friend slipping away - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Shokan · 06-13-2003, 01:12 PM

My best friend, has recently fallen on very hard times. He recently broke up with his gf of 3 years, as well as losing one of his pets that he has had for most of his 23 years.

First, a little background info. "Bob"'s way of thinking has dramatically changed since first meeting him 7 years ago. He has become very involved in alot of philosophy, Eastern religious ideas, lucid dreaming, and thoughts which I cannot begin to understand. I hate, HATE , to use this term, but its really the only term that most people will understand, as he has become this over a period of roughly 2 years.

He has basically gone insane. With what mental disease label, I can't name. Delusions, schizophrenia among others I suppose.

So anyway. His gf, who I don't really know all that well, as we have had issues in the past together which caused us to dislike each other greatly, broke it off with him by telling him a lie. The lie was basically that "she wanted to be more independant". In reality, which I learned last night when she told over IRC , was that "Bob" got "too weird for her". She started seeing this guy shes known for quite sometime, and "Bob" found out about it.

Before I knew about this, that same morning I drove over to his house to pick up something. As we were sitting down, he informed me of his intentions to "leave". He showed me all his survival supplies he bought. ie - hatchet, tent, first aid, etc. And I know him well enough to know that he is serious.

On one hand, I can respect his decisions and realize if thats what he wants to do, so be it. On the other hand, I worry he will leave and travel further into the depths on insanity and never return. He will not seek help and he doesn't believe he's insane. He believes he is right in his way of thinking.

Im currently chatting with him over ICQ, and we are planning to go for a walk together sometime next week. I want to tell him my feelings about him and his situation, but am afraid that he will get angry or worse, cease speaking to me altogether. Does anyone have any advice, or been in similar circumstances who can offer thier insight?

Sorry for the length, but he means alot to me.

viveleroi0 · 06-13-2003, 01:35 PM

It sounds as if counselling is your only recommendation. He sounds to serious in his path to have you mjake much of a difference, but gathering his friends and family and trying hard to push him towards counseling may save the relationship.

geep · 06-13-2003, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by viveleroi0
It sounds as if counselling is your only recommendation. He sounds to serious in his path to have you mjake much of a difference, but gathering his friends and family and trying hard to push him towards counseling may save the relationship.

I agree absolutely. This is a situation where professional help is a must. Maybe you could talk to his family and friends before you get together with him, and arrange a time and place for him to be there, too. You may have to get him there under false pretense. There is a possibilty that together you may be able to talk him into trying counseling. Ultimately, though, the decision will be his.

Lebell · 06-13-2003, 02:25 PM

If Bob is a danger to himself, you can also contact your county's social services department.

Obviously, this is an extreme measure.

good luck

saladami82 · 06-13-2003, 02:54 PM

True, insane is not the word for it but there isn't an accepted term available. Psychotic is the actual term but most people assume that means someone inclined to violence.

psychosis: derangement of personality and loss of contact with reality and causing deterioration of normal social functioning

If he really is losing touch with reality to the point that schizophrenia/bipolar/a related disorder could be diagnosed (check the DSM?) then you need professional (psychiatric) help, but he will resist. Do whatever you can to stall him, talk to him and play along with the delusions if you have to. Ask if you can go with him.

You can't just walk up to him and say "hey you're crazy lets go get some medication" but this is essentially what needs to happen. Maybe watch a movie that hints at this or deals with mental illness (Fight Club, A Beautiful Mind). Use any kind of interest or "thing he's into" you can think of to reach him.

What did he mean by "leaving"? Go out and live off the land? A metaphor for what he's already done or for "leaving this world?"

Chances are he will live in his own reality until forced by some traumatic event to seek help in actual reality (doctors). You can only hope that he doesn't get physically hurt but most people in this situation do.

-saladami

rockzilla · 06-13-2003, 02:57 PM

One of my best friends is very similar to yours Shokan, he was always a little "off-center" but in the past 5 years or so, he's done things like moved to BC with nothing but a backpack full of books and clothes to his name and couch surfed while working and quitting a variety of minimum wage jobs. He then lived in a decrepit VW rabbit through the winter in Toronto. He moved back here to live with his parents last year, to save up money to live an even more bare-bones existence in Mexico, but has since quit another job to focus on doing yoga all day.
I've found that flat out telling him what he's doing is crazy and serves no good purpose. His parents are furious that they spent a small fortune getting him through university and he's done nothing with it, and he often purposely makes things awkward between people by being deliberately controversial and confrontational. I just don't think he sees any of that as being important.
The best I'm able to do with him is be the voice of reason. If he gets wierd, I listen, but try to play devil's advocate for him. If you make your friend think about how he plans to live, at least you'll know how serious he is. But if your friend really wants to go, let him, he'll be back come winter and he'll have probably cleared his head somewhat.

