Avoiding the inevitable - not getting kicked out when you should - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

The_Jazz · 05-24-2006, 10:04 AM

Mods, I really have no idea where this belongs so I took a stab. Please move as you see fit.

As some of you know, I do a lot of traveling and entertaining for work. I go to a lot of sporting events where I have no real interest in the outcome, and I spend a lot of time with people that, outside of work, I wouldn't pee on if they were on fire. A couple of weeks ago, I witnessed two incidents with the same individual within a couple of hours ago that should have not only gotten us forceably removed from the premises but possible charges filed against us. This is that story.

Two weeks ago, the Detriot Piston hosted the Cleveland Cavaliers for Game 2 of the NBA playoffs. I do a fair amount of business in the Detroit area, and one of the guys that I partner with quite a bit also does. We share several clients, including a large one of note. This client employs a younger guy that my coworker and I both get along with fairly well and has turned into our best advocate in the shop. Since we were going to be in town and had had some recent success, we invited "J" to the game and asked him to bring someone along. He asked "T", his mentor in the agency, to come along. We had 4 seats in the 7th row behind the scorer's table in the section where the big fight broke out last year when the Pacers were in town.

Walking into the stadium, we made the prerequisite jokes about not getting into fights or throwing beer on people. For the first half, everything was fine, and many beers were consumed by the 3 of us imbibing (J, my coworker "F" and myself). In the 4th quarter, we shuffled up the seats so that T and I could talk some business and J and F sat together next to us. Directly in front of J was an 11 year old boy who was there with his father. Given that J had now had at least 6 beers, he was a little sloppy and started to drop the "F bomb" in every other sentence. F pointed out the kid and told him to turn it down; J has a 9 year old boy at home himself.

With about 4 mintues left in the game, Cleveland started to make a run and cut Detroit's lead from about 12 to 5. There was a no-call on a shot that missed by the Pistons (there was no foul IMO). Now I couldn't care less about either team, but J is a big Pistons fan. He jumped up and started yelling profanities at the referees and spilled about a 1/4 cup of beer on the kid in front of him. Since he'd been dripping beer on the kid for about 10 minutes, the father finally got fed up with J and turned around and told him to shut up, sit down and stop spilling beer on his kid. A normal person would listen, but as T and I discussed later, "J has issues". He said (as best I recall) "why don't you f... yourself, old man, before I come down there and beat you". With that, the father did the worst thing that you can ever do to a drunk - he smacked almost-full beer cup out of J's hand. And with that, the fight was on.

In retrospect, it was one of the most sissy fights I've ever witnessed. It was a 29 year old man vs a roughly 45 year old man, pushing and shoving each other in the stands. F, my coworker, stood up and got between them as fast as possible, but J just tried to go through him to get to the guy. A couple of punches were thrown, but none landed (except on F). I jumped up and tried to sit J down, but all he wanted to do was fight. We finally go J to sit down, and that's when security showed up. At this point, everyone in our section had pretty much formed an opinion of the 4 of us and told the security guards that we should be kicked out. Somehow, F managed to convince security to let us stay, but we had a guard sitting in our row for the rest of the game.

Remember that beer in J's hands that went flying? It landed on the kid - all of it. So the kid was wearing a brewery. Thankfully, F was thinking clearly enough to offer the father $100 to buy the kid a new shirt, and although the guy didn't take it, he was classy enough to thank us for the offer. At the end of the game, J and the father ended up apologizing to each other and shaking hands, so it ended fairly well.

T dropped us off at our cars, and F and J decided that we needed to go to what my Southern brethren refer to as a "shoe show", where the ladies model shoes for you and little or nothing else. Now J is dating a woman who's best friend works as a waitress one of these places, so that's where we go. As an aside, if I ever want to see beautiful women dance naked for me, I'll make it a point not to look in suburban Detroit on a Tuesday night. It turns out that some of J's friends are already there, so we ended up joining them. The friends get kicked out within 10 minutes of us sitting down for reaching their hands up the waitress's (not J's acquiantance) skirt.

After about a half hour, J gets himself a lap dance from the token Russian girl in the place. She's doing her thing and talking dirty to him, but I'm paying more attention to what's going on up on stage. All of a sudden, the dancer jumps up and runs away in the middle of the song. I look over at J, just in time to watch him try to slip his cock back into his pants and zip up. I later pieced together that he said something along the lines of "I want to see your pussy" which prompted her to respond "I'll show you mine if you show me yours." Now anyone who's ever been to one of these places knows that Rule #2 of strip clubs is "you are never allowed to take your cock out" (Rule #1 being "don't touch unless you are instructed to").

