Mantus

I am contemplating going back to my WoW character but PvP was pretty pointless back when I left in January (before the honor system). Do ya folks feel that it will get any better?

I played Lineage 2 but the free period expired before, I couldn't get my character high enough (got to lvl38) to trully get a feel for the PvP and never fought for a castle. I though it was rather fun but all the farmers and bots ruined it. Wondering if it's any better now.

Any recomendations out there?

Talo

I've played many MMO's and the one with by far the best PvP system is Ultima Online. Its a lot different from pretty much every popular MMO out there at the moment in that there aren't any levels, rather you need increase skills, and you can only have a total of 700 skill points. Last I played was a few years ago though, and I would imagine server populations are pretty low now, so I would research a little and see if people are still playing the game and pvping a lot, or if the people that do play only spend time in the non-pvp enabled areas.

Other than Ultima Online, DAoC was a great game for pvp. I didn't play it to much, but I always enjoyed the fact that whichever realm controlled the most keeps obtained access to their own zone. Definatly look a little bit online about UO and DAoC to see if the games sound like they would fit your interest and if they are still populated enough to make pvp worthwhile.

killeena

UO PvP was definately fun, but I haven't played since right before UO3D, when they started factions. Factions were nice, kinda gave PvP a point.

As far as WoW goes, I am enjoying the battlegrounds right now. The honor system is alright too, but I am willing to be that there will be a lot more coming eventually.

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Plan9Senior

wow is one of the worst mmo pvp games to date. Only people new to the genre would feel otherwise. UO was the best. Even asheron's call had some really fun pvp.

Drider_it

honestly for pvp wise in wow.. it blows.

in pvp servers its nothing about true pvp.. its all about diablo 2 style player killer punk ass ganking .. its all about can my higher lvl take out these lower lvl's with ease.

if you can take out someone around your level, you better move on to a different zone and quick, cuz a quick guild tell will bring them flocking to your doorstep.. and if you do happen to come across someone your level to fight.. be warned there will be a high lvl rogue waiting for you to spring thier trap.. or a high lvl ne druid .. hard to spot night elves that are rogues or druids thier shadowmeld ability gives them the advantage over other races like that.

the honor system if a failed project. All a mage has to do is spam some aoe attacks and wait for the meat shields to wipe up .. no wonder our class got high on the hk rankings right off.

hell my mage is godly in his ranking on lothar just cuz of my aoe abilites. i aoe before they can kill me i frost nova ice barrier blink away outta range and watch. maybe toss a blizzard to help out.

pvp wise.. its a nusance on pvp servers, and a cowards way of playing on the pve servers.

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Mantus

Well Drider, I can tell you that that senario will happen in any open PvP game. You simply can't stop ganking and still call it a PvP server.

On the other hand, what makes good PvP? To me it's a combination of just two things.

Politics. A game needs to encourage a fuild relationship between various factions. Some pre-set dispositions are acceptable but there should be room for deplomacy.

Real Objectives. Outposts, castles, towns or anything that has to be taken and held thus having an impact on the game world. Points, flags and item rewards are nice but frivolous and inane.


This is why I am leaning towards Lineage 2 again. It has an open deplomatic system as well as castles to capture.

sailor

I havent played any other MMOs, but I'll have to agree that the PvP in WoW is broken. Like Drider said, it's all about ganking. There's the occasional fun bouts of fighting--raiding a town/city, and the battlegrounds can be fun sometimes, but all in all... Broken. When someone who's never played another MMO can tell this one's broken, that doesnt say much good about the game's PVP.

Also like Drider said, it really becomes more of a nuisance than anything else. Ganking is so prevalent that it becomes impossible to level in some areas--areas that Blizzard had intended to be the next logical place for you to go to level end up being gank-fests, and you have to struggle to find other places where you can productively level. Running the same instances over, and over, and over, or grinding for hours to get XP because you cant go quest in the areas you are supposed to be able to just isnt much fun.

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edwhit

It's all well and good to say you don't like the PvP in WoW. But the question asked is what is the best MMO FOR pvp.

I'd like to hear people's opinions as well.

I've played many of them from time to time and one of the best concepts for me was Shadowbane. However, due to bugs that didn't get fixed till late it lost most of it's subscribers, including me. I miss it some days though. It is an all out pvp game with the ability to build cities, build guilds, alliances and seige other cities. It has a lot of great ideas.

dabossy2k

Man UO was the best EQ sucks at it WoW while I think better then EQ still sucks battlegrounds if you can ever get in is fun but ya mages just AOE everything and get a ton of honor kills or you get ganked but level 60s when your in your 30s. Didnt like Asherons call enough to even get into PVP.

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raist

Never tried UO so cant comment on that one, But I've done PvP in WoW, DAoC, Shadowbane, amd SWG. IMO DAoC has one of the best PvP systems out there.

If you've never played DAoC, its a great time to check it out now and hop on one of the new classic servers. I rerolled my character on Gareth and have been enjoying DAoC all over again. Classic servers have all the expansions except Trials of Atlantis which added a ton of overpowered abilities that gave a huge PvP advantage to those who had a ton of time, and the casual players wouldnt have much of a chance in PvP anymore

Now, PvP is alot of fun again without having so many overpowered abilities out there against the average player.

