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Old 09-21-2006, 09:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Grand Junction, CO
Losing faith in Humanity

Do you ever feel like a ticking timebomb? I know I do, most of the time, and I need some advice.

I'm loosing faith in humanity. I just learned that someone at my college commited suicide today, and it's really depressing me. The thing that bugs me about it is that it probably could have been prevented. This kid was probably picked on on a daily basis, kept it all inside, like you are "supposed to", and couldn't take it anymore. Had people stopped being jackasses, this person would more than likely still be alive.

I try to be nice. I'm nice to the point that women don't feel attracted to me, and nice to the point that I am constantly picked on. I'm a sophomore in college, and I keep trying to convince myself that people will get better. That my life will turn around, that my niceness will heap rewards.

I've thought that for twenty years now, and I haven't gotten a damn thing out of it. I'm not at the point that I want to commit suicide, but I definitely could, if I'm everyone's doormat, like I always have been.

The suicide made me realize that I need to change my personality. I don't want to look at my life ten years from now, realize that I will never change, and off myself out of severe depression.

I am nice, not to make friends, but because I know that many people are assholes. I want to brighten people's lives, and let them know that someone cares. But the more I do this, the more I lose faith. I opened a door for a girl, and she yelled at me for it, telling me I was demeaning me.

I waved to a random male, and he threatened to kick my ass.

People tell me I'm skinny each day, and I turn the other cheek. They keep doing it. I am stolen from, and taken advantage of by most everyone I know, and I have recently been diagnosed with bi-polar disorder.

I need something to re-affirm my faith in humanity, god, and myself. I'm sick of this empty feeling.
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Old 09-21-2006, 10:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm a year older than you so I can't speak much from experience but I highly doubt that 2 decades of existence are enough to base the remainder of your existence upon.

I've felt the same way before and I realized that everything seemed so bleak because I hadn't completely realized that my life is my own to maintain. It's not so much about the rest of the world as it is about you and your feelings of discontent probably stem from a need for change - change that only you can facilitate.

I'm most certain that you're going through a transitional period right now. Just try to stay positive and focus mainly on the fact that things will be better once the answers come and the steps towards positive change become more apparent.

However, feeling suicidal is reason enough to consider professional help. As a college student you should be able to find plenty of on-campus assistance. I can not stress this further...
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Old 09-22-2006, 04:35 AM   #3 (permalink)
Oh dear God he breeded
 
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Soon, you will be on my side of the mirror. People suck, plan and simple. I wish I could tell you something better, but I can't. No matter where you go, there will be assholes that need to be removed from the human race. The up side, as you get older, they will get less vocal. All it takes is one good ass kicking and most people realise that people won't put up with their bull shit forever. I favor a good base ball bat for when it finnaly hits that point. As for the kid that killed himself. He was weak. He should be thanked for removeing defective genes from the race. And I have lost a good number of close friends who took that path, so yes, I understand, and no, I don't need to be more sypathetic. There are some people out there that are worth knowing. When you find one, hold on to them. As for the rest, fuck what they think. They are beneith you. The are the stepping stones you will use to get to where you need. Basicly, expect every person you meet to have the emotional and mental marturity of a 12 year old, you will rarely be surprised, and when you are, it will be a good thing. Keep on being a nice guy, the world needs more like you, just be more selective in what you will take from people, and who you are nice to.
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Old 09-22-2006, 06:13 AM   #4 (permalink)
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What college are you going to?

I can't imagine people acting like grade school bullies in college. I was a skinny geek my first two years of college, was too nice to women (figured that one out junior year), had only a few friends, yet no one was picking on me or threatening to kick my ass for waving.

A summer of weight lifting and my ephinany about the nature of women got me pretty much on track.

I went to a VERY large university. Nice thing about a big school is no matter what you are like, odds are there is a club, group, that sort of thing of like minded people and you have to go to an extreme to stand out.

So now for the tough love.

Quit being such a wuss. You can be an alpha male or you can be the omega, its up to you, but the problem with kicked puppies is that they allow themselves to be kicked.

So you need to take charge of your life and live it for you. Being nice is fine, you can still be nice, but there is such a thing as being too nice, its an invitation to be exploited and made fun of.

So hit the gym. Its boring and dull yea sure, but it beats being lifes doormat. This isn't so you can beat people up, its to get some self confidence in your system. I can tell you how many fights I've gotten into since being in better shape and how many people have thtreatened me, zero. Its not that I look super buff, its that I don't have the 'NOT THE FACE' body language, its self confidence. Don't be afraid to think of yourself first. You need to do this at times.
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Last edited by Ustwo; 09-22-2006 at 06:35 AM..
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Old 09-22-2006, 06:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
its self confidence
He speaks the truth. It sounds from your post that you just need someone to talk to. Set up an appointment with the counselor at your school and just talk to them about how you feel and what's going on in your life. You're not a horrible person, you're not "unworthy," and you most certianly shouldn't be feeling bad about being nice to people.

You have to realize that EVERYONE chooses their reactions to things. Perhaps by opening that door for that girl, it drove home to her the fact that she's never really been loved by anyone and never had anyone to open doors for her. She retaliates by lashing out. The guy that you waved to? Perhaps he's secretly harboring homosexual feelings and is terrified that someone would find out- so having a guy wave at him in a public place was a realization of those fears. I find that if people have non-standard reactions to things that are generally seen as being polite, then the person who has the reaction has some seriously screwed up things in their head.

Also, realize that you don't have to take humanity's burden upon yourself. Hell, you shouldn't even be concerned about it. With the building of self confidence, you'll be able to say "well, fuck you too!" whenever anyone is an ass to you, but because you won't be turning into an asshole yourself you won't actually say it out loud (thus adding to the overall sense of assholeishness in the world).

Quote:
Originally Posted by OP
I want to brighten people's lives, and let them know that someone cares.
Keep it up, because whether or not you realize it, it has a huge effect. Trust me
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Old 09-22-2006, 07:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I can relate to how you feel. I too used to be a doormat. It was part of my being nice to other people campaign. What has worked for me is to develop a backbone. You can be nice and still stick up for your rights and comforts. Don't let anyone push you around. What I do is I give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I try being nice first. If they say something to me that ticks me off, ususally it's "You're so short", I feel that I am allowed to say something back to them along those lines. Like, "You're really smart aren't you?", "And you're ugly", or "You're fat". In other words, I get to pick something obvious about them too. Yeah, it's not that nice but what are you going to do. Stand there and let them treat you like shit? Believe me, once you can develop the strength to do something like that people's attitudes about you will change. Some people are nasty to you initially as a way of testing you. I'm not sure why some people do that. Also, be courteous but not overly polite. This can be misinterpreted. As far as the holding the door for that woman (girl more likely). She just sounds like a wrong headed feminist. I am a feminist but I do not get offended at courtesies like that unless I was like more than about 10 feet away and it just seems like the dude is holding it open as a way to cop a feel. Yeah, that's happened. Just ignore it. What I find works is just hold open the door to either sex if they're like 10 feet away from you. But this might not work for you since I'm a woman.

You've got to learn to love yourself and realize that your needs are more important to you than other's. Is this selfish? Yes, but it's the only way you'll learn to be happy. And don't take that literally. Like don't break any laws. Just learn to do things that make you happy. Also don't wave at people you don't know. That's just creepy.

Oh, and one last thing. There's no such thing as being too nice to women. This world needs more nice guys. Girls like bad boys. Women like good men. Or at least I do.

Last edited by Impetuous1; 09-22-2006 at 07:13 AM..
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Old 09-22-2006, 07:33 AM   #7 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impetuous1
Oh, and one last thing. There's no such thing as being too nice to women. This world needs more nice guys. Girls like bad boys. Women like good men. Or at least I do.

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Women will say they want nice, they may even think so, but what they want is a high status male. Nice guys listen to them bitch about their boyfriends being jerks, but oddly never get to be that boyfriend.

The problem with being the 'nice' guy is that nice guys really do finish last. If you are always willing to let others 'win' you are by default going to be a loser. It doesn't mean you have to be a jerk, but you can't be so afraid of hurting someones feelings or getting someone mad at you that you win. Being competative and sure of yourself will do more for a man looking for a woman than all of the opened doors and flowers in the world will.

Women like winners, there is a reason for the cliche of the captain of the football team taking the hot cheerleader to the prom.
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Old 09-22-2006, 07:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Location: Arizona
I guess I've just never been the hot cheerleader type.

My current boyfriend is pretty nice. I talk to him about everything. We even talk about feelings. ***gasp*** But we probably are the exception since in general I'm more the uh...male one in the relationship. He was the one who whined about romance in the beginning not me. Though that's not always the case. In some instances he becomes the male and I revert back to the female role. Not sure if that makes much sense.

Oh and he's not a high status male. I have more status than he does. I've always been very independent. I tend to see high status males as being too busy to have any real time for the women in their lives. That does not appeal to me.

Last edited by Impetuous1; 09-22-2006 at 07:49 AM..
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Old 09-22-2006, 08:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Nice guys do not finish last. I am marrying one of them in 3 weeks, and I don't know anyone who is more gentle, humble, and sincerely kind than he is. He also knows how to kick ass when it's necessary, might I add, but has no desire whatsoever to be an alpha male. Nor would I ever marry an alpha male. Then again, as with impetuous1, I have a very assertive personality and we match up very well in that sense. I see us as complete equals, and I know he feels the same. Once again, I would not be marrying someone who believed any differently.

Who cares about what guys are "supposed" to be? Be who you are, without fear or insecurity, and they will come. But first you have to work on that insecurity... and I highly recommend counseling, too. I've been there, plenty of my male and female friends have been there, and I respect people more who go to counseling than those who adamantly refuse.

But that's just my opinion.
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Old 09-22-2006, 08:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abaya
nce again, I would not be marrying someone who believed any differently.

Who cares about what guys are "supposed" to be? Be who you are, without fear or insecurity, and they will come. But first you have to work on that insecurity... and I highly recommend counseling, too. I've been there, plenty of my male and female friends have been there, and I respect people more who go to counseling than those who adamantly refuse.

But that's just my opinion.
Alpha males don't go to conseling

One line you won't hear from a successful male....

"Well my therapist told me that i was...."
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Old 09-22-2006, 09:06 AM   #11 (permalink)
32 flavors and then some
 
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When I dated guys, I dated both alpha males and nice guys. I much preferred the nice guys.

Gilda
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Old 09-22-2006, 09:09 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Location: Iceland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Alpha males don't go to conseling

One line you won't hear from a successful male....

"Well my therapist told me that i was...."
Yes, yes, Ustwo, we've gone over this before. You know how I feel, and I know how you feel. But I don't think you speak the absolute truth in this case (nor do I)... it's relative.

I'm just letting people know that not *all* women think men should be tough and strong and ready to fight, because some of us think it's unhealthy and sets a poor example for their own children's confidence and emotional wholeness. Not to mention that if a male does mention going to counseling (not casually in public/small talk, but when talking one-on-one with a trusted person), I find it very impressive and a mark of personal success.

I could care less how much a man makes, what kind of academic degrees he has, or how big his muscles (or other body parts) are. If the man is not emotionally intelligent(or at least not working on becoming so), he goes straight down the drain for me. I really admire people's work on themselves, and the ability to ask for help when needed; it speaks volumes to me of their character and humility.
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Old 09-22-2006, 09:29 AM   #13 (permalink)
Mistress of Mayhem
 
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Location: Canton, Ohio
My sympathies for your loss. I understand where you are coming from. It has been over a decade since I was in college and high school type bullies reigned. My first day I heard two upper classmen tormenting a freshman about the size of his penis. Seriously, did they not have something to study for? What did they hope to gain? People like that are quite commonplace and I hold them all in the same league with boils on the butt of humanity. They are big, they stand out and their warped priorities are full of puss.

I do however feel that you can overcome this in time. It will help you to toughen up. I feel that it is sad that we have to toughen ourselves up for life but we do. Otherwise it will eat us alive. Personally I am offended by how blank I can be in some instances, but we all do what we have to to get by.
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Old 09-22-2006, 10:05 AM   #14 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
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Tangent alert!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by abaya
Yes, yes, Ustwo, we've gone over this before. You know how I feel, and I know how you feel. But I don't think you speak the absolute truth in this case (nor do I)... it's relative.

I'm just letting people know that not *all* women think men should be tough and strong and ready to fight, because some of us think it's unhealthy and sets a poor example for their own children's confidence and emotional wholeness. Not to mention that if a male does mention going to counseling (not casually in public/small talk, but when talking one-on-one with a trusted person), I find it very impressive and a mark of personal success.

I could care less how much a man makes, what kind of academic degrees he has, or how big his muscles (or other body parts) are. If the man is not emotionally intelligent(or at least not working on becoming so), he goes straight down the drain for me. I really admire people's work on themselves, and the ability to ask for help when needed; it speaks volumes to me of their character and humility.
I'm going to have to ask why does having problems/issues bad enough to require paying an outsider to help you cope = personal success? That sounds like saying going to the cardiologist for a heart murmur = a healthy heart.

I would think being emotionally stable is a rather desirable trait for a male.

I think the crux of the issue is the basic natural differences between men and women. Women talk out their problems, its how you are wired, so if you have no one to listen to you I can understand where a counselor would be of use, if for nothing else then someone to talk to. Male brains are not set up in such a fashion. This is why some of us men think of therapy as an effeminate act instinctively. Men just don’t do that nor do they have the need for it. Since there are degrees of masculine/feminine brains, I'm sure there are some men who can benefit much like a woman, and I'm willing to bet a weeks pay that these men are more effeminate in other ways too, being less competitive for example.. Likewise perhaps these men are more desirable to dominant women who think more along male thought patterns. Just to be clear I'm not making this up as I go along, most psychologists are finally starting to grudgingly admit boys are not boys because we teach them to act like boys, but because we are wired to think that way from the start, and the same applies to women. Also sex differences are not absolute, men do better, on average than women at spacial tasks, but the best woman is going to be better at them than the worst man. The same applies to social skills where women are better on average than men but not all women are better than all men at them.

So I think its fair to say that ...

Most men have no use for counseling.
Some men do.

Most women prefer men who are dominant to other males (vague term, it doesn't mean beats them all up)
Some prefer the more sensitive, social male.

But I still think the OP needs the gym a hell of a lot more than a therapist
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Old 09-22-2006, 11:09 AM   #15 (permalink)
“Wrong is right.”
 
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Dungeon_Shade - you need to find something you're into. As Ustwo mentioned, there must be a club or group of some kind at your college that your interested in. Even a course? We all need to follow a certain interest that is central to our lives. Some make a job out of it, some make a career. For others, it becomes who they are. Without it it's no surprise you're feeling depressed.

Of course the bi-polar disorder has a lot to do with it and you'll need to find a way of dealing with that. I won't pretend to even begin to know how.

And the gym... is a good idea. Our mental and emotional well being has a lot to do with our physical fitness. Some of us on the board may see the gym and therapy as mutually exclusive things. You can always do both. Therapy aids in our commitment to solving problems - which necessarily exist as a product of our multi-faceted world - as opposed being cowardly and saying "ahhh I don't need therapy." It's 2006 after all, not the 1950s.
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Old 09-22-2006, 11:19 AM   #16 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aberkok
It's 2006 after all, not the 1950s.
But our brains are still 300,000 BC.

Edit: are = our, my brain hurts today it seems.
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Last edited by Ustwo; 09-22-2006 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 09-22-2006, 12:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Location: Grand Junction, CO
Thanks for the advice. I have always heard that going to the gym helps maintain a healthy perspective on life, but I never seemed to believe it. I read the replies on this board, went to work out for the first time in a long time, and I already feel better.

I guess the kid's suicide showed me that it is time to start doing what I want this instant. I always put off self improvement, saying that I will do it tomorrow, and I think that's one of my biggest problems.
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Old 09-22-2006, 12:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Location: Arizona
Good for you Dungeon Shade! I'm glad you've decided to use this event as a nexus to a better future.
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Old 09-22-2006, 01:06 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
it is time to start doing what I want this instant. I always put off self improvement, saying that I will do it tomorrow, and I think that's one of my biggest problems.
Exactomundo my friend. Its latter than you think, know yourself.
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Old 09-22-2006, 07:10 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Alpha males are the best at making babies.
But the other males are the best at raising them.

High testosterone has its limitations.

Be careful of referring to pop psychology when it comes to male and female comparisons. Men are not from Mars, women are not from Venus.

Alpha males don't go to counselling because they're afraid to reveal their weaknesses because they don't want to give up their perceived superiority. This doesn't mean they don't have emotional problems. Most do because they don't understand emotions and are therefore subverted by them. This might explain instances of both male-female and male-male violence.

Women are attracted to alpha males for their physical attributes, but realize these males' shortcomings when it comes to child rearing.

Dungeon_Shade, hit the gym if you truly feel compelled to, but don't look at it as the solution to this problem because you will set yourself up for failure. Your college population is not representative of the rest of the world. Once you get out into the real world, it becomes easier to associate with those that share your interests and views on life. The gym is one thing, but consider other things that will round you out as an individual. Try reading good books or developing a meaningful talent (that is, if you don't already). These make you more interesting and self-confident and act as deterrents to people who want to treat you poorly.

And when it comes to being "nice" to women (or men, for that matter), it's important to be authentic. The people that will matter most to you in life will be attracted to that.
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Old 09-22-2006, 11:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
Alpha males are the best at making babies.
But the other males are the best at raising them.
This I'll agree is generally true, but we are talking about getting the girl in the first place to have a chance to make the baby. You need to learn how to act like an alpha male even if deep inside you just want to cuddle

Quote:
High testosterone has its limitations.

Be careful of referring to pop psychology when it comes to male and female comparisons. Men are not from Mars, women are not from Venus.
Be careful about assuming I even give a second look at pop psychology. I spent a good deal of time as an evolutionary biologist, thats where I get my data. The mind of a woman is DIFFERENT than the mind of a man, period. This is why boys pick up language so slowly and like to hit things with sticks, in fact boys don't catch up to girls in social skills and the ability to learn via text until about age 12, and then guess what happens at age 12? The first testosterone plus to a male fetal brain sets the pattern. Children don't have different testosterone levels but the change has already happened.

Quote:
Alpha males don't go to counselling because they're afraid to reveal their weaknesses because they don't want to give up their perceived superiority.
This sounds more like pop psychology to me, the same type of psychology that says violent people have low self esteem when in reality the problem with most violent people is they have way to much self esteem.

I'm a married man and when I'd come home from work my wife would want to tell me about her day, in detail, and about what Bob said and Jane did and how Jill pissed her off and blah blah blah. As many married men learn we turn off part of our brain lest it asplode when this happens. Now if I had a bad day she would want to hear about it, and the last thing I do when I get home is want to talk about the day, I know I'm not alone in this as a man. It’s a cliche but its not a learned behavior, its part of who we are and how we evolved. Women are far more verbal.

Quote:
This doesn't mean they don't have emotional problems. Most do because they don't understand emotions and are therefore subverted by them. This might explain instances of both male-female and male-male violence.
Calling violence and emotional problem trivializes something innate in humans and most animals. Violence is part of who we are because it works so well. We are the products of violent, warlike people. Its not deep seated emotional problems, but instinct. When someone strikes you, you don't get angry and strike back because of having emotional problems, its because your bodies chemistry goes into survival mode and gets you ready to kill or be killed, or run like hell. I would say that people who are violent because of emotional issues end up in trouble quite quickly as their violence is not calculated. Murder is an innate male characteristic, it does not require emotional issues, it might often be dumb, but a man doesn't shoot a bank teller to get the cash because of emotional issues, it’s a calculated risk, its only todays law enforcement that makes such risks poor bets.

Quote:
Women are attracted to alpha males for their physical attributes, but realize these males' shortcomings when it comes to child rearing.
Physical attributes are only a part of what makes an alpha male. I work with 15 women, often an attractive man will become a patient and they will do what women in groups do which is talk about it. If that man doesn't have the personality of an alpha male as well they very quickly lose interest. What makes an alpha male is also status. Wealth, fame, power, all contribute to make an alpha male in a females eyes. Last I recall Bill Gates had a hot wife, but I wouldn't trade for his physical attributes, unless you are including wealth and personality as physical attributes (though I don't think its his personality that won her over). As for the poor child rearing, it depends on the species and the goal. Part of child rearing is resources, if a man is very rich, it doesn't matter how much time he takes with the child, the child and the mother are taken care of. This is the instinct that females have that helps choose who they mate with. Being a good provider is attractive. The concept that the superior males will be less attentive parents comes from animals where the male will have many extra matings. Then it becomes a trade off with child rearing vrs superior genes. Humans are not as ridged in this, and while a sultan my not give much attention to all the children in his harem, they would have been FAR better off than being the children of two poor parents, this situation is now rare in the western world. I think you are equating alpha male with untamed aggression and polygamy, which is not required for be a dominant male.

Quote:
Dungeon_Shade, hit the gym if you truly feel compelled to, but don't look at it as the solution to this problem because you will set yourself up for failure. Your college population is not representative of the rest of the world. Once you get out into the real world, it becomes easier to associate with those that share your interests and views on life. The gym is one thing, but consider other things that will round you out as an individual. Try reading good books or developing a meaningful talent (that is, if you don't already). These make you more interesting and self-confident and act as deterrents to people who want to treat you poorly.
I know when I read a book I feel better able to take on lifes bullies

Exercise will produce chemical changes which I think will improve the situation far better than any book or hobby. A good work out need not take all day, there is still time for both, and speaking from personal experience at age 19, women didn't care that I was well read and was good with computers (that was a skill back then), they thought I was very smart, but that didn't seem to peek their interest in me sexually. Three months of working out later I was dating 3 women, and I ended up marrying one of them, we've been together for 15 years, I'm a good provider, and I just took care of my crying son while posting this and she slept, so I think I'm ok as a father.

I also disagree that its easier to find like minded people after college. Depending on where you are and what you do, it can be very difficult to meet new people. Perhaps what I miss most about school was the diversity of the people and the easy ability to make friends of your own age and place in life.

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And when it comes to being "nice" to women (or men, for that matter), it's important to be authentic. The people that will matter most to you in life will be attracted to that.
Being who you are IS important. When I tell a man not to be 'nice' what it really means is don't be smothering, don't show too much interest, basically play it cool. To do otherwise is to not understand the underlying unconscious drives of women. These drives are too look for the best possible mate for their children, and while the average woman at a bar isn't thinking 'boy he has good genes, I want him to mate with me to produce superior children' it is what drives 'attraction'. By letting a woman know she 'has' you early in the relationship before pair bonding is to invite her to look to see if she can get something even better. Men have similar unconscious drives, though we look for different traits. Those traits are why the titty board is full of young, mostly under 25, thin females and not grandmothers. Its also why the full monty board is almost empty. We are different mentally, with slightly different means of achieving the same genetic goals.
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Old 09-23-2006, 02:22 AM   #22 (permalink)
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It doesn't take being an Alpha male to get women... it takes confidence.

To stretch this tired analogy, you can be some greek letter between Alpha and Omega. You do not have to be an overconfident jerk and you don't have to be a mama's boy... you just need to have the confidence to act on what you want.

I say it enough... it's all about balance. You need to know when to push your agenda ahead of others and when to step back and let someone else do their thing. You need to know when to be forceful and when to lay off. You don't have to be a nice guy all the time, just when it matters (and vice versa).
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Old 09-23-2006, 04:31 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Sounds like you live around a lot of assholes.

I also am a very nice person, but I generally am only nice to those I know. The unknowns I generally ignore, unless prompted.

Also, being nice doesn't necessarily mean you are obligated to take shit from people. I'm only really concerned with being nice to those I care about, but random assholes are not worth the effort.

Being "cool" in society seems to often be tied in very closely to being an asshole, as raising one's status above another (in the eyes of peers) often comes as a result of degrading or defacing someone else. It's unfortunate, but it's reality.

Personally, I would not stop being nice. I would stop taking shit from assholes - you won't lose the nice guy label in the eyes of those that matter - because there is no benefit to putting up with their bullshit.

I certainly would not stop being nice with the intent of getting a girl. Regardless of whether assholes get the girls or not, if you truly aren't one, you will be faking, and ultimately doing a disservice to both you and your partner. You can't change others, and you shouldn't change yourself; at least not in the direction you are possibly desiring.

Being a nice guy myself, I've been taken advantage of, taken for granted, fallen out of contact with "friends" until they suddenly needed a favor, etc. With time you realize who are friends, and who are just acquaintances. It's something you have to deal with, and the above instances often seem to be a result from people finding the pleasant benefits of a true "nice guy," not putting things into perspective, and taking advantage of the said nice guy, without necessarily holding up their end of the friendship. I'm a firm believer that friendships take work, and many people just aren't willing to put forth any sort of effort, instead just reaping the benefits for free.

Lastly, I would recommend you be true to your self. You have to be selfish and do what's best for you, because generally there aren't many people out there looking out for any of us. The individual is most important, and while there is still plenty of time to be friendly and help others, you also must look out for your own best interests first.
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Old 09-23-2006, 06:22 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Calling violence and emotional problem trivializes something innate in humans and most animals. Violence is part of who we are because it works so well. We are the products of violent, warlike people. Its not deep seated emotional problems, but instinct. When someone strikes you, you don't get angry and strike back because of having emotional problems, its because your bodies chemistry goes into survival mode and gets you ready to kill or be killed, or run like hell. I would say that people who are violent because of emotional issues end up in trouble quite quickly as their violence is not calculated.
This body chemistry thing... going into survival mode and killing or running... I would say is an emotional response. It is based in the fear of death and a desire to live.

All the stuff you said about alpha males makes sense, except you didn't mention that other males types (especially if they have "won the resources required to raise a child") are preferred choices for raising children because of their abilities to form emotional relationships. Women are good at spotting men who can do this because it is a factor in raising children. They ideally want men who will stick around and give more than just a genetic investment. As you know, humans are a complex species, especially considering our incomparably long juvenile stage. Men who are more balanced are the ones preferred for long-term relationships (i.e. pair-bonding theory). This may also explalin instances of cuckoldry, where women have affairs with "alpha males" despite being in a relationship with "sub-alpha male". The are temporarily attracted to the alphas, but value the long-term bond with the more balanced males.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:16 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I don't know what to say about the bi-polar disorder thing and it is best to follow your doctor's advice in that regard.

However, as long as you think yourself to be a victim, you will be one. After all you are a winner in the game of life on this planet and it is probably time you realized it and make the best of your good fortune.

Of all the ancient species on this planet your ancestors survived even though 99% of them became extinct. Of all the primates your ancestors made it to human status. Of all the humans your ancestors survived at least to the time you were born. Against all odds you made it. You surely must have ingrained in you the ability to thrive and prosper. Everyone in your lineage has found a way.

IMHO, if someone bitches because they think you are too nice that's their problem, you are who you are. I don't think you have to fight every bully out there to still have self respect and confidence in your self. You cannot always control the actions of others but you can control your perspective on things.
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Old 09-23-2006, 09:51 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlatan
It doesn't take being an Alpha male to get women... it takes confidence.

To stretch this tired analogy, you can be some greek letter between Alpha and Omega. You do not have to be an overconfident jerk and you don't have to be a mama's boy... you just need to have the confidence to act on what you want.

I say it enough... it's all about balance. You need to know when to push your agenda ahead of others and when to step back and let someone else do their thing. You need to know when to be forceful and when to lay off. You don't have to be a nice guy all the time, just when it matters (and vice versa).
This is very true because alpha male does NOT apply to humans. I used it because its a term people use normally incorectly to mean a confident, dominant male. A true alpha would be like the alpha in a wolf pack that does ALL the mating, and a true omega would be the one eating last, etc. This does not work in humans, our basic system is a lot more complex.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:28 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dungeon_Shade
I've thought that for twenty years now, and I haven't gotten a damn thing out of it. I'm not at the point that I want to commit suicide, but I definitely could, if I'm everyone's doormat, like I always have been.
I was a doormat for a long time. I was a people pleaser and put everyone's happiness over my own. So much so, that I got a degree and started a career that I didn't want because of my mom. This led me into a miserable life and suicide was comtemplated often.

You wanted advice. Unfortunately, I don't really know you, only a situational part of you, so advice is difficult for me to give. I can tell you what I did and that will be my 2 cents.

First, I got pissed. I was so mad that I was living for everyone else and not for myself. I did go to therapy. My family got extremely mad because "Therapy is for losers and wimps that can't handle life." Well, whatever, it helped me see things clearer because I could talk to someone that had no connection in my life or any stakes in my decisions in the future. Then, I started standing up to people. I started with people close to me. At first, I felt like the biggest bitch. What I found out was that what seemed bitchy to me was still nice. In my new career, I had to get a backbone and I had to tell people like it was and not sugar-coat it. This has been more beneficial than anything.

However, at the point you are at now, you need to learn to put yourself first more and not other people. Pleasing others is not your goal. People are responsible for their own happiness. This does not mean that you can't be nice. But you do have to understand that not everyone is going to be nice back at you. And those people...well you need to learn to say 'Fuck them' and move on. I would also suggest talking to someone. Role-playing is good for learning to be more assertive. There are also books available that you can check out. If you want to improve yourself to be happier, you have to do it on your own and put effort in it. No one else can change you and it's not going to happen overnight. Good luck!

Oh and by the way, there are still people out there who like random waves and opened doors. It always makes me feel good when a guy lets me out of the elevator first, lets me get on the bus ahead of him, and opens a door for me. Hmmm...of course that means I'm walking ahead of them, maybe they just want to watch me walk away.
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Old 09-23-2006, 10:12 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I didn't have time to read the entire thread, but from the OP and first few replies by other posters, I get the feeling that you are being overly nice.

I think one of the posters replies was pretty good; you can be nice but you gotta have backbone. If people even give you one ounce of shit, you just: talk back, or walk away, or both.

I think once you develop more self confidence (something that I and most people have to go through I believe), you will learn to project a 'be nice but I don't take no shit' aura and people can feel that, just by the way you look at them, and the way you talk to them (if you even talk).

And usually, if someone doesn't look like they are worthy of being nice to (as in the girl who lashed out at you for holding the door open), you don't have to be nice to them. I think being nice is good, but you can't be nice to everyone..

I think one of the keys to success is knowing how to deal with all sorts of people. Different people require different ways of communication, and you have to learn to see each person reacts and how to interact with them. That doesn't mean you're not being true to yourself; your character is still the same, but you can adapt your personality as you see fit (that last sentence is from Covey).

Oh yeah, if you are feeling truly suicidal, definitely go talk to a few counselors. They can really help you out alot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shesus
Oh and by the way, there are still people out there who like random waves and opened doors. It always makes me feel good when a guy lets me out of the elevator first, lets me get on the bus ahead of him, and opens a door for me. Hmmm...of course that means I'm walking ahead of them, maybe they just want to watch me walk away.
If you are a girl which sounds like it they probably wanna look at your ass.

Last edited by match000; 09-23-2006 at 10:17 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 09-23-2006, 11:24 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
If you are a girl which sounds like it they probably wanna look at your ass.
I always let women have the right of way (unless I'm driving), and I assure you, its not for that reason.
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Old 09-23-2006, 11:46 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Yeah, I do it out of courtesy when I feel like it. As my 70 year old next door neighbor says, "There are very few of us gentlemen left, Match." That has been what has been keeping me to be as chivalrous as I can.
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Old 09-24-2006, 11:32 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I had a major breakthrough today, and I only hope that it's a permanent one. I decided to eat at a different table in the cafeteria today, which is a major change for me, and I didn't talk much. I get in these moods where I just observe stuff, and get all introverted. Normally, I would get self concious about my introversion, but lately, it has been different. I use those times to learn.

Anyhow, a very, very good looking girl that I had never met before was talking to me. I chose to ignore her. I eventually decided to talk, when she said that I am too quiet. I replied with something short and funny, and continued to be quiet. She kept trying to get my attention, and I would, very obviously, as if I were teasing her, not talk. This went on for a few minutes, and she started using very sexual language.

I chose to be unimpressed, because, honestly, I wasn't, and it bugged the crap out of her. Eventually, her she and her equally hot friends left, and instead of feeling like crap, I was proud of myself.

I had done what I want to do, not what I thought others wanted me to do. Later, one of her friends came up to me, and told me that all of the girls thought I am extremely hot.

Somehow, I have noticed other changes in myself. I'm already, very quickly gaining weight, my posture is getting better, and I'm able to say "no". People that I don't know are saying "hi" to me, and I'm beginning to feel like a different person. I had no idea that it could happen so fast.

Here's hoping that I continue on this upward trend.
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Old 09-25-2006, 02:55 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dungeon_Shade

Here's hoping that I continue on this upward trend.
You will.....................excellent job
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Old 09-25-2006, 05:05 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Forget all the bullshit about being a dominant male and all that crap.

And forget all the bullshit about being a nice guy.

I appreciate your impulse to make the world better by not being an asshole. And I appreciate everyone else's impulse to help you not be "that guy" - the one who's stepped on by everyone because he is a "nice" person. But there's something nobody in here seemed to mention (well, Ustwo mentioned it but it got lost in all the "alpha or omega" crap):

TRY BEING YOURSELF.

There's nothing wrong with being nice. And there's nothing wrong with being assertive. Where people get themselves into trouble is doing those things in order to get something, at the cost of their true personality, or to cover up some insecurity. And more often than not, it just eats away at your soul.

I'm very glad you took some positive steps to get yourself out of this cycle. Try to keep expanding your comfort boundaries, and keep taking care of yourself. And discard any advice that doesn't sound like "to thine own self be true."
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:01 AM   #34 (permalink)
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yea but the next time a girl starts talking sexual on you you gotta move on that shit man, gotta take care of yo bizness
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:55 PM   #35 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dungeon_Shade
I had a major breakthrough today, and I only hope that it's a permanent one. I decided to eat at a different table in the cafeteria today, which is a major change for me, and I didn't talk much. I get in these moods where I just observe stuff, and get all introverted. Normally, I would get self concious about my introversion, but lately, it has been different. I use those times to learn.

Anyhow, a very, very good looking girl that I had never met before was talking to me. I chose to ignore her. I eventually decided to talk, when she said that I am too quiet. I replied with something short and funny, and continued to be quiet. She kept trying to get my attention, and I would, very obviously, as if I were teasing her, not talk. This went on for a few minutes, and she started using very sexual language.

I chose to be unimpressed, because, honestly, I wasn't, and it bugged the crap out of her. Eventually, her she and her equally hot friends left, and instead of feeling like crap, I was proud of myself.

I had done what I want to do, not what I thought others wanted me to do. Later, one of her friends came up to me, and told me that all of the girls thought I am extremely hot.

Somehow, I have noticed other changes in myself. I'm already, very quickly gaining weight, my posture is getting better, and I'm able to say "no". People that I don't know are saying "hi" to me, and I'm beginning to feel like a different person. I had no idea that it could happen so fast.

Here's hoping that I continue on this upward trend.
Hehe by not talking to them you made them interested.

Thats how it works, and a nice guy woulda lost their attention very quickly.

Instead of getting attention like hot girls are used to, they had to work for yours, I could write another expose on this, but its one of non-intuative things in dating.
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:57 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Well, congrats on the relatively quick turn-around. Sounds like you're getting the idea really quickly--lucky you!

Like shesus explained, you are the only one responsible for your happiness. No one else is, and in the same way, you are not responsible for anyone else's happiness.

But if I was you, and I held a door open for a chick who yelled at me for it, my standard response to an incident like that is a gently reproachful, "I think what you mean to say is 'Thank you'" while looking them steadily right in the eye. Lots of sucess with that one, and often times opens the door (no pun intended!) for more and positive interaction.

You did perfectly with those *hot chicks*, lol!

And good posture is very very important and under-rated. Keep up the great work!
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Old 09-26-2006, 04:47 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Hehe by not talking to them you made them interested.

Thats how it works, and a nice guy woulda lost their attention very quickly.

Instead of getting attention like hot girls are used to, they had to work for yours, I could write another expose on this, but its one of non-intuative things in dating.
Hey, Ustwo, are you referring to "The Game"? If so, maybe you should elaborate a bit on the power of the "neg"...
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Old 09-26-2006, 05:31 PM   #38 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
Hey, Ustwo, are you referring to "The Game"? If so, maybe you should elaborate a bit on the power of the "neg"...
Never heard of it. Just going by what I figured out on my own some 17 years ago, but I think its pretty universal so I doubt I'm the only one to figure it out
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Old 09-27-2006, 07:16 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I feel as if I'm in the same boat...

I'm currently in therapy, and it is helping me to understand what everyone else is saying about being able to rely on one's self.

I'm on my fifth day in a row at the gym. I'm proud of me. For the first time in a long while.
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Old 09-27-2006, 08:33 PM   #40 (permalink)
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i havent been to the gym in 2 weeks straight, before that i had gone for a month straight and my stomach was kinda getting flat and you could almost see faint two-pack but now my stomach is fat again
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