Problems with smokers at work - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

sapiens · 08-16-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

It would be like me going to a family gathering where many of the people are diabetic and not questioning what I was eating because artificial sweetener is my main migraine trigger and just eating away and getting pissed off when I got one because the banana pudding I grabbed was made with equal, not sugar.

Except that you can still participate in the family gathering and avoid the sweetener. She can't participate at work and avoid the smoke. Also, artificial sweetener isn't universally recognized as a carcinogen.

Quote:

I just think there was responsibility on both sides here and its not fair to expect what is a "standard" in that office to be changed just because a new person came in without knowledge she should have gotten of her working environment.

I do agree that we are ultimately responsible for our own health. It sounds like she has taken responsible action to ensure her health.

While smoking may have been allowed before she arrived, it's not clear to me that it is a "standard" in the same way that it might be in a bar. It wouldn't at all be on my mind in applying for a job.

ngdawg · 08-16-2006, 02:01 PM

Sometimes we learn a bit too late what's expected. Birgit is exercising her position as top hen over the new chick. Rude? Yea, but that's the corporate world.( It's her way of making sure SHE stays and you go after the internship is over) As a smoker, I would never do that and have asked others if they minded.
But as a citizen in a place where smoking is the norm and migraines are the result, I think it would have been prudent to ask what the smoking policy is just as you would ask what the dress code is or the hours are.
If this is part of your degree work, you can go to your student laison or dean and find out what other options might be available. New students might be willing to trade positions or internships.
One final idea may be to get yourself an ionizer for your desk. It won't get rid of all the smoke floating, but it will help a lot. Oh, and hand Birgit an altoids once in a while. Nothing confuses the hell out of rudeness more than absolute kindness.
But, the more you try to go up against her, the worse you make it for yourself and everyone else because it's pretty obvious she is not going to budge.

Nancy · 08-20-2006, 08:22 AM

Update (sorry about the delay, people):

When I got to work the next day, numbskull had made Søren move my computer.

Guess where he decided to plant me.

Yeah that’s right. RIGHT across from Birgit! We were sitting so close to one another that I could reach out and touch her, for crying out loud.

And that’s his brilliant solution to my problem; placing me right across from a smoker! Obviously he was either ignoring my problem completely or didn’t hear a single word I said to him during our last conversation.

At that point I was so angry that I had difficulty breathing.

So I headed for the bathroom again in order to wait there for numbskull to show up because I didn’t want to sit that close to Birgit. As I sat there I started thinking about what a fucking retard my boss was and it struck me how ridiculous this whole situation was. And then -instead of crying- I started laughing.

I caught him in his office at eight and asked him flat out why on earth he would place me across from Birgit. It seemed that he had misunderstood me (surprise, surprise) - he thought it would help if I sat right next to a window, with some sort of extraction installed. I pointed out that it wouldn’t work at all - especially once winter would come.

Since he didn’t seem to understand how big a problem their smoke is for me, I decided to spell it out for him this time (something I should have done from the start but I thought that it would be enought to just point out that their cigarette smoke was triggering my migraine attacks). I told him that even on the days when only Birgit was at work and despite all the windows and the big doors were open, I’d still get a migraine attack. I added that I usually only get about 2-3 attacks per month but since I started working here, I now get 2-4 PER WEEK.

Then he finally got the picture

But he still wouldn’t enforce a smoking ban here. Because, as he pointed out, “you can’t get such seasoned smokers to go outside from one day to the next”.
Then I told him that it didn’t seem to be a problem for Carl.
That comment made him negative

All in all his attitude towards the very end of the conversation was quite negative. He seemed to think that they had already done everything they could do for me and that I had all the reason to be satisfied with how things were at the moment. He said that the smokers were already paying regard to me; they had cut down their consumption of cigarettes.

How on earth is that showing consideration for me?!

According to him, the smokers felt like I had ordered them about from the very beginning.
Say what?! I asked them nicely and politely if they would be so kind as to go outside to smoke because their cigarette smoke was giving me migraine attacks. How that qualifies as an order I do not know.

He promised me, however, that he’d talk to the smokers again and see if they could come up with some sort of arrangement.

I had a feeling that such an arrangement would never materialize and a few days later I found out that I was right.

Later that day I called my school and had a little chat with the headmaster and my “contact teacher”. It seems that I (or any other trainee for that matter) may not return to the school’s trainee department if I quit the job. The only valid reason any trainee may have to quit his trainee job is if the company is unable to provide proper training. Who makes these silly rules?!

