Willravel

I was going to comment in the Long gun selection for apocalypse thread, but I really don't have anything of value to contribute to that specific discussion. There are wider questions, though, that I think would be interesting to explore beyond just weaponry for self-defense and hunting.

So let's say that something terrible has happened and civilization as we know it has come to an end. Maybe it's an outbreak of a particularly nasty strain of flu or we run out of oil before something suitable can be found to replace it, but the point is that there are a lot less people around and things like power, transportation, and information have suddenly taken a step back hundreds of years. What have you done or can you do to prepare for this unfortunate possible future?

I know how to do a few things that could help, but I suspect the first thing I'd do simply for the sake of survival would be to find other people who have other skills. I'm really good at growing food (I'll post pics this spring and summer if I find the time), I'm experienced with irrigation and I'm good with drainage. I'm also okay in a fight, if it's truly absolutely necessary. I've never hunted before, though, and I'm not at all experienced with firearms. I'm not experienced in building structures like for long-term housing. I'm okay with first aid and CPR, but I'm certainly not good enough for general emergency care.

I do have one thing, though, that I pride myself on: I've got seeds in my bomb shelter. I've got seeds for everything from tomatoes to pumpkins to green beans. A few years ago, a friend of mine asked me why I kept buying new seeds every year for plants that didn't survive the winter, and I couldn't come up with a good answer, so I started collecting the seeds of the best vegetables and fruits, dried and de-husked, in jars in my bomb shelter. I may not be able to provide meat (llllllllllllllladies), but assuming I could find fertile land and a reliable source of clean water, which is going to be a necessity anyway, I could help to get a permanent settlement started.

How about you?

Plan9

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bagatelle

Very interesting topic.

I live on a small farm and we still have some old stuff in the barns reminding us of the years in agriculture from more than 50 years ago. With regards to farming I feel myself quite useless to be honest without my husband's knowledge.

Since I'm already past 40, I would not be much use in repopulating... but I could take care of kids. I could do chores even if there wasn't electricity or the machines like today. There would just be a lot more physical work to do.

I don't know how to milk cows, but I suppose that could be learned, like taking care of other domestic animals. My first aid skills are poor, but I'm handy otherwise and could manage some sewing or help with building something.

Lots of hard work!

I don't mind dirtying myself or doing physical work, but it would mean a lot of adapting.

Another thing would be, if there was a complete chaos around you and you would have to fight for survival. Even if there would not be competition, the need to cooperate would bring me to a new situation of having to cope within a group and possibly live with a big bunch of people more closely together.

In fact - the best way I could be prepared for this scenario, would be having my husband around. He's very handy and would manage to take care of many problems.

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snowy

My husband and I were talking about our skill sets as they relate to the apocalypse this weekend. He's an Eagle Scout who attended a wildnerness survival school during high school. He can bow drill a fire faster than anyone I've ever met (many people have no idea how to bow drill in the first place, but that's another discussion). Over our years together, he and our old roommate (also an Eagle Scout) have passed on some general survival skills to me, mostly just common sense type stuff that you use when backpacking or backcountry skiing.

My husband is extremely handy (I can perform basic household repairs), knows how to sew (I also know how to sew), and can cook a fine meal just by looking at what's on hand (I can do this too...I just don't like to ). He can cook in any conditions, be it on the stove, over a fire, or on a campstove. We both know how to can, and have the equipment necessary to do so. Right now I'm looking at a shelf and a half full of food we canned last summer, mostly applesauce and tomatoes. Next year I'm planning on expanding my repertoire. We both can garden and grow food.

One skill set I possess that my husband does not is that I have up-to-date First Aid and CPR certifications. My FA is something I'd expect to use in that kind of situation. I've also taught myself to knit, so no matter what, we'll be warm. I am starting to build a yarn stockpile, much to my husband's alarm.

We have a lot of equipment other people (i.e. regular people who don't think about the apocalypse/camping) probably don't have--a small camping stove that operates off of white gas, spare white gas, a crab boiler that operates off of propane, spare propane, multiple first aid kits in multiple locations, and spare 4x4s/antiseptic/antibiotic cream/etc. to restock the FA kits.

And will, I save seeds from the heirloom tomatoes I buy at market every year. I don't want the Green Zebra or the Marmande or the Kate's Favorite to disappear!

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Baraka_Guru

I think what was primarily overlooked in the weapon thread was the food distribution. I understand that in the context of weapons, you will think of protection and hunting, but for the context of this thread, you must realize that as much as a third or more of your diet will need to come from plants.

Lots of talk about seeds here, but depending on the circumstances, they won't always be practical. You need to think of seasons, growing conditions, and yields when it comes to seeds. You also need to consider remaining in one area for a long period of time.

As I mentioned in the other thread, you should account for the possibility of requiring mobility. Depending on the circumstances (geography, tainted land, possessed land, etc.), you might have to keep moving rather than stay put. I think it would be important to have extensive knowledge of botany or herbalism or whatever you want to call it.

It would be invaluable to know what plants are edible, what plants have proven healing properties, or what plants have other uses. In hunter-gatherer diets, the plant-to-animal ratio tends to range from 30:70 to 40:60. And as you probably know, animal food is macro-nutrient dense, and so this means that a lot of gathering will likely need to happen in an apocalyptic situation.

