I'm being billed for something I didn't order. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

guthmund · 07-23-2006, 08:54 PM

Hello all, I should say, I have absolutely no idea where to put this..

I think the title is pretty self-explanatory, so let me slip right to the backstory.

I work in a library and occasionally I get phone calls from telemarketers. Sometimes they ask for a specific person and sometimes it's a nice 'please hold for the next available representative...' message. According to policy (yea! working for the state! yea!) I'm not to "engage" the telemarketer, which is fine because I don't really want to hear what they have to say anyway.

About a month ago I got a phone call from Sue (I can't remember her name...) who told me that I qualified for a discount on my order. "My order?" I ask. She goes on to say that according to her file, a representative called me a week previous and I agreed to buy into their little deal--to buy a shitload of magazine subscriptions totalling up to like $500 at $20 a month until...I don't know, I guess death. She verifies my name, but has the wrong address, which I didn't bother to correct. She also has no billing information on me. I told her I didn't order anything and that this is business phone in a semi-public place. I tell her a number of others man this particular phone during the day and that, truth be told, we're not even supposed to be talking to telemarkters anyway. I insist that she cancel my order and tell her that she shouldn't call again. She apologizes, says she'll see what she can do and tells me to have a nice day. I get a thing in the mail from them a few days later--all generic 'check this out' shit. I think nothing of it.

A week ago, I get a call from Ann (this is her real name) who wants to get together with me about setting up arrangements for payment.
Payment? Yes, she says, payment.
I go through the story again. Business phone, semi-public area, I talked to a representative about this already and cancelled, I dinta order any mag' zines, cap'n...all that jazz.

Ann isn't impressed. Ann says I can't back out now. I've made a verbal committment. The magazines are already on their way, the die is cast. I tell her that's too bad. I didn't place the order. Roll again. The company has a 'no cancellation policy' she tells me; I tell her I don't really care and that I have "don't pay for what I don't order" policy.

I've now been on the phone for like..10 minutes and people are starting to stare. Finally, she gives up, gives me her number and tells me she'll expect my call by 3 o'clock to 'sort this mess out.' I implore her to not hold her breath waiting for my call.

So... I got a bill from them today. The address is still wrong and the only personal information on it is my name--no credit card, debit card, phone number...nothing like that. There's a website on the back of the envelope, but I can't get it to come up. Magsubs.com, if you're interested.

Kind of a long story just to ask...

Is there anything I should be doing right now or should I just wait and see if it shows up on my credit report?
My credit is kind of iffy already, so, I'm not worried about it being there other than...you know, it's a debt that I don't really owe.
Is there someone to call about this? A website to complain to or something?

Thanks in advance.

filtherton · 07-23-2006, 09:07 PM

It sounds to me like they're just trying to shake you down. If you didn't make an agreement with them then there's no way they can prove that you did and they have to know this. I'd tell them to fuck off and that if they don't you'll pursue some sort of legal/bbb action.

pig · 07-24-2006, 04:53 AM

yep, me agrees with filterton - you certainly don't owe them crap - i assume that they sent the bill to work? i'm not sure they can file anything against your official credit report without some real data on your aside from your name. Real address, banking information, etc. You might be able to contact the Better Business Bureau in your area to ask them how to proceed legally, etc - but my guess is that it will just blow over.

The_Jazz · 07-24-2006, 05:03 AM

At my first job out of college, we had a somewhat similar scam that someone tried to run on us. Someone called about the "order" for toner for the copier (we had a contract that included toner from the place we leased it from). The receptionist tried to tell him we didn't order it, but he insisted that we did, even though he didn't have a name or even the right billing address for us. They tried to deliver it, even though it was the wrong type and had gotten wet (hmmm) and told us they couldn't put it back on the truck. My boss ended up calling the cops to make them go away, which they did.

Guthmund, unless something shows up, you don't owe them anything. Even if something shows up, I still don't think you owe them anything. The onus is on them to produce the records proving that you did in fact place the order. I would tell "Ann" that you are contacting the police for harrassing you if she doesn't stop when she next calls. You can also take the bull by the horns and contact them directly using the bill that you received and ask for the proof that you did place the order including the date, time and whatever else you think is relevant. You might want to let the credit bureaus know that you think that a fraudulent charge is being made and give them the name of the company doing this.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Bill O'Rights · 07-24-2006, 05:07 AM

Scam.
Assuming that you've kept detailed notes of all contact with these fleecers, turn it over to your state Attorney General's office.
The local news channels also like to get involved in these type of scams. They especially like it when the scammers are targeting the elderly, or the disabled.