This IS a valid reason for heaven’s sake!
Luckily my headmaster said that they would most likely be able to “work something out” if I could produce a medical certificate stating that it is irresponsible to submit me to cigarette smoke due to my migraine attacks. That won’t be a problem at all; my neurologist has advised me against taking more than 10 Maxalt pills per month as the pills are unhealthy..
They both sympathized with me and said that I should - as a last resort - suggest numbskull to relocate me to a non-smoking department. And if he refused then I should tell him to give my headmaster a call and then he’d take over.

A few days later a silent war was going on between Helle and I: she kept closing the front door and I kept opening it. I guess she was feeling cold when it was open but at that point I didn’t care; if I were to put up with their smoke, she would have to put up with some fresh air.

When I got to work the next day - and she found out that I had opened the door once again - she closed it and told me not to open it again because it was creating a draught. When I replied: “fine, Helle. I’ll just sit here and get another migraine today.” she got all prissy and reminded me that there should be room for us all.

That’s where I lost patience.
I had had enough of Helle, this whole situation and numbskull’s reluctance to do anything about it so I decided to have one, final talk with him - the kind of talk that would either conclude in firing or immediate action on his part. So I marched into numbskull’s office and asked him if he’d talked to the smokers yet. And, instead of giving me a yes/no answer, he burst out: “they’re already paying regard to you, Nancy!” - clearly annoyed that this was still an issue. He then sat down and told me that he had talked to them once more and that they had complained about me opening the door frequently. I made it clear to him (in an angry tone and heavy gesticulation) that I couldn’t work here under these conditions - especially with the door closed. And if he wasn’t going to do something about it, I would leave work immediately because there was a 100% chance of me getting a migraine with the door closed.
He then got busy assuring me that he’d work something out within half an hour..

One hour later (

) I still hadn’t heard from him. I was sitting at my desk, feeling really angry about that when I noticed the closed door. I decided to open it again despite Helle’s prohibition. When she got back and saw that it was open, she got furious. Sadly I wasn’t able to confront her with it because I was busy talking to Peter about the correct arrangement of a C4 envelope. But I could hear her and Birgit in the background muttering:

“can you believe this?!”
“This is an outrage!”
“We have to do something about it - I will not have this!”.

Then Birgit got up and marched out of the room all “I’ll sort this thing out”-like. About a minute later she got back with numbskull right behind her. He then called a meeting and declared that we had to do something about this immediately. And as he said that, Helle said something that still makes me laugh when ever I think about it: “yeah - because this is making me ill!”

He announced that until he could have a desk ready for me in the advertising department, the door was not to be opened and the smokers would have to go outside for now.

Ten minutes later I found myself sitting in the advertising department, angry, dissappointed - basically the whole gamut of negative emotions. Sure, have ME removed instead of them and their unhealthy smoke

I can’t help but feel that they’ve won. And I bet your ass that Helle is gloating over my defeat.
My boss is an incompetent fool and this “solution” along with his way of handling this situation are beneath contempt if you ask me.

It seems that my problem with the smokers was well-known all over the firm; the accountant got up to me later that day:

Her: “I hear that they’ve decided to plant you in the advertising department”
Me: “Yup - now I get to be a nuisance to those people instead”
Her: “But.. you don’t smoke?”
Me: “I was only kidding”
Her: “I can’t believe that he didn’t deal with this immediately instead of letting this come to a head”

What can I say - the man’s a fool.

Erik isn’t pleased with this quick fix either. He too approached me later that day:

Him: “I see that he’s decided to put you in here - how do you feel about that?”
I hesitated for a while and then replied “..it’s allright I guess.”
Him: “this is kind of... ignoring the problem, don’t you think?”

I couldn’t agree more. Getting rid of me instead of them and thus allowing them to continue doing something that is a threat to other people’s health isn’t exactly a good signal to send to the workers at this firm.

Pip · 08-20-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy

Later that day I called my school and had a little chat with the headmaster and my “contact teacher”. It seems that I (or any other trainee for that matter) may not return to the school’s trainee department if I quit the job. The only valid reason any trainee may have to quit his trainee job is if the company is unable to provide proper training. Who makes these silly rules?!

This IS a valid reason for heaven’s sake!
Luckily my headmaster said that they would most likely be able to “work something out” if I could produce a medical certificate stating that it is irresponsible to submit me to cigarette smoke due to my migraine attacks. That won’t be a problem at all; my neurologist has advised me against taking more than 10 Maxalt pills per month as the pills are unhealthy..
They both sympathized with me and said that I should - as a last resort - suggest numbskull to relocate me to a non-smoking department. And if he refused then I should tell him to give my headmaster a call and then he’d take over.

