Synthetic diamonds - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Redlemon · 08-01-2005, 06:01 AM

In the Ladies' Lounge, there's a current thread about engagement rings. In the middle of the thread, Sage has a post where she mentions

Quote:

I'm appaled that ANY woman wants a diamond anywhere near her finger. Especially now that synthetic diamonds are virtually identical to natural diamonds. I can buy a five carat synthetic diamond that looks, glitters, and cuts glass just like a nautral diamond for thirty dollars.

I'm interested in finding out more about this. Does anyone have experience in purchasing synthetic diamonds, or other gemstones? Can you just go to a jeweler and request that they replace the stones with synthetics? There's a really nice jeweler by me that does all custom work, and I'd never be able to afford the stuff they presently sell. I'd be willing to pay for their design work and high quality metals. My wife would be fine with it as well; she didn't want a diamond for her engagement ring, because she wouldn't feel comfortable carrying that much money on her hand.

Charlatan · 08-01-2005, 06:09 AM

On a side note, there was a lengthy article in Wired a year ago or so that examined the two methods for producing syntetic diamonds. Here is the archived story: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.htm

My wife has always said, she doesn't care if the diamond is real or not... just that it is pretty.

As for real diamonds, there is all the issues surrounding where they come from... many come from places that sell the diamonds to support war. If you can, ask for Canadian diamonds. They are just as nice and their proceeds don't go towards spilling more blood...

VitaminChemE · 08-01-2005, 07:52 AM

i haven't read anything on the topic in quite some time, but aren't synthetic diamonds very yellow/orange in color?

maleficent · 08-01-2005, 10:55 AM

I remember that Wired article....

I've seen some synthetic diamonds, they don't look bad, and unless you have a jewelers loop, you will not see a difference, they have the same color and clarity, and from everything I have read - PRICE as real diamonds.

I personally, wouldn't pay a high price for something fake, if I could get the real thing for the same price.

I personally prefer estate style jewelry, rather than new stuff... I have diamond studs that belonged to my great aunt and have no guilt or anything for wearing them.

Jinn · 08-01-2005, 12:00 PM

I remembered the Wired article AND had it bookmarked

:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html

It's advanced a bit from that article.. they're definitely able to be made clear now, and much cheaper. I don't know how much the price difference is, but I'm pretty sure if I ever "tie the knot" I'll go with synthetic diamonds: so geeky, I like it!!

Sage · 08-01-2005, 06:28 PM

Alrighty- I'm a jeweler's apprentice, and the jeweler I'm studying under has bought/showed me some synthetic diamonds. She's got a HUGE one that she paid about $6 for. That's right, $6. At least a carat. Anywho, apparently there's only two differences between "real" and "synthetic" diamonds- one is a little heavier than the other per carat weight (she didn't remember which one) and, if the diamond has a flat side on it and you put it down over words (like over the page of a book) you can see words through a synthetic diamond and you can't through a natural diamond. Otherwise, there's no way to tell. I'm particularly excited about this because I really like diamonds but don't like the price/ the DeBeers Cartel stuff.

If you guys have any more questions PM me or something, and I'll ask my master.

Redlemon · 08-02-2005, 05:19 AM

Yes, I remember the Wired article well, especially the cover art

.

(click here for full size)

Sage, does your master sell synthetics, or just play with them?

jwoody · 08-02-2005, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage

if the diamond has a flat side on it and you put it down over words (like over the page of a book) you can see words through a synthetic diamond and you can't through a natural diamond.

If you guys have any more questions PM me or something, and I'll ask my master.

Can anyone find me a picture of this 'words through a diamond' phenomenon. I'm having real difficulty imagining how this works.

..or, if anyone has a particularly large diamond lying around, could they post it to me so I can try it myself?

Charlatan · 08-02-2005, 07:26 AM

The reason, if I remeber correctly, that the words can be read is because synthetic diamonds are perfect. Real diamonds, even the best, have flaws in their matrix.

Locobot · 08-02-2005, 10:55 PM

Wow after reading that Wired article I'm not sure why anyone would want a mined diamond. I can't wait for the synthetics to become widely available. With a little competitive market pressure they should become really cheap.

I liked how that the one jeweler could identify the synthetic diamond by the fact that it was too perfect.

Sage · 08-03-2005, 05:10 PM

You know, that totally makes sense now..

anywho, my master (and I call her that because I don't really know what to call her... I'm an apprentince... so I guess she's the master...) makes stuff with the synthetic diamonds- she keeps calling them CZ (cubic zarconias) but they're not, because you can put them in the ultrasonic cleaner, which you can't do with CZ. I think it's just shorthand for her so she doesn't have to call them "synthetic diamonds" which takes a long time to say.

