MGS 4: Sons of Disappointment - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Church · 05-04-2008, 09:43 PM

I don't personally have a PS3, and I'm not trying to perpetrate any PS3 bashing, just thought this was interesting. I was planning on getting a PS3 for MGS though...

http://kotaku.com/381412/kojima-disa...l-gear-solid-4

Quote:

Kojima Disappointed With Metal Gear Solid 4

Looks like Kojima Jr. isn't the only one disappointed with Metal Gear Solid. The latest issue of the UK's Edge magazine contains an interview with Metal Gear creator Hideo Kojima, who expresses disappointment with the latest game in the series, Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots. It isn't so much the gameplay itself as it is the graphics.

"Game-wise, it's pretty close to the original vision: you sneak into the battlefield and can choose whether to do a stealth game or interfere with the battle more directly. But the graphic, side things like motion-blending and the size of the map, totally was not accomplished to my original vision - to my satisfaction.

Now Kojima is a well-known perfectionist, but it is a bit disturbing to see him voice his dissatisfaction with what is supposed to be the masterpiece of the franchise. So where does he lay the blame for not fully realizing his vision?

"When we first showed the game engine at TGS, the staff were really proud and happy. PS3 was a dream machine, y'know, and we were going to work on this and that - and we had so many ideas. But when we actually started developing the game, we realized there were a lot of restrictions and so it turned out how you see it today. The original vision was to go ten steps further, the reality was just one step, which isn't to say we didn't progress.

So there was certainly progress made, but not enough progress...or more specifically, not enough power for progress. Apparently the team overestimated what the PlayStation 3 was capable of.

I remember saying three years ago that we wanted to create something revolutionary, but in reality we couldn't really do that because of the CPU. We're using the Cell engine to its limit., actually. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the PS3 machine, it's just that we weren't really aware of what the full-spec PS3 offered - we were creating something we couldn't entirely see.

Well there you have it, straight from the man himself. Metal Gear Solid 4 is not revolutionary. Personally I think the man is being a bit hard on himself, but that's what great minds do.

Esoteric · 05-05-2008, 04:38 AM

Heh, I'm pretty sure this game is still going to be fucking amazing.

tcp · 05-05-2008, 07:03 AM

Well, gameplay is more important. Everyone already knows the PS3 is more powerful than the XBOX, so I don't know what more he should have expected.

I can't remember but I thought I read that they had trouble getting all the content onto a single Blu-ray disc. Isn't that kind of ridiculous?

Jinn · 05-05-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phamtc

Everyone already knows the PS3 is more powerful than the XBOX, so I don't know what more he should have expected.

While theoretically true, I've yet to see a game which utilized the PS3 hardware to the max. Show me any cross-platform game which looks better on the PS3 than the XBOX360.

Lasereth · 05-05-2008, 07:56 AM

Typical Hideo Kojima media attracting that he does before the next MGS comes out. It still makes me wonder about the MGS bundle coming out this summer.

LoganSnake · 05-05-2008, 08:45 AM

All geniuses are overly critical of their work. He said the same thing about previous MGS games.

Prophecy · 05-05-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phamtc

I can't remember but I thought I read that they had trouble getting all the content onto a single Blu-ray disc. Isn't that kind of ridiculous?

It's most likely audio. At one point Kojima was talking about everything being uncompressed audio so he could people a better experience. If that's true, encode that and I'm sure you could put the game on a few DVD9s or one single layer Blu Ray disc.

Also, LoganSnake hit on the head. Kojima will never be happy with the finished product, he's a perfectionist. It also sounds like he bit into the PS3 hype, i.e. the system wasn't as strong as promised. (Is any console ever as strong as pre-launch hype suggests?)

blahblah454 · 05-05-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

We're using the Cell engine to its limit., actually

I am sorry, but I am calling total bullshit on this one. In a year or two there are going to be games out that will absolutely trounce MGS graphically.

I have a brother who is a game developer and currently no one really knows how to develop the PS3 to its full potential.

biznatch · 05-05-2008, 07:51 PM

Of course Kojima might think that the PS3 is used to it's full potential. Game programming becomes more efficient on a system as time passes sicne the console is released. As this is the first and supposedly the last MGS game on PS3, they're still finding out exactly how to optimize their shit.
Man I need a ps3. GTA4 is out and I can't play it, and I can't wait to play the REX vs RAY battle in mgs4

LoganSnake · 05-06-2008, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblah454

I am sorry, but I am calling total bullshit on this one. In a year or two there are going to be games out that will absolutely trounce MGS graphically.

Uncharted already does.

Maybe he meant that they're using it to the maximum ability that developers currently can?

Also, check this out.

Pogue Mahone · 05-06-2008, 11:46 AM

Damn you, Kojima!

Now you have me hoping for another remake!