In the meantime, just keep doing what you're doing. Give them absolutely no information. And it wouldn't be over cautious at all to be checking your credit reports.

Redlemon · 07-24-2006, 06:47 AM

I just typed that URL into the Better Business Bureau, and they say

Quote:

The Bureau processed a total of 201 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 201 complaints closed in 36 months, 141 were closed in the last year.

Definite weasels. I'm sure there's a way to fight them.

Hmm, further searching gets me to Rip-off Report.com - badbusinessbureau.com, with 18 citiations. This particular report indicates that they had success after contacting their local AG.

ratbastid · 07-24-2006, 07:33 AM

If they don't have your social security number, they can't attached your "nonpayment" to your credit report. Given that, the risk involved with just ignoring them is very small.

It's amazing to me that a company would behave this way. They must intimidate enough "customers" into paying their "bills" to make it profitable.

guthmund · 07-24-2006, 12:22 PM

Thanks, all.

I've filed a complaint with both the Consumer Protection Division of the state AG's office and the Better Business Bureau. I've also sent an email to the head of the VegasBBB, which, as I understand it, will be handling the complaint.

I'm going to use the number on the bill to call and get the particulars of my account as suggested, but I guess after that all I can do is hang around and see if this thing pops up on my credit report, right?

Thanks again for all the replies. I didn't believe they could really do anything, but it's nice hear someone else say it. And thanks for the links, Redlemon. I've been typing in names all morning. There's a whole lot of scumbags out there, eh?

pig · 07-24-2006, 01:06 PM

gothmund,

if i were you, i wouldn't contact them or give them any additional anything. if they call, i'd hang up. let the ag / bbb handle it, and ask them to keep you apprised. the less contact you have with these people, the weaker their potential case could be. if they called again, i might tell them i've reported them to the authorities, and then i'd hang up. if they are duplicitous enough to start this scam in the first place, i doubt that they'll do anything if you call them. one letter from an attourney or the ag, and they'll probably stfu.

MontanaXVI · 07-24-2006, 01:12 PM

also and this might be a long shot, you work for the state is there some sort of legal representation you have access to?

With me being in the Teamsters, and the UFCW before that I had access to some legal help if the need ever arose. Look into it, just in case you do have to take any legal action against the company.

level five · 07-24-2006, 03:14 PM

if you receive something you didn't order, you legally don't have to pay for it. what's more, you can keep it! imagine that.

these people only have your name. they have no proof you ordered anything. i'd laugh them out of the house. you've already spent far too much time on a non-isse. go on about your life and don't worry about it. oh, and i'd let your supervisor know since they called you on a government telephone.

guthmund · 07-24-2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontanaXVI

also and this might be a long shot, you work for the state is there some sort of legal representation you have access to?

With me being in the Teamsters, and the UFCW before that I had access to some legal help if the need ever arose. Look into it, just in case you do have to take any legal action against the company.

I didn't even think of that. I'm pretty low on the totem pole and I've never heard anyone mention anything like that, but it's worth checking into.

Quote:

Originally Posted by level five

these people only have your name. they have no proof you ordered anything. i'd laugh them out of the house. you've already spent far too much time on a non-isse. go on about your life and don't worry about it. oh, and i'd let your supervisor know since they called you on a government telephone.

Good idea. We're in between directors right now, but I'm going to let the interim director know whenever I get a chance.

Like I said, I'm not too worried about it and other than letting my immediate supervisor know, I don't think I'm going to do much else lest they pursue it on their end.

Thanks again for the advice.

NotAnAlias · 07-24-2006, 08:15 PM

Hey, if the magazines have been sent, acording to "ann" and you haven't paid for them, you've got a truckload of free crappy magazines! :P

What scumbags.

magictoy · 07-25-2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigglet

gothmund,

if i were you, i wouldn't contact them or give them any additional anything. if they call, i'd hang up. let the ag / bbb handle it, and ask them to keep you apprised. the less contact you have with these people, the weaker their potential case could be. if they called again, i might tell them i've reported them to the authorities, and then i'd hang up. if they are duplicitous enough to start this scam in the first place, i doubt that they'll do anything if you call them. one letter from an attourney or the ag, and they'll probably stfu.

Don't expect miracles. The AG won't get involved unless the numbers are large, and the BBB has no teeth. They can give the company a bad report, but since that's already the case, nothing has changed.