"Now I am the master and you are the learner"

Munku · 08-03-2005, 10:23 PM

Y'know, the reason people like diamonds are because they are expensive and rare.. if people start mass producing them the price will drop down and everyone will have them making them not as special..

ObieX · 08-03-2005, 10:57 PM

Then again with all those synthetics around the price for real diamonds may go up. We have been mining diamonds for a long time now, im suprised the market isnt flooded with them already to be honest. I mean its not like they decompose or are edible.

There's tons of industrial applications for diamonds. The more perfect the better. So cheap synthetics are a really good thing.

I never really understood why anyone would pay so much for a shiny rock anyway. *shrugs*

Slavakion · 08-04-2005, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObieX

Then again with all those synthetics around the price for real diamonds may go up. We have been mining diamonds for a long time now, im suprised the market isnt flooded with them already to be honest. I mean its not like they decompose or are edible.

You can thank De Beers for that. As I understand it, De Beers has a crapload of diamonds but only releases a small amount to keep the price up.

And diamonds do slowly "decompose" back into the graphite form of carbon (we're talking millions of years, though).

Redlemon · 08-04-2005, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munku

Y'know, the reason people like diamonds are because they are expensive and rare.. if people start mass producing them the price will drop down and everyone will have them making them not as special..

Well, they also sparkle quite nicely. You can't forget that part.

I've noticed something similar with the semi-precious stones. Some of them are quite pretty as well; however, the settings for them usually look (and are) cheap. That's why I'm wondering if I can get high-quality jewelery settings with synthetic diamonds. I guess I'll just have to ask a local place directly.

Charlatan · 08-04-2005, 06:24 AM

Redlemon... you can get what ever you want. Just get it done custom. It really isn't that expensive.

I designed a ring for my wife for our 10th wedding anniversary. When we were married I bought her an antique ring for about $100 dollars (a lot to me at the time - she later had it appraised and it turned out the diamond was very good and it was valued at $1100).

To make a long story short. The band was weak and it broke. I took the ring to a jewler who melted it down, added some more white gold, a few more diamonds and viola! My design came to life.

The cost of the creation was a few hundred dollars. The cost of the new diamonds was a little bit more.

Lebell · 08-04-2005, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slavakion

You can thank De Beers for that. As I understand it, De Beers has a crapload of diamonds but only releases a small amount to keep the price up.

And diamonds do slowly "decompose" back into the graphite form of carbon (we're talking millions of years, though).

Exactly.

Diamonds are neither expensive nor rare.

But like Bill Gates beating down Apple, like VHS winning over Beta, DeBeers has managed to pretty much corner the diamond market, control the price AND make everyone think that they NEED a diamond.

Now the big push for them is to make the synthetic stones somehow "fake" or somehow "lesser" than the natural ones.

BS cubed.

Dug out of the ground or made in a lab, it's the same damn mineral. I would by a lab made stone in a second.

clavus · 08-04-2005, 05:00 PM

My wife loves her diamond because it adorned my grandfather, whom she loved dearly. Had he worn a fake diamond, a garnet, a ruby, or a chunk of quartz, I think my wife would have wanted it in her ring.

I think jewelry should be personal and meaningful.

The world is full of empty-headed gits sporting big diamonds and Rolex watches. They have no comprehension of what is truly precious and what is tripe.

reiii · 08-04-2005, 08:16 PM

pressure + heat + graphite= diamond mmmmm

the field of diamond-cell physics has really been helped by the cheap method of making the hardest material known to man

if you put enough heat on a diamond you can get it to turn back to graphite... try it with your wife's wedding ring

soccerchamp76 · 08-05-2005, 10:29 PM

A diamond is a diamond is a diamond. If it was made in a lab, or naturally over a million years, the process is exactly the same. Heat + pressure + graphite (ie carbon) = diamond!!!

If you are cheap, buy her some graphite and tell her its the same mineral.

aKula · 08-06-2005, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soccerchamp76

A diamond is a diamond is a diamond. If it was made in a lab, or naturally over a million years, the process is exactly the same. Heat + pressure + graphite (ie carbon) = diamond!!!

If you are cheap, buy her some graphite and tell her its the same mineral.

I'll just burn a stick and present her the charred remains

Redlemon · 08-06-2005, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soccerchamp76

If you are cheap, buy her some graphite and tell her its the same mineral.

Just before going to a dance, I once gave a girl a packet of flower seeds and two rubberbands as a corsage. Fortunately, she found it funny.

Suave · 08-10-2005, 12:14 AM

Haha oh man Redlemon. That's a balsy joke to play. Could leave you solo at the dance.

Blackthorn · 08-15-2005, 07:36 PM

I always liked this verse to the James Buffet not so classic Ritz Big Diamond...

