lindalove

This is the latest bit of gossip at my office. A 50-something year old co-worker, who is very athletic and very thin, shows up Monday after a mysterious 'vacation', sporting brand new D-cups. She was very small breasted prior to the surgery, so it's a *noticeable* difference.

Here's the part of this that makes me sad. She told me that she got it done because her husband wanted her to. UGH. She has the saddest look on her face this week....I don't think she wanted to get this done, it was ALL about her husband's 'wants'. This poor woman has the worst body image imaginable. She runs 5 miles daily, works out like a fiend, and her hubby will yell at her in the grocery store, "Don't even look at those pastries, you'll get fat!"

Seriously, this woman is probably 5'7" or so, and she looks to be in size 6/8 jeans. But she's constantly going on and on about how 'fat' she is and how she needs to lose weight. She drinks herbal tea all day and doesn't eat. Many of us are concerned for her.

Aside from all that, I just feel so bad that she got implants not for herself, but for her husband, because 'he wanted them.' I would be LIVID if my man told me he wanted me to have ANY kind of plastic surgery.

Anyway. I just feel really bad for her.

Willravel

Plastic surgery is something that I have spent a lot of time thinking about. On the one hand, your body is a gift from God or fate or whom/whatever. It's something that is truely yours and should be cherished enough for you to take care of it. I've been fat and skinny, and I know what living life in each of those bodies can mean, but I always was me for me. I don't need to impress anyone with giant balls or pecks. This body is mine, and I will b e the judge of it. On the other hand, self esteem is something that is very important. It takes a great deal of strength to either come to terms with how you look or change how you look. Plastic surgery isn't as easy as laying down for a few hours and then suddenly being a supermodel. It takes time to heal, and it can be quite painful...but for some people it is a reasonable solution. Some people do work hard to maintain a great body, but just need a little help in the love handels. Some women simply want slightly larger breasts for themselves.

Enter the woman at work. Here is a wonderful, dedicated, successful woman who lives for her husband; in a bad way. I am very concerned for her because not only she has a poor self image, but the poor self image is perpetuated by her husband (an ass). I feel a great deal of pity for her, and I hope she can come to love herself.

Chamaeleontidae

Well said willravel... I have always had an issue with recreational cosmetic surgery, whether it's making your lips look like someone punched you or recreational boobs.

Sadly, it doesn't sound like he will ever be satisfied, and she'll have to endure the back pain and further degredation of her self esteem.

__________________
"Reality is just a crutch for people who can't cope with drugs."
Robin Williams.

ShaniFaye

I have to take issue with the statement " I would be LIVID if my man told me he wanted me to have ANY kind of plastic surgery"...let me explain why

there ARE some things that NEED to be done for medical reasons, take me for example. I have known since I was in my 20's that I needed breast reduction. Rashes that wont go away, under boob cysts that get infected, constant marks from my bra, back aches so badly I cannot stand at a kitchen sink for 3 minutes (literally) without hurting so badly I have to take pain meds, not being able to go shopping anywhere with concrete floors, this includes grocery stores without taking something for pain, migraines, the non ability to exercise from boob pain....I was being chicken about plastic surgery.

After the breast cancer scare earlier this year 3 different dr's wanted me to consult with a plastic surgeon to get this taken care of. I made an appt....called in June, they could see me the end of August. For a week I tried to convince Dave I was too scared to go, he point blank flat out told me...I will tie you up and put you in the car and take you myself if you dont....Im ordering you to go.

As most people know...the insurance company approved the surgery and next month I will have between 650-800 grams per boob removed (wont know until he gets in and see's exactly what the inside of my boobs consist of)

so yes in a way Dave WANTS me to go. I realize in my case its for MY own good and I was being stubborn....I just wanted to point out that a husband CAN have a legitimate excuse for asking you to have plastic surgery. I will have smaller perkier boobs....I will for the first time since I was a teenager be able to exercise...on the downside, I will prob have boobs that keep me from future "exhibition" posts that include my boobs because of the scarring....Dave will have to look at permanent scars on them for the rest of my life, and yet he wants it.

As for enhancement...that guy should be accused of mental cruelty

sorry for the rant...like I said, since you didnt qualify your statement I thought I would defend NEEDED plastic surgery

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cyrnel

Maybe she's working on a mental abuse lawsuit? I hope so.

What a prick.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Manic_Skafe

What a shame.

