Debt collection and consumer rights
 

I have (I think) debt collection places calling me.

The reason I don't know for sure is because it never gets beyond them asking if it's me.

1. It's from an "unknown" number.

2. They ask to speak with me and I reply, "Who's calling?" and they try to be all suave and say, "Oh, this is Crystal!" as if I know them.. so I ask "Crystal who?" and she asks, again, to speak with me. So I ask what company they're calling from (I believe I read somewhere that legally they have to disclose their company name), and at that point they either hang up or repeat themselves and ask for me, ignoring my question.

Problem is, I don't owe any debts. There was a mixup a while back where a collector called saying I owed Visa, but the last 4 digits of the Soc. didn't match mine, so it was clear they had the wrong person.

But I still get calls, and I'm about to file a police report for harassment.

The thing is, I'm not gonna give in and entertain their calls by verifying my identity to resolve it - if they're legally entitled to disclose information to me about who they're calling from and hang up when I ask them, then I'm gonna start taking legal action and at least get something out of it.

Another thing that irks me is having Vonage for my phone line. They have all sorts of technology available to email me voicemails, for me to check call status online, but they can't block unknown numbers?! Riiight..

Does anyone know offhand the legal stuff behind this? From what I've read, they aren't allowed to attempt to hide themselves, and I think they're using a loophole in the law by giving their real name (as in, the person calling), when it doesn't completely identify the company they're working for.

Collection agencies deserve everything you can get them on. If you can sue them, then do it. If you are adverse to suing someone, then do it for the principle, keep enough money to cover your costs and donate you're court awards to your favorite charity.

-tenchi

Wait until they start to call your friend and family to get a hold of you. Then it gets really fun.

You need to finally SPEAK with them. Ask them their information, WHO OWNS the debt. Ask them to send it to you in WRITING.

Tell them that you are now formally requesting that they leave you alone since you do not owe such debt. You then have to MAIL them a response stating that you do not owe them anything.

Also, they can and will, sell the debtor information to another company. This will come up again in the future and you have to do it again.

I've done it about at least 4 times for a debt that was charged off 20 years ago.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fdc.htm

Probably doesn't help you much since you don't want to verify who you are. It sounds like someone gave them an incorrect phone number.

Also, they MUST tell you why they are calling. If they don't identify the company your reply will be, "If you are calling to collect a debt you must identify the company you work for or you are in violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act." Then ask to speak to a supervisor.

I've had luck just invoking the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act from the start.

Heh I had the same issue and told them to stuff it, but now I'm getting calls for some woman who used our phone number (before it was ours) to fake credit card apps. We tell them its not us, they say sorry, they stop calling, 2 months later they start again. Its fucking annoying and I'm going to have to pull the big guns here myself.

You should check your credit report to see what's on it. Also, your phone company probably offers out of area or unknown call blocking. You need only respond to written notices, and to protect your rights, you must respond in writing. If you have caller ID, just don't answer if you don't recognize the number.

theres absolutely no reason to not tell them who you are. In fact, to persue telephonic harasment charges in my state anyway, you need to identify that you are the account holder of the line and that they have no communicative purpose to be calling you about. Pretty hard to do that if you play the i'm not saying who i am game.

Answer that it is you, then entertain them enough to get at least what company they are from, then advise them not to call you anymore, then follow it up with a letter advising same.

Also it may not be a collections agency, many "prescreened" offers are instructed to only talk to the person who is listed on their call sheet, and to arrange a call back if that person is unavailable.

Go ahead and say you're him. If they're calling about bogus debt claims, the only way to make them stop it is to tell the truth. Yeah, they shouldn't be calling in the first place, but if you go getting all self-righteous about that, you'll never be able to make them stop it.

I hope you didn't tell them your SSN when they called.
Lindy

No, I didn't tell them my soc #, they just repeated to me the last 4 digits of who they were looking for and I said, "No, that's not me."

I've tried stating, "By law, you must identify the company you work for" and then they hang up. That right there is what I wanna get 'em for.. but how do I go about identifying a company who does that and calls with "unknown"?

Also, there's a limit to how many times they can call you, which is once per day - so far they're calling 2 or 3 times a day, that's another thing I'm gonna get 'em on.

Thanks for the replies, I would've replied sooner but I never got an email from the subscription feature :\

distilled down to, "would you rather be right or happy?"

In this case, I'd rather be right AND happy.

They're clearly breaking the law at my expense, and from what I've read.. if I could identify who it was, I could get something out of it.

You think the police could tap the line (it's not even a line, it's Vonage, so through cable) and give me the info about who's calling?

correct, but you cannot.

in order to be RIGHT, you'll have to give up some of that "happiness" which you don't seem to have anyways because you are annoyed when they call.

if you took the time now to speak to them, you'd stop future annoyances and could be happy AND right.

It's highly possible that the company has a policy similar to the agency I used to work for.

Basically, we weren't allowed to divulge any information at all regarding the debt or the matter of the call until we verified that we were talking to the debtor or their legal spouse (but even that wasn't allowed in MA and only sometimes in PA). We could give our name, if they specifically asked the name of the company we could say, and if asked why we were calling only that it was a "personal business matter". It was aparently a legal matter that basically stated that it was a huge violation of their privacy (and the FDCPA) to state that they were in collections or had a debt until we had confirmed their identity (we had to confirm their name and address) and let them know that the call was "an attempt to collect a debt, and that all information obtained would be used for that purpose and that purpose only." If we skipped those steps, or failed to give that "disclaimer" verbatim we could be written up, fired, or even held legally liable.

I'd recommend that if they ask for you by name that you confirm it, though I wouldn't advocate giving out any info that's too sensitive (SSN for example), then ask them what company they work for nicely. I knew several collections agents that were MUCH more likely to follow protocol and answer questions when asked nicely, as they dealt with so many rude people in a shift (not saying that you're being rude, just letting you know how it sometimes works on the other end of the line). Don't be suprised if they can't discuss much with you at ALL until they've confirmed that it is, indeed, who they're looking for.

That job may be the best paying one they can get (in my part of WV it pays several dollars above the minimum wage, and offers health insurance, which is kind of rare here), and they're probably not going to risk losing it by accidently discussing information with the wrong person or by not following the company's legal disclaimers and such.

Hope you get it worked out.

nope. Its completely a civil matter, nothing criminal about what they are doing, and police can't help you in a civil matter without order of the court. You can sue them for calling you, they can get in trouble with their regulatory authority if they arn't following fair credit act regulations, but police cant do anything.

This is especially true when you arnt even identifying yourself to them. In most states you need to identify who you are and that you are the person in control of the line to do anything in the way of telephonic harassment. and even moreso, telephonic harassment laws have to show lack of communicative purpose -- and a pattern of harassment once there is no communicative purpose between the caller and you.... If they are calling to collect a debt -- legitimate or not, they have a communicative purpose with you and by not answering who you are every time renews the communicative purpose for them to keep calling.

Also, even if the police *could* do something, because you are using a voice over IP service, law enforcement does not have mechanism to tap or trace VOIP service calls beyond where they extend into the pstn currently. The FCC has recently ruled that voip service providers have until may of 2007 to be CALEA compliant, and at that point, law enforcment will have the same privledges of getting court ordered tap and trace access to voip calls as they do today on the pstn, but for now there is no standard access to voip providers.

I work in Bankruptcy at a local bank. It is a federal statute that requires a collector to give that disclaimer and prohibits a collector from speaking with anyone except the debtor about the debt. However, it is also a violation of the federal statutes to refuse to identify the company name upon request, even if it is a collection call.

I agree that you should invoke the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and if that doesn't work, simply stop answering unknown numbers and I think you can report them to the federal agency that regulates collection, though offhand I can't remember which agency that is.

Does Vonage offer the service where phone calls won't go through to you from Caller ID Blocked numbers or toll-free numbers? I was calling some people today about work, and because I'm working from home and using my cell phone, I didn't want my personal cell phone number going out for business things, so I blocked my ID. There was one call where I could push 1 to have my number show, or push 2 to identify myself or my company verbally. Another call simply didn't let blocked numbers through at all, so I had to turn the ID on then.

i don't believe vonage allows for blocking unknown numbers because there are several CLEC's which activly deny forwarding caller number delivery service to vonage and other voips, so they get a substantially higher number of out of areas or unknown calls comming to their subscribers than conventional carriers.

Just don't answer those calls...let them leave a message. They do that enough the calls will stop.

You've obviously never been harassed by Bill Collectors before. Once they start calling they never stop until you change the number. I went through a bankruptcy and it was the best thing I ever did. Of course, Bush & Co. have changed the laws in the last couple years so it's not as good as it used to be. My only advice is to change your phone number if possible.

Or else you tell them so-and-so moved or you think they have the wrong number. THAT works.

Actually, my son had a problem several years ago. They called for a few weeks but finallly stopped. Then that company sold the account and there was another 2 weeks of calls about 6-9 months later. And then it stopped again.

Perhaps my experience was unique and it also depends on the amount of money you're talking about. However, human nature dictates that sooner or later you'll stop doing something if it doesn't produce the desired results.

[COLOR="Indigo"][COLOR="SlateGray"]the easiest way to resolve it would be to speak with them and get it sorted out, it may not be even you they are looking for :) but as majik_6 said they cant sort it out until you confirm your detaikls...it isnt worth going thru court IMO when it could just be a matter of an incorrect number..or speakin to them and resolving a dispute :)
good luck!

Yesterday I had a collector calling my house from the company 'vital recoveries' trying to talk to my dad about a debt he supposedly owes on a van he had illegally repoed in '01. This dumb bitch wasn't very smart as I told her NO I wasn't my dad, but she could talk to me(I wanted to know what she was calling about, wouldn't tell me). She asked if I had power of attorney, and so I say 'no, but you can talk to me' and she starts too. I hung up as soon as I found out she was calling about the van, but if she was following the law I would of never got that info out of them, correct?