Church

Hey everyone,

Hopefully there are some fish experts here. This is my second goldfish death in the past 2 weeks. All the rest of my goldfish are alright, but they are different breeds. I tried taking a picture of it to show you what I'm talking about. The fish used to be ALL orange. The tail discolouration I just noticed today. Whats happening here?


(Just in case the image didn't work, heres a direct link: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4znfkhl )

Thanks!

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shakran

you might have high ammonia in the tank, low pH in the water, or your fish might have flukes or ick. Check the water first.

Hain

I know nothing about fish but I recall most of my chemistry.

Do you live in a city? How are you purifying your water?

Cities often have chlorine and fluorine in their water supplies, which can be removed if you let the water sit for half a day in the sun. Other cities, like Milwaukee, actually put calcium hydroxide, Ca(OH)2, in the water to make it basic to prevent the decay of the unknown amount of lead pipes under the city. Ca(OH)2, being the active ingredient in most antacids, is safe for humans to ingest, however really bad for plants and most likely fish.

Recall that goldfish are freshwater fish, and that water softeners use salt to replace heavier metal ions, like calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg), with sodium (Na) since that is easier on pots, pans, pipes, and hands, but less friendly to your Goldie.

I agree with checking your pH.

I recommend you search Google on tips to care for your goldfish, since you know more than us on the specifics of your home and current methods of care for the goldfish.

Church

I have tried that looking for things on the net, but it only seems to be affecting one breed of the fish in the aquarium. I'm sorry, I'm very dumb when it comes to chemistry, how do I check a pH balace? Is there a kit I can buy?

Thanks again for your help everyone!

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MageB420666

There are kits you can buy, your local pet store should have them. Even Walmart carries them.

This site has a bit of info on you the fancy tail goldfish you have in your picture.
Here.

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stevie667

Hey there, how exactly have the fish looked when they died, was the entire body gold including the fin, which has decoloured? Are there any other physical changes in the fish? Have you added anything new recently?

When did you last do a water change, how big is the tank, how many fish, what filters and foods do you use?

I do have a fair amount of knowledge, so lets see if we can figure out whats happening.


Do you have a good fish shop near you? A test kit that will measure ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH is what you need.

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Church

I do have a good fish shop near, I'll go check that out. The tank I believe is a 20 gallon and I've put no more than 5 fish in there. I use Hagan filters and inserts. I just got some food from the dollar store, I heard that didn't really matter a whole lot. As for the water change, the guy at Walmart told me that fish tanks are a self sustaining bio-system. I'm relatively new to all this but he explained as long as you keep your water clean using the filters and fill up the aquarium periodically when the water starts evaporating it should be fine. I sense you're going to call the bullshit card on this one lol.

When the fish died it was discoloured as in the photo. Its kind of hard to see but one of the sidefins was also black. To be honest and I feel horrible about this, the fish wasn't dead. I came home, he was on his side, not visibly breathing, not swimming etc. He didn't even flop around or move in the net but when i put him in the toilet he swam down the pipe!! Grr...

Anyways, thanks for your knowledge. I may have screwed up this one but at least you can help me from doing in the future!

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actinic

Sorry to hear about the loss .

It sounds to me that you may have an environmental/water issue. I recommend that you go to a knowledgeable and reputable LFS (local fish store) for information and guidance to find out what's going on. If they try to sell you anything but a book and test kits...walk away!!!

Test kits to buy...if you feel inclined to go deeper in this hobby:
pH, kH, NH3, NO2, NO3 and GH
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals make a good bang for the $$$ test kits. Otherwise a good LFS will test the water for you for a nominal fee.

The next part is interpreting the tests. Post the results for the aquarium and tap/source water and go from there.

"...the guy at Walmart told me that fish tanks are a self sustaining bio-system"

Unfortunately, he's way off the mark on that point in your case. One cannot create a self sustaining system in a 20gal. Guppies yes, goldfish definitely not.

In a nutshell, filters are primarily a place for bacteria to convert fish waste (ammonia), which is toxic to a relatively non-toxic form (nitrate). Without doing partial water changes w/a gravel vacuuming device of 25%, nitrate will build up and any new fish added will not be happy. The present fish will be used to it as the levels have increased slowly.

Just adding water to compensate for evaporation w/o physically removing water is another area of problems down the road. Only water molecules leave the aquarium and the "salt"/dissolved minerals stays behind. When you add tap water, it also adds minerals that's already present, so longterm with this practice you will have a high mineral build up. Technically you should be using distilled (316 stainless steel/titanium condenser) or reverse osmosis (RO) water to top up.

There are quite a few other things to look into as well but I think you have enough info to digest .

HTH

stevie667

Technically fish tanks are a self sustaining system, its just that some are more self sustaining than others. One needs to change some of the water every couple of weeks (take out say 25%, then replace it with water that has had dechlorinater added to it to remove the chlorine. You wash the sponges inside the filter in the old water to get rid of the gunge that accumulates, but only in old water, or you will kill all the nice bacteria living in it). Rain water is good to top up a fish tank, i take mine out my waterbutt.

Personally i believe fish food matters alot. The problem with fish is that they are considered part of the proverbial furniture, joe public doesn't have a high perception of them, so there is a large mythos surrounding what one can do with them. Would you feed a dog anything but the best food you could buy it? Thats the philosphy i take.

Definatly check out your local shop, go during the week and have a chat with someone there, you'll often be suprised how much you can gleam from a face to face chat!

Everyone has fish die on them, i can't remember how many i've lost, its unfortunatly a part of the learning curve for most of us. The fact your taking active steps to not do it again is excellent!

It sounds like the fish has suffered some sort of water problem, so change some of the water and come back to us in a week and tell us how things are going! Get the guys at the fish store to go over everything again, just to make sure you've got the right ideas (apparently i havn't been making myself completly 100% super duper crystal clear these last few days according to the mrs ).

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actinic

I have to disagree with you stevie on the self sustaining aspect but that's another topic of debate which doesn't have bearing dealing w/Church's problem. Great to see another fish geek here .

Stevie raises some excellent points.

Food: As stevie mentioned, food choice is the second most important factor, environment being the first. Excellent brands are NLS (New Life Spectrum) and Dianichi. They use whole ingredients and very little "meal"/filler
in their ingredients. Less filler, less waste. Hikari and Legend are other very good brands to use.

In dealing w/staff in the LFS, find someone, as stevie mentioned, that will take the time in guiding you and give a few tips and pointers. Once you develop that relationship, bringing coffee/donuts, what ever he/she likes to snack on is a wonderful gesture as, at least here in Canada, working at the LFS isn't a great paying job. Aside from the monotony of scrubbing tanks all day and getting worked up after dealing with an unruly customer, a smiling face offering coffee just makes makes it all a distant memory.

Working at various LFSs while going through HS and university, I speak from personal experience. Personally I do the same while getting my fish and coral fix...LMAO!

HTH and keep us all posted .

stevie667

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