It's a terrible situation but let's not forget that this situation is much more her fault then it is his. We live in a world of people who'd love to impose their desires on everyone else - you'd think that after 50 years of existence she'd have built up enough belief in herself to model her own body to her desires. If she's willing to alter her body to such an extreme extent simply because her husband wants her to then they're perfect for each other in a horribly toxic way.

Hopefully her new breasts precipitate some sort of positive change in her life.

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Toaster126

While I agree somewhat with your OP, I would like more exploration into why it is bad for someone to want their SO to get plastic surgery. People can and possibly should do things for their SO in order to make them more attractive to them. Is the line drawn at surgery, or do you think all cosmetic nonsense is bad?


Me too. You can get wonderfully dysfunctional relationships when you have a partner with low self esteem that needs validation and another partner who knows it and uses it for gain\control.

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Baraka_Guru

Just today on the CBC, I heard a sociologist discuss her research on young girls' perceptions of plastic surgery. These girls are aged 7 to 13 and although not concerned about breasts, they are focused on facial "imperfections." What amazes this researcher is the amount of sophisticated knowledge the girls have.

What do you think of this? I wonder about the balance of concern young girls have when it comes to their minds and their bodies. When I see certain men and women, I often wonder how much time and money they spend on their appearance. I then wonder how rewarding their lives would be if they spent these resources on something that mattered more to them. (You know, those things many probably don't even know about.)

As far as the office woman is concerned, it doesn't sound like she's to blame for much of anything. It sounds like she's in an emotionally abusive relationship... and a severe one at that. A situation like that is hard to get out of. Victims of emotional abuse (especially severe and long term) have little or no sense of self. This is how her husband controls her. Depending on the severity of the situation, if she were to tell a mental health professional everything about her life, this woman would possibly be told to leave the relationship immediately and seek emergency support.

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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pornclerk

I was actually thinking something similar to this the other day and it's really getting to me. I believe we live in a society where people tell us how we should look or how we should feel about our looks.

I am a girl with some extra curves on me. My whole life, I've always been given the impression that it is just not acceptable, that I need to lose weight, and so on. Other than health reasons, why the fuck do I need to lose weight to impress someone else. I happen to like the proportion of my body even though it is a little thicker. I do want to lose some weight yes, but only to make sure my health is in good condition and so that I can still be active.

The part that really gets me is that my mother plays a huge part in this. She is constantly talking about my weight. It's so bad that I can't even wear a pair of shorts without her saying "You lost weight" or "You gained weight".

I happen to have very thick legs. My mother was complaining the one day that she was gaining weight in her legs and she was like "I'm getting Amy legs!" What the fuck kind of comment is that? Strangely enough, that's not the only time she's said something like that.

She also complains about her own weight, and she only weighs 135lbs. There have been many people in my life, not just her, who have been like this towards me. I'm not even obese for crying out loud. I could see if I was severly endangering my life, but I only have some extra padding.

To be perfectly honest, most days when I look in the mirror, I really like what I see. I'm not super model thin and I don't want to be. Why can't people just let me like who I am? Can I just go one day without someone telling me my body is unacceptable?

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Gilda

I've considered implants. It would be nice not to be so small, to actually have breasts that aren't smaller than most guys who've lost a lot of weight recently. D's would be wildly out of place on my small frame, but B's would, I think, be nicely proportionate. I've even done enough research to know the precise type and procedure. Grace hates the idea, and that's likely the only reason I've not done it.

I can never fault someone for wanting plastic surgery to feel better about herself, especially given what I've seen it do for my sister these past two years, and what I've seen it do for several transwomen I've known.

However, it should be something done to improve one's view of oneself, not to please others. This gets tricky, though, in that the reaction of others to one's appearance can be an element contributing to or detracting from one's self-esteem. I think I'm fortunate to be in that middle ground where, other than being flat-chested, I'm almost perfectly average looking. I can blend in in ways that my more shapely and attractive sister and wife can't, and to tell the truth wouldn't want to.

The woman in the OP seems unappy with what she's had done. It's likely left her less happy than she was previously, which is a shame, because that's the opposite of the intent.

Gilda

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Manic_Skafe

I don't mean to come off as rude or unsympathetic - it's obvious how unfortunate a situation this woman is in - but I can't understand how anyone can feel sympathy for this woman to the extent that they take the blame (which is rightfully hers) and place it on her husband.

Perhaps I'm heartless or maybe I've just read too many Ayn Rand books but I firmly believe that if she feels as if she deserves nothing better than a husband who makes her feel inadequate because of her physical appearance then she doesn't.

