Laying wood flooring - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

DEI37 · 08-12-2007, 01:11 PM

I am considering taking up the flooring in the living room and dining room to get rid of the carpet, and put down some wood flooring. I can find the tongue & groove stuff easy enough, and I think it would be easy to do. I'm trying to just get an idea of what it is gonna take to get it done.

What do you use for underlayment? Just standard stuff? The real issue is going to be in the living room, where it used to be a garage. I NEED to get another couple of ventilation outlets in here, and the duct work would HAVE to be run under the floor. I'm gonna run some cabling under the floor, for the network, and some of the audio stuff, too.

What I'm guessing to do is get several 2x4's, with the 2" side on the floor, and put the underlayment on top of that, and go from there. How does the flooring get secured to the underlayment...glue? I'm hoping then, too, that I can get some of the ventilation ducting under there, too, then.

I do not know what is under the floor right now. I've not pulled it up, nor tried to. I know there'll be some work involved, but I'm hoping to do it myself.

Thanks.

DaveOrion · 08-12-2007, 03:07 PM

First find out whats under your current flooring, wood or concrete, how level is it??? To have a good looking job with hard wood there should be no more than 1/4 inch variance in 4 feet, that rarely happens unless your home was built with engineered floor joists. If your wood floor is made of 3/4 inch plywood, you dont need underlayment for hardwood. Just fill in the low spots, usually between the joists, with self-leveling filler available at most home stores. You can glue or nail hardwood thats between 1/4 & 3/8"(prefinished) but the 3/4" unfinished variety has to be nailed. I recommend the prefinished type, no sanding or finishing needed. Just remember the finished floor is only as good as what you go over, so check for squeaks first, get the subfloor as level as possible, and make sure its solid. Go over the plywood with wood screws, on the joists of course, they wont back out over time.

In your garage you have the right idea, but you may want to stand the 2x4's upright if you plan on running ductwork in there. Fill the voids between the 2x4's with styrofoam insulation, and you'll have a warm cozy floor. Liquid nail and screw 3/4" plywood to the 2x4's, then install your hard wood. Good Luck, you might want to call a pro, this is not something for the average do it yourselfer, but if you have some construction skills and common sense its possible.

DEI37 · 08-12-2007, 04:45 PM

Yeah, that's what I'd meant with the 2x4 thing. I hope I can get ductwork in there. I have common sense, but very little construction knowledge/skill. My ex-wifes dad is a contractor, though. Might be able to draw on his knowledge to do it.

I'm trying to figure out what finish I want, too. I'd definitely like something lighter. I found this and think I like it. I'm most concerned with getting the living room done. I will insulate the open areas that don't have ventilation ductwork in them to help. I have to assume that it is concrete underneath.

kazoo · 08-12-2007, 08:31 PM

You're turning a garage into what the building codes refer to as "habitable space". Products, methods, and much more are determined by the applicable building code in your locale.

If I were the contractor you'd called about this project, my first stop would be the local Building Official's office to see what ordinances govern.

DEI37 · 08-13-2007, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazoo

You're turning a garage into what the building codes refer to as "habitable space". Products, methods, and much more are determined by the applicable building code in your locale.

If I were the contractor you'd called about this project, my first stop would be the local Building Official's office to see what ordinances govern.

I should be more clear about the garage thing...it USED to be one. It had already been converted in to a living room when we bought the house. It is currently a living room already.

DaveOrion · 08-13-2007, 09:54 AM

I tried the link to the hardwood you liked but only got an error message. I guess thats prefinished hardwood, a good choice. You'll never get a finish on sand and finish hardwood, like the prefinished in the factory type. I see now you did say you were going to stand the 2x4's upright, often they are laid flat over concrete(called sleepers) to follow the contour of the concrete easier. Dont forget to use pressure treated wood if it contacts concrete. You can always use 2x6's if the 2x4's dont give enough clearance for the ductwork. You can also build the floor in sections, like you'd build a wall, then check for gaps where they meet the concrete. Liquid nail shims where needed. You may not get the floor perfectly level, just get it as 'true' as possible. Just pull a string line across the top of the 2x4's in several places and adjust as needed. Once again, Good Luck!