I believe federal law says that you don't have to return unsolicited merchandise. Of course, magazines have no value once they're not current, anyway.

I wouldn't worry about a thing, unless your name is Dweezil Xavier Throckmorton, or something else highly distinctive. Even a slightly common name, with no address or social, shouldn't be enough to enable them to mess with your credit.

Side note: It's mildly disturbing to hear that your credit is "iffy." It implies that there's someone out there you decided not to pay.

guthmund · 07-25-2006, 01:08 PM

My name just happens to be Dweezil Xavier Throckmorton....

Quote:

Originally Posted by magictoy

Side note: It's mildly disturbing to hear that your credit is "iffy." It implies that there's someone out there you decided not to pay.

Well, let me put your mildly disturbed mind to rest. I had quite a few credit cards when I was younger. I didn't really give a shit about paying them back and consequently they haunted my credit report for a time. I've cleared the debt, but it took a while and my credit mojo (or whatever you want to call it) suffered. I've had several people comment on it, including my employer after they ran a rudimentary background check.

I hope that lets you sleep easier.

SirLance · 07-25-2006, 04:41 PM

1. Write a letter disputing the bill. Give no personal information they don't already have. Advise that you won't pay it, and order them to not contact you again. IMPORTANT: SEND IT CERTIFIED. KEEP A COPY.

2. Keep all materials relating to this matter. Write down to the best of your recollection, the nature of all phone calls, parties spoken to, names, dates, what was discussed, etc.

If you EVER hear from these people again, contact a consumer law attorney in your area. Most will do a free initial consult. Find out what your rights are, and if you can sue with hope of recovery, ask them to take it on a contingency fee basis.

filtherton · 07-25-2006, 06:04 PM

I think that the next time you speak with them you should suddenly "remember" your agreement with them, you should also "remember" some outrageous product or service that they agreed to give you in addition to the magazines, like a car, or a year's supply of shiatsu massages.

guthmund · 08-29-2006, 06:36 AM

UPDATE:

I thought I'd let you guys know how it turned out.

So, I reported them to the Vegas chapter (?) of the Better Business Bureau and filed a complaint with the state's AG. I got a series of rather nasty phone calls, including one guy who left a recording of his little temper tantrum on my voice mail; screaming into the phone about ruined credit reports and garnished wages. (

)

As an aside, I got a number of magazines in the mail and they were crap magazines. Magazines I would never, ever subscribe to myself. U.S. News and World Report (When I do read it, I read it at work), Premiere and Details (worthless except for the occasional article by Michael Chabon), just to name a few.

In the end, I got two letters back; one from the AG's office and one from the Vegas BBB, both of which say basically the same thing. Attached was a letter from the company that included a 'detailed' list of all the contact between us, including several initial conversations that just don't exist. Three "He's trying to screw us out of our money, buddy" paragraphs later, at the very, very end was written: "In response to Mr. [guthmund's] request, the account has been cancelled." They went on to say that although it was cancelled, some magazines may continue, but I won't be billed for them.

Problem solved.

Thanks to all.

Plaid13 · 09-12-2006, 03:02 PM

Glad to hear it all worked out. Really wish the BBB had more power to do something about companys like this. Next time something like this happens take note of the name and tell them to call back later. when they call back tell them you have them down as ordering a bunch of worthless crap and use the persons name. After a while they will most likely just get annoyed and hang up.

Dissociated · 09-23-2006, 12:44 AM

Handled very nicely I must say. That sort of thing would really annoy me a lot. Why can't these places just make an honest buck instead of trying to screw people?