I'm not dancing around the role that her husband plays in her lack of self-esteem but there's no denying the fact that the only person who can instill a positive sense of self in that woman is herself.

One of the most important aspects I look for in an SO is a somewhat realistic sense of self and self-esteem. You seem to be a rather beautiful person.

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Gilda

Staying may not be in her best interests, but it's difficult to see that when you're in the situation, especially with a skilled manipulator. I tend to place the blame for abuse on the abuser, not the abused.

Nobody deserves any form of abuse.

That's not a fact, and it can be denied. A positive self image can come in part from outside intervention aiding a person in finding worthy things in herself. I know that family support and professional therapy have had a large impact on my developing a more healthy self-image over the last few years, something I'd have been incapable of doing without that support.

Gilda

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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

Manic_Skafe

I agree that it must be hard for her to see that she's probably being manipulated by her husband but her life is her responsibility and if she accepts that which she does not deserve as if she does - then who's fault is the situation?

That may be the case - if you believe it to be.

Seems as if all else I could offer to this thread would just be reiteration so I'll refrain from posting unless the thread allows for more.

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Baraka_Guru

If this is an emotionally abusive situation, it's her husband's fault. He's the one that has her convinced that she deserves this treatment. Please note what I wrote above: victims of emotional abuse have no sense of self. In this state, you are susceptible to manipulation. To those of us on the outside, it looks like a no brainer: leave! But when you're caught in it, this often doesn't even come to mind.

We shouldn't oversimplify a complex situation. Yes this woman is responsible for herself, but she may not even realize what she's doing isn't for her own good.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

lindalove

I don't think plastic surgery is bad at all, so long as the person does it for themselves, not because of their SO's wants and whims, just to make THEM happy. Even non-surgical procedures, like Botox--if you (general you) wants to have it done, that's certainly the individual's perogative.

Let me use an example: I once dated a guy whose "thing" was long hair. And back then I did have long hair, probably down to the middle of my back. I cut it to about shoulder length--still long, IMO, and he had a freaking FIT. Saying I should have 'checked' with him first. Eh--NO, I don't think so. Obviously surgery's a little more extreme than a haircut, but the message is the same; the SO saying "I want to have control/input over how you look." That part of it is just NOT cool in my book.

Again, my co-worker has had self-image issues before she met her husband, so there you have it.

mandy

not all plastic surgery is bad. but you have to do it because you want to and not because someone else wants you to. i'm telling you if it were my SO telling me i needed to get thin or i shouldn't even look at th pastries in the shops, he wouldn't be my SO anymore. whatever happened to loving someone for the person they are and not because of what they look like? i mean, i'm sure there are other things that make you fall inlove with someone and not just their looks.

i feel really bad for that lady.

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Jinn

Sweet mother of Jesus, who is this Manic_Skafe character? Two threads in a row I've become indignant with the replies, and just as I go to reply- Manic comes in with what I wanted to say - and said more eloquently than I could hope to. Well played, good sir.

It's nice to have someone else who dislikes the habit people have of blaming their faults on others and stresses .. dare I say it.. personal responsibility.

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Impetuous1

I kept my hair long for a while to keep my SO happy. But once I decided to get my hair cut up to my shoulders, I did it without consulting him. Fortunately he liked the results. I think it's fine to do things with your appearance to please you're SO. However, I don't think it's fine at all for them to try to force you into fitting a particular mold. One no should be enough to a request that they have regarding your appearance (if it's for vanity's sake). After that, it becomes an issue that has to be dealt with.

I feel really bad for that woman. She obviously has no self-esteem. She seems like the kind of person who probably never had any in her entire life. How does someone go from being like that to learning to be self-confindent? I don't think self-confidence is necessarily something that always comes naturally. Sometimes it has to be learned. Clearly this woman needs to learn that lesson. But I believe in her case it will require outside intervention. The husband just sounds like a total asshole.

Lady Sage

They would be serving frozen margaritas in christian hell before I would do anything of the sort. What you see is what you get and if a man doesnt like it then I hope he trips over his ego on the way out the front door. After of course I have a healthy dose of revenge. Being quite the herbalist I can be quite.... well yanno... and if ya dont know..... imagine.....

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Ustwo

I've told my wife since we have been together (16 years) that if she cuts her hair we are getting divorced. Its not a serious threat of course but it does show how strongly I feel about it because I know hair stylists HATE long hair and tend to do their best to get women to cut it so they can style it.

