I think you're right. Trying to split hairs on why it's "ok" to hurt people in a fictional situation and not "ok" to do it in real life isn't the way to go, especially if you're talking to a younger kid. I think the better tact is to shy away from ideas about "right" and "wrong" and talk about what effect violence has on a situation. Take, for example, GTA: if you kill someone for their money, there's a chance you'll get a star. The more people you kill, the more people want to kill you. You always die in the end. That seems like a good example of violence never working out to me.

IMO, there are too many examples in our world (not just video games, but movies and books as well) where characters use violence for "good" to just tell kids that violence is never the answer. We, as a society, have proved that we sometimes believe violence is necessary. I think it's better not to go after if killing/attacking/hurting people is right or wrong, but what the alternatives are and how they're better (because they usually are).

I think you actually have to watch the kids playing the game, to determine if there's a problem. It's a tricky thing, but, you need to work out if they're shooting people or targets, if you follow me.

Does anyone have (or know where to find) a list of what retailers will still sell this game? I've been putting it off for a combination of lack of $50 and still having 5 games I haven't beat yet on Xbox, but now I fee like I'm stuck (or will have to pay extra to get it)

Gogamer still has it.

http://www.gogamer.com/

Can I get one of those cool AO stickers for my copy?

Uh-oh. Now The Sims is a pedophile training tool. Goddamn, is there no end to right-wing stupidity?

Stores are still offering as far as I'm concerned, you just have to specifically ask for it or something like that. But either way, it won't take them long to just make a new batch of games with the AO sticker on them.

Then again, M$ first came out at launch and said that no Xbox games would be rated AO. Now that this has happened, its going to make for some interesting news bits in the future. Good luck, I still have my copy of the game with M on it. :D

This is just getting fucking ridiculous. I hope that all these idiots come to realize that all this entertainment media can be subverted in one way or another and to impose these ridiculous restrictions on the gaming industry is absolutely stupid.

Unfortunately, Hillary Clinton had her hand in the GTA fiasco, so this thing isn't right-wing stupidity, it's technological ignorance.

And gee, theres a money-hungry attorney that's behind it..

You know if the kids have access to the mod to get to have sex in GTA San Andreas, then they have the ability to get tons of free porn. That's how I see it...

Any PC game that can be modified could contain adult content with modification. If parents choose not to police their children's gaming and internet use, then I believe they are washing their hands clean of the issue. These seem to be the people complaining.
Hillary Clinton saw something people were upset about, and championed the cause to get her name out there. It's all just political agenda. I doubt she really cares anyways. I also doubt she's ever even had sex, but that's another issue for another day. Don't mean to turn to personal attacks, but it was there, so I went for it. It's more of a Bill joke anyways.

Why is it ok to slaughter innocents overseas, but wrong to have hidden porn in mature rated video games?

Actually, I didn't have to download the mod to access the sex scenes in GTA:SA on my PC. It was simply a part of completing a mission. At least that's how it was with the latina (I forget her name - the crazy one). CJ did keep his clothes on though. I guess a polygonal schlong would've been just a bit too much for GTA's target demographic to handle.

If you wanna talk Superbowl, how about Nicolet Sheridan's back? OMG it's a BARE BACK! WTF! I DON'T WANT MY KIDS TO SEE A BARE BACK, WHICH THEY CAN SEE IF THEY WALK THE FUCK OUTSIDE!

Argh...I have a theory that all these right-wing fanatics know that what they condemn isn't wrong, but if they can look like a responsible person by condemning it, they won't think twice. Can someone say insecurity?

I say we make Hillary Clinton wear a burkha for the rest of her life.

Okay, here's a question to argue the other side of the point. Should this game have been AO before all this hubub simply for the sheer amount of violence in the game?

What is the line between M and AO? What should the line be?

Heck no. The violence in GTA, graphically, is extremely tame. Kill Bill was far worse, and that only hit R 18+ here because of exposed brains.

The line is "sexual themes" and "graphic sexual content".

http://www.gtasanandreas.net/news/single.php?id=1766

Hi-larious.