---------------------------------------

COAL UNDER PRESSURE
SPARKLE OF TREASURE
CRYSTALLINE MEASURE
ORNAMENTAL PLEASURE
IN THE CORNER OF YOUR EYE
MAKE A GROWN MAN CRY
ALL THE SEEDS YOU'VE SOWN

GREED CAN CRUMBLE CASTLE WALLS
GREED CAN PURCHASE YOU THRILLS
POWER IS A DANGEROUS THING
IT CAN MAIM IT CAN KILL

IT WAS A DIAMOND AS BIG AS THE RITZ
WHAT YOU GONNA DO WITH THIS, TELL ME
WHO'S GONNA SAVE YOU WHEN YOU'RE A SLAVE TO
THE DIAMOND AS BIG AS THE RITZ

dtheriault · 08-16-2005, 10:55 AM

One of the best synthetic diamonds out there is Moissanite.

Cool article on Moissanite with pictures and graphics

About the only way you can tell the difference is with a special measuring tool that they show on the third page of the article. It's almost like a diamond in that there are small internal flaws and the color is clear.

You could get a one carat Moissanite that normally would cost 3-5,000$ if it were a diamond for around $500.

There are websites specifically devoted to Moissanite gems and jewlers who specialize in it.

I can get a platinum one carat tiffany copy ring made of Moissanite for around $1200. At Tiffany's it would be around $7000.

Click here to see the copy ring

I never bought a diamond engagement ring for my wife because I don't believe in them. (We have platinum wedding bands from Tiffany) I've thought of buying her a platinum Moissanite Tiffany copy, but I'm not sure how it would go over (no little blue box.)

08-01-2005, 06:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	On a side note, there was a lengthy article in Wired a year ago or so that examined the two methods for producing syntetic diamonds. Here is the archived story: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.htm My wife has always said, she doesn't care if the diamond is real or not... just that it is pretty. As for real diamonds, there is all the issues surrounding where they come from... many come from places that sell the diamonds to support war. If you can, ask for Canadian diamonds. They are just as nice and their proceeds don't go towards spilling more blood... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-01-2005, 07:52 AM	#3 (permalink)
VitaminChemE Tilted Location: BloNiag	i haven't read anything on the topic in quite some time, but aren't synthetic diamonds very yellow/orange in color? __________________ Light a man a fire and he's warm for the night; light a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life

08-01-2005, 10:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I remember that Wired article.... I've seen some synthetic diamonds, they don't look bad, and unless you have a jewelers loop, you will not see a difference, they have the same color and clarity, and from everything I have read - PRICE as real diamonds. I personally, wouldn't pay a high price for something fake, if I could get the real thing for the same price. I personally prefer estate style jewelry, rather than new stuff... I have diamond studs that belonged to my great aunt and have no guilt or anything for wearing them. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

08-01-2005, 12:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	I remembered the Wired article AND had it bookmarked : http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html It's advanced a bit from that article.. they're definitely able to be made clear now, and much cheaper. I don't know how much the price difference is, but I'm pretty sure if I ever "tie the knot" I'll go with synthetic diamonds: so geeky, I like it!! __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

08-01-2005, 06:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	Alrighty- I'm a jeweler's apprentice, and the jeweler I'm studying under has bought/showed me some synthetic diamonds. She's got a HUGE one that she paid about $6 for. That's right, $6. At least a carat. Anywho, apparently there's only two differences between "real" and "synthetic" diamonds- one is a little heavier than the other per carat weight (she didn't remember which one) and, if the diamond has a flat side on it and you put it down over words (like over the page of a book) you can see words through a synthetic diamond and you can't through a natural diamond. Otherwise, there's no way to tell. I'm particularly excited about this because I really like diamonds but don't like the price/ the DeBeers Cartel stuff. If you guys have any more questions PM me or something, and I'll ask my master. __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

08-02-2005, 05:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	Yes, I remember the Wired article well, especially the cover art . (click here for full size) Sage, does your master sell synthetics, or just play with them? __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

08-02-2005, 07:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	The reason, if I remeber correctly, that the words can be read is because synthetic diamonds are perfect. Real diamonds, even the best, have flaws in their matrix. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-02-2005, 10:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
Locobot is awesome!	Wow after reading that Wired article I'm not sure why anyone would want a mined diamond. I can't wait for the synthetics to become widely available. With a little competitive market pressure they should become really cheap. I liked how that the one jeweler could identify the synthetic diamond by the fact that it was too perfect.