But to the idea of getting plastic surgery to please a spouse I see nothing wrong with it PROVIDED they want to do it for that reason. If bigger boobies would make your husband happy and you want to do it for him, then there is nothing wrong with that, even if you wouldn't do it just for yourself. Thats a far cry of course from being pressured into doing something.

After we are done with kids my wife might go that route and I wouldn like her to (not to get bigger, just to get rid of the after kid sag) but shes going to have to want to do it too. If she does it for me, or for her it doesn't matter but she will make that final call.

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Impetuous1

I don't know much about plastic surgery, but don't you have to be psychologically analyzed to make sure you aren't undergoing it to please someone else? I could be completely wrong on this.

As far as the cutting my hair incident, my boyfriend says shorter hair suits me better.

Toaster126

I tend to place blame on both. The abuser for being abusive, and the abused for sticking around.

Why is it wrong for a SO to have input over how you look? Assuming you want to make your SO happy, there are probably things everyone does to please a SO on a superficial level, and there isn't anything wrong with that. Granted, they don't have the final say - you do, assuming its a relationship I would call healthy.

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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

ShaniFaye

I know I was questioned up one end and down the other when I had my consultation....as were the girls on the plastic surgery support board Im on

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Sultana

I think it's just an easy line to cross from wanting to please an SO with facets of appearance to *getting permission* to change things...That's what irks me. Fortunately I've not had to deal with that in my marriage, but I have friends whose husbands are so invested in the color and length of their hair it's creepy. One friend in particular, her husband wants her to always keep her hair eactly the same (length, color, style) as when they met/married. WTF? Thirteen years later, she'd like a change, but Noooooo. He throws a fit. So she *gives in* and leaves it be.

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At night, the ice weasels come." -

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My goal? To fulfill my potential.

ngdawg

It'll be a very cold day in hell before I do something to alter my appearance soley on the whims of another.
I have every intention of getting 'updated' and the approximate timeframe in which to do it. I get the rolled eyes look and have even been told by my best friend "uh...no, you're not You're beautiful as you are". Uh, yes I am. And I'll look the same, only not so tired out.
My sister has this boyfriend. He told her, "If you get a boob job to make them look like your sister's(meaning mine), I'll pay for it." WTF???? She got a boob job, same size as mine, but she paid for it herself from a lawsuit settlement. She's happy with them, he's happy with them. Of course, she's 48 years old, more wrinkled than I'll ever be, sick all the time, but her boobs look great!

Lindalove: If you can befriend this woman, do it. It sounds like she's really stuck in a hellish position. I worked with a woman sort of the same way-she was a chronic exercise freak, fearful of getting fat, was skinny as hell, moody; when she got married, it was 'Jimmy this, Jimmy that' He was all she had that was 'good'...one day, while Jimmie was at work, she wrote a note, took some pills and laid down and never got up.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

catback

Just about every response has been made already so I'm gonna go on a tangent and make no comment against/about any issue discussed. Why because I don't know the lady nor her husband. Stories can be told over and over but I still wouldn't be able to make a proper opinion without obtaining data for myself. In the original post a comment was made about how he treats her when they are shopping and it makes me question do you shop with them? Do you know him personally? Do you know how they get along as a married couple? Did you she tell you her husband treats her that exact way when they go shopping? Is any detail your posting made from your personal opinion or assumption?

Basically without knowing them I'm not gonna cast judgement, they've been together for years I assume she should know him by now and know whether she wanted to be with him so to me it seems strange she's a complete victim to a husband who all the sudden wants her to be thin and large breasted meanwhile she's helpless to help herself.

iccky

I'd say yes.

Not to dig on personal responsibility too much, which is of course sorely lacking in many aspects of modern society. But man is a social animal. Our self-perceptions are not entierly a product of our own "inner strength" or whatever term Rand would use because they inherently involve an aspect of our place in social relationships and the role we play in them. The only real way we can gather that information is by feedback from others.

If this woman is truly in an emotionaly abusive relationship, her husband has probably cut her off from friends, relatives, and convinced her that her co-workers are idiots who don't deserve to be listened to. The only source of information she has to determine her value as a social being is her husband. If he says she only has value as a social being if she gets D-cups, she has little choice - she can't choose to get information about her value as a social being from others. You can't really ask her to take "personal responsibility" for this aspect of her life, as she really has no control over it.

So yes, it's sad, though not really because of the plastic surgery but beause of the sick relationship it's a sign of.

