maleficent

I've noticed a trend lately, and perhaps it's just me, but I figure I'll throw it out there... Whenever someone has any type of relationship problem, at least one person will jump in with the answer to all their problems is COMMUNICATION... You have to COMMUNICATE...

Ok - well... Duh...

But telling someone they need to communicate with another person is like handing someone a dozen eggs and telling them to make a souffle... (at least to me, I'm terrible at communicating my thoughts - as clearly obvious here)

Looking at the definition of communicate, the best definition I can find is "be in verbal contact; interchange information or ideas" - OK - -but that's not always easy for some people.

How do you teach someone to communicate... Years ago, I had a conversation with a buddy, about the belief that i had, that people had to be taught to fight fair... These days, i'm leaning towards the belief that people also need to be taught to communicate.. Not just reminded to do it - actually learn the behavior...

How do you communicate with friends/significant others/colleagues. How do you like to communicated with and how do you get your need to be communicated with in a certain way, across to the person you are involved with.

In the past, I've found reasons for not communicating were either I knew the answer and I didn't want to hear it (avoidance is a wonderful thing), I didn't care enough to really follow thru (ahh apathy, my good friend), I didn't want to appear being needy or weak (damn that being strong persona I've not perfected very well), or I didn't know how to bring up the subject, or I just didn't want to hurt the other person's feelings, so I'd end up punishing myself by suffering.

I'm not a great communicater because I am terrible with the spoken word, I just don't know how to bring up certain subjects...

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healer

I tend to say what I think/feel. Sometimes the words just seem to be generated somewhere, skip my brain totally and just fly out of my mouth, without me having thought it through. Never good.

My communication skills are improving though. They've had to I guess. It's the only good thing that has come out of the long-distance phase my relationship with mandy is currently in. I've had to learn to communicate my thoughts and feelings better because things like facial expression and body language aren't there to help.

Communication, IMO, can only be taught to a certain extent. It takes you bumping your head and finding out what works for you to get any better at it.

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little_tippler

I am introverted, and also shy at times. Communication isn't as easy as it seems. I agree that it is something you have to learn, even for those who are more natural at it. I think we all go through life learning more and more about it every day.

Some of us, like myself, have turning points where we suddenly realize that the best way to get something through to others is through just saying them straight out, even though the consequences may be grim. Sometimes there just isn't a good way to say it, and someone will be hurt, offended, whatever.

I can't teach you how to communicate. But I can tell you the first thing you need to be able to communicate, is to want to do it. Because all those reasons above that you listed are exactly the reasons why communication fails. Not communicating is often a means of protecting yourself. From hearing out loud the truth exposed that you already know in your heart but are avoiding, from dealing with the truth once it's known, from having to deal with another person's reactions/ feelings resulting from your "communication".

But as you say, in the end it really just prolongs suffering. If it's in your head and you can't get it out, you're just going to hurt yourself more by not saying it. I'm not saying we should all just go around blurting out whatever we think/feel at any given moment.

But if the feeling is strong enough, then think what the best way of saying it to someone is, hurting them and yourself as little as possible, while admitting your own fault in the matter if it's present (honesty is VERY important here), and without compromising the truth of your statement. Soften the blow but don't compromise what you need to say. Also communication is not blaming someone else or venting, it's a two-way channel where you communicate your own feelings but are also open to the feelings of others.

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Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

fresnelly

Meaningful communication is hard work. Risky, intimidating hard work, where the prospect of failure always seems closer than success. You have to be willing to be outside of your comfort zone and take your lumps.

As such, the best way to learn is by example and through experience. Until you've seen successful communication in action, how can trust in its value? Without experience, it's just another platitude like "get an education" or "trust in yourself".

Actual experience is tricky, because of the old catch 22 where you need experience to get the job, but also the job to get experience.

If your parents and other role models are good communicators, then you're half way there. Being naturally petty or vengeful on the other hand, puts you in a hole. As well, the more you'be been hurt in the past, the harder all this is; once bitten, twice shy and all that.

To break that attrition, you have to just dive in, fully understanding that despite your good intentions, the effort will be rough, clumsy and could hurt. But sure enough, once that raw, awkward communication is out there, it can get easier. "You have to go through it, to get to it." It takes courage, faith, and good intentions to believe this.

Does this all sound a bit aphoristic? Is "aphoristic" even a word? I could try editing this post forever, and never feel it communicates my thoughts, but here it is. Here is where we start.

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Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

abaya

Well said, Fresnelly. Communication is by no means a given, for most people and couples. I had pretty bad examples of this as a kid, but I am pretty driven to communicate everything, all the time (maybe because my parents never really listened to me, or each other). Thus, I kind of start to go nuts within a few minutes (literally) if in-depth communication isn't taking place. I am generally uncomfortable with small-talk at social gatherings... it drains me, because it's not really communication.

I think ktspktsp and I do a fairly bang-up job of communicating, but we have a long way to go before it becomes natural for us (especially at a distance--that's where we suffer the most). It has taken a lot of hard work, hard conversations, a commitment to being vulnerable and being brutal at times... basically making a habit of sharing what's passing through our minds at any given time, without fear of the other's reaction. It is hard work for him to vocalize and elaborate on what he's feeling; it is hard work for me to try to focus exactly on what I'm feeling, instead of rambling on and on. But we keep trying, in good faith, "going through it to get to it" as Fresnelly said.

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ratbastid

Real communication is 99% listening. And listening isn't easy. For the most part, we don't actually listen to people. Instead we listen to what we're thinking about what they're saying, we're second-guessing them, we're strategizing about what we're going to say next. To actually HEAR what someone is saying without adding any interpretation to it takes some practice, but it's THE key to communication.

In order to do that, you've got to give up your own agenda, and what you want to say or have happen. That act alone is usually enough to deal with the issue or "problem" that's there to communicate about.

We hardly ever truly step into another person's shoes and really get how the world is for them. But that's where magic can happen in communication.

maleficent

Agreed... We've got two ears - one mouth, theoretically we should listen twice as much as we talk... but that rarely happens...

Being able to listen is a skill... One that can be taught? Probably... My mother always told me I never listened... (My parents I always saw as the adults talking in charlie brown... wonh wonh wonh... They never quite said anything a person could understand) I've had perfect strangers tell me that I listen very well - but... others... eh... no so much...

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Rodney

In a work environment, or whenever doing somthing with friends, I just try to keep everybody up to speed on what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, and what my assumptions are. ("Today I'm going out to XYZ to do ABC, but I'll be back in time for OPS. Is that working for you?") And if there's a hidden conflict or issue, my statement usually brings it out of the person who's listening, and we discuss it.

In other words, I talk about what I'm doing -- a lot. Not everybody responds to it, but most do. Some get into the habit and start telling me more about what _they're_ up to.

I actually learned to do this at work. I worked in a field where things could change hourly and where not all requirements were made clear; there was a lot of hidden knowledge. So I found that the best way to get things done was to take my best guess at what needed doing and tell/memo everyone what I planned to do and what my assumptions were. That usually gets the laggards out of the woodwork -- "Wait, you need to allow for -- "

What I have found is that to communicate you need to make a "straw man" (they call it a "straw horse" some places, for reasons I never understood) of reality as you understand it and show it to others. Once they have your total concept -- your work plan, vacation plan, plan for cleaning up around the house, assumptions for how you're going to get finances in order -- they're better able to see how your plans relate to them, and then to respond. When you build your straw man, of course, never present it as the ultimate truth -- just reality as you understand it right now.

Sage

I pontificate on the wonders of Communication because I've seen what a difference it makes in my own marriage. Through two wonderful years with Martel I've learned a lot about myself and how I deal with things. Sometimes it takes a lot of shouting and crying, but eventually we always settle down and really talk about anything that's bothering us, or that's causing a problem in our marriage.

For me, Communication is very well summed up in what ratbastid said. Remember, ratbastid speaks the truth. Being communicative with someone is all about being willing to listen to what they say, whether you like it or not, and think about it in a "I'm taking this seriously" kinda way. It's about having respect for the person you're talking to, and giving them the freedom to express themselves the way they need to in order to get what's bothering them offa their chests. For me, communication is something that is done best with people that you love- people that you're not quick to anger with if they get upset or are being unreasonable. Martel could write a book about trying to communicate with me, subborn Princess that I can be sometimes .

Communication is being willing to examine yourself in a non-biased way, to look at yourself and your behavior and say "I don't like this" or "I like this, this is ME." It's being able to listen to someone else make a suggestion about your personality or behavior and not instanly get mad and skulk off. It's a very "grown-up" attitude to have, being able to lend an ear to someone who isn't shouting your praises. Mainly, it all boils down to waiding through the bullshit that people surround themselves with daily and really, honestly, openly SHARING yourself and your thoughts, whatever they may be, with someone and knowing that they'll listen and be open and supportive of you NO MATTER WHAT.

So no, it's not easy to communicate. If it was easy then there'd be a LOT less strife going on in relationships. Cutting out the bullshit is hard to do- being totally 100% honest all the time is really hard to do. Think of all the times in one day you tell a little white lie to someone- "I'm fine" "I don't need any help" "I'm not upset" "I'd be happy to do that" etc etc etc. That's all the bullshit that people throw around that keeps them from being honest and open all the time. That's the bullshit that has to end if you want to communicate with someone. If you're being totally honest with someone, you should be able to say "I really don't want to do that" "I feel horrid" "Yes please I need help" "I'm really maddeningly angry right now" etc. Communication is hard because it involves massive trust in the person that you're communicating with to not stomp all over your feelings when you leave yourself open and vulnerable. Most people are used to bottling things inside all the time and are not used to sharing themselves with anyone, so communicating can be difficult for most.

However, communicating with someone, most of all your SO, will open up doors you never dreamed possible. Knowing someone inside and out, knowing they'll be there for you 100%, knowing their innermost thoughts... it makes having a relationship with them sublime. It provides a connection that you'll probably never have with anyone else, making them your best friend and confidant as well as your SO. It's made me insanely happy in my marriage, it's made my life so much better, it's literally changed the way I look at the world. So when someone comes to TFP bemoaning the current state of their life, I open up to them and say "hey, stop a minute and be honest with yourself and those around you." The truth will set you free.

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abaya

Awesome. You've expressed this very well, Sage. Communication really is about vulnerability, and the willingness to un-bottle oneself. I think a person's communication confidence level is at a good place when they take the initiative to share their feelings (without needing someone else to pry into them first), but don't share so much that they overwhelm the other person's ability to respond. It is a delicate balance.

Rodney, I like your approach. Your "statement" is very much how I try to communicate in my relationships and at work, though I don't always succeed. I definitely agree about having the "total concept" (an idea of all the plans that go on inside everyone's head, but that they don't always share), communication is sooooo much easier. Otherwise, the default is to make assumptions about what the other person is thinking, that are most likely not true. Communicating about the "reality in the now"--not ultimate truth, just what IS, right now, in one's head... I like that very much.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

savvypup

Good thread Maleficent! I'm terrible at verbally communicating with anyone close to me. I don't want to be hurt by what others may have to say, which is stupid I know. I can't control everything right? and it's another's perspective which I need to respect even if I don't agree or it hurts.

I saw a marriage counsellor once, and she was great at listening to what I had to say, but to first start listening, she knew how to prompt me to talk. That was a huge help for me, and I walked out feeling like a weight had been lifted even after just one session. I need prompting unfortunately, and as soon as someone starts on the attack (frustration, anger) I clamp up. It's almost like I can hear my inner self saying - 'fuckin just say it, get it out' but my lips are sealed shut.

One reason I can think of as to why I clam up, is because I think in the past, I've had trouble articulating what I really mean and what I'm saying gets totally misconstrued. A close friend who's the total opposite - he can talk under wet cement, keeps telling me to blurt it out. If the other person doesn't understand or is upset and takes it the wrong way, then just tell them that. For some reason though, I think they'll think 'Christ!, I've seen their reaction, so now I'm trying to backpaddle' Ironically, often easier said than done with me.

I agree I think it requires 'training'. My parents aren't the most chatty people and who better to learn from right?

But where to start ........

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ciao bella!