DEI37 · 08-13-2007, 10:20 AM

Yup...I know I'll need to get a level, too. I don't have one of those yet. It'll be a little bit before I do this. I am trying to get a feel for it. I did find 3" ducting to put under the underlayment, so in theory, a 2x4 should be alright. Just need to find a vent/register to hook up to it somehow.

I would imagine that laying a 2x4 narrow side down will offer more rigidity to it, since it won't flex as easy. How would you secure the 2x4's to the floor/concrete though? Would they be alright just laying there, or should they get tacked down somehow?

EDIT: That link just worked for me...go figure. If you go in to the flooring/hardwood/prefinished, the model number is PF6071 for the stuff I found.

DaveOrion · 08-13-2007, 11:08 AM

Liquid nail the 2x4's down, I use that stuff alot and it works great! If you've ever bonded 2 pieces of wood together with it, then tried to get them apart, you'll destroy the wood before you ever break the bond. You can bond just about anything to anything with liquid nails. They make several varieties for different uses. I've been a flooring and remodeling contractor for 20 years and have probably put down untold miles of it, no exaggeration. Just make double sure whatever you're bonding is in the correct position before you use it, cause its gonna be there for a long time.

BTW, I was a huge Earnhardt fan, well I still am, I just go for Jr. now instead. I cant believe the bad luck he's had this year! 5 DNF's (I think), WTF???

DEI37 · 08-13-2007, 12:04 PM

OK...I'll keep that in mind...liquid nails. Heard of it...never used it. Thanks.

Yeah, five DNF's. Can't wait for him to head to HMS next year.

DaveOrion · 08-13-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEI37

OK...I'll keep that in mind...liquid nails. Heard of it...never used it. Thanks.

Yeah, five DNF's. Can't wait for him to head to HMS next year.

Yea, I heard that. I think his stepmom is being a real bitch about that whole situation. I just hope that Bud continues to sponser him. That #8 car with the Bud Logos is a Nascar Icon!

DEI37 · 08-22-2007, 07:05 AM

Got another question on this. I noticed at Menard's, that they have laminate flooring. It's like a quarter of the cost, and looks fine by me. I can find the color and pattern I want, and everything. I imagine the application is the same, or similiar. It has the underlayment on it already, if I remember right, too. You'd still glue that down, though...right?

What kind of stuff would you use for flooring?

DaveOrion · 08-22-2007, 11:18 AM

Laminate comes in several types, some you glue the tongue & groove together, but it floats on the sub-floor. You install a foam mat, that gives a little cushion to the laminate & helps prevent noise, and install the laminate over that. The newer kind simply locks together, no glue needed, but still floats on the pad.

I'm not a great fan of laminates, for several reasons. IMO, they dont look like real wood, they tend to scratch easily, and you still need a very level or true floor on which to install it. The manufacturers are getting better with the look of laminates, not all look like wood. The ones that simulate ceramic tile look more realistic to me. These are just laminates, just like a laminated kitchen counter top, so if you dont put those little felt pads on all your furniture legs, you'll end up scratching the crap out of it, and its not so easily repaired, like real wood. Lastly your floor must be within a 1/4" of level in 4 feet. If you dont level the floor out, you may get the trampoline effect, when you run the laminate over a dip in the floor. Its not directly attached to the floor, so when you walk on it you'll feel the dip, then the laminate bounces back, so to say. Once Again, Good Luck!

noodle · 08-22-2007, 11:42 AM

Lowe's has awesome Pergo's that look real. Ours look like actual cherry or something along that line. It's based on Malaysian Kempas. The underlayment was attached, and we just had to lay the plastic vapor barrier on top of the jibcrete. Which, by the way, is the stupidest word ever... "jibcrete". Ugh! The first row took almost 16 hours because we (Ha... "HE") had to do a doorjamb, hallway, and stairwell transition within five feet of the first wall. AFter that, until the last row, it only took us 12 hours (both of us) to do a 12.5' x 26' room. I laid 300 square feet by myself while he cut the boards for the ends. All in all, it was pretty dang easy and the underlayment that is attatched is really quiet. i just wouldn't recommend the skinny (3 5/8" ? ) boards as it took 33 boxes of Pergo. We did the whole thing including buying a saw, transition pieces and the quarter-round to finish the room for around $1200. And we got the expensive Pergo. LOVE it. I've dragged stuff across it that scratched the tile in the kitchen, but not the laminate. Yes, it was an accident. No, I didn't know it was scratching, and yes, I was in big trouble, buster.

DaveOrion · 08-22-2007, 11:56 AM

Just wondering fredweena, was this installed in a basement, below grade???

noodle · 08-22-2007, 01:28 PM

Nope.

But my aunt used almost the same stuff in SC in her basement. They had to do some leveling of the existing floor (I'm not sure how they did it, actually, with something they poured out I think) and then used the same technique with a slightly thicker/different vapor shield for insulation (the blue-green stuff) and the same line laminate product, though with 5" planks, with the attached underlayment.

DaveOrion · 08-22-2007, 03:12 PM

Laminate is not recommended for basements that are below the grade of the outside ground. I've seen this cause problems, even though a vapor barrier was used. Laminate & wood will absorb moisture from the slab although a barrier is there. The only way I've seen it work well, is to vapor barrier, then lay down 2x4 sleepers, fill the voids with styrofoam insulation, deck with 3/4" plywood and then lay your flooring. Just my 3 1/2 cents.

08-12-2007, 01:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Laying wood flooring I am considering taking up the flooring in the living room and dining room to get rid of the carpet, and put down some wood flooring. I can find the tongue & groove stuff easy enough, and I think it would be easy to do. I'm trying to just get an idea of what it is gonna take to get it done. What do you use for underlayment? Just standard stuff? The real issue is going to be in the living room, where it used to be a garage. I NEED to get another couple of ventilation outlets in here, and the duct work would HAVE to be run under the floor. I'm gonna run some cabling under the floor, for the network, and some of the audio stuff, too. What I'm guessing to do is get several 2x4's, with the 2" side on the floor, and put the underlayment on top of that, and go from there. How does the flooring get secured to the underlayment...glue? I'm hoping then, too, that I can get some of the ventilation ducting under there, too, then. I do not know what is under the floor right now. I've not pulled it up, nor tried to. I know there'll be some work involved, but I'm hoping to do it myself. Thanks. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-12-2007, 03:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	First find out whats under your current flooring, wood or concrete, how level is it??? To have a good looking job with hard wood there should be no more than 1/4 inch variance in 4 feet, that rarely happens unless your home was built with engineered floor joists. If your wood floor is made of 3/4 inch plywood, you dont need underlayment for hardwood. Just fill in the low spots, usually between the joists, with self-leveling filler available at most home stores. You can glue or nail hardwood thats between 1/4 & 3/8"(prefinished) but the 3/4" unfinished variety has to be nailed. I recommend the prefinished type, no sanding or finishing needed. Just remember the finished floor is only as good as what you go over, so check for squeaks first, get the subfloor as level as possible, and make sure its solid. Go over the plywood with wood screws, on the joists of course, they wont back out over time. In your garage you have the right idea, but you may want to stand the 2x4's upright if you plan on running ductwork in there. Fill the voids between the 2x4's with styrofoam insulation, and you'll have a warm cozy floor. Liquid nail and screw 3/4" plywood to the 2x4's, then install your hard wood. Good Luck, you might want to call a pro, this is not something for the average do it yourselfer, but if you have some construction skills and common sense its possible. __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

08-12-2007, 04:45 PM	#3 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Yeah, that's what I'd meant with the 2x4 thing. I hope I can get ductwork in there. I have common sense, but very little construction knowledge/skill. My ex-wifes dad is a contractor, though. Might be able to draw on his knowledge to do it. I'm trying to figure out what finish I want, too. I'd definitely like something lighter. I found this and think I like it. I'm most concerned with getting the living room done. I will insulate the open areas that don't have ventilation ductwork in them to help. I have to assume that it is concrete underneath. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-12-2007, 08:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
kazoo Psycho Location: Where the night things are	You're turning a garage into what the building codes refer to as "habitable space". Products, methods, and much more are determined by the applicable building code in your locale. If I were the contractor you'd called about this project, my first stop would be the local Building Official's office to see what ordinances govern. __________________ There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of mendacity -Big Daddy