Don't know how much help I've been, but I hope a little at least.

gonadman · 06-13-2003, 08:11 PM

Maybe a mistake I made can help a bit.

I had a friend who was "losing touch" with reality. He was my best friend for many years. He wouldn't, or couldn't see the problem. In an attempt to help him, I enlisted his family to support my suggestions to obtain counselling. He accidentally overheard me talking to his mother one day.

He never trusted me again. The only bridge to reality that he trusted had failed him. I failed him.

Help your friend as best and forcefully as possible. But protect your friendship at all costs. You may be one of the few that can convince him to obtain help.

Good Luck

guthmund · 06-13-2003, 10:41 PM

You don't give us enough information. You say he's gotten into some "weird" stuff, but fail to elaborate if it's dangerous as well. His girlfriend left because he was "too weird??"

That's just such a vague word. Is he harming anyone? Is he a danger to anybody else? Is he dangerous or is he just having a few radical ideas?

If he's not hurting anybody, I'd advise leaving the guy alone. We all find our own paths in this world and sometimes you got to walk the "crazy" line a few miles to find your way back to sanity. If there's no danger, be his friend.

It's just too vague, maybe some more information would clear this up?

lurkette · 06-15-2003, 04:25 PM

I think the best thing you can do is express your concerns in an honest and loving way, and offer to support him in any way you feel comfortable - helping him find counseling, just being there for him, whatever. If he doesn't want help, there's not a lot you can do unless he is actually dangerous to himself or others - even then, it's difficult to get someone help against their will. Is he really insane, or is he just really....different? Big difference in how you approach this.

Shokan · 06-15-2003, 07:51 PM

Well, thanks for all the advice. But after careful consideration, I've decided that he isn't hurting anyone. I don't fully support him leaving without any plans to go anywhere, just "wander the Earth", but ultimately its his decision. I've decided that when he goes, I'm just going to ask for a postcard every now and then to keep in touch.

Whenever we go on the walk, and if I learn anything else, Ill post.

But thanks again everyone.

06-13-2003, 01:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
Shokan Addict Location: Canada	friend slipping away My best friend, has recently fallen on very hard times. He recently broke up with his gf of 3 years, as well as losing one of his pets that he has had for most of his 23 years. First, a little background info. "Bob"'s way of thinking has dramatically changed since first meeting him 7 years ago. He has become very involved in alot of philosophy, Eastern religious ideas, lucid dreaming, and thoughts which I cannot begin to understand. I hate, HATE , to use this term, but its really the only term that most people will understand, as he has become this over a period of roughly 2 years. He has basically gone insane. With what mental disease label, I can't name. Delusions, schizophrenia among others I suppose. So anyway. His gf, who I don't really know all that well, as we have had issues in the past together which caused us to dislike each other greatly, broke it off with him by telling him a lie. The lie was basically that "she wanted to be more independant". In reality, which I learned last night when she told over IRC , was that "Bob" got "too weird for her". She started seeing this guy shes known for quite sometime, and "Bob" found out about it. Before I knew about this, that same morning I drove over to his house to pick up something. As we were sitting down, he informed me of his intentions to "leave". He showed me all his survival supplies he bought. ie - hatchet, tent, first aid, etc. And I know him well enough to know that he is serious. On one hand, I can respect his decisions and realize if thats what he wants to do, so be it. On the other hand, I worry he will leave and travel further into the depths on insanity and never return. He will not seek help and he doesn't believe he's insane. He believes he is right in his way of thinking. Im currently chatting with him over ICQ, and we are planning to go for a walk together sometime next week. I want to tell him my feelings about him and his situation, but am afraid that he will get angry or worse, cease speaking to me altogether. Does anyone have any advice, or been in similar circumstances who can offer thier insight? Sorry for the length, but he means alot to me. __________________ Legalize it.

06-13-2003, 01:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
viveleroi0 Psycho Location: Oregon	It sounds as if counselling is your only recommendation. He sounds to serious in his path to have you mjake much of a difference, but gathering his friends and family and trying hard to push him towards counseling may save the relationship. __________________ "It's not that I don't understand, it's that I don't care" - Homer Simpson

06-13-2003, 02:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	If Bob is a danger to himself, you can also contact your county's social services department. Obviously, this is an extreme measure. good luck __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

06-13-2003, 08:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
gonadman Psycho Location: Philly	Maybe a mistake I made can help a bit. I had a friend who was "losing touch" with reality. He was my best friend for many years. He wouldn't, or couldn't see the problem. In an attempt to help him, I enlisted his family to support my suggestions to obtain counselling. He accidentally overheard me talking to his mother one day. He never trusted me again. The only bridge to reality that he trusted had failed him. I failed him. Help your friend as best and forcefully as possible. But protect your friendship at all costs. You may be one of the few that can convince him to obtain help. Good Luck __________________ For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel, looking, looking, ...breathlessly. -Carlos Castaneda

06-13-2003, 10:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	You don't give us enough information. You say he's gotten into some "weird" stuff, but fail to elaborate if it's dangerous as well. His girlfriend left because he was "too weird??" That's just such a vague word. Is he harming anyone? Is he a danger to anybody else? Is he dangerous or is he just having a few radical ideas? If he's not hurting anybody, I'd advise leaving the guy alone. We all find our own paths in this world and sometimes you got to walk the "crazy" line a few miles to find your way back to sanity. If there's no danger, be his friend. It's just too vague, maybe some more information would clear this up? __________________ No signature. None. Seriously. Last edited by guthmund; 06-13-2003 at 10:43 PM..

06-13-2003, 02:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
saladami82 Upright Location: NJ	True, insane is not the word for it but there isn't an accepted term available. Psychotic is the actual term but most people assume that means someone inclined to violence. psychosis: derangement of personality and loss of contact with reality and causing deterioration of normal social functioning If he really is losing touch with reality to the point that schizophrenia/bipolar/a related disorder could be diagnosed (check the DSM?) then you need professional (psychiatric) help, but he will resist. Do whatever you can to stall him, talk to him and play along with the delusions if you have to. Ask if you can go with him. You can't just walk up to him and say "hey you're crazy lets go get some medication" but this is essentially what needs to happen. Maybe watch a movie that hints at this or deals with mental illness (Fight Club, A Beautiful Mind). Use any kind of interest or "thing he's into" you can think of to reach him. What did he mean by "leaving"? Go out and live off the land? A metaphor for what he's already done or for "leaving this world?" Chances are he will live in his own reality until forced by some traumatic event to seek help in actual reality (doctors). You can only hope that he doesn't get physically hurt but most people in this situation do. -saladami

06-13-2003, 02:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
rockzilla Junkie Location: The Kitchen	One of my best friends is very similar to yours Shokan, he was always a little "off-center" but in the past 5 years or so, he's done things like moved to BC with nothing but a backpack full of books and clothes to his name and couch surfed while working and quitting a variety of minimum wage jobs. He then lived in a decrepit VW rabbit through the winter in Toronto. He moved back here to live with his parents last year, to save up money to live an even more bare-bones existence in Mexico, but has since quit another job to focus on doing yoga all day. I've found that flat out telling him what he's doing is crazy and serves no good purpose. His parents are furious that they spent a small fortune getting him through university and he's done nothing with it, and he often purposely makes things awkward between people by being deliberately controversial and confrontational. I just don't think he sees any of that as being important. The best I'm able to do with him is be the voice of reason. If he gets wierd, I listen, but try to play devil's advocate for him. If you make your friend think about how he plans to live, at least you'll know how serious he is. But if your friend really wants to go, let him, he'll be back come winter and he'll have probably cleared his head somewhat. Don't know how much help I've been, but I hope a little at least.

06-15-2003, 04:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	I think the best thing you can do is express your concerns in an honest and loving way, and offer to support him in any way you feel comfortable - helping him find counseling, just being there for him, whatever. If he doesn't want help, there's not a lot you can do unless he is actually dangerous to himself or others - even then, it's difficult to get someone help against their will. Is he really insane, or is he just really....different? Big difference in how you approach this. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

06-15-2003, 07:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
Shokan Addict Location: Canada	Well, thanks for all the advice. But after careful consideration, I've decided that he isn't hurting anyone. I don't fully support him leaving without any plans to go anywhere, just "wander the Earth", but ultimately its his decision. I've decided that when he goes, I'm just going to ask for a postcard every now and then to keep in touch. Whenever we go on the walk, and if I learn anything else, Ill post. But thanks again everyone. __________________ Legalize it.