Discreet vs. Discrete - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

essendoubleop · 09-22-2007, 07:47 AM

Discrete--apart or detached from others; separate; distinct: six discrete parts.

Discreet--modestly unobtrusive; unostentatious: a discreet, finely wrought gold necklace.

This really bugs me. Both these words are pronounced the same, yet have opposite meanings. They could be used in the exact same sentence and I'd have no idea which way the person was leaning towards. One basically means distinct, while the other means blending in.

uncle phil · 09-22-2007, 08:16 AM

could it have something to do with the difference in spelling?

essendoubleop · 09-22-2007, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle phil

could it have something to do with the difference in spelling?

Obviously, when people are talking in a conversation they aren't going to spell out the word for you to understand.

Baraka_Guru · 09-22-2007, 08:59 AM

Their meanings, though different, aren't exactly opposite. Also, in most cases, you would know which word was being used by understanding the context of the conversation and the syntax of the phrasing.

I don't think these words are often confused in regular use.

You can be discreet when someone doesn't want you to draw attention, and you can be discrete from the party to do so. It's the same with many other words, such as there, their, and they're and a number of other homonyms. They might be confused when we spell them out, but they're not always mixed up in conversation.

If anything, this can be a problem in written communication. Even then, the erroneous sentence might be viewed with criticism and reinterpreted.

List of commonly confused homonyms

roachboy · 09-22-2007, 09:24 AM

etymology. from the oed.

Quote:

[ME. discret, discrete, a. F. discret, -ète (12th c. in Littré), ‘qui se conduit avec discernement’, ad. L. discrtus, in late L. and Rom. sense: cf. It. and Sp. discreto ‘discreet, wise, wary, considerate, circumspect’ (Florio), ‘discreet, wise to perceiue’ (Minsheu). A doublet of DISCRETE, differentiated in sense and spelling.

In cl. Lat., discrt-us had only the sense ‘separate, distinct’, as pa. pple. of discernre, whence the corresponding mod.F. sense of discret, and Eng. DISCRETE. The late L. sense, which alone came down in popular use in Romanic, seems to have been deduced from the cognate n. discrtin-em, originally the action of separating, distinguishing, or discerning, and then the faculty of discernment; hence the adjective may have taken the sense ‘possessed of discernment’.
In Eng., discrete was the prevalent spelling in all senses until late in the 16th c., when on the analogy of native or early-adopted words in ee from ME. close , as feet, sweet, beet), the spelling discreet (occasional from 1400) became established in the popular sense, leaving discrete for the scholastic and technical sense in which the kinship to L. discrtus is more obvious: see DISCRETE. Shakespeare (1st Folio) has always discreet.]

so the etymology of discrete is discrete:

Quote:

[ad. L. discrt-us ‘separate, distinct’, pa. pple. of discernre to separate, divide, DISCERN: cf. later sense of F. discret, discrète ‘divided, separate’.
In the sense of cl. L. discrtus, discrete was used by Trevisa (translating from L.), but app. was not in general use till late in 16th c. But in another sense, ‘discerning, prudent’ (derived through French), discret, discrete was well-known in popular use from the 14th c.; this, even in late ME., was occasionally spelt discreet, which spelling was appropriated to it about the time that discrete in the L. sense began to be common; so that thenceforth discrete and discreet were differentiated in spelling as well as in meaning: see DISCREET. Before this, while discrete was the prevalent form for the later discreet, it is only rarely (see 1 below) that discreet appears for the present discrete.]

so discreet became discrete from discrete only gradually.
but the meanings are mirror-images of each other--to with-hold is to render oneself separate from a community, divided from it.
socially, being discreet can render you discrete.

ubertuber · 09-22-2007, 09:50 AM

I think I might start using the word discreetion. Except that sounds kinda nasty.

Datalife2 · 09-22-2007, 12:03 PM

pfft... Ya the english language is messed up!

Baraka_Guru · 09-22-2007, 12:54 PM

That's what you get with a bastard language.

essendoubleop · 09-22-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Their meanings, though different, aren't exactly opposite. Also, in most cases, you would know which word was being used by understanding the context of the conversation and the syntax of the phrasing.

I don't think these words are often confused in regular use.

You can be discreet when someone doesn't want you to draw attention, and you can be discrete from the party to do so. It's the same with many other words, such as there, their, and they're and a number of other homonyms. They might be confused when we spell them out, but they're not always mixed up in conversation.

If anything, this can be a problem in written communication. Even then, the erroneous sentence might be viewed with criticism and reinterpreted.

List of commonly confused homonyms

How many homonyms in the English language have near opposite meanings? I'm guessing it's the only one. I just bugs me when I hear one of these words being used in the sentence and it's unclear which way their heading with its intended use.

telekinetic · 09-22-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essendoubleop

How many homonyms in the English language have near opposite meanings? I'm guessing it's the only one.

You guessed wrong, and discreet vs discrete is are so vaguely opposite that they aren't even included in most lists.

There is a whole category of words called contronyms, which means that through some fluke of language, a word is its own opposite.