FngKestrel

Guild Wars has PvP in it which PvE are exposed to briefly, as well as the ability to make PvP chars right off the bat. With the mix of characters and abilities, players really need to be on their toes to be effective PvPers.

Mantus

Yet it seem that in Guild Wars there is not point to the fight. I don't find PvPing very intresting if there is no set purpose to it. Like in Diablo where PvP was a secondary (while very fun) activity. I would rather play Counter Strike or some other shooter for that kind of player vs player competitiveness.

Now I am giving DAoC a shot, I downloaded their free trial. At the moment I am a bit set back by the ancient user interface though I'll try to see past that

Concerning WoW pvp. I think "broken" is the wrong word for it. There is nothing broken about ganking lowbies. That is part of the PvP enviroment. I think a better description of WoW PvP would be undeveloped because there is no purpose to it. Further more, as long as it remains horde vs. aliance there will never be any nuance to the fighting. I think one's role in WoW PvP is too restricted by polar and set in stone teams.

snowy

I would agree with this. I really wish that there were ways to bridge between the two factions, especially when in the presence of a common enemy (I've been questing a lot in the Plaguelands lately). It's really hard for me to not get angry when I've been working with a member of the Horde, we've been helping each other out, and then some OTHER Horde comes up and decides to gank me. I wish there were some way around this, but alas--no room for diplomacy I guess.

PvP in WoW is, quite frankly, dumb. Despite the introduction of the honor system and Battlegrounds, ganking is still VERY common. Personally, I'd like to see gankers get dishonorable kills because it really brings down the quality of play even on a PvP server. I LIKE PvP, but only if I'm fighting against someone around my own level, and so it's hard for me to comprehend the ganking mindset.

So, no, I wouldn't recommend coming back to World of Warcraft unless you plan on spending all your time in Battlegrounds. That's about the only place for quality, even PvP anymore.

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Lasereth

World of Warcraft has the best combat system hands down, but the actual PVP is based solely around one fact: whoever gets the jump is usually going to win. It doesn't matter what class you are...85% of the time, if you get the jump, you're gonna win unless the person is way higher than you. Extremely skilled players (me) can survive a surprise jump most of the time, but average players are basically dead.

In BGs, PVP is nonexistant. Warsong Gulch has decent PVP, but it doesn't really matter because Alterac Valley fucked over the honor system so bad that it's not worth it.

-Lasereth

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Anxst

PvP in WoW, as others have said, sucks. One of the best things I ever did was move to a PvE server.

For good PvP, I still prefer Dark Age of Camelot. The Realm Wars system is fun, and mostly fair, or at least it was last time I played...which I admit was quite a while ago.

Check it out sometime.

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Mantus

onesnowyowl,

I disagree about ganking being a downfall of WoW. To me there is nothing wrong with ganking. The problem in WoW is that there is no other way you can retaliate against a ganking oponent accept to gank them back and even then it doesnt work. This is because there are only two teams and those teams are so huge there is no way to specifically target the particular offending group or clan.

The only way WoW PvP can become fun, is if everyone on the server addapts an us vs them mentality. No "lets be friends", no ignoring the enemy, just kill or be killed. Then things will work, clans will start working together. Whole territories will be denied to one side or another and ganking will have a place in the larger scheme of things.

Yet, not everyone wants that kind of PvP.

Halx

I have no basis to compare. I have no idea what good or bad PvP is. I play on a WoW PvE server and I am at Rank 6 in the honor system. All I know is that this game is like a big giant rock paper scissors tournament. There is very little skill (meaning, you just have to be average) involved... your class determines who you can beat and who kicks your ass.

Being a NE Druid, I can handily defeat all classes except warlocks, priests and shaman.

Here's what you do to a druid if you are any one of those classes:
Warlock: Fear kite once and tag on every single DoT you have. Fear kite a second time and tag on CoS and hit 'em with a shadowbolt. Voila.

Priest: Fear kite. SW:P. Mind Flay. Silence.

Shaman: 2 things: Purge and Earth Shock. Over and over.

As far as Druids beating everyone else.. well.. a druid with innervate can pretty much outlast anyone else.

Rogues: Faerie Fire, then root.
Warriors: Root.
Mages: Make them waste their CS early, before you switch to bear form and get up in their face.
Paladins: Usually a stalemate, but can go to the druid with innervate... after about 20 minutes.
Hunters: Root and stand 5 yards away.

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thriolith

Well, the point of PvP is to be the best, quite obviously. In Guild Wars, you do Guild Battles and hope to become first on the ladder. Tomb of the Primeval Kings is an on-going tournament, and there are rewards for winning it.

And the thing is that PvP in RPGs isn't nearly the same as in a FPS, so I can't say you can really compare it like that.

Guild Wars PvP does require a lot of strategy and requires you to work as a team, if you want to win that is. It won't matter how good you yourself are if you don't have the right team. Most of the PvP takes place with max level characters, which is 20. You can make PvP only characters which is nice, but you'll still need to unlock skills with a RP (Role-Playing) character, which is a pain in the ass...

Well, it seems certain team builds are way too strong at the moment in the Tombs tournament, but they're supposed to have some stuff balanced by this weekend.

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