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Sion

I'm agnostic. We don't have to practice.

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Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz

I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

snowy

Yeah, and most of the Episcopalians I know are pretty vague...so you end up with two ends of the spectrum under the same giant umbrella. The thing is, noodlebee, is that Christians divide themselves up underneath that giant umbrella, and how they practice their faith is determined based on what sect of Christianity they are apart of.

So you start off with Catholics and Protestants, and then you can break that down further into mainline Protestant churches, which are numerous:

There are also evangelical and non-denominational churches, which would be towards the right of the spectrum. This should give you an idea of what they believe:

The problem is that outside of mainline Protestantism, which is formed of older, well-organized churches, most evangelical or non-denominational churches are young and not as well organized into national networks (except for the Southern Baptist Convention, etc).

Either way, trying to divide Christians up neatly is damn near impossible. I wonder how God is going to do it come Judgment Day.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Redlemon

Which brings us to Emo Phillips:

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

Charlatan

Interestingly, under sharia law, a muslim cannot become a non-practicing muslim. To do so is considered apostasy and is subject to punishment (technically death is the punishment).

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke