warrrreagl

As some of you may know, my wife and I will be moving out into the wilderness (Alabama countryside) soon, and we're a little concerned about personal safety. Come on, you've seen "Deliverance." You know what's out in the woods in Dixie.

Anyway, someone recommended that the perfect dog for us is something called a Fila from Brazil. I've read all the web pages about this dog and it does seem to be exactly what we're looking for, but I'd still like to hear from someone who's actually encountered one.

Anybody?

(P.S.) - We despise the whole Pit Bull thing, so don't go there. We just want a dog that will protect us without committing mass murder.

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zfleebin

I would suggest doing a search on Anatolian Shepherds. It is a breed from turkey that is very good at being a guardian as well as a companion. I have bred and owned them for the past 12 years and I cannot tell you how much they brought to my family. Their good with kids and cats for that matter and their size scared trouble makers off my farm. Good luck

mtsgsd

Ok, speaking as someone who, along with the wife is HEAVILY involved in the dog world, the first thing you need to do is, research which you've already started, and then find an internet board devoted to the breeds you find interesting. Then ask lots of questions.

Truth is, ANY dog can be trained for protection. Even those lovable golden retrievers. Certain dogs have been bred for specific traits, but you have to understand what those traits are and what possible problems there could be. Anatolians for example ARE excellent guardians. They'll guard you and your family from EVERYTHING. Including your friends and neighbors.

All dogs have quirks or personality traits common to their breed that can make them difficult for some people to handle/work with or a joy to own. Ya gots ta know before ya buy.

With large aggressive breeds, it's important to buy for a responsible breeder to make sure you get one that has the right temperament. Responsible means that you'll probably have to go thru some interrogation to determine if you're the right sort of people for the dog, and it means that the breeder will not only take the dog back if there is a problem, they'll insist on it.

Other good breeds to look at would be Rottweiler, and Cane Corso. We have 6 Rotts guesting at our farm right now and they are really something. Friendly as can be, but their growl! Wow. Even when you're playing you find yourself double checking to make sure that he's still playing too! Even their owner, who's a breeder gets fooled sometimes.

My wife, and the breeder I mentioned are on tilted too. Let me know if you want more info and they could help you out. I'm sure there's other dog people on the board too though!

Hope this helps

warrrreagl

This is helping more than you can know. Keep 'em coming.

I'm anxious to hear about lots of different breeds that would be right for us.

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mtsgsd

How do we know what's right for you? You haven't told us yet!

What exactly do you want the dog to do?
Have you owned dogs before?
What kind of personality do you want in the dog?
Is the property going to be fenced in?
Will there be small childeren there?
Other pets/livestock?
What restrictions on dog breeds exist where you're moving (sounds like there won't be any)
Are you going to have the dog trained?
By who?
Trained in what?

You need to know the answers to these questions as you pursue your journey to enlightenment. Seriously, you'll be asked these questions a lot as you look into this and we can't advise you till you do! Simple ain't it?

warrrreagl

Oh goody, my first doggie questionnaire! I hope I studied enough.
*sharpens pencil and takes deep breath*

1) What exactly do you want the dog to do?
We want the dog to guard our home and protect us. We will be living in the country with no other houses for miles around, but in an area that occasionally has ne'er-do-wells roaming about. My wife will be home alone for most of the day, and she wants to feel safe. Also, we will be taking frequent walks through the woods, and we want to feel safe from any crazies (human of animal). We don't want a dog that will kill everything that moves, but we want a dog that will actively protect us if we are threatened.

2) Have you owned dogs before?
Yes. My wife raised a beautiful cocker spaniel that would have attacked a bear for her if needed, and he finally died of old age 10 years ago. We currently have two small poodles (both rescued) who are good burglar alarms, but they're both drama queens and hide from every shadow. My wife has an aversion to dogs who sling slobber everywhere, but this dog will be an outside dog (so she is willing to relent here).

3) What kind of personality do you want in the dog?
Happy, playful, and fiercely loyal.

4) Is the property going to be fenced in?
The immediate two acres or so around the house will be fenced. We'll obviously have to arrange it so that the utility meters are outside the fence. The remainder of the land is wide open. We will leave the dog outside the house (but inside the fence) unless the weather threatens. When we take him for our walks, we want him to be able to explore around us and stay under voice command without a leash. We want him to stay nearby without taking off and leaving us alone.

5) Will there be small childeren there?
We have no offspring at all, so there will be no children living in the house. We have threatened for years to adopt a child, but if we did, it would NOT be a baby or toddler. Our in-laws do have children, however, and will visit occasionally.

6) Other pets/livestock?
Two cats who were raised by the aforementioned drama queen poodles. They are both "inside" cats.

7) What restrictions on dog breeds exist where you're moving (sounds like there won't be any)
None I know of, although many people believe that anybody in Alabama with a pick-up truck is required by law to put a Pit Bull in the back. I hate those fucking bastard dogs.

Are you going to have the dog trained?
By who?
Trained in what?
Yes, it will be imperative that someone with skill (not us) properly train the dog and us as well. We don't know who will do the training, although the Auburn University Veterinary Small Animal Clinic will be within a few miles of our property entrance, and we assume they will know people for the job. We need voice commands, hand signals, heel, and all that good stuff.

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mtsgsd

Ok, I forwarded this to my wife and friend so they could read it at work. I'll post their replies so you can get different viewpoints.

Sounded like you wanted a BIG dog, and were following stereotypes, but I obviously was wrong! Lots of dogs will fit the bill here. Including our beloved German Shepherd Dogs (wife used to be a GSD breeder/shower). Slobber rules out most of the Mastiff breeds. I mentioned Rotts in the earlier post, but they get pretty sloppy too at times.

I'll wait for the replies, but I'll point out a caveat regarding the training now. Be aware that all it takes for someone to become a dog trainer is to simply call themselves one. There's no training or certifictation required, and there's an awfull lot of bad ones out there with some really strange or harmfull ideas. The internet will help out with references there. I'm sure we can hook you up with a board that can help.

mtsgsd

Well that was fast! Our friend didn't have anything to add to this which is from my wife "Balaniki".

Here's my $.02

I'll start based on importance:

>My wife has an aversion to dogs who sling slobber everywhere, but this dog will be an outside dog (so she is willing to relent here).

What good does a dog do if it's OUTSIDE and your wife is INSIDE? What if the bad guy gets inside? If the dog is always outside it will have little interaction with you. Interaction = bonding = loyalty = the desire to protect you. I would highly recommend rethinking the outside-only rule. Another reason is that many responsible breeders and rescue groups will NOT sell/adopt an animal that will be outside only.

>Yes, it will be imperative that someone with skill (not us) properly train the dog and us as well.

Basic and intermediate obedience is a good start. But if you decide to get into the presonal protection area of training keep this in mind - you, your wife and the dog will need to continually go back for training, proofing, and practice. Finding a GOOD PP trainer is hard.

The vast majority of home invaders are deterred by just the sound of a dog barking. They don't even need to see one - just hear it. A large dog, especially one of a easily recognized breed that is KNOWN for it's protectiveness (like German Shspherds or Rotties) will get most of the rest of the bad guys - regardless of the dogs training. Just the sight of a big, loud, barking German Shepherd, Rottie, Dobe, Pit (GOOD Pits are great dogs - BAD ones should be destroyed) will send those guys running.

(added by mtsgsd) A poll was done a few years back among convicted burglars as to what they look for in a house to rob. They all agreed that any sign of a dog would make them look for a different house.(end)

The totally determined, stop-at-nothing bad guys will be stopped by only one thing - a gun.

I'm biased. I'd recommend either a rescue German Shepherd (I have rescue contact information if you are interested) or one from a VERY good breeder (I know several I could recommend).

I'd look for one without alot of PREY drive (that would be bad for the Poodles and the cats) but with lots of PLAY drive (MUCH easier to train these). Healthy parents and grandparents and great-great-great grandparents. Various training titles to prove the dogs CAN do what they were bred to do - herd, guard, protect, obey.
Balaniki

(More from mtsgsd)
Our friend didn't bother to add anything but I'll tell you that she frequently has phone calls asking her if her rottweillers are mean/agressive or can they be trained to be. Or they call saying they want to chain the dog outside as a guard dog, and rotts are supposed to be good. She will not even talk to these people.

There are legitimate reasons to want a dog for protection, and legitimate ways to go about it. the problem is that there are so many freaks, assholes, clueless people out there that breeders will often turn you down out of hand if you say you want a guard dog. They expect their dogs to be valued members of the family. Forgive the arrogance, but it sounds like your heads in the right place, and you have realistic expectations. Just be carefull how you broach the subject when approaching breeders or people on dog boards.

The dog can be the protection you want and still be just as much a pet as the dogs you own already.

warrrreagl

America! What a country! Seriously, though, I have not the words to express my gratitude over the energy and skill found in your replies.

I believe you are very correct in that we should alter our plans so that the dog would be both an indoor and outdoor dog. If the dog is partially indoor, however, this would rule out the slobbering breeds (mastiffs, you called them). Of the ones we've mentioned so far, which are those?

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mtsgsd

Not sure actually. We can't think of any of Mastiff type that doesn't slobber, but that isn't the same as knowing there aren't. Fila Brasileiro is a type of Mastiff. It can top 200 lbs according to one site I found. It doesn't seem to be AKC registered (so what).

Rotts can get pretty slobbery when they get excited too. I got slimed pretty thoroughly last night when one of the 120lb. males jumped up on my couch to say hello.

GSD's (German Shepherd Dog) don't slobber, and are proven to be highly intelligent, intensely loyal and perfect for many uses besides herding such as police and protection work. As she said we're a little biased.

www.akc.org can show you the basic description and temperament of the dogs.

I'd google up a rescue group or club devoted to the breed you're interested in to get more info. For example, this site won't mention that Siberian Huskies absolutely can not be allowed off leash on less they are in a fenced in area. They will run. Great pyrannees will like to dig large holes in your yard. etc.

Like I said before, any dog can do protection work. A trainer in the chicago area trained a Golden Retriever just to show it could be done. Nice and happy one minute, ready to take your arm off the next. Big dogs can add a lot of intimidation factor, but shouldn't be a requirement. Another thing to keep in mind that the larger the dog is, the shorter it's lifespan. For instance Rotts and Great Danes average about 8 years or so. Proper diet ie. not kibble can extend that tho.

Balaniki

Here's a link about the Fila's. Since they are a Mastiff breed I *think* you would have to deal with the drooling issue.

http://www.dogtimes.com.br/english/fila-us.htm

From the AKC website about the Anatolian Shepherd:

"Loyalty, independence, and hardiness are the three factors most appreciated by fanciers of the breed. First entering the United States in the 1950s, the Anatolian Shepherd Dog is a fiercely loyal guard dog not considered a "glamor breed." Faithful to its job, the Anatolian is highly intelligent and responsive to its master. However, its independent nature means it can be slow to respond to commands."

Don't get me wrong - these are probably THE best breed for livestock guarding. But for a novice owner these can be too much dog.

Unless you want a professional trained personal protection dog - you should look for the "visual deterant" factor.

Allowing the dog access to the house and outside at all times will solve your issues about the dog protecting the property as well as you and your wife.

Before I met my wonderful husband (he reads this forum you know ) I lived by myself in a not so great neighborhood. Well, not exactly by myself. There were my 4 German Shepherds. After a year of coming to visit and listening to my dogs bark like crazy when they showed up - even though it was "Oh BOY!! They're HERE again" happy barking - my parents FINALLY stopped worring about me living alone!

And when my husband and I bought our house - at first he worried about me being there alone. He wanted to have one of our guns (we are both avid sport shooters) downstairs just in case. I told him that the dog would slow down an intruder enough to allow me to saunter to the room where the guns are, get out a gun, load it and check the aim and THEN go downstairs.

After witnessing the dogs "greeting" him at the door a few times - he agrees!!

Unless you are under a direct threat - a visual deterant will take care of 99% of the problem people.

Leviathan[NCV]

Time for my $.01. I've delt with two rescued German Shepherds in my short time, as well as many other breeds of dogs, and I simply love them. From my experience with 'rescued' dogs I would (sadly) avoid it, and get a puppy for the tasks you have stated.
We've rescued two german shepherds, and picked one out of the paper (note Moose).
Shepherd #1: Sassy, incredibly intelligent dog, perfect listener, excellent alarm dog. Garunteed to lick someone to death; but so well trained that you can put your finger on the ground, say lie here, and she puts her nose to it and stays their untill otherwise told. Perfect house dog. God I wish my parents would let me have her.
Shepherd #2: Moose, 90 odd pounds of stupidity. Chewed everything in sight and took quite a bit of training to get to a good state.
Shepherd #3: Angel, loyal gaurd dog. The first three days she was home, she wouldn't even let anyone within 10 feet of my mother without some serious warning. In time she came to love and protect everyone in the household, almost ended up with a lawsuit when someone decided to walk onto our property, but that's another story. She was a bit skitzy, and afraid of any sort of negativity. Even the slightest amount and her temperment towards you would be changed for around a week or more.

The reason I mentioned avoiding a rescued dog and getting a puppy is for several reasons: A dog you have raised from a puppy will most definately instill the loyalty you desire. Both of you will have to help train the dog. I would *not* reccomend a third party for training the dog, pick up a couple good books, keep a communication line to your breeder open, and you should be set. It's still a gamble, but you do have the current hosts word, the current rescuer is looking for a *permenant* home for the dog, an will not lie to you about its behavoir.

Other breed reccomendations: I have had limited exposure to Belgian shepherds, but every but of it impressed me. They are smaller than German shepherds, but are a bit more territorial (and protective) than a German shepherd is, even at times a bit excessive (imo). Though, if you're going to have limited contact at your home with the outside world, it may be perfect.

Note of caution: I would veer away from any mixed breeds, it's a gamble. The one dog I'm in regular contact with now that I'm on my own is a Husky/Lab mix, and I love him to death. Of course, he loves to run. Including away from us when off a leash. Oh, and fences are no match for his black stature.


Hope this helps!

mtsgsd

Well, having actually worked with my wife's GSD rescue untill she retired from it. I can tell you that there are good and bad rescue groups out there. Good rescues can be an advantage as they well be able to tell you what the behaviour of the dog is like ie. good with kids, cats, strangers and so forth and so on. You are also getting a dog that has had any medical treatment it required, usually at great expense to the group (I know). And you don't play the guessing game of what the dog will be like when it grows up, or if it will have development issues. The dog will have a life time garauntee that if you ever decide you don't want the dog, it must come back to them.

Bad rescues will let you take the dog the same day you see it, without doing anything to determine if your household is right for the dog, or if you and the dog are a good match. It may have come straight from the shelter it was rescued from. They may or may not take it back if there is a problem. Like say, you discover that it's people aggressive. That's happened with a group we know.

Btw, you can get Pups from rescues as well as adults. Just depends on what they have at the moment.

As for the bonding. Forget that. Rescues will bond with you just as strongly as long as you do the work to earn it. Bonds of any kind are forged, they don't just occur because the dog is young and stupid.

I'll agree in a limited fashion on the training. You can give the dog to someone else who will board, feed, and train the dog then return it to you. Bad idea, because the dog has not learned to respect and obey YOUR commands. There's a lot of training of the owner that gets done in a good class btw. It's not just about training the dog to obey no matter what. That's done with negative reinforcement and leaves you with a scared dog that won't take any initiative at all, and certainly won't "bond" with you.

OTH, there are a lot of bad trainers out there, so you'll need to do some research and check references. We can give you the addresses of some internet dog boards if you like and you can see if anyone can point you to some good places.

Mixed breeds: As long as your adopting from a good rescue (and there are rescues that take mutts) it will have spent enough time living with a foster home that you'll know what it's traits are. Judging from the mix it is supposed to be made from won't work, as it's frequently just a guess anyway. The shelter we used to work with had a "policy" that's pretty common. If the ears point up, it's a German Shepherd mix. If the ears hang down, it's a Labrador mix. There's now way to check geneticaly, so you just eyeball it.

We fostered a pregnant bitch that looked like some sort of GSD mix. The puppies looked like purebred Australian Cattle Dogs. Even ACD breeders told us they would have assumed they were pure if they hadn't seen the pictures of the birth. You never know! Here's another example from my wife's web page. Take a look at Carmel and her pups:
http://www.rawdogranch.com/fosters.htm

warrrreagl

Well, I can at least put one argument to rest right here; the dog in question will not be a rescued dog. Our two poodles are both rescued poodles and were 1yr. and 2yrs. when we got them (they are now 4yrs. and 5yrs.). It's like having perpetual infants in the house. They are both loving, sweet, happy, playful little girls, but they are UNTRAINABLE! Whatever happened to them before we got them makes them cower in sheer terror whenever we attempt any training. The only training we've taught them is "sit" and walk on a leash. They are housebroken if they feel like it, so they have to spend the day together in our kitchen.

The next one will be a puppy with papers.

And thanks a googleplex for the other advice.

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mtsgsd

LOL, well you should have had a good idea they were going to be that way when you got them after all, otherwise the rescue group didn't do their job.

Seriously though about the papers. They don't mean squat unfortunately. They are too easy to forge and misuse. A common trick is to declare a litter larger than actually was born, or just not say that some of the litter died at birth. Now you have genuine AKC papers that can be used for whatever dog you want to use them for. In any case it just says the dog was registered, not that it's really a correct representation of the breed. The reputation of the breeder is your only protection.

warrrreagl

Oh, I know. That was just a poor attempt on my part at some clever alliteration. For that sentence, papers = non-mutt.

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mtsgsd

Ok, I'll shut up now

warrrreagl

Don't you dare! I'm counting on this info.

Hey, where are you in Wisconsin, by the way? My wife and I lived in Iowa for three years while we worked in Ames at ISU. If you live near Lands' End, she'll worship you.

Our only experience with Wisconsin (other than having a plane seemingly taxi all the way from Chicago to Milwaukee) was what we visited along the Mississippi River. From what we saw and experienced, Wisconsin was a beautiful, beautiful state.

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mtsgsd

Yep! very nice. We live just north of Kenosha which is near the Illinois/Wis. border. I was born in Iowa, and my wife and I both have lived in Illinois for most of our lives. Just moved to Wis. 1.5 years ago. Wonderfull place. One of these days when we win the lottery, we'll move up to a larger farm in the central part of the state. Untill then we have a little 3 acre hobby farm complete with dogs, ducks, chickens and rabbit! No offense.

bigoldalphamale

fila dogs are probably much more than you need. for something between a pitbull and a fila, you may do well to check out a presa canario. it is another mastiff breed, getting upwards of 140lbs. great looking dogs and just a TON of fun. i shopped for presa's for 2 years before i finally settled on a red nosed pit (because of the size of my house not lending itself to the 140lb ers) but in all my research and encounters with the presas, they are just incredible incredible dogs. one breeder told me that he used to hunt kodiak bears with a male and female pair of presas. now, imho, any 2 dogs that can bring down a bear, is all the protection you need. worth checking out...only disclaimer: a top notch presa with papers from a top breeder can run you in excess of $5k.

bigoldalphamale

(P.S.) - We despise the whole Pit Bull thing, so don't go there. We just want a dog that will protect us without committing mass murder.

an extremely ignorant statement, which indicates that maybe you're better off buying a gun. people like you make it impossible for responsible pit bull owners to bring our dogs anywhere.

comment provided by bigoldalphamale, content edited by hrdwareguy

hrdwareguy

For whatever reason the original poster does not like pit bulls. Granted, most of the time they get media attention anymore is when they attack someone. If this is all the information the original poster has to base their knowledge on, so be it.

It is not people like this that make it impossible for responsible pit bull owners to take their dogs places, it is the fault of the irresponsible pit bull owners.

That said, please keep this thread on topic.

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hrdwareguy

You may want to consider a Great Pyrenese. These dogs are great (Yes, I'm biased. I have 2). These dogs are very loving, loyal, and protective. They are great with kids and other animals. (I have a 2 year old and 2 cats as well) They make great house dogs and will generall just lay around and be lazy. Usually laying right where you want to be walking.

Originally they were bread for guarding sheep in the mountains so they are quite intelligent, this can sometimes be considered as being stubborn, but they are supposed to think for themselves.

Downsides to the great pyr, if you leave them outside all the time, they will dig when they get board and your yard will look like it was shelled by morters. If you keep it inside with you, no worries. It has long hair and sheds....alot. This dog sheds heavy twice a year and needs to be brushed out at least once a week durring this time.

Great pyrs are barkers, you have to train them when you want them to bark and when you don't.

If you decide to get a great pyr, find a reputable breeder and get one so you won't have any problems. As far as training, you need to take an active part in the training. Training a pyr is very difficult because they want to do their own thing. Many people confuse this with stubbornness and stop working with the dog, or get abbusive at this point.

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warrrreagl

Thanks, hrdwareguy. For the record, it is from personal experience that I don't like pit bulls, and I've earned my right to hate them.

The most productive part about this thread is that a Fila was recommended to us, I was very enthused about it, and I conducted a fair amount of web research. However, after getting the straight poop from several responsible TFP dog folks, I've come to believe it would be a mistake for us to get such a dog.

I'm starting to lean toward that German Shepherd, now.

Hey, mtsgsd, if we get a GSD, we don't have to give it Waffen-SS name, do we?

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mtsgsd

Great dogs all right. A friend of ours has two as well. One thing to consider is that they are huge, with a very dense fluffy coat. These are northern dogs and need very cool temps if they're going to be outside a lot. Might be a problem where you're going?

Oh yeah! If they decide they don't want to do something, well, it's like the joke about the 800 lb. gorilla! The two we know were leashed to a tree during a picnic so the owners could sit nearby and eat. One of them just bit thru the leash. Chomp! Just like that, and sauntered over. LOL

warrrreagl

For some reason, this sentence makes the dog oddly appealing to me....

Too much time with hyper-poodles, I guess.

The new research has begun, thanks.

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mtsgsd

No, I don't think that will be necessary.

My guys are pictured on another thread of owners pet pictures btw, can't remember what forum. Anyway, they would be a good fit, even if they aren't the only ones out there that would work. I should let the wife wax poetic about them, but one thing that works for you is that they are very loyal to the family, and tend to be aloof toward anyone else. Oh they'll say hello and be nice to strangers, but they do not go out of their way to do it, and do not trust on sight. If you an't in the Pack you ain't didly.

They are also one of those breeds surounded by hype. They're dangerous! They're not good with kids! They're only good as attack dog! This works great in your favour though, because the bad guys will think twice when they see them.

Ok, blatant plug here. Look into feeding them a natural diet too, instead of the kibble. They'll stay healthier and live longer. The wife's website that I posted a link to earlier is becoming a world-wide mecca for beginners to the diet. 'Course, that's why she made it.

warrrreagl

Beautiful dogs, and a great website. Lots of love there, it's easy to see.

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toxic515

my $.02 ...
Fila is a strong agressive and intelligent dog. They were commonly used in the US to hunt escaped slaves, as their tracking skills are amazing. now, from experience.. I have a yellow Lab and a Rott. Both are loving happy playful dogs. Most neighbors and meter readers are terrified of the rott. Truth told, you're very safe around them both, but if my children are outside, it's the lab that will strike first. My rottweiler gives all kinds of warning, and noise.. the Lab will bark... once... A lawn care guy working on my neighbors yard jumped the fence with a weedwhacker not long ago, and my daughter (6) was nearby and we wound up with one very frightened gentlman pinned on his back in the yard.. He wasn't hurt or bit, but the message was very very clear. THe Rottweiler was the only reason we knew about it in the house, because Buster (the lab) had never made much of a sound, but what a glorious display of teeth! Neither dog has had any training beyond being housebroken and lead trained.. but both are very protective of the children.. both tolerate amazing amounts of abuse from the kids (ear pulling, occasional tackling, taking food from bowls, etc.) without any adverse reaction at all, and both are very pleasant around guests as well. A family dog that loves the family, and has been raised with love, will likely be protective regardless of the breed. I've known pit bulls that were big ole' lap babies... it's all in the love and care from a pup.

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mtsgsd

Yes, it's all about the way they're raised. No breed is inherently vicious or mass-murdering. All the pits we see in the shelters are big puppy dogs. You'd think at least one wouldn't be...

We have some issue with our visiting rotts with one of our neighbors. They are scared of dogs in the first place, but have learned that our dogs are safe. Then the Rotts moved in. having a 120 lb. rott standing up on a 4' fence growling at you will make anyone nervous let alone someone who already has issues. Rotts do a lot of "grumbling" which can be mistaken for growling, but any sound they make is pretty scary.

The neighbor's husband told us that he'd "get a gun and shoot the dog" if it came over the fence at him. We really wanted to tell him that if it DID come over the fence to attack, it'd already be too late. As a result we are puting up a 6' stockade fence along that side of the property so the dogs can't see them. 330 feet of stockade fence. Oy.

Btw, I warned that Rotts are messy. My bad. He had just been doing a lot of running and playing before jumping up on my couch. I've since been made to notice that they haven't been like that any other time.

I haven't truly given an opinion yet so here's mine: GSD's or Rotts.
I have to admit the Rott will have 10 times more fear factor for a baddie.

hrdwareguy

I live in Oklahoma, gets kinda warm here. Thats why my 2 stay in the house usually. They go outside and play and potty, but most of the time they are inside.

Yep, pyrs have an enormous amount of jaw strength, something like 900 lbs per inch or something like that. I certainly wouldn't want to be bitten by one.

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drawerfixer

How'd things turn out?

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lurkette

A good tool is this dog breed selector that asks you all kinds of questions about characteristics you're looking for in a dog, as well as what kind of training/exercise/grooming you're willing to put into having a dog:

<a href="http://www.selectsmart.com/beta_dog/">http://www.selectsmart.com/beta_dog/</a>

You might also look at <a href="http://www.dogbreedinfo.com">www.dogbreedinfo.com</a> for information on specific breeds, including known health issues, breed characteristics, etc.

I would NOT NOT NOT get an aggressive breed dog from a rescue org unless you know the dog's history with 100% confidence - you do NOT want to be adopting a presia canario or a rotweiler or such with a history of abuse or aggression. It can make them unpredictable, and you need to be an extremely dominant, consistent and strict trainer. Raising a cocker doesn't prepare you for that.

You might want to look into a dog that's a good "watchdog" but not necessarily a dog breed with a tendency to aggression. An australian cattle dog (or blue heeler) is a compact, energetic breed that is easy to train and EXTREMELY loyal. They're unlikely to attack unless you are being attacked, but will bark and protect you unless you give them indication that a visitor is okay.

Above all, get a dog that you are confident you can command and control, and that has an activity level you are willing to commit to. A smart, trainable dog is likely to require a good deal of attention and training, and that goes double for ANY dog breed that has inbred aggression.

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kellerkline

I met a woman at a rare dogs show who raised Fila's. She would not let any stranger near them. I beleive this is her failure not the failure of the breed, however I would caution you against getting yourself into an agressive breed like a Fila or canario unless you're determined to train one.
Another Mastiff option would be the Neopolitian mastiff. I did a ton of research before I got mine, and I beleive them to be the best combo of guard instinct without the dangerous agression. It's hard to find really good pictures. I have an 8 month old Neo. She looks like an overgrown cross between a black lab and a Weimeriner. Check out www.neorescue.org
<img href="http://neorescue.org/images/newtopcorner.jpg">

kellerkline

oops
<img src="http://neorescue.org/images/newtopcorner.jpg">

TIO

My two cents: We have poodles. And not even the big ones; these are miniatures. But even they know when there's something wrong around the place, and they'll let us know. They stopped someone from stealing my old man's car one night when it was parked out the front...most people freak when they hear a dog bark, regardless of how big the dog is. At the very least, they'll let you know what's going on in time for you not to be surprised. And these two little poodles will also bite anyone they think is attacking us, and they'll bite pretty hard if they're certain that person isn't playing around. It won't incapacitate anyone, but it's enough of a distraction that I might get the upper hand in a fight. And I won't get sued when my dog bites someone's finger off.

The people across the road have two Alsatians. Every now and again, they take a disliking to our dogs. I've seen the lady who owns them lieing on the ground, on hand holding the leashes and the other hand holding a lamppost, and even then it was all she could do not to let them go. I've also seen her with a brace on one wrist and a cast on the other after they tried to bolt after another dog and she was holding the leads.

Sure, it's nice to have a big dog, but just make sure it's something you, your partner, and your kids and grandkids (if they exist) can also control.

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Strewth

TIO

One other thing: if you get a fair-sized dog and keep it inside, you won't have to do too much training to get it to protect you. It'll figure out who is a threat and attack them all on its own; dogs are pretty smart like that. Keeping it inside will lead to it respecting you enough to want to protect you without being asked.

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Strewth

yournamehere

Just a quick $.02 here.

About keeping the dog outside - please don't.
That's not having a pet - that's owning livestock.

Hook up some lights to motion detectors inside the fence perimeter if you want to be alerted if anything's out there - keep the dog inside where he can protect you.

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Beltruckus

I (familay) had a standard poodle for most of my time living at home and they are extremely protective of their home. As long as you get a female at least, and they have a very ferocious bark. Also a plus is that they do not shed at all, and are very good with kids. Alot of people don't like them because they think "oh poodle they are yappy dogs" but standard poodles are not at all like poodles. Very similar to Golden Retrievers in my opinion. Forgot to add they are extremely intelligent.

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