If the trainee time is a compulsory part of your education, then the safety and health regulations for students on school grounds should apply to the workplaces as well. But I know workplace safety regulation is pretty much nonexistant for students in Sweden...
Compulsory work experience is a tricky business, and I think a lot of schools shove over too much responsibility on the individual student to avoid work on their part. I know my old engineering college did - to the point of being very much against the law. Took the student union ages to bring that shit down. This might be a good time to contact your student union to see if they can look into the school rules, because issues like this needs to be clarified. Who is to take the consequences if a trainee job turns out to be a health hazard to the student? The student - quit the job and lose the degree? Or the school - put pressure on the workplace or provide another job?

Hugs and kisses to you Nancy, you are a brave and mature person.

monkeysugar · 08-20-2006, 07:31 PM

Your boss is not a stupid, incompetant fool. He's just trying to get rid of you. I'm not exactly proud to say it, but if I were in his position I'd be doing the same thing. Why? Because from his viewpoint, you are not in a position to make demands. He has nothing to gain by keeping you around and making changes that piss off the rest of the staff, when there are many other qualified individuals who would give vital parts of their anatomy for the position. Not meant to be as a personal attack, so please don't take it as one.

Nancy · 08-21-2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

So, when you asked them about smokers (which Im assuming you did because its allowed there and it does cause you a problem, if I were you it would have been the first thing out of my mouth...here it would be a mute point unless you were applying for a job in a bar) did the just out and out lie to you and tell that you’d be in a smoke free area?

I didn’t ask about it becase it didn’t cross my mind. I just assumed that it was a smoke free firm (big mistake) since I didn’t see anyone smoke when he showed me around. I’ve certainly learned my lession

Quote:

Originally Posted by krwlz

I’m sure Nancy will be able to field this, but comming from school, into work expirience myself... If the job sounds great, it gets you what you need for school, and it pays decent... Those other trivial details (especially smoking, which is no longer commonplace at work) kind of vanish in the light of excitment.

If I’m wrong, feel free to slap and correct me Nancy

I’d be willing to put up with a lot of shit for the sake of proper training and a high salery but not this. Had I known about their non existing smoking ban here I would’ve turned the offer down immediately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painted

I feel sorry for your plight, Nancy. Smoking is a very shitty habit, it hurts everyone.

However... your boss not wanting to enforce a new rule I can understand. The other people in the office have worked there for years, hasn’t that one guy, Carl, worked there for 35 years? And if some new gal comes in and starts bitching about the smoke (that’s how they see you) they are probably a little hesitant to directly comply with your demands.

If you were your boss, would you rather meet your employee of (i’m guessing here) 10 years’ demands, or your employee of 1 month’s demands? Yeah, you could make the argument that it’s only 8 feet to the door, where they can smoke all they want. But, now lets say you’re the employee of 10 years (who smokes), wouldn’t you feel a little betrayed if suddenly your boss changes the rules just cause some new employee wanted him to?

If a person works at a place for 10 years, it is generally accepted that they have contributed greatly to the growth of the company during that time period. Thus, the demands of that employee are taken more seriously than an employee of only a month. It is considered bad business practice to treat long-term employees with the same respect as new employees. (Some places are actually like this, and these places you want to avoid)

I would do what ever it takes to ensure the well-being of all my workers.
I’m sure the smokers would feel betrayed if he had enforced a smoking ban here but that would only make them even more small-minded to me. If they can’t see the necessity of a smoking ban for the sake of their co-worker’s health then that’s their problem.

Carno · 08-21-2006, 10:27 AM

To be honest, I can understand the smokers' annoyance at your behavior. You (as a new person with no standing whatsoever in that company) show up and immediately try to change something that they have been doing for years with no problems.

You were the one with the problem, not them, so why do you feel upset that they moved you?

Sage · 08-21-2006, 11:57 AM

Hey, yeah, you did show up and want things changed... so I understand the employees being unprofessional about it- but your boss is being a total ASS about it. Total ass. He should know how to handle things like this with more grace, dignity, and professional demeanor than what he's exhibiting now.

I'm sorry that things over there aren't quite like they are here... Europe is very progressive in some ways and very retrograde in others. You have a medical condition that makes it impossible for you to be around smoke- don't back down on this. I'm sorry you got moved to a different department, but at least you don't have to put up with smoke now!

raeanna74 · 08-21-2006, 05:18 PM

You sure sound like you need some stress relief. I would be so frazzled after all that. I know it feels like they've won but really your goal was to be smoke free right? I hope you can still get the training you need in the department you are in. Maybe you'll get to know some more decent mature people in there instead of petty, addicted, immature, female dogs.