Margarita

This is so interesting, it seems like you must work at the same office my friend works at and that you both know the same lady. What a small world. Strange how you both worded the post EXACTLY the same.

agent99

Ha! Not only that but it seems as though someone posted Toaster126's exact same post over there.

Strange indeed.

Margarita

something tells me it's one and the same, but I could be wrong.

Jinn

WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE?

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agent99

I have nothing to lose so I'll answer that.

EVERY post that lindalove has made on this messageboard has been lifted from other message boards.

Yesterday, I was on a message board I rarely go to and saw a post pointing out threads that lindalove took the OP and posted it over here. word for word.

I followed their links and immediately recognized several posts from a forum that I do frequent often. I know for a fact it isn't some weird coincidence, because many of us have 'known' each other for over 5 years.

lindalove can't possibly be that many different people at multiple message boards.

JustJess

You'll need to post links for us to have any idea that you're not just some nutjob. By the by.

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Jinn

http://www.curvemag.com/speak/showth...threadid=14217

This post on "CurveMag" by "Trixie920" that matches http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=109868 on TFP?


http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=109951
This post on TFP that also appears on http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=481857&page=1 on "DVD Talk" ?

http://www.constantchatter.com/forum...22&postcount=1
on "ConstantChatter" that matches this very post?

Someone.. somewhere.. has explaining to do. I'm not really sure who, yet..

Agent99, could you be so obliged to provide links to the boards and thread you mentioned?

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

ShaniFaye

Im kinda confused....being on a LOT of message boards, its not uncommon to find a topic interesting enuff to post elsewhere, I cant be the only one that does that?

I will say I always preface it by saying something to the effect of...I saw this on another board and thought it would be interesting to talk about on "insert my own board"

hell I've done it here....I always PM the OP and tell them Im borrowing it

so what exactly is the problem?

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Jinn

Three random people and the fact that Toaster's was copied verbatim, also?

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

ngdawg

I'm curious as to why Toaster's was also lifted and passed off as a response...
I think i'ts really low if someone is merely taking another's words and then coming here with some weird intent and passing them off as their own. Is it some sort of twisted game to insinuate oneself into a level of trust and then screw with it? It's not funny....

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

ShaniFaye

sorry....I missed the part about responses....I thought we were talking about "unoriginal" topic ideas

ignore me

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

ngdawg

The problem is that the OP and the responses are copied and posted under different user names. It's also that it's not just the topic itself, it's the verbatim and no disclaimer, etc.
Personally, I have 3 user names total across the net, one used rarely, this one and another used regularly. It's one thing to have different names....if the OP was just that, I wouldn't see a problem...it's the exact copying of replies that bothers me, albeit one reply was copied word for word by the OP in two threads, but another used by a woman's name using Toaster's response here...

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Sweetpea

Aside from the OP and plastic surgery. (I have no problem with plastic surgery of any kind, as long as the individual is doing it for themselves and not for anyone else)

this is not intended as a thread jack, I would just like to address some of the viewpoints being given in conjunction with this OP.

I have found in this thread the very common view that

a: women (or anyone who is being abused) can always just leave easily
and B: that it's her fault or at least partially her fault for being in the situation

There is alot to be understood about domestic violence/emotional abuse that is not and is often rife with misconceptions.
And I also aware that unless you've known someone personally who has been through this or have been though it yourself, I'm sure it's difficult to see the many complexities of the situations and make oversimplified assumptions.

First and foremost, having recieved my degree and worked in the social work field for some time now, I firmly believe through my experiences that the abuse is Never the abusers fault, plain and simple.
To place blame at all on the abused is to only perpetuate the myth that this is something merely walking out can solve and that it is a trvial thing that happens and that the woman (or man) can easily stop it or leave.

Keep in mind, these may look like very normal couples from the outside perspective, but behind closed doors, tremendous amounts of emotional abuse and/or physical abuse can take place.
Most people aren't aware that the most dangerous time for an abused individual is in the 48 hours right after they walk out. Statistically, this is when the most violence occurs which sometimes includes the murder of the abused. Even in an emotionally abusive situation that doesn't currently include physical abuse, there may be the threat of violence if he/she leaves.

" Prolonged exposure to violence and/or emotional tourture can have the effect of making the woman believe that she deserves to be hurt. It distorts confidence and some women may start to rationalize their partner's behaviour.
Women often blame themselves because they have been consistently told that the abuse is all their fault.
There is no justification for abuse."
http://www.newham.gov.uk/Services/Do...AndFactsDV.htm

/end threadjack

thanks,
sweetpea

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