The dancer runs over to the bouncer, who comes over and asks us if there's a problem. J looks up innocently and uses the modern equivalent of the Jedi Mind Trick of "yeah, my beer's gone, the waitress hasn't been here in 10 minutes, and that dancer just took off with my money. Where's the manager?" And it somehow worked. Not only did we stay in the club, we got comped drinks.

There's no question here or even an obvious opening for discussion, but I thought that this was a pretty funny story and would share it.

Cynthetiq · 05-24-2006, 10:18 AM

I just don't get how people think that bad behavior is excused by alcoholic beverages. It's still bad behavior. It's also one of the biggest reasons that I just stopped going out with a set of drinking friends, because it became just totally stupid every time we went out.

At least hold your liquor.

stevo · 05-24-2006, 10:44 AM

Nice story.

Jimellow · 05-24-2006, 11:25 AM

The guy sounds like an asshole. It's unfortunate he ruined the sporting event for two children, that likely were there for enjoyment.

The_Jazz · 05-24-2006, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I just don't get how people think that bad behavior is excused by alcoholic beverages. It's still bad behavior. It's also one of the biggest reasons that I just stopped going out with a set of drinking friends, because it became just totally stupid every time we went out.

I completely agree, but this guy is a client, and it will cost me money to avoid him. He seems to feel guilty about it and has apologized, but I'm just "The Guy Next To That Asshole". The goofball is worth about $40-50,000 in revenue for me a year, so I can't just blow him off like I normally would.

I know, poor me. I have to go to NBA playoff games in sweet seats with a degenerate asshole. I'll be holding my breath expecting sympathy cards out of TFP.

Jimellow · 05-24-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

I completely agree, but this guy is a client, and it will cost me money to avoid him. He seems to feel guilty about it and has apologized, but I'm just "The Guy Next To That Asshole". The goofball is worth about $40-50,000 in revenue for me a year, so I can't just blow him off like I normally would.

Perhaps he is being an asshole as a means for testing your loyalty/commitment.

The_Jazz · 05-24-2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimellow

Perhaps he is being an asshole as a means for testing your loyalty/commitment.

I don't see how making an ass of himself is going to be a measure of my loyalty, especially when my worth to him is only proven by the last deal that I helped him with. He's the one who can choose to not send me an account, and I'll never be the wiser.

jorgelito · 05-24-2006, 06:32 PM

Oh man, what a nightmare. I'm getting too old for this type of stupid shit.

Here's my question: If you're the father, what do you do? Do you really want to "start" a fight at a ball game, especially in front of your kid? On the other hand, you have to do SOMETHING right? I hate these situations. We're told all the time to be the bigger man and turn the cheek etc. And if we do the right thing: call for security? Then we are considered wusses right? What if the guy is way bigger and crazier than you? Is it worth a fight? Ugh, only thing worse than having to be in that situation in front of your kid is if you're with your woman. Agh...

Tough situation the_Jazz. I hate those.

Rodney · 05-24-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

I completely agree, but this guy is a client, and it will cost me money to avoid him. He seems to feel guilty about it and has apologized, but I'm just "The Guy Next To That Asshole". The goofball is worth about $40-50,000 in revenue for me a year, so I can't just blow him off like I normally would.

Well, since the guy apparently feels somewhat sheepish about it all after the fact, I guess the real point is that he can't handle serious liquor; it turns him into an a-hole, which he isn't when sober. Would suggest future outings that deemphasize drinking, or that accompany drinking with so much food that he's too loggy to do much besides burp.

savvypup · 05-26-2006, 04:09 AM

Quote:

I completely agree, but this guy is a client, and it will cost me money to avoid him. He seems to feel guilty about it and has apologized, but I'm just "The Guy Next To That Asshole". The goofball is worth about $40-50,000 in revenue for me a year, so I can't just blow him off like I normally would.

Fair enough he's a client. But bloody hell, this guy is such an obvious wanker. Do you have a clause in your contract that says you have to entertain such dickheads? Why can't business and pleasure just be kept seperate sometimes?

The_Jazz · 05-26-2006, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savvypup

Fair enough he's a client. But bloody hell, this guy is such an obvious wanker. Do you have a clause in your contract that says you have to entertain such dickheads? Why can't business and pleasure just be kept seperate sometimes?

I have to go seek out my own business and clients, so I get roped into things that I have no interest in all the time. I force myself to play golf because most of my potential clients play - then again, I've played at Pebble Beach 3 times in 4 years, so it's not all bad. The next time I go to Detroit, I'll probably try to switch this guy to a lunch appointment instead of a dinner + whatever.