Here's a (probably incomplete) list from http://www.rinkworks.com/words/contronyms.shtml:

Quote:

anabasis - military advance, military retreat
apology - admission of fault in what you think, say, or do; formal defense of what you think, say, or do
aught - all, nothing
bolt - secure, run away
by - multiplication (e.g., a three by five matrix), division (e.g., dividing eight by four)
chuffed - pleased, annoyed
cleave - separate, adhere
clip - fasten, detach
consult - ask for advice, give advice
copemate - partner, antagonist
custom - usual, special
deceptively smart - smarter than one appears, dumber than one appears
dike - wall, ditch
discursive - proceeding coherently from topic to topic, moving aimlessly from topic to topic
dollop - a large amount, a small amount
dust - add fine particles, remove fine particles
enjoin - prescribe, prohibit
fast - quick, unmoving
first degree - most severe (e.g., murder), least severe (e.g., burn)
fix - restore, castrate
flog - criticize harshly, promote aggressively
garnish - enhance (e.g., food), curtail (e.g., wages)
give out - produce, stop production
grade - incline, level
handicap - advantage, disadvantage
help - assist, prevent (e.g., "I can't help it if...")
left - remaining, departed from
liege - sovereign lord, loyal subject
mean - average, excellent (e.g., "plays a mean game")
off - off, on (e.g., "the alarm went off")
out - visible (e.g., stars), invisible (e.g., lights)
out of - outside, inside (e.g., "work out of one's home")
oversight - error, care
pitted - with the pit in, with the pit removed
put out - extinguish, generate (e.g., something putting out light)
quiddity - essence, trifling point
quite - rather, completely
ravel - tangle, disentangle
rent - buy use of, sell use of
rinky-dink - insignificant, one who frequents RinkWorks
sanction - approve, boycott
sanguine - hopeful, murderous (obsolete synonym for "sanguinary")
screen - show, hide
seed - add seeds (e.g., "to seed a field"), remove seeds (e.g., "to seed a tomato")
skinned - with the skin on, with the skin removed
strike - hit, miss (in baseball)
table - propose (in the United Kingdom), set aside (in the United States)
transparent - invisible, obvious
unbending - rigid, relaxing
variety - one type (e.g., "this variety"), many types (e.g., "a variety")
wear - endure through use, decay through use
weather - withstand, wear away
wind up - end, start up (e.g., a watch)
with - alongside, against

Finding such idiosyncrasies in slang is much easier. The word "bad" can be used as slang to mean "good." The word "bomb" has two slang meanings: "failure" (as usually used in the United States) and "success" (as usually used in the United Kingdom).

Some noteworthy antonyms aren't homographs (words that are spelled the same) but homophones (words that are pronounced the same). Some of these include:
aural, oral - heard, spoken
erupt, irrupt - burst out, burst in
petalless, petalous - lacking petals, having petals
raise, raze - erect, tear down

Sharon · 09-22-2007, 02:49 PM

That list is fascinating!

essendoubleop · 09-22-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic

Finding such idiosyncrasies in slang is much easier. The word "bad" can be used as slang to mean "good." The word "bomb" has two slang meanings: "failure" (as usually used in the United States) and "success" (as usually used in the United Kingdom).

Some noteworthy antonyms aren't homographs (words that are spelled the same) but homophones (words that are pronounced the same). Some of these include:
aural, oral - heard, spoken
erupt, irrupt - burst out, burst in
petalless, petalous - lacking petals, having petals
raise, raze - erect, tear down

These are what I was looking for. I think discrete and discreet belong here. It just bugs me so much because I've heard it used three times in sentences recently and its use was flipped back and forth each time.

09-22-2007, 07:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
essendoubleop Psycho	Discreet vs. Discrete Discrete--apart or detached from others; separate; distinct: six discrete parts. Discreet--modestly unobtrusive; unostentatious: a discreet, finely wrought gold necklace. This really bugs me. Both these words are pronounced the same, yet have opposite meanings. They could be used in the exact same sentence and I'd have no idea which way the person was leaning towards. One basically means distinct, while the other means blending in.

09-22-2007, 08:16 AM	#2 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	could it have something to do with the difference in spelling? __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

09-22-2007, 08:59 AM	#4 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Their meanings, though different, aren't exactly opposite. Also, in most cases, you would know which word was being used by understanding the context of the conversation and the syntax of the phrasing. I don't think these words are often confused in regular use. You can be discreet when someone doesn't want you to draw attention, and you can be discrete from the party to do so. It's the same with many other words, such as there, their, and they're and a number of other homonyms. They might be confused when we spell them out, but they're not always mixed up in conversation. If anything, this can be a problem in written communication. Even then, the erroneous sentence might be viewed with criticism and reinterpreted. List of commonly confused homonyms __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 09-22-2007 at 09:02 AM..

09-22-2007, 09:50 AM	#6 (permalink)
ubertuber spudly Location: Ellay	I think I might start using the word discreetion. Except that sounds kinda nasty. __________________ Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

09-22-2007, 12:03 PM	#7 (permalink)
Datalife2 Insane	pfft... Ya the english language is messed up! __________________ where's my lighter?

09-22-2007, 12:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	That's what you get with a bastard language. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

09-22-2007, 02:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sharon Coy, sultry and... naughty! Location: Across the way	That list is fascinating!