mbchills

for my arabic class i'm going to do a presentation on the differences between judaism and islam. in one of my political science classes we discussed how judaism and islam both share the same ethics when it comes to waging war; a total war. can anyone share some similarities or differences between the two religions and cultures that they know ? i plan to do research in the upcoming weeks but was wondering if you guys could give me a head start.

thanks

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rawr.

rsl12

tee hee i won't spout any facts, partly because my memory is always a bit off, and partly because you shouldn't be citing TFP as one of your sources! Instead I will direct you to a great book regarding the topic: "Holy War", by Karen Armstrong. Armstrong has an interesting take on the relationship between the Christian crusades and the modern conflict. Her goal is to present history from three points of view - christian,islamic, and judaic. Though I think she's a bit softer with islam than the jews and christians, it's undoubtedly a fascinating read. It's basically the same story told over and over again, where variables C, I, and J continually change places--X is firmly established in the holy land, with peaceful Y and Z minorities. The major kingdom of Y decides that the holy land really should belong within its domain, setting off a set of events that lead to persecution of Z minorities within Y kingdom, and a bloody war against X. The side that wins a pivotal battle comes away thinking that God is on their side, while the losing side believes that sins among the congretation are the reason for its defeat. Most alarming of all, kingdom Y often believes that, in invading into the holy land, it is accelerating the coming of armageddon. What C, I, and J have in common is: the abraham story of coming to a promised land, a fetish for exiled heroes, and an apocalyptic view of the end of the world. I learned a great deal from this book, though I've been told the author's "Battle for God" is superior to this.

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WillyPete

I wuoldn't draw a similarity between tose two regarding total war, as most regligions tend to have the same view.

"If you want the land, fine, we can share with the victor, but to take our beliefs away? Then that is to resign us to our idea of Hell. We'd rather die!"

Most religions also state that to die in the defence of the religion is a shortcut to heaven, leading many people to do things they normally wouldn't do in any other type of conflict.


For instance, if the islamic world was somehow capable of a huge invasion of the US with the intent of taking over and had the sheer numbers and resources to do so, then at some point, I believe the government would accede to the need to ensure the safety ofthe survivors and surrender.
But were the same to occur with the announcement that they were going to do it not to occupy the land but to make everyone accept islam, I'd expect nuclear weapons to be used on US soil and an approval amongst those who would suffer from it.

My point is that many things seem more acceptable to a lot of people when they have a religious motivation.

Proposing a death penalty for a crime is easier when quoting Genesis & Exodus, but harder when it comes to plain law and morals without religious reasons.
The same for the Abortion question and other very contentious subjects.

Notice how most of the really hotly debated issues are always clouded by religious folks?

Islamism v Judaism is only one such example.

To be honest their shared ancestry is another religious figure: Abraham. Start with him and work your way up.

flat5

I'm told Abraham is the key difference. The Jews chose one son and Islam chose the other.

WillyPete

No, the truth is that the Arab tribes formed from the son of the concubine, and sarah's son fathered the tribes of isreal.

Muhammed later united many of the arab tribes under the banner of islam and the old disputes of being 'cheated' of their inheritance by Isreal still chaps their hides.

flat5

Well I said it wrong but yeah, the sons were the start.

How were the arabs 'cheated'?

WillyPete

That's their argument.

Sarah (Abraham's wife) caused Hagar (Her handmaiden/ his concubine) and Abraham's son by Hagar (Ishmael), to be sent away after the birth of Isaac.
Sarah is claimed to have said that she didn't want her only son to have to compete with the older Ishmael as an heir to Abraham.
So Abraham gives Hagar some food and water and sends her and Ishmeal away, where they become lost in the desert but get the help of an angel.


Thus, the descendants of Ishmael cl;aim to have been cheated out of their birthright.
In early Genesis, the birthright is also to be considered as God's blessing, or favouritism.

jorgelito

the irony is Sarah couldn't bear a son so prayed to God - and he told her to allow Abraham to sleep with Hagar and Sarah agreed. But later, she got jealous and basically reneged - sent Hagar away after God allowed hear to bear a son.

It's really Saraha's fault.

Toaster126

One similarity certainly is that they worship the same guy.

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Xazy

They both hold of a lunar year for the calender rather then the solar year. Jewish calender allows for a leap month to be put in interval years (there is a 19 year cycle for this), to keep the months during certain seasons (since certain holidays all belong in certain seasons).

rsl12

?? Certainly martyrdom is a sure way to get accolades from both this world and the one above in every religion, but fighting in a religious war? Outside judeochristian (or, if you like, abrahamic) religions, what religions emphasize that dying in a holy war is a shortcut to heaven? Here are the major non-judeochristian religions that I can think of:

buddhism
hinduism
jainism
sikhism
shintoism
shamanism

certainly, militant groups exist for a few of these (hinduism, sikhism), but I don't think that 'killing nonbelievers=salvation' has ever been dogma for any of these (except maybe sikhism?). I'm no expert, however--correct me if I'm wrong.

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WillyPete

Bad choice of words on my behalf.

I should have stated 'judeo-christian religions', as you have pointed out.
I wasn't really focussing on the others that you've listed.

Aurakles

Well, now, this is an interesting topic. I wish you were comparing all three--Christianity, Judaism, and Islam--because that would be easier in one sense. Why? You can't really talk about Judaism and Islam without making references to Christianity. For instance, take their view of Jesus. Islam sees him as a prophet of "God" that did not die, but rather ascended to heaven during the crucifixion. Both Judaism and Christianity say that he died by crucifixion; plus, of, course, Christians believe in the resurrection. Still, Judaism views him as a false prophet, while Islam posits him as a true prophet, whose message has been corrupted. Obviously, in Christianity he is seen as the son of "God" and the messiah (and in some sects as "God" incarnate). Jesus is important in comparing the three because, even though they are all monotheistic religions, Islam and Judaism are stricter in their monotheistic belief. Many Christians believe in the "Holy Trinity," which has many interpretations. If you just wish to compare Islam and Judaism, it really depends on which aspect(s) of the religions, because they are both complex and multi-layered. Islam is stricter in one sense and not strict in another. For example, Islam espouses a literal interpretation of its holy text (the Qur'an); there is an eternal heaven (paradise) and eternal hell--nothing in between or varying. Judaism, however, isn't that literal; the interpretation of heaven and hell vary, from no heaven or no afterlife to a heaven and hell. In any case, there's just too much to go into. If you want specific comparisons of specific subjects/aspects, then that might be much easier.

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Xazy

Nope he was a Jew, that is about it for me. Everything else about a person is for G-d to decide.

Aurakles

I was talking about how the religion views him, not how individual people view him. I am also aware that he was Jewish, but that doesn't exactly say how the religion viewed him. I am a human, but all of humanity will not view me the same. In any case, I was just pointing out the way he is viewed by these three religions, since that was in line with the OP's question.

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