07-23-2006, 08:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	I'm being billed for something I didn't order. Hello all, I should say, I have absolutely no idea where to put this.. I think the title is pretty self-explanatory, so let me slip right to the backstory. I work in a library and occasionally I get phone calls from telemarketers. Sometimes they ask for a specific person and sometimes it's a nice 'please hold for the next available representative...' message. According to policy (yea! working for the state! yea!) I'm not to "engage" the telemarketer, which is fine because I don't really want to hear what they have to say anyway. About a month ago I got a phone call from Sue (I can't remember her name...) who told me that I qualified for a discount on my order. "My order?" I ask. She goes on to say that according to her file, a representative called me a week previous and I agreed to buy into their little deal--to buy a shitload of magazine subscriptions totalling up to like $500 at $20 a month until...I don't know, I guess death. She verifies my name, but has the wrong address, which I didn't bother to correct. She also has no billing information on me. I told her I didn't order anything and that this is business phone in a semi-public place. I tell her a number of others man this particular phone during the day and that, truth be told, we're not even supposed to be talking to telemarkters anyway. I insist that she cancel my order and tell her that she shouldn't call again. She apologizes, says she'll see what she can do and tells me to have a nice day. I get a thing in the mail from them a few days later--all generic 'check this out' shit. I think nothing of it. A week ago, I get a call from Ann (this is her real name) who wants to get together with me about setting up arrangements for payment. Payment? Yes, she says, payment. I go through the story again. Business phone, semi-public area, I talked to a representative about this already and cancelled, I dinta order any mag' zines, cap'n...all that jazz. Ann isn't impressed. Ann says I can't back out now. I've made a verbal committment. The magazines are already on their way, the die is cast. I tell her that's too bad. I didn't place the order. Roll again. The company has a 'no cancellation policy' she tells me; I tell her I don't really care and that I have "don't pay for what I don't order" policy. I've now been on the phone for like..10 minutes and people are starting to stare. Finally, she gives up, gives me her number and tells me she'll expect my call by 3 o'clock to 'sort this mess out.' I implore her to not hold her breath waiting for my call. So... I got a bill from them today. The address is still wrong and the only personal information on it is my name--no credit card, debit card, phone number...nothing like that. There's a website on the back of the envelope, but I can't get it to come up. Magsubs.com, if you're interested. Kind of a long story just to ask... Is there anything I should be doing right now or should I just wait and see if it shows up on my credit report? My credit is kind of iffy already, so, I'm not worried about it being there other than...you know, it's a debt that I don't really owe. Is there someone to call about this? A website to complain to or something? Thanks in advance. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously. Last edited by guthmund; 07-23-2006 at 09:05 PM..

07-24-2006, 04:53 AM	#3 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	yep, me agrees with filterton - you certainly don't owe them crap - i assume that they sent the bill to work? i'm not sure they can file anything against your official credit report without some real data on your aside from your name. Real address, banking information, etc. You might be able to contact the Better Business Bureau in your area to ask them how to proceed legally, etc - but my guess is that it will just blow over. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

07-24-2006, 05:03 AM	#4 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	At my first job out of college, we had a somewhat similar scam that someone tried to run on us. Someone called about the "order" for toner for the copier (we had a contract that included toner from the place we leased it from). The receptionist tried to tell him we didn't order it, but he insisted that we did, even though he didn't have a name or even the right billing address for us. They tried to deliver it, even though it was the wrong type and had gotten wet (hmmm) and told us they couldn't put it back on the truck. My boss ended up calling the cops to make them go away, which they did. Guthmund, unless something shows up, you don't owe them anything. Even if something shows up, I still don't think you owe them anything. The onus is on them to produce the records proving that you did in fact place the order. I would tell "Ann" that you are contacting the police for harrassing you if she doesn't stop when she next calls. You can also take the bull by the horns and contact them directly using the bill that you received and ask for the proof that you did place the order including the date, time and whatever else you think is relevant. You might want to let the credit bureaus know that you think that a fraudulent charge is being made and give them the name of the company doing this. Good luck and let us know how it goes! __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

07-24-2006, 05:07 AM	#5 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Scam. Assuming that you've kept detailed notes of all contact with these fleecers, turn it over to your state Attorney General's office. The local news channels also like to get involved in these type of scams. They especially like it when the scammers are targeting the elderly, or the disabled. In the meantime, just keep doing what you're doing. Give them absolutely no information. And it wouldn't be over cautious at all to be checking your credit reports. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

07-24-2006, 12:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	Thanks, all. I've filed a complaint with both the Consumer Protection Division of the state AG's office and the Better Business Bureau. I've also sent an email to the head of the VegasBBB, which, as I understand it, will be handling the complaint. I'm going to use the number on the bill to call and get the particulars of my account as suggested, but I guess after that all I can do is hang around and see if this thing pops up on my credit report, right? Thanks again for all the replies. I didn't believe they could really do anything, but it's nice hear someone else say it. And thanks for the links, Redlemon. I've been typing in names all morning. There's a whole lot of scumbags out there, eh? __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

07-23-2006, 09:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	It sounds to me like they're just trying to shake you down. If you didn't make an agreement with them then there's no way they can prove that you did and they have to know this. I'd tell them to fuck off and that if they don't you'll pursue some sort of legal/bbb action.

07-24-2006, 07:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	If they don't have your social security number, they can't attached your "nonpayment" to your credit report. Given that, the risk involved with just ignoring them is very small. It's amazing to me that a company would behave this way. They must intimidate enough "customers" into paying their "bills" to make it profitable.

07-24-2006, 01:06 PM	#9 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	gothmund, if i were you, i wouldn't contact them or give them any additional anything. if they call, i'd hang up. let the ag / bbb handle it, and ask them to keep you apprised. the less contact you have with these people, the weaker their potential case could be. if they called again, i might tell them i've reported them to the authorities, and then i'd hang up. if they are duplicitous enough to start this scam in the first place, i doubt that they'll do anything if you call them. one letter from an attourney or the ag, and they'll probably stfu. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

07-24-2006, 01:12 PM	#10 (permalink)
MontanaXVI Junkie Location: Go A's!!!!	also and this might be a long shot, you work for the state is there some sort of legal representation you have access to? With me being in the Teamsters, and the UFCW before that I had access to some legal help if the need ever arose. Look into it, just in case you do have to take any legal action against the company. __________________ Spank you very much

07-24-2006, 03:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
level five Banned	if you receive something you didn't order, you legally don't have to pay for it. what's more, you can keep it! imagine that. these people only have your name. they have no proof you ordered anything. i'd laugh them out of the house. you've already spent far too much time on a non-isse. go on about your life and don't worry about it. oh, and i'd let your supervisor know since they called you on a government telephone.

07-24-2006, 08:15 PM	#13 (permalink)
NotAnAlias Tilted Location: Auckland, New Zealand	Hey, if the magazines have been sent, acording to "ann" and you haven't paid for them, you've got a truckload of free crappy magazines! :P What scumbags.

07-25-2006, 04:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
SirLance Junkie Location: In the middle of the desert.	1. Write a letter disputing the bill. Give no personal information they don't already have. Advise that you won't pay it, and order them to not contact you again. IMPORTANT: SEND IT CERTIFIED. KEEP A COPY. 2. Keep all materials relating to this matter. Write down to the best of your recollection, the nature of all phone calls, parties spoken to, names, dates, what was discussed, etc. If you EVER hear from these people again, contact a consumer law attorney in your area. Most will do a free initial consult. Find out what your rights are, and if you can sue with hope of recovery, ask them to take it on a contingency fee basis. __________________ DEMOCRACY is where your vote counts, FEUDALISM is where your count votes.

07-25-2006, 06:04 PM	#17 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I think that the next time you speak with them you should suddenly "remember" your agreement with them, you should also "remember" some outrageous product or service that they agreed to give you in addition to the magazines, like a car, or a year's supply of shiatsu massages.

08-29-2006, 06:36 AM	#18 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	UPDATE: I thought I'd let you guys know how it turned out. So, I reported them to the Vegas chapter (?) of the Better Business Bureau and filed a complaint with the state's AG. I got a series of rather nasty phone calls, including one guy who left a recording of his little temper tantrum on my voice mail; screaming into the phone about ruined credit reports and garnished wages. ( ) As an aside, I got a number of magazines in the mail and they were crap magazines. Magazines I would never, ever subscribe to myself. U.S. News and World Report (When I do read it, I read it at work), Premiere and Details (worthless except for the occasional article by Michael Chabon), just to name a few. In the end, I got two letters back; one from the AG's office and one from the Vegas BBB, both of which say basically the same thing. Attached was a letter from the company that included a 'detailed' list of all the contact between us, including several initial conversations that just don't exist. Three "He's trying to screw us out of our money, buddy" paragraphs later, at the very, very end was written: "In response to Mr. [guthmund's] request, the account has been cancelled." They went on to say that although it was cancelled, some magazines may continue, but I won't be billed for them. Problem solved. Thanks to all. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

09-12-2006, 03:02 PM	#19 (permalink)
Plaid13 I want a Plaid crayon	Glad to hear it all worked out. Really wish the BBB had more power to do something about companys like this. Next time something like this happens take note of the name and tell them to call back later. when they call back tell them you have them down as ordering a bunch of worthless crap and use the persons name. After a while they will most likely just get annoyed and hang up.

09-23-2006, 12:44 AM	#20 (permalink)
Dissociated Upright	Handled very nicely I must say. That sort of thing would really annoy me a lot. Why can't these places just make an honest buck instead of trying to screw people?