CoachAlan

At truck stops and roadsides and warehouses all across America (and presumably the world) tonight, there will be thousands and thousands of trucks idling away the hours. I know the truckers have to keep their air conditioners or heaters running, but can't the battery do that? And doesn't idling for hours and hours waste tremendous amounts of gas?

Why do truckers do this?

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the_marq

A couple reasons:

*the AC would probably kill the battery in about 20-30 minutes, the average heater would last about twice that. Not to mention the lights in the sleeper, TV, DVD player, Laptop Computers, refridgerator and so on.
*The large diesel engines go thru a ton of wear and tear when starting. It's much easier on the engine to leave it running.

I would guess (and this is just a guess) that during 6 hours of idling the engine might burn thru 3-5 gallons of diesel fuel. What's that about $8?

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iamnormal

The battery is used to start the engine. The engine runs the AC compressor, the alternator and makes heat for the heater.
The alternator recharges the battery and powers the electrical devices.

You may like this system being put in around the country at truck stops. http://www.idleaire.com/

CoachAlan

Sure enough, I do like that idea. And I knew that this community would have an answer for me.

So idling is as wasteful and inefficient as I thought, it's just that nobody has come up with a better way to power the cabs of trucks without the engine running (until now, apparently).

Thanks for the reply. And if anybody has any more to add, I'd love to learn more about this situation.

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Supple Cow

Wow, I never knew trucks idled with their engines running. IdleAire is pretty cool.

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saltfish

Just to make sure that we're on the same page, a running engine that is not being used to 'move' the vehicle is idling. It just means leaving the engine running.

The idea that an diesel engine wears from starting and stopping may have been true 30 years ago. Today, you're going to see idling as a primary cause of premature engine wear.

I see it all the time, truckers who park their rig, get out, and go eat dinner, leaving the engine idle all the time. This practice is nothing more than waste, pure and simple. Laziness...

Many trucking companies have even installed bi-directional GPS like devices that can even let HQ know that the rig is parked and idling, the driver can be reprimanded for being a habitual offender. Idling causes hundreds of thousands of pound of Co2, Co, Nitric Oxides and such every year, merely from allowing the engine to run. Think of the amount of fossil fuels (foreign based) that we could save???

3-5 gallons of diesel may seem small, but when you multiply that by 100,000's of thousands of trucks, PER DAY, you start to see how big of an issue this really is.

...also, many truckers that have live-in cabs will have high efficiency generators that power heaters and appliances. These generators use a fraction of the fuel that the 'rig' would, while at the same time, producing less toxic emissions.

If anyone is interested in a related topic, many school districts are starting to mandate that busses stop their idling practice and conserve fuel, just Google it!
-SF

CoachAlan

Thank you, saltfish. I have to admit that the reason I asked the question was that I was looking for an answer like the one you just gave. It certainly all seems phenomenally wasteful.

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iamnormal

Why blame one bad apple for destroying the orchard especially one that has allready been picked?

CoachAlan

I don't think I follow what you're saying, iamnormal. Are you making a reference to environmental degradation or something?

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kutulu

Even if engines wear less at startup than they used to, I don't see how a cold startup could cause more wear than leaving is running for several hours.

I don't see why this system is needed as an add-on device. Why couldn't trucks just be designed with a plugin to hook up to A/C power?

iamnormal

Yes. It's the whole american way of life that is messed up. A truck idleing in a parking lot is just a byproduct of how we live.

saltfish

Actually, it's a byproduct of a 'majority' of the people who drive trucks.

You can always tell the difference between a private-owner driver and a corporate driver. ...the private-owner driver turns off their engine.

Supple Cow

Right. What I meant was 'I didn't realize trucks that sit around at night keep their engines running'. I was using the word 'idle' more generally to mean 'not moving'.

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saltfish

I figured, though I just wanted to be sure.

-SF

jlambert

Mmmm, $8 per truck * 100,000 trucks = $800,000/night

Thats $2.4 MILLION PER MONTH

What a waste.

CoachAlan

Actually, $800,000 x 30 = $24 million. THAT is a waste.

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jlambert

stupid me got my zeros mixed up :P either way, I'd be firing some drivers.

merkerguitars

Won't be too much of a waste whenever we finally switch to biodiesel

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Vogad

Even at $8 per night (8 hours of rest) its still cheaper (than a motel) and convenient for the driver. Due to the LAW, when they reach their maximun allowable driving time they have to pull over and park (might not be a suitable truck stop for 100 miles)..
Sure its a waste of diesal fuel, but to the driver its a lot more cost-effective than losing LEGAL driving time...

saltfish

I will agree with you when it comes to cost-effectiveness. Though, if a driver were to leave the rig and eat dinner for an hour, all the while leaving the rig running, that would be an totally unnecessary instance of idling.

-SF

roadkill

Whats biodiesel I've never heard of it.

cj2112

sometimes it's not the tractor you hear idling, but the refrigeration unit for the trailer they are pulling. When hauling refrigerated loads, the trailer has a diesel powered referigeration unit that is thermostatically controlled, this is how frozen foods and blood and such gets transported.

saltfish

Diesel fuel that is man-made, sometimes found blended with regular low-sulfur diesl or in a pure form, it contains less long-chian-hydrocarbons (waxes, etc) and more pure, shorter hydrocarbons.

-SF

mokle

Where i work, it can get to -40 degrees, so we usually leave trucks running unless they're parked inside a shop

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Glava

$24 million to the North American trucking industry is like a penny to an average person.

basmoq

increadibly informative, wow, I've never thought of this before! Thanks for the post guys!

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MSD

Good call. I don't think diesel will vaporize enough to be combustible in that condition.

saltfish

This is why there are additives for diesel that prevent it from gelling at low temperatures.

Diesel engines are also equipped with 'glow plugs' that heat up the top of the combustion chamber to help aid the combustion process. Also, diesel combustion is unlike gas, in that the compression in the cylinders is responsible for the combustion, not a spark; being so, vaporization is not necessary.

-SF

Reese

All I know is that a semi can be a bitch to start at 4am and once you get it started, you'll be lucky it's ready to drive in a half hour.

Also, many trucks have small refridgerators, and/or the cargo is temperature sensitive so the truck HAS to stay running or shit starts to ruin.

I'd say most drivers don't care about the wear on the engine. You can put about a million miles on one of these trucks in less than 10 years, 4-5 hours idling a night isn't doing a whole lot of damage.

It gets pretty hot in a cab during the day, and cold at night. When you're sleeping in the cab every night you need some comfort so...

Is that enough reason to leave the truck running?

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CoachAlan

It definitely is enough reason to keep the truck running. It sure does seem like there'd be a better way though. I think alot of the refrigerated trailers have their own generators to keep the cool. It would be nice if there were some sort of really small generator or really big battery that would work for the cab in the same way.

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BoomTruck

No offense, but you are starting to dig yourself a hole.

Some, not all diesels have glow plugs. They are used to heat the combustion chamber prior to starting, not while running. (and if used with ether to try to start an engine, will blow parts clean off an engine) They are common on pickups and construction equipment, but rarely seen on heavy trucks. If a truck engine has a starting aid, it's usually in the form of an intake heater or an ether injector.

Diesel engines atomize the fuel when they spray it into the combustion chamber. And if diesel gets cold enough, it just plain quits flowing.

And the corporate driver/Owner Operator comparison is not that accurate, either. Most companies have an 'x amount of minutes' idling policy. And I know of several long-haul Owner Operators that only shut down when they are required to.

There are outfits that make auxilliary power units for trucks, but they are pricey.

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orphen

Why? because they conspire to destroy our O-zone and conquer the world with their weather pattern altering ability.. DUM DUM DUM~ i have no idea what i'm talking about

iamnormal

Why should truckers be made to suffer and live a lower quality of life to give you a better quality of life?

neekap

Honestly I think the environment will be just fine until at least our great grandkids are members of society. Beyond that, who really cares? I mean do you really expect to hear your great-great-great grandkids say "gee, I'm glad great-great-great-grandpa Bob made all those truckers turn off their engines so we can breathe!" No. Just like our great-great-great grandparents had no idea that we'd be cruising across the state at 70 mph. Hell, by that time trucks may be flying, or we'll have different fuel sources anyway.

And remember, bovine flatulence (cow farts for us average folk) cause more pollution anyway.