Hugs

08-16-2006, 02:01 PM	#42 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	Sometimes we learn a bit too late what's expected. Birgit is exercising her position as top hen over the new chick. Rude? Yea, but that's the corporate world.( It's her way of making sure SHE stays and you go after the internship is over) As a smoker, I would never do that and have asked others if they minded. But as a citizen in a place where smoking is the norm and migraines are the result, I think it would have been prudent to ask what the smoking policy is just as you would ask what the dress code is or the hours are. If this is part of your degree work, you can go to your student laison or dean and find out what other options might be available. New students might be willing to trade positions or internships. One final idea may be to get yourself an ionizer for your desk. It won't get rid of all the smoke floating, but it will help a lot. Oh, and hand Birgit an altoids once in a while. Nothing confuses the hell out of rudeness more than absolute kindness. But, the more you try to go up against her, the worse you make it for yourself and everyone else because it's pretty obvious she is not going to budge. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

08-20-2006, 08:22 AM	#43 (permalink)
Nancy Femme Fatale Location: Elysium	Update (sorry about the delay, people): When I got to work the next day, numbskull had made Søren move my computer. Guess where he decided to plant me. Yeah that’s right. RIGHT across from Birgit! We were sitting so close to one another that I could reach out and touch her, for crying out loud. And that’s his brilliant solution to my problem; placing me right across from a smoker! Obviously he was either ignoring my problem completely or didn’t hear a single word I said to him during our last conversation. At that point I was so angry that I had difficulty breathing. So I headed for the bathroom again in order to wait there for numbskull to show up because I didn’t want to sit that close to Birgit. As I sat there I started thinking about what a fucking retard my boss was and it struck me how ridiculous this whole situation was. And then -instead of crying- I started laughing. I caught him in his office at eight and asked him flat out why on earth he would place me across from Birgit. It seemed that he had misunderstood me (surprise, surprise) - he thought it would help if I sat right next to a window, with some sort of extraction installed. I pointed out that it wouldn’t work at all - especially once winter would come. Since he didn’t seem to understand how big a problem their smoke is for me, I decided to spell it out for him this time (something I should have done from the start but I thought that it would be enought to just point out that their cigarette smoke was triggering my migraine attacks). I told him that even on the days when only Birgit was at work and despite all the windows and the big doors were open, I’d still get a migraine attack. I added that I usually only get about 2-3 attacks per month but since I started working here, I now get 2-4 PER WEEK. Then he finally got the picture But he still wouldn’t enforce a smoking ban here. Because, as he pointed out, “you can’t get such seasoned smokers to go outside from one day to the next”. Then I told him that it didn’t seem to be a problem for Carl. That comment made him negative All in all his attitude towards the very end of the conversation was quite negative. He seemed to think that they had already done everything they could do for me and that I had all the reason to be satisfied with how things were at the moment. He said that the smokers were already paying regard to me; they had cut down their consumption of cigarettes. How on earth is that showing consideration for me?! According to him, the smokers felt like I had ordered them about from the very beginning. Say what?! I asked them nicely and politely if they would be so kind as to go outside to smoke because their cigarette smoke was giving me migraine attacks. How that qualifies as an order I do not know. He promised me, however, that he’d talk to the smokers again and see if they could come up with some sort of arrangement. I had a feeling that such an arrangement would never materialize and a few days later I found out that I was right. Later that day I called my school and had a little chat with the headmaster and my “contact teacher”. It seems that I (or any other trainee for that matter) may not return to the school’s trainee department if I quit the job. The only valid reason any trainee may have to quit his trainee job is if the company is unable to provide proper training. Who makes these silly rules?! This IS a valid reason for heaven’s sake! Luckily my headmaster said that they would most likely be able to “work something out” if I could produce a medical certificate stating that it is irresponsible to submit me to cigarette smoke due to my migraine attacks. That won’t be a problem at all; my neurologist has advised me against taking more than 10 Maxalt pills per month as the pills are unhealthy.. They both sympathized with me and said that I should - as a last resort - suggest numbskull to relocate me to a non-smoking department. And if he refused then I should tell him to give my headmaster a call and then he’d take over. A few days later a silent war was going on between Helle and I: she kept closing the front door and I kept opening it. I guess she was feeling cold when it was open but at that point I didn’t care; if I were to put up with their smoke, she would have to put up with some fresh air. When I got to work the next day - and she found out that I had opened the door once again - she closed it and told me not to open it again because it was creating a draught. When I replied: “fine, Helle. I’ll just sit here and get another migraine today.” she got all prissy and reminded me that there should be room for us all. That’s where I lost patience. I had had enough of Helle, this whole situation and numbskull’s reluctance to do anything about it so I decided to have one, final talk with him - the kind of talk that would either conclude in firing or immediate action on his part. So I marched into numbskull’s office and asked him if he’d talked to the smokers yet. And, instead of giving me a yes/no answer, he burst out: “they’re already paying regard to you, Nancy!” - clearly annoyed that this was still an issue. He then sat down and told me that he had talked to them once more and that they had complained about me opening the door frequently. I made it clear to him (in an angry tone and heavy gesticulation) that I couldn’t work here under these conditions - especially with the door closed. And if he wasn’t going to do something about it, I would leave work immediately because there was a 100% chance of me getting a migraine with the door closed. He then got busy assuring me that he’d work something out within half an hour.. One hour later () I still hadn’t heard from him. I was sitting at my desk, feeling really angry about that when I noticed the closed door. I decided to open it again despite Helle’s prohibition. When she got back and saw that it was open, she got furious. Sadly I wasn’t able to confront her with it because I was busy talking to Peter about the correct arrangement of a C4 envelope. But I could hear her and Birgit in the background muttering: “can you believe this?!” “This is an outrage!” “We have to do something about it - I will not have this!”. Then Birgit got up and marched out of the room all “I’ll sort this thing out”-like. About a minute later she got back with numbskull right behind her. He then called a meeting and declared that we had to do something about this immediately. And as he said that, Helle said something that still makes me laugh when ever I think about it: “yeah - because this is making me ill!” He announced that until he could have a desk ready for me in the advertising department, the door was not to be opened and the smokers would have to go outside for now. Ten minutes later I found myself sitting in the advertising department, angry, dissappointed - basically the whole gamut of negative emotions. Sure, have ME removed instead of them and their unhealthy smoke I can’t help but feel that they’ve won. And I bet your ass that Helle is gloating over my defeat. My boss is an incompetent fool and this “solution” along with his way of handling this situation are beneath contempt if you ask me. It seems that my problem with the smokers was well-known all over the firm; the accountant got up to me later that day: Her: “I hear that they’ve decided to plant you in the advertising department” Me: “Yup - now I get to be a nuisance to those people instead” Her: “But.. you don’t smoke?” Me: “I was only kidding” Her: “I can’t believe that he didn’t deal with this immediately instead of letting this come to a head” What can I say - the man’s a fool. Erik isn’t pleased with this quick fix either. He too approached me later that day: Him: “I see that he’s decided to put you in here - how do you feel about that?” I hesitated for a while and then replied “..it’s allright I guess.” Him: “this is kind of... ignoring the problem, don’t you think?” I couldn’t agree more. Getting rid of me instead of them and thus allowing them to continue doing something that is a threat to other people’s health isn’t exactly a good signal to send to the workers at this firm. __________________ I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip.

08-20-2006, 07:31 PM	#45 (permalink)
monkeysugar I'll be on the veranda, since you're on the cross. Location: Rand McNally's friendliest small town in America. They must have strayed from the dodgy parts...	Your boss is not a stupid, incompetant fool. He's just trying to get rid of you. I'm not exactly proud to say it, but if I were in his position I'd be doing the same thing. Why? Because from his viewpoint, you are not in a position to make demands. He has nothing to gain by keeping you around and making changes that piss off the rest of the staff, when there are many other qualified individuals who would give vital parts of their anatomy for the position. Not meant to be as a personal attack, so please don't take it as one. __________________ I've got the love of my life and a job that I enjoy most of the time. Life is good.

08-21-2006, 10:27 AM	#47 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	To be honest, I can understand the smokers' annoyance at your behavior. You (as a new person with no standing whatsoever in that company) show up and immediately try to change something that they have been doing for years with no problems. You were the one with the problem, not them, so why do you feel upset that they moved you? __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

08-21-2006, 11:57 AM	#48 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	Hey, yeah, you did show up and want things changed... so I understand the employees being unprofessional about it- but your boss is being a total ASS about it. Total ass. He should know how to handle things like this with more grace, dignity, and professional demeanor than what he's exhibiting now. I'm sorry that things over there aren't quite like they are here... Europe is very progressive in some ways and very retrograde in others. You have a medical condition that makes it impossible for you to be around smoke- don't back down on this. I'm sorry you got moved to a different department, but at least you don't have to put up with smoke now! __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

08-21-2006, 05:18 PM	#49 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	You sure sound like you need some stress relief. I would be so frazzled after all that. I know it feels like they've won but really your goal was to be smoke free right? I hope you can still get the training you need in the department you are in. Maybe you'll get to know some more decent mature people in there instead of petty, addicted, immature, female dogs. Hugs __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.