Here is a mystery - puzzle game for you - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mondak · 06-08-2004, 09:03 PM

I played Vermilian room (already mentioned in another thread) and it was pretty tough. The only way I was able to beat it was by cheating (looking for hints on Google). It did remind me of another game that I played while back. It was called Grow! by Eyezmaze.

The reason I liked Grow so much is that I never felt hopeless. I did not need others help to complete it. I just figured it out on my own by trial and error and then eventually I saw how it worked.

Give it a shot and let me know if you like it.

http://www.kiteretsu.jp/on/grow3/index.html

dirtyrascal7 · 06-08-2004, 09:47 PM

it took me a while and quite a few notes to figure out the right sequence, but i finally got the perfect score of 20000. thanks for posting that. it was challenging, yet didn't drive me nuts.

Mondak · 06-09-2004, 06:54 AM

Yeah - that is why I liked it. It never got to the point where it was pissing me off but it was not easy.

Pellaz · 06-09-2004, 07:54 AM

all three of his games are mad fun, imo, can't wait until the 4th he's working on is finished

BonesCPA · 06-09-2004, 01:01 PM

That was an hour of my life.....frustrating, yet satisfying when finished.

boatin · 06-09-2004, 01:04 PM

well, as usual for me, I don't get it. I see no connection or cause and effect. I played with it for a while (20 min), and just created frustration.

Any way to discuss it without giving anyone the answer? I just feel like I need some context, or something. Maybe a PM, for anyone that wants/is able to help me?

MooseMan3000 · 06-09-2004, 03:42 PM

Certain items help or hinder each other's leveling. You just watch what affects what, and work from there.

Ace_O_Spades · 06-09-2004, 04:04 PM

I found some things take longer to develop, and certain things level other things very fast

It took me around 2 hours to get a perfect score

Pellaz · 06-09-2004, 04:34 PM

fun non-winning path:

Spoiler: Place the tornado, then pipe, then the twirly thingy on top to reveal a monster

H12 · 06-09-2004, 07:32 PM

Well, it's pretty safe to say that I suck at that. I made a weird baby-monster thing though, so that was cool.

krazykemist · 06-10-2004, 01:23 AM

Damn that grey pipe!

Fremen · 06-10-2004, 01:35 AM

After I put every item on the ship, and after it renews the items, the only item I can click on is the pipe.
Is that normal? Or does everyones' do this?

Kadath · 06-10-2004, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fremen
After I put every item on the ship, and after it renews the items, the only item I can click on is the pipe.
Is that normal? Or does everyones' do this?

Well, as I understand the game, once you put everything in you're done.

I ran through once, noted the similarity to rebuilding the ship in Pikmin, thought about getting it perfect and went off to play a different game. I'm just too lazy for that sort of thing.

Knoweffects · 06-12-2004, 11:52 AM

anyone wanna post a spoiler?

Stiltzkin · 06-12-2004, 10:51 PM

Massive spoiler alert!

Quote:

March 22, 2004
Looking at "Grow" – [musings]

Michael posted a link to the Grow Flash game. [grandtextauto.org: Grow]

It is an interesting game that essentially boils down to a logic puzzle. You have twelve elements that need to be selected in the correct order, though there are certain incorrect subsequences that produce interesting results.

Detailed spoilers inside.

As there are twelve elements, the possible number of sequences is 12! = 479,001,600.

Some notes on how the elements behave:

pipe - If a blue mountain is present, produces bubbles which turn into clouds. If weathervane is active, clouds will blow away. If big tornado is active, bubbles are sucked into tornado. Otherwise, clouds form over mountain.

gear - requires four steps to mature into clock. If sphere has electricity and is in orbit, clock will run.

weathervane - requires three steps to mature into big weathervane. When big weathervane is combined with tornado, provides electricity to sphere.

dish - requires three steps to mature into satellite dish. If in orbit, provides radio signal to console screen.

egg - requires eleven steps to mature into freaky flying thing.

ladder - requires eight steps to mature.

cube - requires nine steps to mature into robot.

yellow sphere - requires six steps to mature into sunflower.

console screen - requires power and radio signal to mature.

tornado - requires three steps to mature into big tornado. Once mature, will drift to north pole. If no weathervane, tornado disappears. If weathervane too small, tornado destroys it. Otherwise, weathervane and tornado provide electricity to sphere.

blue mountain - requires clouds for rainy mountain. Rainy mountain requires sunflower to turn into green mountain. Green mountain provides water to pipe, which turns into flower. If no clouds, turns into volcano. Volcano provides lava to pipe.

rocket - requires one step to launch sphere into orbit.

Now these are rules that are discovered by trying different sequences. Some of the incorrect sequences provide hints that certain elements need to react in a certain way, such as getting a pool of lava when the bubbles don't reach the mountain.

As constituative rules, the puzzle transforms into a logic puzzle, the kind normally solved on a grid. For example:

There are three boys, Andy, Bobby, and Chris. One boy is 8, one boy is 10, and one boy is 11.

Andy borrowed a slingshot from the oldest boy.

Bobby is younger than Andy.

How old is each boy?

"Grow" could be solved by taking the above set of rules and solving a 12x12 logic grid.

