Punk.of.Ages

So, 4th edition Dungeons & Dragons is on its way in. It may already be here. I'm not quite sure. I haven't looked a whole lot into it yet, but this thread isn't necessarily just about 4th edition. It's about transferring to a new system.

I've always played 3rd edition. It had just come out when I started playing. I've invested a lot of money and time into 3rd edition material. I know the ins and outs of every book I've read. I DM a lot so that's important.

I play Vampire: The Masquerade sometimes also. They set up a new system and I didn't like it, so I never transferred to it. What I've read about 4th edition I do like though.

So, I guess my question is: What's the easiest way to go about transferring. Maybe there's some older players out there who transferred from earlier editions to third who can give me some advice.

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Baraka_Guru

About 4th edition from Wikipedia:

It sounds sensible.

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Martian

All of my D&D experience comes from playing 2nd edition as a teenager, many moons ago now. I haven't played it since then, so I don't really know anything about transferring or 3rd edition.

Thanks for making me feel old.

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m0rpheus

My thoughts on 4th edition? WotC making "cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching" sounds.

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Shauk

most hobbies cost money. *shrug*

If you cater to a hobby of the masses, you sit to earn the money from it.

Charlatan

I knew a select few back when I started playing that insisted on playing D&D rules while we were all into AD&D rules (ver. 2).

I am sure there will a pile of older types that will want to stick with version 3 because that's what they know. Some of the newer players will make the shift because they aren't as invested in the current system.

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Baraka_Guru

At least it isn't as bad a computer obsolescence.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

spindles

WotC also have a page on their website that has a whole bunch of obsolete stuff on it - this will (probably) have 3rd edition files added to it eventually - so you could stay put if you wanted to:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads

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m0rpheus

It's more the fact that 3.5 is only five years old. Third edition itself is only eight. 4th ed. seems like WotC trying to suck more money out of their fans pockets because they know they can.

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Punk.of.Ages

I pretty much agree with you here.

3.5 was pretty much meant to fix the things they really, really fucked up in 3. So, I don't really consider it to be its own entity.

3 isn't that old though, and with the addition of 3.5 I really don't see any reason a new edition needs to be presented.

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"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

asaris

People have done the math, and the time difference between 3rd and 4th is actually better than most other RPGs (compare, e.g., White Wolf's Vampire game). Even the lag between 3.5 and 4 is comparable.

My advice would be to find a group that's playing fourth, and try it out before you buy the books. It's a bit different than 3.5, as you'd expect. Some people claim it doesn't feel like DnD; I think it does. But ymmv.

I had the opportunity to play 4th at DDXP a few weeks ago, so if you have any particular questions, feel free to ask. In addition, enworld.org has compiled much of what we know about the new edition.

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m0rpheus

3 editions in 8 years is excessive.
Some comparable games
D&D - 2000 (3rd Edition), 2003 (v.3.5), 2008 (4th Edition) - 8 years three editions, and yes 3.5 is an edition.
Werewolf - 1994 (2nd edition), 2000 (Revised edition), 2004 (Forsaken system) - 10 years between three editions
Vampire - 1992 (2nd edition), 1998 (Revised edition), 2004 (Requiem system) - 12 years between three editions
Shadowrun - 1992 (2nd edition), 1998 (3rd edition), 2005 (4th edition) - 13 years between three editions
Rifts - 1990 (Main book), 2005 (Ultimate edition) - 15 years between editions
I include the White Wolf ones only because they are still a "Vampire" and "Werewolf" game. The reality is they are complete different games though from previous editions. Those are all some big names in the RPG world and the only one it comes close to is Werewolf, so how is it better than most RPGs? If 3.5 didn't exist I would agree with you that it is about time or if they announced 4.0 in two or three years time it would be fine and inline with the industry. But 3.5 does exist, and it's only five years later for 4.0.

The only way that D&D is "better" is if you go back to the TSR days.

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"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Punk.of.Ages

Thanks for the link asaris. That page has a lot of good info on it.

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"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

Jenna

I haven't even upgraded to 3.5. I'm still on 3. It'll take awhile for me to get to 4th edition.

Gabbyness

I'm very interested in the increased support for internet gaming.

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777

I got some preview material that I've been reading (6 sample PCs, 14 pages of monsters, and an adventure) the last few days, and 4e looks promising. Everyone has abilities that can be used at-will, once per encounter, or once per day. From the wizards with his Sleep Spell, to the Ranger that can fire two arrows at two different targets for tons of damage, to the Kobold Wyrmpriest with Fire Breath. Skills are a lot easier to manage (there's only 16 of them now). Rather than having to remember your AC when suprised, when a ghost attaks, when stepping on caltrops, or when blind, you either grant you opponent a +2 to hit you, or they attack your Reflex defence (more on Defences later).

If anyone is interested, PM me and I can email you the pdfs.

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Punk.of.Ages

So, I figured I'd update on this thread now that I've played 4th Edition...

I actually did completely transfer to 4th. Not because I like it better, though. It was because all of my 3rd Edition shit got stolen. I actually do prefer 3rd still, but transferring editions wasn't as hard as finding all the 3rd shit again.

Anyway, there are things I really like about 4th and things I really don't like. Most of the things I don't like, though, don't have much to do with the game mechanics, but more so with WotC milking every fucking dime it's worth. At least four fucking Players' Handbooks?! That's shit. On that subject, I don't like the idea of something like 32 classes when all is said and done either. Then there's the shortened Monster Manual just so they can put out Monster Manual 2 a year later...

You know, corporate bullshit like that.

As far as game play, though, they did make everything much simpler, but, naturally, this means less customization options, which is the main reason I still prefer 3rd. I really do like the simplification of abilities with the whole at-will, encounter, daily, and utility power system.

Overall, 4th now has its place for me, but I really want my old 3rd Edition back.

Anybody else been playing 4th?

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

SSJTWIZTA

maybe ive just watch SLC Punk one too many times, but...


...do all the punks in Utah dig D&D?

oh, and did that huge ass file on D&D i sent yah ever come in handy?

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Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
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Punk.of.Ages

Actually, quite a few of us do...

That file has come in handy a few times.

Thanks, man.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

Baraka_Guru

One of my group members sprung the 4th edition books on me and said, "Hey, just take a look."

They're sitting on my desk. I leafed though some of the books, but haven't had a close look yet. I posed the inevitable question of upgrading to the rest of the group.

Anyone have any play experience with 4th edition yet?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Zeraph

Yeah, I play 3.5, pathfinder, and 4e.

4e is....balanced like a video game and it ends up lending that feel to it. Your group needs to try extra hard to get the same level of immersion and roleplay.

The other thing is there is simply less options. It feels again a bit like a video game in that, 1 ranger isn't going to be much different than another. Whereas in 3.5 or PF I could play the same campaign and character build and come out with a totally different experience.

One other criticism is that the early monster manuals gave monsters too many hps and not enough attack power so combat tended to take longer than 3.5/PF which was one thing they were trying to improve on. They are making headway though with the new MM3.

And finally, the last major criticism is that they are so many damn conditions now! Even right from the get go at level one. In DnD at least you had an easier time of avoiding so much book upkeep if you didn't feel like it.

By conditions (in case you don't know) I mean like slow, stun, penalties to attack, etc. Since everyone and their grandmother now applies conditional modifies in combat to keep track of it all you need to use plastic milk jug rings with different colors or have really really good memory I suppose.
sub paragraph: milk rings to put on the minis. Which is really another criticism, its a lot more neccessary with how all the powers have shapes and such that you use a grid with minis. 3.5/PF its easier to play if you don't want to use a grid with minis.

PS one thing I LOVE/hate (more love) about 4e though is the online character builder. And usually only like one member needs to pay the small monthly fee (like $5?) and you can share the account.