Magnus Effect and baseball - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

soccerchamp76 · 04-22-2004, 06:14 PM

The Magnus effect basically states that, in terms of baseball or with any ball, backspin causes rise and topspin causes drop (curveball).
Now with the question of the sinker, ie the two-seam fastball.
You throw it the same as a four-seam fastball, with does include backspin. So why does the ball sink more than a normal four-seam fastball would? (even with the rise, gravity causes the ball to still sink, albeit, neglible).

Someone help me out here.

Jadey · 04-26-2004, 12:28 AM

Okay, let me give this a shot.

With all pitches the primary differences have to do with the velocity of the ball, and its rotation, and it's flight path. The positioning of the stitches with relation to the motion of the ball is also important - this, after all, is the difference between the two-seam and four-seam fastball.

With any pitch thrown, as the ball flies through the air, it leaves a "wake" behind it as the ball flies through the air. Theoretically, were the ball not spinning, the wake would be roughly symmetrical. Since it does spin, the wake is deflected to one side (the side where the spin is counter to the motion of the air rushing past).

Now, with the four-seamer (your basic fastaball) you have 4 seams rotating and disturbing the air about it during it's flight causing it to rise slightly. As it happens, the force generated by a vertical backspin is counter to gravity, making this the 'rising' fastball.

But with the two-seamer (the sinker), since you do not change the arm angle or release point as with other pitches, the only difference is the number of seams deflecting the surrounding air during it's flight. With only two seams causing air resistence the flight path of the ball differs slightly. With less air resistence the two-seamer is more directly acted upon by the effects of gravity along it's short flight path causing it to sink slightly.

I hope that makes sense.

GM2 · 04-28-2004, 03:22 PM

That's right -- four seams spinning into the wind produce a more pronounced break than only two seams spinning into the wind. A curveball has all 4 seams at the top of the ball spinning into the wind, so it drops (usually the spin is a little skewed to one side, so it moves horizontally too.)

BTW, there is no such thing as a truly "rising" fastball. The pitch by that name just doesn't drop at the same rate as other pitches.

goddfather40 · 04-28-2004, 09:48 PM

One thing that can also dramatically effect the path of the pitch is finger pressure. For example, if a right hander is throwing a 'cut' fastball, he puts more pressure on his index finger to initiate the ball to tail.

04-22-2004, 06:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	Magnus Effect and baseball The Magnus effect basically states that, in terms of baseball or with any ball, backspin causes rise and topspin causes drop (curveball). Now with the question of the sinker, ie the two-seam fastball. You throw it the same as a four-seam fastball, with does include backspin. So why does the ball sink more than a normal four-seam fastball would? (even with the rise, gravity causes the ball to still sink, albeit, neglible). Someone help me out here. __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

04-28-2004, 09:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
goddfather40 Llama Location: Cali-for-nye-a	One thing that can also dramatically effect the path of the pitch is finger pressure. For example, if a right hander is throwing a 'cut' fastball, he puts more pressure on his index finger to initiate the ball to tail. __________________ My name is goddfather40 and I approved this message. I got ho's and I got bitches, In C++ I branch with switches -MC Plus+

04-26-2004, 12:28 AM	#2 (permalink)
Jadey This Space For Rent Location: Davenport, Iowa	Okay, let me give this a shot. With all pitches the primary differences have to do with the velocity of the ball, and its rotation, and it's flight path. The positioning of the stitches with relation to the motion of the ball is also important - this, after all, is the difference between the two-seam and four-seam fastball. With any pitch thrown, as the ball flies through the air, it leaves a "wake" behind it as the ball flies through the air. Theoretically, were the ball not spinning, the wake would be roughly symmetrical. Since it does spin, the wake is deflected to one side (the side where the spin is counter to the motion of the air rushing past). Now, with the four-seamer (your basic fastaball) you have 4 seams rotating and disturbing the air about it during it's flight causing it to rise slightly. As it happens, the force generated by a vertical backspin is counter to gravity, making this the 'rising' fastball. But with the two-seamer (the sinker), since you do not change the arm angle or release point as with other pitches, the only difference is the number of seams deflecting the surrounding air during it's flight. With only two seams causing air resistence the flight path of the ball differs slightly. With less air resistence the two-seamer is more directly acted upon by the effects of gravity along it's short flight path causing it to sink slightly. I hope that makes sense.

04-28-2004, 03:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
GM2 Insane	That's right -- four seams spinning into the wind produce a more pronounced break than only two seams spinning into the wind. A curveball has all 4 seams at the top of the ball spinning into the wind, so it drops (usually the spin is a little skewed to one side, so it moves horizontally too.) BTW, there is no such thing as a truly "rising" fastball. The pitch by that name just doesn't drop at the same rate as other pitches.