But one of the interesting things about Grow is that the logic statements used to solve to puzzle have to be discovered through manipulation. You have to explore the game space. As a result, the player becomes a reader, discovering small passages of a story.

So, what kind of story is it that the reader discovers? Is this a so-called emergent story, where many combinations lead to many different outcomes? No, there is only one "full" story, one correct path to go down. Like blowing up the dragon in Adventureland, all of the alternative paths will only prevent the final solution.

Now it is possible that my analysis is incorrect, and there is more than one solution here. But my point is that even if there are, say, three full solutions, that means there are only 3 solutions in a space of 479,001,600 possible paths.

It is understandable that the author/designer would only create one master story/solution for the puzzle. After all, the project has to be put together in a reasonable amount of time. But the potential story space is so big -- 12! paths -- that many of them are eliminated by limiting the interactions of the elements. The yellow sphere and the egg doesn't interact with anything.

I like and enjoy these kinds of puzzles (nick @ GTxA posted about Crimson Room a few weeks ago), but for me they pose this problem: It takes weeks/months of work to produce a good puzzle, and the end result only produces a single story that can easily be consumed in an afternoon. Is there a way to get more out of all that expended effort, to perhaps build a machine that builds puzzles?

A theoretical machine, that is.

http://www.antimodal.com/archives/000038.html

TawG · 06-13-2004, 12:28 PM

damn, that was a rush

my favorite game on the net so far

Confederate · 06-13-2004, 02:46 PM

That got aggrivating real quick, had to look up a spoiler myself.

06-08-2004, 09:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mondak Industrialist Location: Southern California	Here is a mystery - puzzle game for you I played Vermilian room (already mentioned in another thread) and it was pretty tough. The only way I was able to beat it was by cheating (looking for hints on Google). It did remind me of another game that I played while back. It was called Grow! by Eyezmaze. The reason I liked Grow so much is that I never felt hopeless. I did not need others help to complete it. I just figured it out on my own by trial and error and then eventually I saw how it worked. Give it a shot and let me know if you like it. http://www.kiteretsu.jp/on/grow3/index.html __________________ All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed Second, it is violently opposed and Third, it is accepted as self-evident. ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

06-08-2004, 09:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
dirtyrascal7 That's what she said	it took me a while and quite a few notes to figure out the right sequence, but i finally got the perfect score of 20000. thanks for posting that. it was challenging, yet didn't drive me nuts. __________________ "Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past." "Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

06-09-2004, 06:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
Mondak Industrialist Location: Southern California	Yeah - that is why I liked it. It never got to the point where it was pissing me off but it was not easy. __________________ All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed Second, it is violently opposed and Third, it is accepted as self-evident. ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

06-09-2004, 07:54 AM	#4 (permalink)
Pellaz Addict Location: Texas	all three of his games are mad fun, imo, can't wait until the 4th he's working on is finished __________________ " ' Big Mouth. Remember it took three of you to kill me. A god, a boy, and, last and least, a hero.' "

06-09-2004, 01:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
BonesCPA No. It's not done yet. Location: sorta kinda phila	That was an hour of my life.....frustrating, yet satisfying when finished. __________________ Back into hibernation.

06-09-2004, 01:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
boatin Psycho	well, as usual for me, I don't get it. I see no connection or cause and effect. I played with it for a while (20 min), and just created frustration. Any way to discuss it without giving anyone the answer? I just feel like I need some context, or something. Maybe a PM, for anyone that wants/is able to help me?

06-09-2004, 03:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
MooseMan3000 wouldn't mind being a ninja. Location: Maine, the Other White State.	Certain items help or hinder each other's leveling. You just watch what affects what, and work from there.

06-09-2004, 04:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	I found some things take longer to develop, and certain things level other things very fast It took me around 2 hours to get a perfect score __________________ Feh.

06-09-2004, 04:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
Pellaz Addict Location: Texas	fun non-winning path: Spoiler: Place the tornado, then pipe, then the twirly thingy on top to reveal a monster __________________ " ' Big Mouth. Remember it took three of you to kill me. A god, a boy, and, last and least, a hero.' "

06-09-2004, 07:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
H12 I'm not about getting creamed, I'm about winning! Location: K-Town, TN	Well, it's pretty safe to say that I suck at that. I made a weird baby-monster thing though, so that was cool. __________________ "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle

06-10-2004, 01:23 AM	#11 (permalink)
krazykemist Psycho Location: New Orleans	Damn that grey pipe! __________________ "Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." -- Tolstoy

06-10-2004, 01:35 AM	#12 (permalink)
Fremen With a mustache, the cool factor would be too much Location: left side of my couch, East Texas	After I put every item on the ship, and after it renews the items, the only item I can click on is the pipe. Is that normal? Or does everyones' do this? __________________ Google

06-12-2004, 11:52 AM	#14 (permalink)
Knoweffects Tilted Location: san marcos CA	anyone wanna post a spoiler? __________________ no h8 only <3

06-13-2004, 12:28 PM	#16 (permalink)
TawG Crazy	damn, that was a rush my favorite game on the net so far

06-13-2004, 02:46 PM	#17 (permalink)
Confederate Death Leprechaun Location: College Station, TX	That got aggrivating real quick, had to look up a spoiler myself.