LoganSnake · 05-06-2008, 12:18 PM

Rumors:

Spoiler: You will be able to play through parts of the first game. That's how you get the REX...you go back to Alaska to retrieve it.

Another rumor is that you will be able to play through the events of the first game which are actually Snake's flashbacks.

Redjake · 05-06-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

You will be able to play through parts of the first game. That's how you get the REX...you go back to Alaska to retrieve it.

Another rumor is that you will be able to play through the events of the first game which are actually Snake's flashbacks.

uh spoilers tag??????? WTF??????????

LoganSnake · 05-07-2008, 07:59 AM

How's that a spoiler? I just posted a video of it.

Besides, I just posted rumors. Neither of those two have been confirmed.

guthmund · 05-07-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

Typical Hideo Kojima media attracting that he does before the next MGS comes out. It still makes me wonder about the MGS bundle coming out this summer.

Exactly. Seems I've heard this song before....

Esoteric · 05-08-2008, 05:44 AM

I'd really like to see a MGS remake with MGS4 graphics. That would be sexy.

Church · 05-08-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esoteric

I'd really like to see a MGS remake with MGS4 graphics. That would be sexy.

I think we'll get that around the same time we get FF7 remade lol

Redjake · 05-08-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esoteric

I'd really like to see a MGS remake with MGS4 graphics. That would be sexy.

They tried that before and it ruined the entire game (at least for me, anyway)

Twin Snakes FTL

they would put in Matrix graphics and make Solid Snake as powerful as the incredible hulk and be able to fly around in the air like Goku in Dragonball Z

what a horrible game

Martian · 05-08-2008, 06:53 PM

All of this just makes me want to play MGS again. Maybe I'll pop by the second hand game store tomorrow and see if they have it in.

Re: MGS4, they can basically say whatever they want and I'll still be getting the combo when it comes out. If nothing else I get a solid Blu Ray player.

Lasereth · 05-09-2008, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

Re: MGS4, they can basically say whatever they want and I'll still be getting the combo when it comes out. If nothing else I get a solid Blu Ray player.

I went to Gamestop to reserve the bundle. Whoops, Sony isn't allowing reserves. Oh and it's a limited release, so if you don't get one on launch day, you may not get one period. Gamestop said they will be getting in 6 on launch day for the bundle and may not EVER get in more because the bundle is so limited. Freaking stupid...I've been waiting on this bundle since it was announced and now I probably won't get it.

Esoteric · 05-09-2008, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

I went to Gamestop to reserve the bundle. Whoops, Sony isn't allowing reserves. Oh and it's a limited release, so if you don't get one on launch day, you may not get one period. Gamestop said they will be getting in 6 on launch day for the bundle and may not EVER get in more because the bundle is so limited. Freaking stupid...I've been waiting on this bundle since it was announced and now I probably won't get it.

That's disappointing, because I was looking to get the bundle too. Which version of the PS3 has the Emotion engine, if any? I thought it was the 40GB version, but I can't remember.

LoganSnake · 05-09-2008, 05:37 AM

No, the 40GB version doesn't support backward compatibility at all and 80GB one uses software. It's the discontinued 60GB and 20GB that have EE.

The 80GB has been discontinued as well.

CyCo PL · 05-09-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

While theoretically true, I've yet to see a game which utilized the PS3 hardware to the max. Show me any cross-platform game which looks better on the PS3 than the XBOX360.

Uhh, GTA4?

IGN review: "For those wanting to know which version looks better, the edge goes to the PS3 ... Grand Theft Auto IV is one of the best games we've ever seen ... The only thing you need to know is that you have to play this game. Period."

1UP review: "The PS3 version has the slightest visual edge, plus motion-control support."

Also, Burnout Paradise.

Gamespot: "If you're looking for differences between the two versions, you won't find many. The PlayStation 3 version looks maybe a hair crisper than the 360 version, but that's about the only visual difference to speak of."

Martian · 05-09-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

I went to Gamestop to reserve the bundle. Whoops, Sony isn't allowing reserves. Oh and it's a limited release, so if you don't get one on launch day, you may not get one period. Gamestop said they will be getting in 6 on launch day for the bundle and may not EVER get in more because the bundle is so limited. Freaking stupid...I've been waiting on this bundle since it was announced and now I probably won't get it.

That is very unfortunate. I'll have to see if shopping at the small local place is going to work for or against me here. It might work for me because I know them and they can bend the rules, or against me because they may not get many (any) in.

Given the buzz for MGS4 you'd think Sony would want to cash in on the franchise and use it to get as many consoles into homes as possible. But then again, I suppose they've been making hardware shortages a reliable marketing strategy for a few years now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

No, the 40GB version doesn't support backward compatibility at all and 80GB one uses software. It's the discontinued 60GB and 20GB that have EE.