08-03-2005, 05:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	You know, that totally makes sense now.. anywho, my master (and I call her that because I don't really know what to call her... I'm an apprentince... so I guess she's the master...) makes stuff with the synthetic diamonds- she keeps calling them CZ (cubic zarconias) but they're not, because you can put them in the ultrasonic cleaner, which you can't do with CZ. I think it's just shorthand for her so she doesn't have to call them "synthetic diamonds" which takes a long time to say. "Now I am the master and you are the learner" __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

08-03-2005, 10:23 PM	#12 (permalink)
Munku Lost Location: Florida	Y'know, the reason people like diamonds are because they are expensive and rare.. if people start mass producing them the price will drop down and everyone will have them making them not as special..

08-03-2005, 10:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	Then again with all those synthetics around the price for real diamonds may go up. We have been mining diamonds for a long time now, im suprised the market isnt flooded with them already to be honest. I mean its not like they decompose or are edible. There's tons of industrial applications for diamonds. The more perfect the better. So cheap synthetics are a really good thing. I never really understood why anyone would pay so much for a shiny rock anyway. shrugs __________________ We Must Dissent. Last edited by ObieX; 08-03-2005 at 11:02 PM..

08-04-2005, 06:24 AM	#16 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Redlemon... you can get what ever you want. Just get it done custom. It really isn't that expensive. I designed a ring for my wife for our 10th wedding anniversary. When we were married I bought her an antique ring for about $100 dollars (a lot to me at the time - she later had it appraised and it turned out the diamond was very good and it was valued at $1100). To make a long story short. The band was weak and it broke. I took the ring to a jewler who melted it down, added some more white gold, a few more diamonds and viola! My design came to life. The cost of the creation was a few hundred dollars. The cost of the new diamonds was a little bit more. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-04-2005, 05:00 PM	#18 (permalink)
clavus pow! Location: NorCal	My wife loves her diamond because it adorned my grandfather, whom she loved dearly. Had he worn a fake diamond, a garnet, a ruby, or a chunk of quartz, I think my wife would have wanted it in her ring. I think jewelry should be personal and meaningful. The world is full of empty-headed gits sporting big diamonds and Rolex watches. They have no comprehension of what is truly precious and what is tripe. __________________ Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

08-04-2005, 08:16 PM	#19 (permalink)
reiii unstuck in time Location: Nashville/D.C.	pressure + heat + graphite= diamond mmmmm the field of diamond-cell physics has really been helped by the cheap method of making the hardest material known to man if you put enough heat on a diamond you can get it to turn back to graphite... try it with your wife's wedding ring __________________ "Jombe? The chocolate icing" -hedonism bot

08-05-2005, 10:29 PM	#20 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	A diamond is a diamond is a diamond. If it was made in a lab, or naturally over a million years, the process is exactly the same. Heat + pressure + graphite (ie carbon) = diamond!!! If you are cheap, buy her some graphite and tell her its the same mineral. __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

08-10-2005, 12:14 AM	#23 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	Haha oh man Redlemon. That's a balsy joke to play. Could leave you solo at the dance. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

08-15-2005, 07:36 PM	#24 (permalink)
Blackthorn Beware the Mad Irish Location: Wish I was on the N17...	A Diamond as Big as the Ritz... I always liked this verse to the James Buffet not so classic Ritz Big Diamond... --------------------------------------- COAL UNDER PRESSURE SPARKLE OF TREASURE CRYSTALLINE MEASURE ORNAMENTAL PLEASURE IN THE CORNER OF YOUR EYE MAKE A GROWN MAN CRY ALL THE SEEDS YOU'VE SOWN GREED CAN CRUMBLE CASTLE WALLS GREED CAN PURCHASE YOU THRILLS POWER IS A DANGEROUS THING IT CAN MAIM IT CAN KILL IT WAS A DIAMOND AS BIG AS THE RITZ WHAT YOU GONNA DO WITH THIS, TELL ME WHO'S GONNA SAVE YOU WHEN YOU'RE A SLAVE TO THE DIAMOND AS BIG AS THE RITZ __________________ What are you willing to give up in order to get what you want?

08-16-2005, 10:55 AM	#25 (permalink)
dtheriault Psycho Location: maybe utah	One of the best synthetic diamonds out there is Moissanite. Cool article on Moissanite with pictures and graphics About the only way you can tell the difference is with a special measuring tool that they show on the third page of the article. It's almost like a diamond in that there are small internal flaws and the color is clear. You could get a one carat Moissanite that normally would cost 3-5,000$ if it were a diamond for around $500. There are websites specifically devoted to Moissanite gems and jewlers who specialize in it. I can get a platinum one carat tiffany copy ring made of Moissanite for around $1200. At Tiffany's it would be around $7000. Click here to see the copy ring I never bought a diamond engagement ring for my wife because I don't believe in them. (We have platinum wedding bands from Tiffany) I've thought of buying her a platinum Moissanite Tiffany copy, but I'm not sure how it would go over (no little blue box.) __________________ "Remember, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." -Homer Unless you are the freakin Highlander, what is the point in learning how to fight with a sword?