Nice link. That does bring up a good point though. If those crackpots in Washington manage to bump Sims 2 up to a more mature rating from T, does that mean Barbie dolls, which can be readily disrobed by the end user, should be only sold to people 17 and up? :lol:

This entire situation baffles me.

As we all know, M is 17+ . What's a rated R movie? 17+. What rating was Basic Instinct, which had LOADS of graphic sex? R.

Not only that, but... it's NOT okay to see these pixellated sex scene if you're 17, however, a year later, you are of ripe age to experience it in it's entirety? There's really no difference between 17 and 18, and I don't understand why they aren't seeing this.

What this is is a bunch of people in power that honestly have NO IDEA what the hell they're talking about and completely lack any sign of logic and reasoning. They should NOT be in the positions there were elected to and should be removed immediately... yet no one sees this.

You need to go online with the INTENT of applying this patch to unlock the code. Now, if you had the ability to do that, you also have the ability and know-how to access unlimited amounts of hardcore porn.

If someone wants to see sex, they will see it - plain and simple.

I would like to see one VALID reason why sex is so bad, yet all the violence is perfectly okay. Seriously, WHY is sex so bad that we have to censor it to this extent? It's a natural part of life, everyone does it. You wouldn't be here if it wasn't for sex. It shouldn't be censored.

There's all this fuss to "protect children", but guess what? When parents' backs are turned, their kids are swearing up a storm. If there's a rated R movie, they're gonna watch it.

Enough of this fucking control and censorship - it's getting out of hand and is completely contradicting everything this country was founded upon.

I came to think about that too. I have a few theories about M which is for 17+ and AO which is 18+

1. Most stores dont even carry adult so it harder to get ahold of. They are not worried about the 17 or 18 year olds but rather before the big WalMarts and Targets started to ID whenever a M game was scanned, any kid with 50 bucks could easily get the game themselves.

1.5 Also Parents teld to get all these games at Walmart and Target. If they were to go onto any gamer website and buy the game then they would see its Adults Only and more likely than not no get it for them.

2. 18 year olds tend to hang out with older crowds. Sure they might be seniors in high schoool for a little bit but that extra year from 17 to 18 is a big difference in who they hang out with. Less chance from getting a game from a senior from a junior (note I said LESS chance, its not bulletproof Same reason for the alcohol age)

Comments?

Update: FTC to investigate Rockstar Games

http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.as...feature&email=

Secondary update: The modder responds to Clinton, Yee, and Thompson.

http://biz.gamedaily.com/articles.as...n=news&days=-1

I'd also like to throw in that every game company is required to submit a tape to the ESRB demonstrating gameplay which may be considered questionable. So it very well could be Rockstar's fault for omitting the sex scenes. I say this because like Coppertop said, he was able to access the hot coffee scenes without any sort of modding.

And the lawsuits begin..

This one is a 85-year old grandma that bought it for a 14 year old grandson...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...o_game_lawsuit

Ugh, these people are disgusting and need to be shot.

I don't know wtf people don't get about, "You have to MODIFY THE GAME TO UNLOCK THE CONTENT."

Just another money grubbing POS.

Oh wow, it's totally banned in Australia now. The ratings board revoked it's rating, so it's illegal to sell or hire the game. A bit much for some fully-clothed badly animated sex, eh? I doubt they even did much more than read the US news about it, for fuck's sake. I'm quickly losing faith in humanity.

I am still wondering why this game is all the hype at the moment when there is Leisure Suit Larry and I havent heard anything about that....

That was banned in Australia, too. It's a date rape simulator, apparently. We don't get Postal, either. Strangely enough, orders for Postal 2 are surprisingly high from .au...

Or how about Max Payne 2, where typing in an actual CHEAT CODE, not a mod, let you see one of the main characters fully nude.

-Lasereth

How soon is the new version being released? This is fucking stupid how many stores won't carry this now. I can't find it ANYWHERE in my town.

even. www.gogamer.com is sold out! AUGGGGHHHHHH!

OK, i'm better now. They were selling it at my local EB Games. You just had to "ask for it" because they wouldn't display it.

BTW, fuck everyone selling it on eBay for $99. Bastards.