Stompy

I'm not sure if it's stress, lack of motivation, or what, but I'm going to end up dropping my Calc 3 class this semester.

Maybe I lack the discipline to get up every morning, drive 15 miles to class, stay for an hour, then drive back and have to work 8 hours (sometimes much more), but the fact is, I still maintain a STRONG interest in math and physics. If the school were closer to me, I'd be more inclined to go each and every day.

It gave me an idea: teach myself. Despite dropping the class, I'll still read the calc book and work the problems, understanding the concepts that each section conveys. I won't get a grade, or college credit, but the knowledge - which is the only thing that matters (at least, to me).

Hell, I read up on special relativity and work out the problems (for ex, from Feynman's books) to get a better understanding of it all.. just for shits and giggles, as something to do. Whenever books dive into topics of chemistry where it doesn't elaborate, and I'm unfamiliar with the topic, I find myself on wiki, google.. wherever, finding information, teaching myself those topics.

I would also feel more comfortable knowing I can learn at my own pace. If I'm having a stressful day, or need to work 12 hours, there won't be that feeling of "failure" if I don't complete my homework or didn't find time to study.

Using the library, the internet, or maybe even buying used textbooks here and there, I'm curious as to how well this method would work as I get more advanced into the physics/math.

The determination is there, and I almost feel more.. willing and motived to do this as opposed to actually attending class.

Another advantage is... when I decide to take up Calc 3 again, or take physics/chemistry, I'll be VERY familiar with the material making it easier and less stressful to be pressured into the schedule those classes would require. Meaning.. I wouldn't necessarily have to spend 3 hours on homework doing basic force problems because I already understand it.

I had an idea to email the heads of math and physics departments at nearby colleges, asking them what textbooks they use in their courses.. that way I can head out and get what I need.

I notice through my classes that the professors don't really elaborate much beyond the scope of the book. I've done it before where I missed 2 days, but read the material myself and fully understood it. Upon going back to class, I actually found I was ahead of where the professor was.

Has anyone done this, or know of anyone who's done this?

Any thoughts?

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MexicanOnABike

ya. teaching yourself can work great. i thought myself everything there is to know about computers including 3dgraphics and i'm ahead of my classes right now. only problem i have is setting a schedule to learn. if i have 1 week, i'll do much more but with no actual class, you might start to loose interest? but if you dont need the grade, then ya, it's a good idea.

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Stompy

Yeah, I taught myself programming at a young age and have been doing it professionally for about 10 years now.

I was just wondering if the more.. "advanced" areas of life, ie the math and physics, could be done in the same way (although I don't see why they couldn't).

Just wondering how prevalent self-taught physicists/mathematicians are.

Another idea I had was.. whether or not I could get a scholarship, or some type of incentive if I approached a university already possessing this knowledge.

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robbdn

I have a lot of thoughts about this. A very good friend of mine, and myself, found ourselves thinking similarly several years ago... I decided to stay in school, he decided not to.

The bottom line is, intellectually we are still at the same place. I am enormously in debt, he isn't. I have done a lot of networking, he hasn't. In my opinion, the days of single-handedly defining a field regardless of background are over... the bottom line is that networking is what is going to get you a job and get you into a respected position of the field regardless of your ability to learn on your own.

Programming is a different thing, because it's still new, theoretical math, however...

Anyway, if you do indeed intend, and dedicate yourself, to going back after getting a head-start, it could be incredibly beneficial to the networking process...

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Jinn

Self instruction (in my own anecdotal experience) is always more effective than structured learning at achieving SPECIFIC knowledge. If you a specific question or specific set of questions, you'll likely better reach a solution by researching it yourself. However, General Knowledge about a topic really only comes from instruction: assuming your instructor is an expert or relative expert in their field, they'll be directing you toward the general ideas that are precursors to the individual research you'll later do.

I wouldn't count on scholarships, and unfortunately -- knowledge means very little unless you can demonstrate or document it. Demonstration is often not an option, because it would waste a great deal of acceptance comittees' and employers' time to let everyone demonstrate their knowledge. If you're learning for the intrinsic benefit of learning, go ahead. But if you're learning with the idea that it will help you in the future -- only the documentation of an accredited "school" will have an immediate effect.

Trust me, I hate my 21 credit hours just as much as the next guy, and I know that I could learn it more efficiently under my own tutelage. But very few HR departments will hire someone without a piece of paper to back up their claims of brilliance.

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Pip

Don't you know you're supposed to have read the material before the lecture? It's one of those things everyone talks about but few have experienced: being "in phase". I was in phase once, because I was going on a trip on the date of a Mechanics theory exam, so I learned the stuff on my own and took an earlier exam. However, I still had to do the practical exam on the ordinary date, so I attended the lectures even though I alredy knew the material. It was a neat experience, not being completely lost for once.

I don't know what exactly Calc III corresponds to... some math/physics/engineering courses are a lot easier to learn on your own than others, it's best to ask friends who have taken it already what they think.

thingstodo

That is a key thing. If you need the paper it really isn't an option. And the side benefits of networking, etc. previously mentioned can also be important.

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LeviticusMky

The penchant for teaching yourself is incalculably valuable, but the checkmark that having a degree will garner on your resume has a price tag. Here in America that price tag is about 20,000 bucks a year in salary.

In order to get a meaningful education from college one must be self taught. Professors can show you where the information is, but there is only one person who can learn it, and how well you learn it is wholly dependant on how willing you are to teach yourself the material.

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raeanna74

I took an Advanced English Grammar class in college and failed it. Totally flat out got an 'F'. BUT I wanted to nail that class and I had to take it over again. I went home over Christmas break. Got a grammar textbook and workbook and drilled myself hard on it. I spent about 4 or 5 hours at it a day over break. I went back the next semester, signed up for the class again and came out with a 'B+'. It was worth while to do that work and so satisfying to have a marker of my improvement like that. So if you have that drive to learn what it is you want to learn then do it yourself but if you need the paper go back again afterwards and take that class again and get yourself a better grade in the process.

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frogza

In my experience, if you want knowledge for the sake of knowledge, teach yourself. If you want knowledge for the sake of money, go to school.

Stompy

I want the knowledge for sake of having the knowledge. Yeah, a degree is always beneficial, but I have a pretty stable career.

I think I just wanted others opinions on how realistic something like this could be.. and so far it doesn't sound like a bad way to go at all.

I've also found a ton of math and physics textbooks via P2P of classes I was planning on taking, along with their solutions manuals to check my problems.

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stingc

They don't exist. At least not if you mean professional physicists or mathematicians. But then you already have a career. There are certainly a lot of interesting things that you can pick up on your own.

A big issue is that problem-solving is really the most important thing in these fields. In what is generally called a Calc 3 class, there are really only a handful of specific types of problems that you're expected to learn about. Once you get the basic idea, that's that. At any higher level, the level of abstraction and "openness" climbs very very quickly. That makes some level of solution feedback much more important. Upper level (beyond freshman or occasionally sophomore year) textbooks also do not have solution manuals or a significant number of examples. They don't repeat themselves like intro books either.

Another thing is that universities generally force you to learn subjects in an order that you might think is boring or unimportant. It can sometimes take an extra couple of years of study to realize that you really did need to know all of that "irrelevant" stuff to fully appreciate and understand the subject. For example you mention studying special relativity a bit. I don't really know your background, but a lot of people try to get into that without a solid background in the physics that came before it. That would be a very bad idea in my opinion. The same follows for any piece of physics, though. It's all connected, and it all builds on what came before.

Finally, when you get into the newer stuff, you eventually come to realize that there are no textbooks you can go to anymore. The vast majority of knowledge in these fields has never been written up for students. There are also disagreements between different authors, and you really need to decide on your own exactly what each conclusion assumes, and how reasonable it is.

Anyway, sorry about being so pessimistic. Good luck in whatever you end up doing. If you need any textbook recommendations, I could probably help you out.