If you ask me, a bulk of the initial labour to stabilize your situation will involve the foraging of plants. Agriculture will come later, if at all.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

Seeds can be traded, BG. They'll arguably be the most valuable thing around, they're small, and they last so long as you keep them cool and dry. Seeds, ammunition, and medicine will probably be the most sought-after of mobile goods.

bagatelle

Getting food would be the most important thing, if other goods were still available. Getting fresh water might be a problem too.

If the people were significantly fewer and there had been no damage to the nature, there would be land enough to produce food, but not all would be willing or capable of doing these tasks.

Canned and other preserved food would last for a while, but people would fight for sharing them, unless it can be controlled. Even though I had the means and possibility to produce food, I would likely have to share it with more people.

Managing depends a lot on your geographical location, we are in almost arctic conditions compared to some areas. Without electricity many houses would become impossible to keep warm. Even though we have wood to burn, the central heating will not work without electricity.

BG says it would take time to get to agriculture. From my viewpoint it's a bit different, since we are already doing it. The question is, with how many people would I have to share it, and would other people possibly come to seek for food - peacefully or not. But even us in the countryside could not survive from day one without cooperation with other people.

We have some hunting equipment also, rabbits running through garden, but it would be a task to catch them or go find a moose in the woods.

Who would take care of the huge amount of domestic animals? Or would they be gone too? There's meat available, but the stock has to be taken care of, that would be one of the first things to do.

I remember once hearing an estimate, that one hectare of farming land would be enough to produce food for an average family of 4 people. Hopefully my memory serves.

If the disaster would be quick, we would still have granaries left, but most of that would likely get wasted, when it couldn't be processed.

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papermachesatan

I'll preface this with the fact that I'm not an expert about gardening or agriculture by any means. I was under the impression that seeds to do not last any significant length of time. A quick search on google suggests that seeds do not necessarily have an expiration date but you do get diminishing returns from them as the seeds age due to decreased germination rates. Source that includes estimated dates on how long the seeds will be useful. This isn't to say that stockpiling seeds is a bad idea though. As long as you cycle out old seed packets with new seed packets, you'll be good to go - just like you would with canned food, etc.

Willravel

I have seeds from as long ago as June in my basement right now that I'll be planting in a month or two that will do just fine. They don't last forever, but they last long enough to be planted again the following year.

papermachesatan

Ah I thought you were referring storing seeds with the intention of using them long term over the course of several years. It's definitely not a bad idea at all to keep a supply on hand as long as you cycle out the old seeds with new packages periodically. Seeds are something that definitely adds worth to your preparations as long as you periodically change out the old seeds for the new.

Baraka_Guru

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

Hands down my favorite of all seed vaults.

ring

papermachesatan

Interesting. They work around seed decay by simply sticking the seeds in a freezer and limiting the seeds exposure to oxygen. Searching around on the internet suggests that most seeds, depending on the type and if properly stored, last 2-5 years. I wonder how many years you could squeeze out of seeds if you stored them in your basement in an airtight container in a deep freezer that you never use?

EDIT: I looked up my above question and the USDA expects the seeds to last "hundreds to thousands of years" at the Svalbard Global Seed Vault so apparently you could buy a bunch of seeds now and have them available indefinitely as long as you stored them in the above method.

mcgeedo

As I said in my apocalypse/guns thread, a lot depends on how extensive you guess the apocalypse to be. If it's temporary, then defense and scrounging play the primary roles. If it's more or less permanent, then you have to consider what to do when things settle somewhat.

A permanent situation, in my loose definition, means a regression of sorts to an earlier era in civilization. Since here's so much hardware around, smelting wouldn't have to be immediately re-invented, so maybe the new era would look like a couple centuries ago. Agriculture would be the key to survival, with animal husbandry a very close second. Support skills to support agriculture, e.g. blacksmithing, gun-making/repair and doctoring (as opposed to medicine) would be tradable skills in lieu of raising crops.

One additional comment on an above post, I don't think you can presume the capability of freezing seeds to preserve them. In my thoughts on the level of technology post-apocalypse, I don't see electricity as being generally available.

Zeraph

Me and some friends have some property 3 hours out of the city that we're going to build a bunker/bomb shelter on. Its 40 acres, has plenty of game, and good soil to plant stuff.

cybersharp

In the short term and the long term... The most valuable ability in my opinion would be a high degree of lethality.

Regardless of the type of apocalypse to happen there will be a lot of desperate people with guns. Eventually survivors would band together in one form or another and take apart smaller groups of people. People with the most resources will have the most to lose.

Realistically though I would say wisest course of action would be having a plan for basic necessities like food and water along with knowledge of how the people around you would react. It is never good to not factor in the actions of people who being desperate could try an ruin any planning you may have undertaken in advance for such a situation.

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urville

I live at a USDA facility. They have seeds in little wood drawers that still grow and they've been there since the 80's - 90's. It's all about the environment you keep them in and what kind of seeds.

More important than seeds now is can you properly harvest them and do so in the right numbers to sustain growth for a year after year operation. That takes planning and a certain knowledge.

Beekeeping could be wise.

Field trained First aid.

I cant reccomend swedish firesteel enough.

We keep blankets, silver blankets, MREs, been trying to get this water cleanser they use in rawanda (amazing stuff), swedish firesteel, lighters, medical supplies and medicine, etc in a couple of old ammo crates in the basement and rotate them out every year. Theres more in there like silicone bowls, etc...

urville