08-13-2007, 09:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	I tried the link to the hardwood you liked but only got an error message. I guess thats prefinished hardwood, a good choice. You'll never get a finish on sand and finish hardwood, like the prefinished in the factory type. I see now you did say you were going to stand the 2x4's upright, often they are laid flat over concrete(called sleepers) to follow the contour of the concrete easier. Dont forget to use pressure treated wood if it contacts concrete. You can always use 2x6's if the 2x4's dont give enough clearance for the ductwork. You can also build the floor in sections, like you'd build a wall, then check for gaps where they meet the concrete. Liquid nail shims where needed. You may not get the floor perfectly level, just get it as 'true' as possible. Just pull a string line across the top of the 2x4's in several places and adjust as needed. Once again, Good Luck! __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

08-13-2007, 10:20 AM	#7 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Yup...I know I'll need to get a level, too. I don't have one of those yet. It'll be a little bit before I do this. I am trying to get a feel for it. I did find 3" ducting to put under the underlayment, so in theory, a 2x4 should be alright. Just need to find a vent/register to hook up to it somehow. I would imagine that laying a 2x4 narrow side down will offer more rigidity to it, since it won't flex as easy. How would you secure the 2x4's to the floor/concrete though? Would they be alright just laying there, or should they get tacked down somehow? EDIT: That link just worked for me...go figure. If you go in to the flooring/hardwood/prefinished, the model number is PF6071 for the stuff I found. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised. Last edited by DEI37; 08-13-2007 at 10:25 AM..

08-13-2007, 11:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	Liquid nail the 2x4's down, I use that stuff alot and it works great! If you've ever bonded 2 pieces of wood together with it, then tried to get them apart, you'll destroy the wood before you ever break the bond. You can bond just about anything to anything with liquid nails. They make several varieties for different uses. I've been a flooring and remodeling contractor for 20 years and have probably put down untold miles of it, no exaggeration. Just make double sure whatever you're bonding is in the correct position before you use it, cause its gonna be there for a long time. BTW, I was a huge Earnhardt fan, well I still am, I just go for Jr. now instead. I cant believe the bad luck he's had this year! 5 DNF's (I think), WTF??? __________________ *Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer... Last edited by DaveOrion; 08-13-2007 at 11:11 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost*

08-13-2007, 12:04 PM	#9 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	OK...I'll keep that in mind...liquid nails. Heard of it...never used it. Thanks. Yeah, five DNF's. Can't wait for him to head to HMS next year. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-22-2007, 07:05 AM	#11 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Got another question on this. I noticed at Menard's, that they have laminate flooring. It's like a quarter of the cost, and looks fine by me. I can find the color and pattern I want, and everything. I imagine the application is the same, or similiar. It has the underlayment on it already, if I remember right, too. You'd still glue that down, though...right? What kind of stuff would you use for flooring? __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-22-2007, 11:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	Laminate comes in several types, some you glue the tongue & groove together, but it floats on the sub-floor. You install a foam mat, that gives a little cushion to the laminate & helps prevent noise, and install the laminate over that. The newer kind simply locks together, no glue needed, but still floats on the pad. I'm not a great fan of laminates, for several reasons. IMO, they dont look like real wood, they tend to scratch easily, and you still need a very level or true floor on which to install it. The manufacturers are getting better with the look of laminates, not all look like wood. The ones that simulate ceramic tile look more realistic to me. These are just laminates, just like a laminated kitchen counter top, so if you dont put those little felt pads on all your furniture legs, you'll end up scratching the crap out of it, and its not so easily repaired, like real wood. Lastly your floor must be within a 1/4" of level in 4 feet. If you dont level the floor out, you may get the trampoline effect, when you run the laminate over a dip in the floor. Its not directly attached to the floor, so when you walk on it you'll feel the dip, then the laminate bounces back, so to say. Once Again, Good Luck! __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

08-22-2007, 11:56 AM	#14 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	Just wondering fredweena, was this installed in a basement, below grade??? __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

08-22-2007, 03:12 PM	#16 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	Laminate is not recommended for basements that are below the grade of the outside ground. I've seen this cause problems, even though a vapor barrier was used. Laminate & wood will absorb moisture from the slab although a barrier is there. The only way I've seen it work well, is to vapor barrier, then lay down 2x4 sleepers, fill the voids with styrofoam insulation, deck with 3/4" plywood and then lay your flooring. Just my 3 1/2 cents. __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...