There's no clause in my contract that specifically states I have to deal with assholes, but there is an underproduction clause.

Charlatan · 05-26-2006, 05:27 AM

I really dislike people like J. They just don't get that there are rules of social interaction. Sure they understand them enough to apologize after the fact but they are just being diplomatic. They really don't give a shit.

Karma will bite this guy in the ass.

Rodney · 05-26-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

I really dislike people like J. They just don't get that there are rules of social interaction. Sure they understand them enough to apologize after the fact but they are just being diplomatic. They really don't give a shit.

Karma will bite this guy in the ass.

It may well, but I've known a few middling decent people who turned into raving assholes under the influence of too much drink -- and no other time.

You know, I don't know what makes most people tick. I don't know what monsters they may keep chained inside them, what mighty barriers they might have erected to keep their internal demons from spilling out into the world. What counts is the end product -- how they treat others and interact with them. J sounds a guy with issues who keeps them under control. No problem. But...

For some of us, alky is a relaxing drink that mildly releases inhibitions. For others, it frees the dragon, blows a hole in the wall, and lets the demons out into the world. J falls into the latter camp.

I won't condemn straight-out him as an a-hole, like Charlatan does. But I will say that he should know by now that alcohol frees his demons; and since he knows that, he's responsible every time he takes a drink.

And if he doesn't care to take that responsibility -- well hey, maybe he _is_ an a-hole.

savvypup · 06-09-2006, 07:20 PM

You sound really decent Jazz - I admire that in a person.

I guess you're right, just be friendly, keep it work orientated .......... and get away as soon as you can.

Goodness though, how could you not enjoy golf!

Psycho Dad · 06-10-2006, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

I completely agree, but this guy is a client, and it will cost me money to avoid him. He seems to feel guilty about it and has apologized, but I'm just "The Guy Next To That Asshole". The goofball is worth about $40-50,000 in revenue for me a year, so I can't just blow him off like I normally would.

I don't know the nature of your business, but what will it cost you when he gets charges filed on himself and perhaps you for punching some kid's dad or gets you a ride in the back of a police car? I think if entertaining this assclown is going to be part of your job, you need to look at other entertainment options.

05-24-2006, 10:04 AM	#1 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Avoiding the inevitable - not getting kicked out when you should Mods, I really have no idea where this belongs so I took a stab. Please move as you see fit. As some of you know, I do a lot of traveling and entertaining for work. I go to a lot of sporting events where I have no real interest in the outcome, and I spend a lot of time with people that, outside of work, I wouldn't pee on if they were on fire. A couple of weeks ago, I witnessed two incidents with the same individual within a couple of hours ago that should have not only gotten us forceably removed from the premises but possible charges filed against us. This is that story. Two weeks ago, the Detriot Piston hosted the Cleveland Cavaliers for Game 2 of the NBA playoffs. I do a fair amount of business in the Detroit area, and one of the guys that I partner with quite a bit also does. We share several clients, including a large one of note. This client employs a younger guy that my coworker and I both get along with fairly well and has turned into our best advocate in the shop. Since we were going to be in town and had had some recent success, we invited "J" to the game and asked him to bring someone along. He asked "T", his mentor in the agency, to come along. We had 4 seats in the 7th row behind the scorer's table in the section where the big fight broke out last year when the Pacers were in town. Walking into the stadium, we made the prerequisite jokes about not getting into fights or throwing beer on people. For the first half, everything was fine, and many beers were consumed by the 3 of us imbibing (J, my coworker "F" and myself). In the 4th quarter, we shuffled up the seats so that T and I could talk some business and J and F sat together next to us. Directly in front of J was an 11 year old boy who was there with his father. Given that J had now had at least 6 beers, he was a little sloppy and started to drop the "F bomb" in every other sentence. F pointed out the kid and told him to turn it down; J has a 9 year old boy at home himself. With about 4 mintues left in the game, Cleveland started to make a run and cut Detroit's lead from about 12 to 5. There was a no-call on a shot that missed by the Pistons (there was no foul IMO). Now I couldn't care less about either team, but J is a big Pistons fan. He jumped up and started yelling profanities at the referees and spilled about a 1/4 cup of beer on the kid in front of him. Since he'd been dripping beer on the kid for about 10 minutes, the father finally got fed up with J and turned around and told him to shut up, sit down and stop spilling beer on his kid. A normal person would listen, but as T and I discussed later, "J has issues". He said (as best I recall) "why don't you f... yourself, old man, before I come down there and beat you". With that, the father did the worst thing that you can ever do to a drunk - he smacked almost-full beer cup out of J's hand. And with that, the fight was on. In retrospect, it was one of the most sissy fights I've ever witnessed. It was a 29 year old man vs a roughly 45 year old man, pushing and shoving each other in the stands. F, my coworker, stood up and got between them as fast as possible, but J just tried to go through him to get to the guy. A couple of punches were thrown, but none landed (except on F). I jumped up and tried to sit J down, but all he wanted to do was fight. We finally go J to sit down, and that's when security showed up. At this point, everyone in our section had pretty much formed an opinion of the 4 of us and told the security guards that we should be kicked out. Somehow, F managed to convince security to let us stay, but we had a guard sitting in our row for the rest of the game. Remember that beer in J's hands that went flying? It landed on the kid - all of it. So the kid was wearing a brewery. Thankfully, F was thinking clearly enough to offer the father $100 to buy the kid a new shirt, and although the guy didn't take it, he was classy enough to thank us for the offer. At the end of the game, J and the father ended up apologizing to each other and shaking hands, so it ended fairly well. T dropped us off at our cars, and F and J decided that we needed to go to what my Southern brethren refer to as a "shoe show", where the ladies model shoes for you and little or nothing else. Now J is dating a woman who's best friend works as a waitress one of these places, so that's where we go. As an aside, if I ever want to see beautiful women dance naked for me, I'll make it a point not to look in suburban Detroit on a Tuesday night. It turns out that some of J's friends are already there, so we ended up joining them. The friends get kicked out within 10 minutes of us sitting down for reaching their hands up the waitress's (not J's acquiantance) skirt. After about a half hour, J gets himself a lap dance from the token Russian girl in the place. She's doing her thing and talking dirty to him, but I'm paying more attention to what's going on up on stage. All of a sudden, the dancer jumps up and runs away in the middle of the song. I look over at J, just in time to watch him try to slip his cock back into his pants and zip up. I later pieced together that he said something along the lines of "I want to see your pussy" which prompted her to respond "I'll show you mine if you show me yours." Now anyone who's ever been to one of these places knows that Rule #2 of strip clubs is "you are never allowed to take your cock out" (Rule #1 being "don't touch unless you are instructed to"). The dancer runs over to the bouncer, who comes over and asks us if there's a problem. J looks up innocently and uses the modern equivalent of the Jedi Mind Trick of "yeah, my beer's gone, the waitress hasn't been here in 10 minutes, and that dancer just took off with my money. Where's the manager?" And it somehow worked. Not only did we stay in the club, we got comped drinks. There's no question here or even an obvious opening for discussion, but I thought that this was a pretty funny story and would share it. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

05-24-2006, 10:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I just don't get how people think that bad behavior is excused by alcoholic beverages. It's still bad behavior. It's also one of the biggest reasons that I just stopped going out with a set of drinking friends, because it became just totally stupid every time we went out. At least hold your liquor. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

05-24-2006, 10:44 AM	#3 (permalink)
stevo Rail Baron Location: Tallyfla	Nice story. __________________ "If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser

05-24-2006, 11:25 AM	#4 (permalink)
Jimellow Junkie	The guy sounds like an asshole. It's unfortunate he ruined the sporting event for two children, that likely were there for enjoyment. __________________ Desperation is no excuse for lowering one's standards.

05-26-2006, 05:27 AM	#12 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I really dislike people like J. They just don't get that there are rules of social interaction. Sure they understand them enough to apologize after the fact but they are just being diplomatic. They really don't give a shit. Karma will bite this guy in the ass. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-24-2006, 06:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	Oh man, what a nightmare. I'm getting too old for this type of stupid shit. Here's my question: If you're the father, what do you do? Do you really want to "start" a fight at a ball game, especially in front of your kid? On the other hand, you have to do SOMETHING right? I hate these situations. We're told all the time to be the bigger man and turn the cheek etc. And if we do the right thing: call for security? Then we are considered wusses right? What if the guy is way bigger and crazier than you? Is it worth a fight? Ugh, only thing worse than having to be in that situation in front of your kid is if you're with your woman. Agh... Tough situation the_Jazz. I hate those.

06-09-2006, 07:20 PM	#14 (permalink)
savvypup Crazy Location: Want to run away? Follow the light	You sound really decent Jazz - I admire that in a person. I guess you're right, just be friendly, keep it work orientated .......... and get away as soon as you can. Goodness though, how could you not enjoy golf! __________________ ciao bella!