Does that really matter? Just keep your PS2 if you're desperate to play PSX and PS2 games.

blahblah454 · 05-09-2008, 03:24 PM

Its a convenience to have backwards compatibility. I own a ps2 and backwards compatibility for a ps3 is still a huge selling feature for me, I refuse to buy one with out the capability.

Anyone know what the bundle runs for price wise?

LoganSnake · 05-09-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblah454

Its a convenience to have backwards compatibility. I own a ps2 and backwards compatibility for a ps3 is still a huge selling feature for me, I refuse to buy one with out the capability.

Anyone know what the bundle runs for price wise?

Quote:

The bundle will include MGS4, an 80GB PS3 and a Dual Shock 3 included for an MSRP of $499.99

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/855/855057p1.html

Pogue Mahone · 05-13-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

I went to Gamestop to reserve the bundle. Whoops, Sony isn't allowing reserves. Oh and it's a limited release, so if you don't get one on launch day, you may not get one period. Gamestop said they will be getting in 6 on launch day for the bundle and may not EVER get in more because the bundle is so limited. Freaking stupid...I've been waiting on this bundle since it was announced and now I probably won't get it.

From what I understand, the limited version is actually a gunmetal silver PS-3 with the game. There will be another bundle that won't be as limited.

Oh, and as an aside, I just found this:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cxw91PSTRq8&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cxw91PSTRq8&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

It's probably old hat, but I thought it was cool.

LoganSnake · 05-14-2008, 05:46 AM

There are a bunch of new trailers out as well as the first 10 minutes of the game. Can't post the vids because this board doesn't allow HTML. Check out Kotaku.

http://kotaku.com/389818/new-new-new-mgs4-trailers

05-05-2008, 04:38 AM	#2 (permalink)
Esoteric Tired Location: Florida	Heh, I'm pretty sure this game is still going to be fucking amazing. __________________ From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

05-05-2008, 08:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	All geniuses are overly critical of their work. He said the same thing about previous MGS games. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

05-05-2008, 07:51 PM	#9 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	Of course Kojima might think that the PS3 is used to it's full potential. Game programming becomes more efficient on a system as time passes sicne the console is released. As this is the first and supposedly the last MGS game on PS3, they're still finding out exactly how to optimize their shit. Man I need a ps3. GTA4 is out and I can't play it, and I can't wait to play the REX vs RAY battle in mgs4 __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

05-06-2008, 11:46 AM	#11 (permalink)
Pogue Mahone Crazy Location: Denver, Colorado	Damn you, Kojima! Now you have me hoping for another remake! __________________ I still wave at the dots on the shore And I still beat my head against the door I still rage and wage my little war I'm a shade and easy to ignore

05-06-2008, 12:18 PM	#12 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	Rumors: Spoiler: You will be able to play through parts of the first game. That's how you get the REX...you go back to Alaska to retrieve it. Another rumor is that you will be able to play through the events of the first game which are actually Snake's flashbacks. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques Last edited by LoganSnake; 05-07-2008 at 08:28 AM..

05-05-2008, 07:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
tcp Crazy	Well, gameplay is more important. Everyone already knows the PS3 is more powerful than the XBOX, so I don't know what more he should have expected. I can't remember but I thought I read that they had trouble getting all the content onto a single Blu-ray disc. Isn't that kind of ridiculous?

05-05-2008, 07:56 AM	#5 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Typical Hideo Kojima media attracting that he does before the next MGS comes out. It still makes me wonder about the MGS bundle coming out this summer.

05-07-2008, 07:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	How's that a spoiler? I just posted a video of it. Besides, I just posted rumors. Neither of those two have been confirmed. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

05-08-2008, 05:44 AM	#16 (permalink)
Esoteric Tired Location: Florida	I'd really like to see a MGS remake with MGS4 graphics. That would be sexy. __________________ From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

05-08-2008, 06:53 PM	#19 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	All of this just makes me want to play MGS again. Maybe I'll pop by the second hand game store tomorrow and see if they have it in. Re: MGS4, they can basically say whatever they want and I'll still be getting the combo when it comes out. If nothing else I get a solid Blu Ray player. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

05-09-2008, 05:37 AM	#22 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	No, the 40GB version doesn't support backward compatibility at all and 80GB one uses software. It's the discontinued 60GB and 20GB that have EE. The 80GB has been discontinued as well. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

05-09-2008, 03:24 PM	#25 (permalink)
blahblah454 Let's put a smile on that face Location: On the road...	Its a convenience to have backwards compatibility. I own a ps2 and backwards compatibility for a ps3 is still a huge selling feature for me, I refuse to buy one with out the capability. Anyone know what the bundle runs for price wise?

05-14-2008, 05:46 AM	#28 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	There are a bunch of new trailers out as well as the first 10 minutes of the game. Can't post the vids because this board doesn't allow HTML. Check out Kotaku. http://kotaku.com/389818/new-new-new-mgs4-trailers __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques